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hist_text-digest      Thursday, February 7 2002      Volume 01 : Number 948



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
-áááááá MtMan-List: Northwest Journal--new & improved!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
-áááááá MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
-áááááá MtMan-List: Trade Gun for Sale
-áááááá MtMan-List: Laura Jean
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
-áááááá MtMan-List: Message Board
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
-áááááá MtMan-List: WAS Beaver catch
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 22:27:24 -0500
From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch

David,

I'm no expert, but I would append your question by
asking when was the height of the beaver trade WHERE?
Logic being that the farther east and south, the
earlier the demise.  There's folks (not many) right now still
trapping beaver and getting paid (not much) but if I had to
pick a time for peak volume RMFT, I guess I would pick 1815-1825.
After that some areas were probably trapped out, expecially
considering that our modern concept of managing renewable resources
was likely foreign to those trappers.

Tom


David Usner wrote:
>
> I was wondering about some facts.
>
> When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840.
>
> How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?
>
> How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of
> beaver was falling off.
>
> David
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:21:55 -0800
From: JW Stephens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch

The Snake River country was trapped out fairly early, as a matter of
policy. After the Convention of 1818, when Great Britain and the United
States agreed to jointly occupy Oregon, Alexander Ross as the point man
for the Hudson's Bay Company recognized the wave of the future when
Jedediah Smith's party of six trappers (who had taken some 900 plews on
the Green, Bear and Blackfoot rivers between the breakup of rendezvous
and "early autumn") showed up at his door. After showing Smith's party
courtesy for having escorted Pierre Tevanitagon and a small band of
Iroquois trappers who had been plundered by the Shoshones, back to
Flathead Post, Ross found out that Smith was not keen on leaving.  On
the fringes of Blackfoot country, at the onset of winter, Smith and his
party stayed with Ross' brigade. When Ross put his head together with
HBC Governor George Simpson and Chief Factor John McLoughlin, the plan
that was formed to blunt the intrusion of further Americans into this
rich HBC skin farm was to create a "beaver desert" south and east of the
Columbia River. This was started about November of '24 by replacing
Alexander Ross with Peter Skene Ogden. For the winter of '24-'25, Ogden
headed out to trap out the Snake River country with a party of about
sixty trappers, and Jed Smith et. al. in tow.

So you could say that the demise was started in the north and west.

B'st'rd

tom roberts wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I'm no expert, but I would append your question by
> asking when was the height of the beaver trade WHERE?
> Logic being that the farther east and south, the
> earlier the demise.  There's folks (not many) right now still
> trapping beaver and getting paid (not much) but if I had to
> pick a time for peak volume RMFT, I guess I would pick 1815-1825.
> After that some areas were probably trapped out, expecially
> considering that our modern concept of managing renewable resources
> was likely foreign to those trappers.
>
> Tom
>
> David Usner wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering about some facts.
> >
> > When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840.
> >
> > How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?
> >
> > How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of
> > beaver was falling off.
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:27:32 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch

In a message dated 2/5/02 8:16:00 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840.


How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?


How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of

beaver was falling off.>>

The supply was petering out by the mid 1830s.  Osborn Russell in his journal
writes from a spot north of Great Salt Lake in the late 1830s that the
buffalo are gone (from there) and the beaver are all gone.  It is time for
the white man to get out of this country.

A trapper might carry 5-6 - sometimes 8 traps.  He had to not only set and
recover them but also skin and tend them.  Beaver do NOT skin as easily as a
bunny.  Limited to the number of traps and the fact he did not always fill
out and some days got zero - you can do your own cost accounting.
Remembering that beaver trapping was done in the fall and spring only -
trappers roamed the summer to and from rendezvous, and they holed up in w
inter, seeking out a spot with game, shelter (some constructed cabins and
such), wood and - VERY important - feed for their animals.  Often they
bunched up with other trappers at this time - frequently friendly Indians
were part of the camp.

American Fur kept harvesting  past 1850 as did Hudson's Bay.  They did a lot
of business trading with the Indians (as they did from the beginning) rather
than the trapper system of a couple of decades earlier.  The bottom had
fallen out of the beaver market by 1840, any way because of the new fashion
of silk hats.  Much of the fur gathered by (Astor's) American Fur company
were hides of a dozen varieties other than beaver - same with HBCo..

1860s - enterprising young men were going after buffalo hides.  This lasted
for nearly a quarter of a century.  The harvest went mostly for lap robes to
begin, but ironically many of the bufalo hides were tanned into leather that
was then made into belts that transfered water power to the overhead shafts
and then to the machines in the early part of the age of the industrial
revolution.  An example would be Russell's knife factory on the Green River
of Mass..

