Someone asked what kinda gun I shot the buffalo with. I used an old
CenterMark Tulle I bought as a kit and put together about 20 years ago. My
most favorite smooth bore with no rear site. (onlyest smoothbore, come to
think of it...<G>) The charge was 90 grains of 2f, covered with a card and
fiber wad, and then a .600 patched round ball.
At about 30 yards broadside, I had the option of a head shot (in the ear),
the lungs, or heart. I took the heart, and held a bit high so if I missed,
I'd at least hit a lung...I didn't miss. The young bull nearly went down at
the impact, and only slowly walked about 20 yards before collapsing.
Waaaaaugh!
Magpie
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:31:40 EST
From: CTOAKES@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tulle/buffalo/Deer all purpose gun
<<I used an old CenterMark Tulle I bought as a kit and put together about 20 years ago. My most favorite smooth bore>>
Mine too, I got my Tulle from Center Mark about 2 years (two deer seasons)ago. And both seasons it has put a deer in the freezer both years. I got a mine with a rear sight (which can be documented) due to my poor old eyes. Both deer I put down with 75 grains of 3F at under 50 yards. Paul at Center Mark makes a nice, working hunting gun. I told him I wanted a hunting gun with plain iron fittings and a good strong stock (not all curly pretty) and I got a straight shooting, fast action, handsome tool that makes meat with shot or ball.
Y.M.O.S.
C.T. Oakes
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:44:10 EST
From: WSmith4100@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tulle/buffalo/Deer all purpose gun
How, when and/or where does one get a hold of this "Centermark Company"?
Do they have a website, or at least a mailing address? Pilgrim questions
all, I know.
Wade "Sleeps loudly" Smith
Boise, Id
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:51:30 EST
From: WSmith4100@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "The Great Buffallo Shoot"
Congrats Magpie. That sure is some pretty country you took it in too.
Haven't been up there in about 15 yrs. Brings back fond memories of shining
times.
Wade "Sleeps loudly" Smith
Boise ID
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 18:15:42 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: CenterMark
Wade, Here's the contact info I got off the MLML web site:
CenterMark
PO Box 4066 Parnassus Station
New Kensington, Pa. 15068
412-335-1319
Replica fusil gun kits
As a side note, I too have one of their fusils, Type D with Bayonet
(Grenadier) and really enjoy it. Great kit that finishes up into a reliable
friend. Barney
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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:33:43 EST
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Rear sights on Tulle
In a message dated 1/8/02 1:33:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, CTOAKES@aol.com
writes:
<< And both seasons it has put a deer in the freezer both years. I got a
mine with a rear sight (which can be documented) >>
Could you send me that particular document by chance? I'd like to have it
for my Tulle.
There was a tactical at Ft. Toulouse that has apparently been juried as of
now by one or two guys so I will need it if I am to use that gun!!! <BG>
- -C.Kent
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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 03:13:26 EST
From: WSmith4100@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CenterMark
Thanks Barney,
I always appreciate the response to my questions by this group.
Wade
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Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 07:54:34 EST
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rear sights on Tulle
In a message dated 1/8/02 6:35:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
HikingOnThru@cs.com writes:
<< Could you send me that particular document by chance? I'd like to have it
for my Tulle. >>
Try Book of Buckskinning IV -- pages 111, 115, & 120 of the article by
Charles Hanson. He shows pictures of smooth bores from Holland, France,
England, & a "rifle-mounted fusil" by Henry Deringer from about 1812. Those
"fly specks" on the rear portion of the barrels where sights are supposed to
be are just that -- sights. Also see the French Model 1766 carbine -- item 5
on page 65 of George Neumann & Frank Kravic's "Collector's Illustrated
Encyclopedia of the American Revolution". Had this argument before. Seems
rear sights on smooth bores wasn't all that uncommon. The Northwest trade
gun doesn't seem to have ever been equipped with rear sights, but they show
up on fowlers, fusils, & military smooth bores.
