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hist_text-digest      Thursday, December 27 2001      Volume 01 : Number 915



In this issue:

-áááááá MtMan-List: clarification
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bedding-beaver skins- - never!!!!!!!!     ???????
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: clarification
-áááááá MtMan-List: Horse packing
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: clarification
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Horse packing
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: clarification
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: clarification
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: COMPROMISES- the truth is gonna hurt
-áááááá MtMan-List: wanna be
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: wanna be
-áááááá MtMan-List: Dogs in camp
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: wanna be
-áááááá MtMan-List: my last word on Clint Garrett

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 15:05:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Clint Garrett <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: clarification

an interesting thing about e-mail is that we become
EQUALS IN CYBERSPACE(despite ignorance and knowledge
which the later shows).

despite the non members and members whom post on this
site, any one can be here.  there can be AMM brothers
whom post under different names.  Federal wildlife or
F.B.I agents, or just wives whom are interested or
want to talk with the AMM brothers.
   there are many whom are extrasensitive to the way
questions are put forth.  there are others who regard
themselves as 'elitist' because AMM is where they stop
as the pinnacle of buckskinning like one with a
doctorate degree.  i am also brothers with AMM members
whom only rely on it as a foundation or jumping off
point.
    i do appreciate the repramands on any of my
comments regarding what i do not know.   i also thank
the non-members for their educated veiwpoints.

for the record i have not said what my status is,
anymore than have i read where someone posted his
social security number.  i too, dislike misquotes.

anyone could post here using another name and number.
but neither denotes whether he is anymore than anyone
else.  you may call him on the phone if you doubt whom
he is to prove the posting was his.  it is like many
whom we know on the rendezvous circuit.  some are dyed
in the wool trappers whom literally hunt and trap,
other are merely rich guys with education and a
complete authentic wardrobe. but you have to trap to
really be a mountain man i beleive.
  i'd rather see us(black powder enthusiasts) worry
more about the knowledge than one's status as a
fraternal elitetist or a man whom carries the torch of
AMM beleifs practiced in his lifestyle(member or not).

as we all realize groups have a tendacy to 'gang' up
on one when he stands up.  thus there are NO TRULLY
honest men in American politics anymore than there are
practicing saints in prison.  i would hope my AMM
brothers would not lower themselves acting as if they
were starring as congressmen in "Mister Smith Goes To
Washington", played by Jimmy Stewart.

by the way there could possibly be a lot of us whom
take things out of context here.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 19:49:13 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bedding-beaver skins- - never!!!!!!!!     ???????

Some guard hair may have been lost, but the value wasn't in the guard hair it
was in the fur.  Also I doubt that the same fur would have been used very
often.  My reading tells me it was cashed and picked up before going to
rendezvous.  That is when it would have been used.  When you wanted to carry
as much as you could in the way of fur, or when it was the fur or your life.

                                                 Ridge Pole

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 02:16:38 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification

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Clint
I don't know what your smokin but it defiantly ain't good for ya.
just an observation from
Crazy Cyot

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Clint
<BR>I don't know what your smokin but it defiantly ain't good for ya.
<BR>just an observation from
<BR>Crazy Cyot</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_99.1f7b6d8c.295c24d6_boundary--

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 05:25:00 -0800
From: Rick Guglielmi <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Horse packing

Since my original question on the types of packsaddles (aparejo and
sawbucks and how they were packed) there has been some good discusion on
this and other horse equiptment.  I have had some technical difficulties in
the use of the "List" which has delayed my response and ability to join in
on the sicussion.  Hopefully I will be able to respond in a more timely
manner directly to each response.

Gretchen Ormond asked me the question were I saw period depictions of the
use of a aparejo.  I did not mean to imply that the pictures I have
seen  of an aparejo were first hand drawings of this sadle and its
use.  The pictures and drawings were in a 1989 article in western horseman
and a drawing in the "Mountain Man Sketch Book by Hanson.  Looking at those
pictures I was uncertain on how these would be packed.  Reading the
descripton by Ruxton on packing an aparejo I am still a little confused on
this.  My ques is that the losd is somehow tied on using a sling type rope
and them secured more with possibley a diamond type hitch????

After reading Clay Landry's response on sawbuck or American saddle I
remembered an article awhile back in Muzzleloader on "packsaddles of the
Rocky Mountain Fur Trade".  The writer used writen descriptions, surviving
specimens and artictic representations.  His conclusion pretty much showed
a sawbuck useing a crupper, some with some without a breast collar.  Given
my experience packing horses and mules in steep country I would saw a
crupper and breast collar neccessary to safely carry a load (especially on
my mules).   Cray Cyot's elk packing adventure confirms the problems of not
having a breat collar in steep country.  I even use a crupper on my riding
saddle when I ride my mules.

My best quess on how the sawbuck was loaded reflects what Clay Landry
stated that the Basket and barrel hitch were used, with some use of pack
bags (panniers).  Using sling ropes to tie on a load is much more versitle
requires only a good rope and sometype of blanket, hide or canvas cover to
build a load before tying on the animal.

