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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #936
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Wednesday, January 23 2002 Volume 01 : Number 936
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mrs. Ormand
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Isn't that PRECIOUS?
-áááááá MtMan-List: Unsubscribe
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
-áááááá MtMan-List: Horses and Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Isn't that PRECIOUS?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Isn't that PRECIOUS?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:40:24 -0700
From: "Ned Eddins" <neddins@silverstar.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mrs. Ormand
Mrs. Ormand,
You are absolutely right, and for my part, I am sorry. Many on the list
e-mailed me expressing regrets for the conduct of others on the list, so the
posts went both ways...anyway none of this serves any purpose, we are all
here because we share a common interest and to learn from each other.
Hardtack, I hope your post was a "tongue in cheek" remark. I admit to
getting older and grumpier, but hopefully, not Alzheimer's...usually,
everyone knows exactly where I stand on something.
For the people that emailed me directly, let me say that there were good
points on each side, but they got lost in the replies. There is no doubt
that the North West and, after 1821, the Hudson's Bay Brigades traveled at
least five out of seven days or even more. One purpose being to create a
buffer zone between the Americans and the Oregon Country. The Brigades that
carried out George Simpson's "scorched earth policy" concentrated on the
beaver rich areas primarily the high mountain valleys, for example, Ogden's
Hole (Huntsville, Utah). In 1825, Peter Skene Ogden spent six days there
with a total of 131 people (~ 60 trappers), 268 horses, and 352 traps. He
moved camp while there, but it was because they run out of horse pasture
near the camp. The last Hudson's Bay Brigade in this area, Idaho - Wyoming,
was I believe 1828. The major reason that the Hudson's Bay quit the brigade
system was that they could no longer travel from Fort Vancouver, Washington,
and trap enough beaver to make it feasible. After building Fort Boise (1835)
and acquiring, Fort Hall (1837) , the Hudson's Bay people were more traders
than trappers.
Once the major valley floors were trapped out, the next places were the
streams and rivers coming out of the canyons, and this leads to my argument
that mountain men probably walked as much as they rode...once they reached
the trapping areas. Crazy Cyot and others will agree that a canyon trail
does not always follow the streambed. Downed timber, willows, bogs, and
beaver dams makes horse travel up a good portion of the canyon floor
impossible, and sometimes the entire canyon. Now, picture what it was like
before most of the beaver were trapped out. And remember, in those days
there were basically no trails.
My scenario is that in general they camped in an area off the main stream
where it was safer, and where there was good grass and water for their
horses if they had them. By walking, you can get over, or around, downed
timber, through the willows, and across bogs that are impossible to do
riding a horse. Once the area close to camp was trapped out, which could
take days or weeks, they probably moved camp upstream and started over. From
the mouth of the canyon to the head of North Horse Creek is roughly sixteen
miles by trail. It would take a small party of trappers most of the summer
to trap it and the small tributaries coming into it with maybe three or four
camp moves. In case some of you are not familiar with North Horse Creek, the
rendezvous of 1833, 1835, 1836, 1837, 1839, and 1840 were held on the lower
part of it.
To me, there is a vast difference between the Mountain Men of 1810 to 1830
and those that came after 1830, when most of the journals were
written...these journals are more about their travels than how they actually
trapped. One reason for this difference was the areas near the rendezvous
sites had been trapped out, and in order to reach new prime beaver country,
i.e the Three Forks in Montana, the trappers had to cover greater distances.
There is no doubt that it required horses to get them there. After they were
in the new area, they had the same problems trapping the canyons as I have
already pointed out.
I still maintain, the earliest trappers in these mountains spent more time
walking than they did riding. Even if they started out with horses, which
most did, Indians usually stole them. As many of you stated, if Indians
stole them that means they had horses (logic 101)...not after they didn't,
Indians did.
YMOS
Ned
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:03:35 -0700
From: Charlie P Webb <cwebbbpdr@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
I hesitate to respond to this question as the last time I
did so I was chewed up and spit out.
But here goes anyway: Liver of sulphur sold at
jewelry supply stores works well. Stained glass
shops have several patinas they sell that work with
lead, pewter and God forbid, brass!.
Old Coyote
On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:43:43 +0000 "darlene secondine"
<dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> writes:
> Howdy fellas,
> Anybody here no how to gray down pewter or antique it artificially?
> Man, is it bright, mostly tin mix.
> Michael Pierce, where are ya when I need ya?