Hope this helps

Sincerly
Richard James

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:04:07 -0500
From: David Usner <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch

I'm most interested in trapping in Colorado and surrounding area. Is it
possible to calculate the approx catch per week or month during 1924-1940.
Would it be safe to say that a single trapper could trap 20 beaver a month?
40 beaver a month? Could two or three trappers catch 100 beaver a month?

Was the demise a result of premeditated calculation on the part of HBC or
was it a result of the rise in demand and the rise in the number of men
willing and able to venture into the territory.

I know that Kit Carson would leave his home in Taos and trap up north and
west of there. I think he trapped the Snake River as well. He must have
gotten into the trade just at the beginning of the end. Things seemed to be
changing quickly in the part of the country.

Dave

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of JW Stephens
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:22 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch


The Snake River country was trapped out fairly early, as a matter of
policy. After the Convention of 1818, when Great Britain and the United
States agreed to jointly occupy Oregon, Alexander Ross as the point man
for the Hudson's Bay Company recognized the wave of the future when
Jedediah Smith's party of six trappers (who had taken some 900 plews on
the Green, Bear and Blackfoot rivers between the breakup of rendezvous
and "early autumn") showed up at his door. After showing Smith's party
courtesy for having escorted Pierre Tevanitagon and a small band of
Iroquois trappers who had been plundered by the Shoshones, back to
Flathead Post, Ross found out that Smith was not keen on leaving.  On
the fringes of Blackfoot country, at the onset of winter, Smith and his
party stayed with Ross' brigade. When Ross put his head together with
HBC Governor George Simpson and Chief Factor John McLoughlin, the plan
that was formed to blunt the intrusion of further Americans into this
rich HBC skin farm was to create a "beaver desert" south and east of the
Columbia River. This was started about November of '24 by replacing
Alexander Ross with Peter Skene Ogden. For the winter of '24-'25, Ogden
headed out to trap out the Snake River country with a party of about
sixty trappers, and Jed Smith et. al. in tow.

So you could say that the demise was started in the north and west.

B'st'rd

tom roberts wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I'm no expert, but I would append your question by
> asking when was the height of the beaver trade WHERE?
> Logic being that the farther east and south, the
> earlier the demise.  There's folks (not many) right now still
> trapping beaver and getting paid (not much) but if I had to
> pick a time for peak volume RMFT, I guess I would pick 1815-1825.
> After that some areas were probably trapped out, expecially
> considering that our modern concept of managing renewable resources
> was likely foreign to those trappers.
>
> Tom
>
> David Usner wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering about some facts.
> >
> > When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about
1830-1840.
> >
> > How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?
> >
> > How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply
of
> > beaver was falling off.
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:14:20 -0500
From: David Usner <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch

Richard,

That's great information. Thanks. You guys are painting an interesting
picture. I would thinking that a single trapper could set 6 traps a day and
maybe come up with an average of 3 beaver a day. That would mean the yield
during the spring and fall could be as much as 90 pelts a month from a
single trapper. Does that sound possible?

Dave


- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:28 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch



In a message dated 2/5/02 8:16:00 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about
1830-1840.


How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?


How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of

beaver was falling off.>>

The supply was petering out by the mid 1830s.  Osborn Russell in his journal
writes from a spot north of Great Salt Lake in the late 1830s that the
buffalo are gone (from there) and the beaver are all gone.  It is time for
the white man to get out of this country.

A trapper might carry 5-6 - sometimes 8 traps.  He had to not only set and
recover them but also skin and tend them.  Beaver do NOT skin as easily as a
bunny.  Limited to the number of traps and the fact he did not always fill
out and some days got zero - you can do your own cost accounting.
Remembering that beaver trapping was done in the fall and spring only -
trappers roamed the summer to and from rendezvous, and they holed up in w
inter, seeking out a spot with game, shelter (some constructed cabins and
such), wood and - VERY important - feed for their animals.  Often they
bunched up with other trappers at this time - frequently friendly Indians
were part of the camp.

American Fur kept harvesting  past 1850 as did Hudson's Bay.  They did a lot
of business trading with the Indians (as they did from the beginning) rather
than the trapper system of a couple of decades earlier.  The bottom had
fallen out of the beaver market by 1840, any way because of the new fashion
of silk hats.  Much of the fur gathered by (Astor's) American Fur company
were hides of a dozen varieties other than beaver - same with HBCo..

