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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 22:50:25 EST
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Why the hub-bub about being AMM or not?
Hey Camp,
As someone who hails from the southeast, I was wondering about all the
hub-bub about being AMM or non-AMM. If I am reading all this correctly, this
started out as someone thinkng someone was claiming to be AMM member or
something like that and has kinda wound up as a debate on why some AMM folk
act as if they have "arrived" - by other's observations.
Now bear in mind, I know one AMM person pretty well and this person is a real
gem and a trove of trapping knowledge! Hails from up in NH - guy was even
nice enough to offer to try and get me an invite to Eastern. Talking with
AMM guys like him makes me want to get involved.
But when I read all this other stuff by some folks who are AMM members -
makes it sound not too appealing. Almost like it is some kind of "regal
status". Granted, I have read the requirements and at all levels it is not
something that folks and just jaunt on into and wear a badge proclaiming
membership. Takes work. Still, there is such a thing as pride in what you
have accomplished AND humility. Often they do not co-exist but tend to work
best when they do. If folks want to boast and yarn - good - do it around a
fire amongst folks you know well. This acting like you have the answer to
all things RMFT and outdoors oriented (and, yeah, it does read that way at
times) does nothing to attract new members.
And without new members, fine organizations such as the brotherhood of AMM
will surely perish. After all, is not sponsorship and mentoring part of the
philosophy?
Now, I am not saying I am mad or happy or anyone in particular is right or
wrong...just saying how it looks from the outside looking in. If a feller
ain't true AMM member - then let him be the spectacle he makes of himself.
He won't be at events anyway. His loss of pride...not yours.
For what it is worth,
C.Kent
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:37:57 -0500
From: <cd252@ptd.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Why the hub-bub about being AMM or not?
As another "outsider looking in" I could not of said it better
myself....well said Mr Kent.... Well said.
Peace to all,
Big Dave
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <HikingOnThru@cs.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:50 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Why the hub-bub about being AMM or not?
> Hey Camp,
>
> As someone who hails from the southeast, I was wondering about all the
> hub-bub about being AMM or non-AMM. If I am reading all this correctly,
this
> started out as someone thinkng someone was claiming to be AMM member or
> something like that and has kinda wound up as a debate on why some AMM
folk
> act as if they have "arrived" - by other's observations.
>
> Now bear in mind, I know one AMM person pretty well and this person is a
real
> gem and a trove of trapping knowledge! Hails from up in NH - guy was even
> nice enough to offer to try and get me an invite to Eastern. Talking with
> AMM guys like him makes me want to get involved.
>
> But when I read all this other stuff by some folks who are AMM members -
> makes it sound not too appealing. Almost like it is some kind of "regal
> status". Granted, I have read the requirements and at all levels it is
not
> something that folks and just jaunt on into and wear a badge proclaiming
> membership. Takes work. Still, there is such a thing as pride in what
you
> have accomplished AND humility. Often they do not co-exist but tend to
work
> best when they do. If folks want to boast and yarn - good - do it around
a
> fire amongst folks you know well. This acting like you have the answer to
> all things RMFT and outdoors oriented (and, yeah, it does read that way at
> times) does nothing to attract new members.
>
> And without new members, fine organizations such as the brotherhood of AMM
> will surely perish. After all, is not sponsorship and mentoring part of
the
> philosophy?
>
> Now, I am not saying I am mad or happy or anyone in particular is right or
> wrong...just saying how it looks from the outside looking in. If a feller
> ain't true AMM member - then let him be the spectacle he makes of himself.
> He won't be at events anyway. His loss of pride...not yours.
>
> For what it is worth,
> C.Kent
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 00:10:54 EST
From: Ssturtle1199@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Why the hub-bub about being AMM or not?
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I am afraid somewhere here lately the true spirit of the AMM has been lost.
When I joined it was not about being an "elitist" , being correct enough to
pass for Bridger's twin or even knowing everything about the Fur trade. It
was a like group of men wanting to improve their knowledge. That is the AMM
I joined and I still have BROTHERS that feel that way. These brothers just
moniter the site and don't post much, like me. I hope I die in about 50
years, and still don't know nuthin about the fur trade. C. Kent, you sound
like you might be a man I would be proud to call a brother. All I can say,
is just overlook the perfectionists, and strive to be the best you can be
with what you got. Then I will be proud to call you a Brother.
Tll trails cross+
Turtle
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>I am afraid somewhere here lately the true spirit of the AMM has been lost. When I joined it was not about being an "elitist" , being correct enough to pass for Bridger's twin or even knowing everything about the Fur trade. It was a like group of men wanting to improve their knowledge. That is the AMM I joined and I still have BROTHERS that feel that way. These brothers just moniter the site and don't post much, like me. I hope I die in about 50 years, and still don't know nuthin about the fur trade. C. Kent, you sound like you might be a man I would be proud to call a brother. All I can say, is just overlook the perfectionists, and strive to be the best you can be with what you got. Then I will be proud to call you a Brother.
<BR>Tll trails cross+
<BR>Turtle</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:49:42 -0800
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Why the hub-bub about being AMM or not?
> As someone who hails from the southeast, I was wondering about all the
> hub-bub about being AMM or non-AMM.
C.Kent,
If I may? From someone on the inside, it was a matter of someone seeming to
imply by his words that he was AMM or on his way to being or very intimately
involved in AMM activities and intimate with AMM members and their
activities. It was becoming obvious to those on this list who are AMM that
this individual not only didn't know what he was talking about on some of
the subjects he was throwing around but he was also being rather insulting
of what basically are his hosts here. The question simply went out "Is he on
the rolls" or not. The answer is Not.
Much of what the individual in question was spouting dealt with conjecture
and when anyone suggested that such was simply speculation seemingly thrown
out to justify doing it as one sees fit without proof, he then digressed
into implying that AMM members are elitists, etc.