> Don Secondine
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
> http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:09:22 +0000
From: "darlene secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
Thank ye kindly Charlie,
I'd of never thought about stained glass shops. Liver of sulphur. I used to
play with that on copper when I was a pup. I'll try it. Yep, let's not
mention brass. (LOL)
Thanks again,
Don
>From: Charlie P Webb <cwebbbpdr@juno.com>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
>Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:03:35 -0700
>
>I hesitate to respond to this question as the last time I
>did so I was chewed up and spit out.
>But here goes anyway: Liver of sulphur sold at
>jewelry supply stores works well. Stained glass
>shops have several patinas they sell that work with
>lead, pewter and God forbid, brass!.
>Old Coyote
>
>On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:43:43 +0000 "darlene secondine"
><dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> writes:
> > Howdy fellas,
> > Anybody here no how to gray down pewter or antique it artificially?
> > Man, is it bright, mostly tin mix.
> > Michael Pierce, where are ya when I need ya?
> > Don Secondine
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
> > http://messenger.msn.com
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info:
> > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:12:04 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <conner_one@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Isn't that PRECIOUS?
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1A439.764C7D60
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
By the way, I do believe since my father pointed out to me years =
ago, much of the cast in Heston and Keith's portrayal of THE MOUNTAIN =
MEN were AMM members at the rendezvous scene, whom played in the movie =
that allowed the word. I wonder how many black powder oriented fathers =
would censor their children from viewing the movie? By accepting a role =
within the movie, do not the participants give acceptability to the =
language and scenes within the document despite it's Hollywood distorted =
aroma?
Sue Raven
- -------------------------------------------------
Lady I was in the movie with many other AMM brothers, we only where =
involved in the rendezvous scene, we saw very little of Heston or Keith =
or what they said for the roles as we where in the back ground, there =
was so much yelling and loud music you couldn't even hear a friend 20 =
feet away. We where all surprised at the Keith's language when we saw =
the uncut version at LaVeta the next summer. As far as "acceptability" =
to anything, the director is the only one that as that ability, we where =
yelling about anything from clothing to weapons that their people where =
using, our complaints when on deaf ears.
Buck.
- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1A439.764C7D60
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"> By the way, I =
do=20
believe since my father pointed out to me years ago, much =
of the=20
cast in Heston and Keith's portrayal of THE MOUNTAIN MEN were AMM =
members at the=20
rendezvous scene, whom played in the movie that allowed the=20
word. I wonder how many black powder oriented fathers would censor =
their=20
children from viewing the movie? By accepting a role within the =
movie, do=20
not the participants give acceptability to the language and scenes =
within the=20
document despite it's Hollywood distorted aroma?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Sue Raven</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS">-------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Lady I was in the movie with many =
other AMM=20
brothers, we only where involved in the rendezvous scene, we saw very =
little of=20
Heston or Keith or what they said for the roles as we where in the back =
ground,=20
there was so much yelling and loud music you couldn't even hear a friend =
20 feet=20
away. We where all surprised at the Keith's language when we =
saw the=20
uncut version at LaVeta the next summer. As far as "acceptability" to =
anything,=20
the director is the only one that as that ability, we where yelling =
about=20
anything from clothing to weapons that their people where using, our =
complaints=20
when on deaf ears.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Buck.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1A439.764C7D60--
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:36:37 -0600
From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Unsubscribe
<html>
Unsubscribe me, please.<br>
<br>
I have been on this list for a while, mostly lurking, but learning a
great deal.<br>
Now, I've learned that this list has degenerated beyond anything worth
reading. I have slow bandwidth, side effect of living in the
country. Downloading a lengthy pile of pissing matches is not
something I care to do anymore. <br>
<br>
With regrets,<br>
Todd Schrivener<br>
<br>
<br>
At 10:01 AM 1/23/02 -0800, you wrote: <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face=3D"Lucida Handwriting"><blockquote type=3Dcite cite>And he
said:<br>
</font>=A0<br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>"Dear Sue: <br>
I think Todd said it. <br>
I have not seen <i>Gretchen post on this list before and the first time
she does this is how you treat her?</i> That was a real Blond moment on
your part. <br>
Crazy Cyot "</font><br>
<br>