1860s - enterprising young men were going after buffalo hides.  This lasted
for nearly a quarter of a century.  The harvest went mostly for lap robes to
begin, but ironically many of the bufalo hides were tanned into leather that
was then made into belts that transfered water power to the overhead shafts
and then to the machines in the early part of the age of the industrial
revolution.  An example would be Russell's knife factory on the Green River
of Mass..

Hope this helps

Sincerly
Richard James

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:25:16 -0700
From: "Angela Gottfred" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Northwest Journal--new & improved!

We've just concluded extensive renovations to the Northwest Journal
website www.northwestjournal.ca, adding 42 (yes, forty-two) articles
about the Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821. Most of these articles were
originally published in the paper version of Northwest Journal between
1992 and 1998, however new articles are being added.

We are also launching a new mailing list, h-voyageur, focusing on the
fur trade of the voyageur era (c. 1770-1830). To subscribe to the new
list, go to www.groups.yahoo.com/group/h-voyageur/join and follow the
instructions. Or you can join by sending a blank e-mail to
[e-mail]. (We're just beginning a
chapter-by-chapter discussion of the history behind the novel Broken
Blade, by William Durbin.)

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
Editor, Northwest Journal (online edition)




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:26:14 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch

any of you guys know haw many beaver pelts will go into a bundle of
pelts---that was the way the beaver skins  was transported and packed
out---put in a press and bundeled---in a lot of references there say that
a average season would give you from 10 to 20 bundels---dont know if that
is each man or for the party but if you estimate how many pelts are in a
bundel you will get an idea of how many they cought---6 traps if you ran
them twice a day will get you a lot more beaver than you realize---in a
30 plus day period---a single dam or colony can easily have 50 plus
beavers in it and the beaver have 3 to 5 kits a year so it gets
overstocked quite easily in a few years look at the numbers---might be
suprizeing kina like a penny a day and double it ever day for 30 days---

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:15:27 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch

dick---
I beaver and muskrat trapping back in the mid  50's and i trapped using
about 50 plus traps only made 5 or 10 beaver sets around 4 fairly large
lakes and the streams that fed them---I ran my traps in the morning and
the afternoon and a good productive set usually had something in it in
the morning and the afternoon---I used drownding sets in a lot of cases
and in one big beaver colony/lake  I only had 5 traps set and in the 30
days of trapping season I got over 60 beaver out of that one area dont
believe i put a dint in the beavers there---in about the 70's they the
state trapper tried poison and that killed most of them off---as long as
the sets had castorium or bait on them i seldom did not have a beaver or
a muskrat in them---and there was only 5 sets on that area---I ran a lot
of mink traps and fox traps also those were not as productive as the
water sets in the area i lived---I have pictures of my catch that year
and it wasnt too bad---got over 100 mink---60 plus foxes plus the beaver
and the muskrat---had over 350 muskrat---i spent a lot of time skinning
and streaching---had a friend with a hog farm nearby and he took all the
carcuses for the hogs that relly helped---that one year was probably my
most productive year---but i made more money trapping preditors the next
few years but had to buy different and bigger trapps for that---the
beaver traps worked well on bobcat and ky-dogs---which are crosses---
there was a $25 bounty on dogs and bobcat at that time paid by the
state--only ran the preditor traps once a day and it was a hell of a lot
of walking and travel involved---they still tell stories of me having 15
to 20 preditors hanging on the fence waiting for the state rep to mark
and pay the bounty he came to the house about once a week--- the carcus
had to be whole to collect and not skinned---I skinned them after i
collected from him

YMHOS

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:45:02 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch

Great story Hawk,loved reading it I almost fell out my chair laughing so hard
then you talked about the fance.

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
[e-mail]

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 18:14:27 -0800
From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

Gentleman(and those with beaver fever,

    Called my brother Eric last night to clue me in on beaver trapping.
Wel, I herd him say tha breedin seesun iz near, and dose castor critters
wood be peeping thar head bove tha ice soon, Ha, Ha! I mean I knew mountain
men had their mind on beaver most of the time. So here goes Eric's questions
and comments.

    First, he said one year he caught 17 beaver and 2 non-target
animals(racoons) in 3 days.  He even pointed out to me he used a set that an
Indian trapper had taught him; that he beleives goes back to the French .
The Indian having the lineage of the French, he figured it was an old
trapping technique.