NM
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:35:07 EST
From: CTOAKES@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CenterMark
<<Wade, Here's the contact info I got off the MLML web site:
CenterMark
PO Box 4066 Parnassus Station
New Kensington, Pa. 15068
412-335-1319
Replica fusil gun kits>>
That is an old address, Paul bought the company a few years back and runs it on his farm in Fredonia NY. I do not have the address and number handy but I will get it and post it when I get it this after noon.
Y.M.O.S.
C.T.Oakes
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:50:55 EST
From: CTOAKES@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rear sights on Tulle & Center Mark Address
If your persona is strict military and you are serving in a French Military unit you would not have a Tulle issued to you from his majisties armory with a rear sight. All of the existing Tulles and Fowlers that have rear sights were converted military to civilian (I'm civilian Ranger Militia) or in the case of the quote unquote "American Fowler" were built for civilians. So in a strict interpretation my Tulle is no longer a Military Tulle, it was 'captured in the early part of the war and converted to my civilian needs, the barrel was shortened due to damage caused to the muzzle by one of those stupid french plug bayonents, and I needed to hunt meat for my family so I had the gun smith also add the rear sight to improve hunting". At least that is the persona of my favorite gun named #10.If you need at least one and you can not get to the Smithsonian collection, Neumann's book Battle Weapoans of the American Revolution shows smoothbores and fowlers with rear sights. Mine looks a lot like page 162.
By the way here is the info for CenterMark Inc., P.O. Box 575, Fredonia NY 14063, 716-679-0276, Owner is Paul and I will misspell his last name but it is phonetically "See Burt". Paul is great to deal with and as he is a working farmer this is the time of year when he has time to work on your gun.
Y.M.O.S.
C.T. Oakes
<<In a message dated Tue, 8 Jan 2002 9:35:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, HikingOnThru@cs.com writes:
> In a message dated 1/8/02 1:33:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, CTOAKES@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << And both seasons it has put a deer in the freezer both years. I got a
> mine with a rear sight (which can be documented) >>
> Could you send me that particular document by chance? I'd like to have it
> for my Tulle.
> There was a tactical at Ft. Toulouse that has apparently been juried as of
> now by one or two guys so I will need it if I am to use that gun!!! <BG>
>
> -C.Kent
>
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> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 06:54:07 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <conner_one@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rear sights on Tulle
>
> << Could you send me that particular document by chance? I'd like to have
it
> for my Tulle. >>
>
> Try Book of Buckskinning IV -- pages 111, 115, & 120 of the article by
> Charles Hanson. He shows pictures of smooth bores from Holland, France,
> England, & a "rifle-mounted fusil" by Henry Deringer from about 1812.
Those
> "fly specks" on the rear portion of the barrels where sights are supposed
to
> be are just that -- sights. Also see the French Model 1766 carbine --
item 5
> on page 65 of George Neumann & Frank Kravic's "Collector's Illustrated
> Encyclopedia of the American Revolution". Had this argument before.
Seems
> rear sights on smooth bores wasn't all that uncommon. The Northwest trade
> gun doesn't seem to have ever been equipped with rear sights, but they
show
> up on fowlers, fusils, & military smooth bores.
>
> NM
>
Factory installed rear sights are very uncommon, I worked with Charley
Hanson on an article on "Trade Guns", "Northwest Guns", "Farmer Guns"
(Tryon's name for the same), looked at many government contracts and supply
lists that he had at hand, only found a few that requested rear sights
(special order by a factor usually) but on Wilson Chief's guns they appeared
more than any other manufacturer - Charley never figured that one out ! A
large percentage of the guns at the Museum of the Fur Trade and what Curly
G. and a few others have with rear sights where added after being delivered.
I have three original trade guns, one is an early style sight that is
soldered on the barrel flat, while another is just a tab of metal turned up
from the barrel flat with a small notch filed in for sighting, the third is
with no sight, all after market rear sights. I have seen originals with
"fly speck" rear sight that where no more than center punch marks lined up
side by side, Hanson told me these marks where probably added by a
blacksmith, was it at the factory or at the settlement after delivery ?
