<DIV align=left><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">Now I've got to cross wires with both of you great men: Ned Eddins and </FONT></PRE></DIV>
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<DIV align=left><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">J.W. Stephens. In that </FONT><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">Ned has got it right for the most part. And J.W.'s </FONT></PRE></DIV>
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<DIV align=left><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">reference is correct. </FONT><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">The overall problem however is the ethnocentricism </FONT></PRE></DIV>
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<DIV align=left><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">of the author; a </FONT><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">white man. Frequently other cultures have throughout history </FONT></PRE></DIV>
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<DIV align=left><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">defended </FONT><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">their own way of living, while disrespecting the new and veiwed</FONT></PRE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>When alien peoples meet, the saying goes, first they fight and then
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>they
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>fornicate. The trappers and Indians did both, as mood and circumstance
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>might dictate. The opportunity for some great sex was probably one of
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>the primary lures of the mountains for the whites, and the squaws seem
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>to have relished it with the trapper, in or out of marriage, avidly
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>enough to fulfill his wildest fantasies.
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>The status of women in Indian tribes was low. The were property and
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>treated as such. They were saddled with all the domestic work, because
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>a brave's honor would not allow him to touch it. They were made beasts of
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>burden and traded like horses. Like many "primitive" peoples, Indians
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>made women the objects of distrust, hostility, and taboos. Their lives
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>were so miserable that some Sioux women, for instance, would kill
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>newborn girl children as an act of mercy; or they hanged themselves to
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>escape the degradation of femininity. So the women certainly could
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>expect no worse from the white man than they could get at home.</PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">As the plain's tribes generaly were matriarchal when they had lived in the east. Only when </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">they encountered the horse did they shift to a patriarchal structure. Where back east the </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">'calf pipe' story was interpreted to mean since a woman gave and taught the pipe it should </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">be women in command. Upon the shift from an agricultural economy to a zoological economy</FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">with the horse as it's main instrument, the myth was reinterpreted. Since men now supplied </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">the bulk of the resources, and two men were the gender visited by the calf pipe woman, the </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">myth made a 180 circle. The males then ruled, yet partial matriarchy still had a strong hold. </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">The camp was a woman's, while the men had the earth; and neither could prevail without the</FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"> other. </FONT>
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<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>Compared to white attitudes toward sex, Indians were utterly
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>uninhibited. They suffered from no embarrassment, shame, or secretiveness about it.
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>With rare exceptions, they had no concept of chastity, in the sense of
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>abstinence before marriage. Teenage girls and boys alike were expected
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>to take their pleasure where they could find it. (Adultery was a
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>somewhat different matter.) Adults coupled freely in front of children
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>or anyone else. One prominent chief was often seen walking about his
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>village naked, displaying an erection.</PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">The Crow were notorius for being the most adulterous of the plains and </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">mountain nations. But most of the plains tribe's husbands would and could cut a woman's </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">throat or nose for adultery. Little girls wore rawhide girdles and heard </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">stories about tipi creepers(old degenerate men) whom would sneak in to </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">copulate with the young girls. And as Ned said, the Sun Dance pole could </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">only be cut by a virgin. Thus most of the adulterous affairs and pre-marital</FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">unions were most likely with the Crow women or those with a low village </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">reputation. </FONT></PRE><PRE> Public ceremonies in which men
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>and women copulated with anyone other than their own husbands or wives
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>were common among the plains tribes. And the American Indian was
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>completely innocent of the notion that something he enjoyed sexually
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>might be "wrong." "Wrong" would have been an incomprehensible concept
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>to
<DIV></DIV><DIV></DIV>them in that context.</PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">J. W., I have to disagree as many authors of Blackfeet culture and Sioux, </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">talk of </FONT><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">a man caught in adultery and his punishment. The double standard </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">evidently existed in plains culture just like in our society's past, </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">as the man's punishment was less severe. A husband could demand </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">everything the man owned even his clothes he was wearing. If he</FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive"> protested he could be killed by the angry husband and it seen as noboby's </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">business. Contrasted </FONT><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">to the wife, whom lost her life or nose.
</FONT></PRE><PRE>They were just as uninhibited in other matters where white culture
invokes strong taboos. Homosexuals, called berdashes, populated every
tribe and drew no censure; they were thought to be following visions
given them in childhood; many were even warriors. Sex with an animal
was perfectly permissible, too. So was sex with a recently killed
enemy, usually as a final humiliation. <N.B. B'st'rd: Other readings have
this, and the coupling with other than spouses, purposed to tap the
"medicine" of the other party.>
<FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive"></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">As I understand, the berdash, were for the most part a cast among </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">the Osage. Of males whom did not have the genetic qualities to pass </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">into the population. Rather than practice infanticide they allowed </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">a class of craftsmen whom were not allowed to marry nor breed. Yet as </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">you have pointed out, homosexual males were seen as possessing spirit </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">qualities. Probably, since they were in touch with both the male and </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">female traits of their being. And the sodomy you mentioned, most likely</FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">happened with prisoners and the dead. In "Hantha Yo"(not sure of spelling) the author </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">mentions this form of torture. Why else at the Big Horn did so many </FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">officers shoot each other when they knew their fate if captured</FONT>?</PRE>
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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:03:33 -0800
From: "De Santis, Nick" <nick.de.santis@intel.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Ethnocentric bias and tribal sexualty
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I had me an ethnocentricism oncet. It hurt bad. :)
Sorry, I could not help myself!
I truly do appreciate the discussion. I am learning a lot.
Travler
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From: SUE RAVEN [mailto:blond40ddqhearts@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:03 PM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Ethnocentric bias and tribal sexualty