<font face=3D"Lucida Handwriting" size=3D3>And she said:<br>
</font><br>
<font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Mr. Crazy Coyote and <u>ALL past and future
posters</u>,<br>
</font><br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I will try not to lower myself to coming into conflict with=
many of
the male archetypes within this list other than debate; something very
difficult for a few.=A0 The fact I have a doctorate in history <i>does not
qualify me </i>to berate AMM,=A0or the host of this list.=A0 If I come acros=
s
as a <b>bee-otch </b>at anytime please feel free to let me know.=A0 Oh, if
someone has trouble with the word in reference to my gender, they might
contemplate upon the sexually descriptive noun used to describe mother
wolves, coyotes, and all other dogs.=A0 As a literary hero of mine, William
Shakespeare used the word in his play KING LEAR in 1605.=A0=A0At the=A0same
time Elizabeth's homosexual cousin, James was on the throne.=A0 The one
responsible for the=A0first English translation of the Bible that some of
you profess to=A0believe in.=A0 So, if=A0<i>bitch</i> was acceptable with Sh=
ake
speare, and many of my <br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 By the way, I do believe since=A0my father=A0pointed out to me =
years
ago,=A0much of the cast in Heston and Keith's portrayal of THE MOUNTAIN MEN
were AMM members at the rendezvous scene, whom played in=A0the movie
that=A0allowed the word.=A0 I wonder how many black powder oriented fathers
would censor their children from viewing the movie?=A0 By accepting a role
within the movie, do not the participants give acceptability to the
language and scenes within the document despite it's Hollywood distorted
aroma?<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 My comment to Gretchen was <b>'woman to woman'</b>.=A0 If I=
chose not
to go off list with her,=A0in the same vein=A0why did she not=A0choose=A0to =
go
off list with Ned?=A0 If the males on this list can not see the humiliation
that she created for her husband, then <i>unlike my Dad, you're most
likely whipped as well or simply ignorant and without=A0'class'</i>.=A0<br>
<br>
In Hard Love,<br>
<br>
Sue Raven<br>
<br>
P. S.=A0 Since you like 'blond' jokes, I'll post one for you next
time=A0sweet Crazy.=A0 Also, the married men on this list would do well not
to ask me off list for my phone number, and should cease the sexually
offensive remarks!<br>
<br>
<br>
<hr>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
<a=
href=3D"'http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_en.asp'">http://explorer.msn.com</=
a>.<br>
</blockquote><br>
<BR>
</html>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:06:11 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
A few cycles thorough the dishwasher with lots of strong detergent on pot
scrubber setting should help.
John...
At 05:43 PM 1/23/02, you wrote:
>Howdy fellas,
>Anybody here no how to gray down pewter or antique it artificially?
>Man, is it bright, mostly tin mix.
>Michael Pierce, where are ya when I need ya?
>Don Secondine
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:12:58 -0700
From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Horses and Trapping
Ned,
I understand your point more clearly now. You are right that they probably
weren't riding into the trapping areas. How long it takes to trap out an
area is situational. One thing I've learned from trapping is that a few
beaver can cause alot of dams and damage (well, damage from our perspective).
Anyway, that Horse Creek country is some pretty ground. Several of us did a
5 day right up north of there near the headwaters of the Green, across to
the Gros Ventre. Saw griz tracks every day.
Planning a 10 day ride there next year, that should be an adventure.
Take care and mind those horses!
Allen
At 05:40 PM 1/23/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Mrs. Ormand,
>
>You are absolutely right, and for my part, I am sorry. Many on the list
>e-mailed me expressing regrets for the conduct of others on the list, so the
>posts went both ways...anyway none of this serves any purpose, we are all
>here because we share a common interest and to learn from each other.
>
>Hardtack, I hope your post was a "tongue in cheek" remark. I admit to
>getting older and grumpier, but hopefully, not Alzheimer's...usually,
>everyone knows exactly where I stand on something.
>
>For the people that emailed me directly, let me say that there were good
>points on each side, but they got lost in the replies. There is no doubt
>that the North West and, after 1821, the Hudson's Bay Brigades traveled at
>least five out of seven days or even more. One purpose being to create a
>buffer zone between the Americans and the Oregon Country. The Brigades that
>carried out George Simpson's "scorched earth policy" concentrated on the
>beaver rich areas primarily the high mountain valleys, for example, Ogden's
>Hole (Huntsville, Utah). In 1825, Peter Skene Ogden spent six days there
>with a total of 131 people (~ 60 trappers), 268 horses, and 352 traps. He
>moved camp while there, but it was because they run out of horse pasture
>near the camp. The last Hudson's Bay Brigade in this area, Idaho - Wyoming,
>was I believe 1828. The major reason that the Hudson's Bay quit the brigade
>system was that they could no longer travel from Fort Vancouver, Washington,
>and trap enough beaver to make it feasible. After building Fort Boise (1835)
>and acquiring, Fort Hall (1837) , the Hudson's Bay people were more traders
>than trappers.