When I go to collector, gun or antique gun shows I'm always looking for this
type weapon, usually the ones one will find have had poor repair work or in
such bad shape that I pass on buying them. This thing about rear sights has
been going on for 50 years and will probably never be settled. It's no
different than the "copper tin lined canteen" issue that one of the National
group's said wasn't available until the Civil War - I contacted a Dr.
V.L.Bigsby at Valley Forge Historical Society in PA and he furnished photos
of pieces of one found at that sight. So what we think is correct today can
change with good research and good documentation tomorrow.
Right now I'm trying to come to terms with a gentleman on a Wilson Chief's
gun that is about NRA 85%, untouched with a factory installed rear sight
that is approx. 3/16 " in height, shallow sight notch, sweated onto the
barrel (no dovetailed notch like folks today do), uncut 42" barrel, another
example of a rear factory sight, and according to the documentation on this
gun - it was ordered with this sight (special order again).
Buck.
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:47:48 EST
From: WSmith4100@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CenterMark
Thanks C.T.,
Once again, I appreciate the help.
Wade
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 04:56:24 -0600
From: "Paul W Jones" <pwjones@myexcel.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Dear Members,
I finally dug out the remainder of my Museum Fur Trade Quarterlies.=20
Included are 49 volumes, with 4 being combined issues. All are original =
issues save and except those marked with an **, which are musuem =
produced xerox copies.
I will offer the entire lot for $120.00, including postage. If I do not =
receive a buyer for that price by January 18 at 12:00 noon, I will then =
offer the collection on E-Bay. =20
Thank you for your consideration. =20
What remains available is as follows:
Volume 1, 1965 (combined issues 1 through 4)
Volume 2, Spring 1966, #1 (this volume is a xerox furnished by the =
museum, and any other issues that are also copies will be marked with an =
"**."
Volume 2, Summer 1966, #2, **
Volume 2, Winter, 1966, #4
Volume 3, Spring 1967 (combined issues 1 through 4)
Volume 10, Winter 1974, #4, **
Volume 11, Spring 1975, #1, **
Volume 11, Summer 1975, #2, **
Volume 11, Fall 1975, #3, **
Volume 11, Winter 1975, #4, **
Volume 12, Spring 1976, #1, **
Volume 12, Summer 1976, #2, **
Volume 12, Fall 1976, #3, **
Volume 12, Winter 1976, #4, **
Volume 13, Spring 1977, #1
Volume 13, Summer 1977, #2
Volume 13, Winter 1977, #4
Volume 19, Summer 1983, #2
Volume 19, Fall 1983, #3
Volume 19, Winter 1983, #4
Volume 21, Spring 1985, #1
Volume 21, Fall 1985, #3
Volume 21, Winter 1985, #4
Volume 22, Fall 1986, #3
Volume22, Winter 1986, #4
Volume 23, Spring 1987, #1
Volume 23, Summer 1987, #2
Volume 23, Fall 1987, #3
Volume 24, Summer 1988, #2
Volume 24, Fall 1988, #3
Volume 24, Winter 1988, #4
Volume 25, Spring 1989, #1
Volume 25, Summer 1989, #2
Volume 25, Fall 1989, #3
Volume 25, Winter 1989, #4
Volume 26, Spring 1990, #1
Volume 26, Summer 1990, #2
Volume 26, Fall 1990, #3
Volume26, Winter 1990, #4
Volume 27, Combined issues, Spring and Summer 1991, #1 & #2
Volume 27, Winter 1991, #4
Volume 28, Combined issues, Summer and Fall 1992, #2 & #3
Volume 28, Winter 1992, #4
Volume 29, Spring 1993, #1
Volume 29, Summer 1993, #2
Volume 33, Winter 1997, #4
Volume 34, Spring 1998, #1
Volume 34, Fall 1998, #3
Volume 35, Winter 1999, #4
Regards,
Paul
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