AMM members in general have much to be proud of and consider it their honor
and duty to stand as a "reliable source" for correct information. They take
that responsibility seriously and yet most do not feel they have all the
answers and therefore continue the discussion and continue this list for
that specific purpose. That is not to say that someone can come off as
"knowing it all". That is on the one hand human nature (we are not perfect)
and on the other hand a flaw in this communication medium where we can not
set across the fire and hash these questions and ideas out.
<If I am reading all this correctly, this
> started out as someone thinking someone was claiming to be AMM member or
> something like that and has kinda wound up as a debate on why some AMM
folk
> act as if they have "arrived" - by other's observations.>
Many "exclusive" groups have that image of having "arrived" and to an extent
it is true. By the same token many individuals who are not members of any
group can be said to "have arrived". It really means nothing once you get on
the ground. You will find members of a proud group such as AMM to come in
many shades of "well done" and many individuals just involved on their own
coming in various shades of "well done". Most of the AMM members and other
truly knowledgeable individuals I have come across are humble more often
than not. They are willing to share their knowledge, willing to admit when
they are truly proven mistaken in their assumptions and not at all stuck up.
But looking at the average individual at most Rendezvous, I must say with
honesty that AMM is not for everyone. Some wish only to blend in with the
majority and seem to care little about seriously looking at what they have
and what they carry and what they do. There is nothing wrong with that. Nice
folks all in all, you can't find a better cut of the American scene than
what you find at any Rendezvous.
But this list is not for the average Rendezvous goer. It is here to
seriously discuss the history of the early western expansion via the fur
trade and not discuss what we can get by with that will look ok to most.
When such gets to be the discussion it can often seem like there are
elitists running amuck when nothing of the sort is the case. You've seen it
on the mlml I'm sure.
>
> Now bear in mind, I know one AMM person pretty well and this person is a
real
> gem and a trove of trapping knowledge! Hails from up in NH - guy was even
> nice enough to offer to try and get me an invite to Eastern. Talking with
> AMM guys like him makes me want to get involved.
And that is usually what you'll find. So why believe the bs that comes over
the wires? What does your personal experience tell you?
>
> But when I read all this other stuff by some folks who are AMM members -
> makes it sound not too appealing. Almost like it is some kind of "regal
> status". Granted, I have read the requirements and at all levels it is
not
> something that folks and just jaunt on into and wear a badge proclaiming
> membership. Takes work.
So it is tough and to have achieved full membership is something to be proud
of. And when your in a proud moment how to come across as humble too?
This acting like you have the answer to
> all things RMFT and outdoors oriented (and, yeah, it does read that way at
> times) does nothing to attract new members.
It may very well read that way at times. Remember how hard it is to convey
your true feelings and expressions in type? AMM is not about attracting new
members as much as it is about being dedicated to doing it right. The
journey has no end for the honest member. But AMM does look for those who
really are serious because any organization needs new blood but not
necessarily any blood. Being a brotherhood, it can also boil down to a
persons ability to get along with the group. But for some it is best to go
it alone.
>
> And without new members, fine organizations such as the brotherhood of AMM
> will surely perish. After all, is not sponsorship and mentoring part of
the
> philosophy?
Yes it is and for the most part new members are not a problem. But again,
AMM is not for everyone nor should it be.
>
> Now, I am not saying I am mad or happy or anyone in particular is right or
> wrong...just saying how it looks from the outside looking in.
Look deeper.
If a feller
> ain't true AMM member - then let him be the spectacle he makes of himself.
> He won't be at events anyway. His loss of pride...not yours.
Up to the point he makes himself out to be a member and isn't. Then he
reflects on those who are. Since this is not a moderated list it is hard to
figure out how to deal with such individuals other than stronger and
stronger suggestions or out right ostracism by not responding to their post.
Even at that, I can't think of any one here who wouldn't welcome someone
back after their meds wear off and they calm down a bit.
>
> For what it is worth,
> C.Kent
Your opinion is always worth a read.
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 22:24:16 -0800
From: Larry Butler <larry@fun-a-fair.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mime-Version: 1.0
Sounds the same way up here in the NW mr.Kent.
Larry
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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 04:01:52 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <conner_one@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Why the hub-bub about being AMM or not?
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Turtle,
What you stated about the AMM is still true and pretty much says it all =
"It was a like group of men wanting to improve their knowledge" and may =
I add also "improve their skills to try and equal that of our =
forefathers".=20
This "elitist" business was started my those that where "want-a-bee's" =
years ago, you know the type; got there first set of chrome tanned =
leathers - shiny side out, TC Hawkins, leather beer can holder and then =
never changed for the next 20 years and when asked about their gear =
would give the usual reply "if they had it they would use it".
The folks on this list are in various stages of change and that's a plus =
for the list and those involved, hopefully the members of this list have =
all helped each other in one way or another to improve no matter what =
their associations are.
Thank you & do take care,
Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" Thomas Jefferson 1771
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ssturtle1199@aol.com=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Why the hub-bub about being AMM or not?
I am afraid somewhere here lately the true spirit of the AMM has been =
lost. When I joined it was not about being an "elitist" , being correct =
enough to pass for Bridger's twin or even knowing everything about the =
Fur trade. It was a like group of men wanting to improve their =
knowledge. That is the AMM I joined and I still have BROTHERS that feel =
that way. These brothers just moniter the site and don't post much, =
like me. I hope I die in about 50 years, and still don't know nuthin =
about the fur trade. C. Kent, you sound like you might be a man I =
would be proud to call a brother. All I can say, is just overlook the =
perfectionists, and strive to be the best you can be with what you got. =
Then I will be proud to call you a Brother.=20
Tll trails cross+=20
Turtle=20
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