    Anyway, Eric went on about this website that some 'rendezvouer'
evidently put into being.  The document pointed out the weight of the trap
drowned the beaver, he,he,he, ha, ha.  Now, Eric says that somebody really
pulled a fast one on that novice/tenderfoot.  He said when he was learning,
he had an old castor drag concrete blocks and tractor parts back to the bank
and wring out/pull out of the jaws.  Eric said these weights on his drown
wire were 25-30 lbs in his infancy trapping days. Of course, Eric learned to
use the heaviest masonry blocks or sandbags full of dirt, rocks, and sand;
when using the drown wire.  He caught a 83 pounder one year; and claims
there are 100 lb. chiseltooths out there in colonies beyond the roads. Eric
said if the weight of the trap drowned an adult(momma or dad), it had to be
at least 45 lbs. Imagine one mule weighted down by only 3-4 heavy traps!
    He went on to say spring trapping was the easiest, as if they are not
trapwise he could sometimes trap the entire colony out in 2-3 days.  After 3
days, he said if you caught any, you seldom caught another unless in the
blind, in their runs.

    Now, Eric would like to know how many of you have honestly caught beaver
using TANGLESTAKES or a DROWNING(?not sure if I understand this
correctly???)POLE?

   He also asked how trappers of yesterday caught beaver in silt/soft mud by
using a pole?  The type found in marsh beaver ponds that pull one's waders
off like quck-mud.

   And what did they do on bedrock bottom streams and gravel bed streams to
anchor their trap?  Drive a stake???

See, some women take good notes,

Sue Raven

P.S. I think I smell a trap being set for me, he,he,he,he,. . . he.



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 21:36:55 -0700
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Trade Gun for Sale

Hello the Camp,

Shawn Webster sent me the message below.  He's got a trade gun for sale, it
sounds like a dandy.  If he gunsmiths like he quills, it will be some!  Give
him a hollar.

Allen

X-From_: [e-mail]  Tue Feb  5 13:05:09 2002
Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:09:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawn Webster <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: I need some help!
To: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
X-postini-filters:     (S:0.0241515 )



Do you know of anyone that is looking for a nice Indian trade
rifle? I just finished one for myself and I really
need to sell it. It's a rifled 62 caliber, 35"barreled
flintlock with premium curly maple stock.  I hand
forged all of the parts myself including a nice iron
patch box.  I'm only asking $900 for it.  If you could
spread the word I would be greatful.  Thanks!

Shawn


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:39:07 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Jean

I talked to Laura Jean for a few moments tonight and to her husband for a
while longer.  Laura is having a tough time right now even though her latest
MRI shows the tumor to be smaller than before.  Laura and her family need
your prayers. She really enjoys getting notes, etc from her "mountain
friends" so if you wish to send something you can use this address:
Laura Rugel Glise
3841 Prestwick Lane SE
Olympia, WA  98501
Once again please don't call.
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 21:52:58 -0700
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

Hello Sue and others interested in trapping,

Not sure where your brother is catching beaver, but out here in the Rocky
Mountains, the bottoms generally aren't that gooey and will hold a stake.
I've been trapping and catching beaver for several years, and have only used
the trap to drown them, primitive style.

Trick is to set the stake so the beaver can't get back to the bank.  Works
good, and is fairly well described by a number of the period writers.

Allen


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 07:38:57 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

I hate to disagree, but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its
weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot
of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth.

                                                             TrapRJoe

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:34:39 -0500
From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Message Board

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1AFC3.0BC49280
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I set up a message board for anyones use.. If you are interested.

http://pub59.ezboard.com/bwoodsrunnersandfreinds

D


Visit one or all these sites, find out about the [AMM]  (American =
Mountain Men's) "Great Buffalo Raffle".
=20

AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": =
http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html
Double Edge forge  http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
Historical Research: http://conner110.tripod.com/
Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
=20
see the AMM site for more supporters of this event.


- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1AFC3.0BC49280
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I set up a message board for anyones =
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are interested.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Visit one or all these sites, find out =
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AMM site for more supporters of this =
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:52:25 -0700
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

TrapRJoe,

Heck, it's ok to disagree.  I'm sure the 65 pound beaver that drowned on the
Bridger #5 disagreed as well.  And lots of his 45-50 brothers and sisters.

It worked in the old days, it works now.

Allen

At 07:38 AM 2/7/2002 EST, you wrote:
>I hate to disagree, but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its
>weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot
>of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth.
>
>                                                             TrapRJoe
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>


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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:08:24 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: WAS Beaver catch

In a message dated 2/6/02 1:01:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I got over 60 beaver out of that one area dont
 believe i put a dint in the beavers there-- >>
If you are good, when you die you go to beaver streams and ponds like that!
<VBG>
And the beaver skin easy as rabbits with no fleshing required.