>
>Once the major valley floors were trapped out, the next places were the
>streams and rivers coming out of the canyons, and this leads to my argument
>that mountain men probably walked as much as they rode...once they reached
>the trapping areas. Crazy Cyot and others will agree that a canyon trail
>does not always follow the streambed. Downed timber, willows, bogs, and
>beaver dams makes horse travel up a good portion of the canyon floor
>impossible, and sometimes the entire canyon. Now, picture what it was like
>before most of the beaver were trapped out. And remember, in those days
>there were basically no trails.
>
>My scenario is that in general they camped in an area off the main stream
>where it was safer, and where there was good grass and water for their
>horses if they had them. By walking, you can get over, or around, downed
>timber, through the willows, and across bogs that are impossible to do
>riding a horse. Once the area close to camp was trapped out, which could
>take days or weeks, they probably moved camp upstream and started over. From
>the mouth of the canyon to the head of North Horse Creek is roughly sixteen
>miles by trail. It would take a small party of trappers most of the summer
>to trap it and the small tributaries coming into it with maybe three or four
>camp moves. In case some of you are not familiar with North Horse Creek, the
>rendezvous of 1833, 1835, 1836, 1837, 1839, and 1840 were held on the lower
>part of it.
>
>To me, there is a vast difference between the Mountain Men of 1810 to 1830
>and those that came after 1830, when most of the journals were
>written...these journals are more about their travels than how they actually
>trapped. One reason for this difference was the areas near the rendezvous
>sites had been trapped out, and in order to reach new prime beaver country,
>i.e the Three Forks in Montana, the trappers had to cover greater distances.
>There is no doubt that it required horses to get them there. After they were
>in the new area, they had the same problems trapping the canyons as I have
>already pointed out.
>
>I still maintain, the earliest trappers in these mountains spent more time
>walking than they did riding. Even if they started out with horses, which
>most did, Indians usually stole them. As many of you stated, if Indians
>stole them that means they had horses (logic 101)...not after they didn't,
>Indians did.
>
>YMOS
>Ned
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:13:46 -0800
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Isn't that PRECIOUS?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Jewell" <tjewell@home.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Isn't that PRECIOUS?
> Hey List,
>
> I was just wondering if anyone knows *SUE RAVEN* personally. If not,
> consider that no one knew *CLINT GARRETT* either.
Tim,
No I do not know either individual. And I could care less if CG is back. The
best way to deal with people who are rude is to ignore them. But I am taking
the liberty of attaching below a few good one liners from a post that is
attributed to Dave Barry. Perhaps they are of value in putting the present
circumstances in perspective?!:
3. There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
6. You should not confuse your career with your life.
7. No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too
seriously.
8. When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual
who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that
individual is crazy.
12. The most powerful force in the universe is gossip.
18. A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice
person.
19. Your friends love you anyway.
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:13:53 +0000
From: "darlene secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
Thanks John,
It's a pored on the gunstock type nose cap. I don't think this recipe will
work on this project. Thanks for the post though, I got a chuckle out of it.
Your friend,
Don Secondine
>From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pewter nose caps
>Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:06:11 -0600
>
>A few cycles thorough the dishwasher with lots of strong detergent on pot
>scrubber setting should help.
>
>John...
>
>
>At 05:43 PM 1/23/02, you wrote:
>>Howdy fellas,
>>Anybody here no how to gray down pewter or antique it artificially?
>>Man, is it bright, mostly tin mix.
>>Michael Pierce, where are ya when I need ya?
>>Don Secondine
>>
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>>
>>
>>----------------------
>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:21:39 -0500
From: <cd252@ptd.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Isn't that PRECIOUS?
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0297_01C1A45C.556F7980
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am a relative "Newbie" to this list ... so if I speak out of turn I =
apologise.....but...I think alot of the members here are overly =
sensitive and uptight isn't this list supposed to be informative, a =
open forum for different opinions and interpratation of the past and =
last but not least....FUN?
----- Original Message -----=20
From: SUE RAVEN=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Isn't that PRECIOUS?