I am curious about your method of fleshing.  What was it, if I may ask?
Fleshing beaver is about as much fun as hitting your toe with a hammer...but
a neccessary task.

- -C.Kent

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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:14:49 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

In a message dated 2/7/02 7:39:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its
 weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot
 of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth. >>
I would have to disagree with this.  Only way a trap will drown a beaver is
if it on a sliding drowning lock of some type that prevents the beaver from
surfacing after it s initial reflexive dive.  Beaver are pretty danged
buoyant.  a trap is nothing for them to haul around.  TraprJon, if you are
out there what are your thoughts on the issue?

- -C.Kent

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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:17:17 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

In a message dated 2/7/02 11:49:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I'm sure the 65 pound beaver that drowned on the
 Bridger #5 disagreed as well.  >>
As someone who is impartial and does not mind arbitrating I have a grand
solution.

All of you who claim to have used a trap to drown a beaver with its own
weight should post me those traps post haste (season is nearly nigh!!) so
that I can conduct an objective and impartial study of your techniques on the
streams around here!!!  Three traps from each trapper should do fine
(Bridger, BMI and even DUKE should do fine) <VBG>

- -C.Kent

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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:19:36 -0500
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

Ho the List,
    As a veteran trapper, State Certified Trapper Education Instructor, and
professional nuisance trapper, I fully agree with C. Kent, a trap alone does
not drown a beaver.  I have witnessed a 55# beaver swim for a time with
40#'s of weight attached to a #5 Bridger double long spring trap!!!  The
best way to drown a beaver with a foot hold trap is to use a slide wire
(preferably staked down solid) and drowning lock.  The next best method is
to use a properly placed tangle stick so the beaver swims around it and the
trap steak and can't get back to land, tires and drowns.
    If we want to be technical, beavers don't drown.  They form a mucus plug
in their throats so water can't pass through and they asphyxiate.  As the
need to get air gets critical, the beaver experiences a moment of frantic
increased activity in trying to reach the surface to breath (with a human
this would be panic), then calms down reducing activity to a minimum before
asphyxiation (with a human this is a state of euphoria caused by chemicals
in the brain being released due to lack of oxygen), then death.  This fact
is not just my opinion, but the result of scientific studies done on
specific animals including beaver for the purpose of determining the amount
of time it takes a given critter to die in a drowning set and to document
that the method is humane.  That's how my stick floats.
Sincerely,
John Enos
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]
"It's God's Responsibility to Forgive Bin Laden,
It's Our Responsibility To Arrange The Meeting!!!"

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!


> In a message dated 2/7/02 7:39:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail]
> writes:
>
> << but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its
>  weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a
lot
>  of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth. >>
> I would have to disagree with this.  Only way a trap will drown a beaver
is
> if it on a sliding drowning lock of some type that prevents the beaver
from
> surfacing after it s initial reflexive dive.  Beaver are pretty danged
> buoyant.  a trap is nothing for them to haul around.  TraprJon, if you are
> out there what are your thoughts on the issue?
>
> -C.Kent
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:54:49 -0700
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

    We always used conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and
they sink like a rock. They work best on slide sets and if water is low,
opennings to the den. We have caught beaver on leg hold traps, but always
tag teamed them (used two at one set). Since the line was run in the morning,
you never know how much struggle they put up before going under. My dad
always said the natural instincts of a beaver when in trouble was to go deep.
If so, that helps when you are trying to drown them. Some animals will chew
off their legs to get out of the trap, but hadn't seen a beaver do it.
                                    mike.

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 2/7/02 11:49:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I'm sure the 65 pound beaver that drowned on the
>  Bridger #5 disagreed as well.  >>
> As someone who is impartial and does not mind arbitrating I have a grand
> solution.
>
> All of you who claim to have used a trap to drown a beaver with its own
> weight should post me those traps post haste (season is nearly nigh!!) so
> that I can conduct an objective and impartial study of your techniques on the
> streams around here!!!  Three traps from each trapper should do fine
> (Bridger, BMI and even DUKE should do fine) <VBG>
>
> -C.Kent
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:18:52 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!

In a message dated 2/7/02 2:57:22 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< We always used conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and
they sink like a rock >>

I've done my best catching beavers wid snares....  We'd chop a hole through
the ice kinda close to the lodge, and put down a stick of willow or birch,
then put in 4 snares right at the bottom edge of the ice. As the beaver would
swim around gnawing at the fresh stick, they'd git caught and drown. Could
trap all winter if you kept the hole covered with pine boughs and snow...

Ymos,
Magpie

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