And he said:
"Dear Sue:=20
I think Todd said it.=20
I have not seen Gretchen post on this list before and the first time =
she does this is how you treat her? That was a real Blond moment on your =
part.=20
Crazy Cyot "
And she said:
Mr. Crazy Coyote and ALL past and future posters,
I will try not to lower myself to coming into conflict with many =
of the male archetypes within this list other than debate; something =
very difficult for a few. The fact I have a doctorate in history does =
not qualify me to berate AMM, or the host of this list. If I come =
across as a bee-otch at anytime please feel free to let me know. Oh, if =
someone has trouble with the word in reference to my gender, they might =
contemplate upon the sexually descriptive noun used to describe mother =
wolves, coyotes, and all other dogs. As a literary hero of mine, =
William Shakespeare used the word in his play KING LEAR in 1605. At the =
same time Elizabeth's homosexual cousin, James was on the throne. The =
one responsible for the first English translation of the Bible that some =
of you profess to believe in. So, if bitch was acceptable with =
Shakespeare, and many of my ebony feminist sisters, then it is proper =
with me. Besides I utilize the noun in the classes I teach, as well as =
allow it's usage from my students, and frequently hear it openly used in =
the university(not a Bible School) system. =20
By the way, I do believe since my father pointed out to me years =
ago, much of the cast in Heston and Keith's portrayal of THE MOUNTAIN =
MEN were AMM members at the rendezvous scene, whom played in the movie =
that allowed the word. I wonder how many black powder oriented fathers =
would censor their children from viewing the movie? By accepting a role =
within the movie, do not the participants give acceptability to the =
language and scenes within the document despite it's Hollywood distorted =
aroma?
My comment to Gretchen was 'woman to woman'. If I chose not to =
go off list with her, in the same vein why did she not choose to go off =
list with Ned? If the males on this list can not see the humiliation =
that she created for her husband, then unlike my Dad, you're most likely =
whipped as well or simply ignorant and without 'class'.=20
In Hard Love,
Sue Raven
P. S. Since you like 'blond' jokes, I'll post one for you next time =
sweet Crazy. Also, the married men on this list would do well not to =
ask me off list for my phone number, and should cease the sexually =
offensive remarks!
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am a relative "Newbie" to this list =
... so if I=20
speak out of turn I apologise.....but...I think alot of the members here =
are=20
overly sensitive and uptight isn't this list supposed to be=20
informative, a open forum for different opinions and =
interpratation of the=20
past and last but not least....FUN?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dblond40ddqhearts@hotmail.com=20
href=3D"mailto:blond40ddqhearts@hotmail.com">SUE RAVEN</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com=
</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 23, =
2002 1:01=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Isn't =
that=20
PRECIOUS?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">And he said:</FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Dear Sue: <BR>I think Todd said it. =
<BR>I have=20
not seen <I>Gretchen post on this list before and the first time she =
does this=20
is how you treat her?</I> That was a real Blond moment on your part. =
<BR>Crazy=20
Cyot "</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">And she said:</FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Mr. Crazy Coyote and <U>ALL past and =
future=20
posters</U>,</FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"> I will =
try not to=20
lower myself to coming into conflict with many of the male archetypes =
within=20
this list other than debate; something very difficult for a few. =
The=20
fact I have a doctorate in history <EM>does not qualify me </EM>to =
berate=20
AMM, or the host of this list. If I come across as a=20
<STRONG>bee-otch </STRONG>at anytime please feel free to let me =
know. =20
Oh, if someone has trouble with the word in reference to my gender, =
they might=20
contemplate upon the sexually descriptive noun used to describe mother =
wolves,=20
coyotes, and all other dogs. As a literary hero of mine, William =
Shakespeare used the word in his play KING LEAR in 1605. At =
the same time Elizabeth's homosexual cousin, James was on the=20
throne. The one responsible for the first English =
translation of=20
the Bible that some of you profess to believe in. So,=20
if <EM>bitch</EM> was acceptable with Shakespeare, and many of my =
ebony=20
feminist sisters, then it is proper with me. Besides I =
utilize=20
the noun in the classes I teach, as well as allow it's =
usage from my=20
students, and frequently hear it openly used in the =
university(not a=20
Bible School) system. </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"> By the way, I =
do=20
believe since my father pointed out to me years =
ago, much of=20
the cast in Heston and Keith's portrayal of THE MOUNTAIN MEN were AMM =
members=20
at the rendezvous scene, whom played in the movie =
that allowed the=20
word. I wonder how many black powder oriented fathers would =
censor their=20
children from viewing the movie? By accepting a role within the =
movie,=20
do not the participants give acceptability to the language and scenes =
within=20
the document despite it's Hollywood distorted aroma?</FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"> My comment to =
Gretchen=20
was <STRONG>'woman to woman'</STRONG>. If I chose not to go off =
list=20
with her, in the same vein why did she =
not choose to go=20
off list with Ned? If the males on this list can not see the =
humiliation=20
that she created for her husband, then <EM>unlike my Dad, you're most =
likely=20
whipped as well or simply ignorant and=20
without 'class'</EM>. </FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">In Hard Love,</FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Sue Raven</FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">P. S. Since you like 'blond' =
jokes, I'll=20
post one for you next time sweet Crazy. Also, the married =
men on=20
this list would do well not to ask me off list for my phone number, =
and should=20
cease the sexually offensive remarks!</FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
<HR>
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