Now on that thought as the fur brigades starated out from the settlements
and forts with the many trade goods and other items heading for the
mountains what would these loads be wrapped in?

Thanks for providing the discussion, thoughts and referances to understand
the ways of the mountaineers use of his horses and mules.

Rick



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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 07:43:54 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification

> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

- --MS_Mac_OE_3092283835_122123_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Crazy,
I think this gentelmen needs help (medication) he talks out of both sides of
his mouth or which ever way the wind blows. If he had some knowledge to add
he has destroyed his chance of sharing it due to his attitude. I use to have
a Brother in Law like him and if his lips were mooving  he was lying.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 12:16 AM


Clint
I don't know what your smokin but it defiantly ain't good for ya.
just an observation from
Crazy Cyot

- --MS_Mac_OE_3092283835_122123_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: clarification</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
Crazy,<BR>
I think this gentelmen needs help (medication) he talks out of both sides o=
f his mouth or which ever way the wind blows. If he had some knowledge to ad=
d he has destroyed his chance of sharing it due to his attitude. I use to ha=
ve a Brother in Law like him and if his lips were mooving  he was lying=
.<BR>
YMOS<BR>
Ole # 718 <BR>
- ----------<BR>
From: [e-mail]<BR>
To: [e-mail]<BR>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification<BR>
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 12:16 AM<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Clint <BR>
I don't know what your smokin but it defiantly ain't good for ya. <BR>
just an observation from <BR>
Crazy Cyot</FONT> <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>

- --MS_Mac_OE_3092283835_122123_MIME_Part--


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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 07:58:30 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horse packing

Rick,
I was looking through Millers field sketches and saw a drawing of a mule
with a saw buck style pack saddle. The rigging was not detailed but this
shows they were used.I also would mention that the type of sinch strap that
we use is made from Cotten or Nylon which slides easily but the type used
during the fur trade was made from Horse Hair and does not slide easily. I
had a Horse Hair synch and found that it acted like Velcro on the Horses
belly.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: Rick Guglielmi <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: Horse packing
>Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 6:25 AM
>

>Since my original question on the types of packsaddles (aparejo and
>sawbucks and how they were packed) there has been some good discusion on
>this and other horse equiptment.  I have had some technical difficulties in
>the use of the "List" which has delayed my response and ability to join in
>on the sicussion.  Hopefully I will be able to respond in a more timely
>manner directly to each response.
>
>Gretchen Ormond asked me the question were I saw period depictions of the
>use of a aparejo.  I did not mean to imply that the pictures I have
>seen  of an aparejo were first hand drawings of this sadle and its
>use.  The pictures and drawings were in a 1989 article in western horseman
>and a drawing in the "Mountain Man Sketch Book by Hanson.  Looking at those
>pictures I was uncertain on how these would be packed.  Reading the
>descripton by Ruxton on packing an aparejo I am still a little confused on
>this.  My ques is that the losd is somehow tied on using a sling type rope
>and them secured more with possibley a diamond type hitch????
>
>After reading Clay Landry's response on sawbuck or American saddle I
>remembered an article awhile back in Muzzleloader on "packsaddles of the
>Rocky Mountain Fur Trade".  The writer used writen descriptions, surviving
>specimens and artictic representations.  His conclusion pretty much showed
>a sawbuck useing a crupper, some with some without a breast collar.  Given
>my experience packing horses and mules in steep country I would saw a
>crupper and breast collar neccessary to safely carry a load (especially on
>my mules).   Cray Cyot's elk packing adventure confirms the problems of not
>having a breat collar in steep country.  I even use a crupper on my riding
>saddle when I ride my mules.
>
>My best quess on how the sawbuck was loaded reflects what Clay Landry
>stated that the Basket and barrel hitch were used, with some use of pack
>bags (panniers).  Using sling ropes to tie on a load is much more versitle
>requires only a good rope and sometype of blanket, hide or canvas cover to
>build a load before tying on the animal.
>
>Now on that thought as the fur brigades starated out from the settlements
>and forts with the many trade goods and other items heading for the
>mountains what would these loads be wrapped in?
>
>Thanks for providing the discussion, thoughts and referances to understand
>the ways of the mountaineers use of his horses and mules.
>
>Rick
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:19:06 -0600
From: "Paul W Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Re: MtMan-List: clarificationOle,

Sorry to bother you, but your reply and that of Crazy were on point as =
to Clint, whoever he may be, and as I have been off-list for several =
weeks, I am mildly curious as to whether I may have missed earlier =
(interesting--read that as in Riply's Believe it or Not??) missives from =
Clint.  Life's a bitch sometimes.=20

Is he now or has he heretofore been a member of the AMM?  Or heaven =
forbid, is he, by chance, now or has he heretofore been "an associate =
member" by the simple act of paying for a subscription to the T&LR?  =
There are far too many "associates" running loose spreading the word of =
their purported membership, and Clint walks and talks like some of those =
ducks, so ......

I was struck by several of his comments.  Are you a "fraternal =
elitetist?"  Are you one of the AMM Brothers who might "post under =
different names" or one of the following: "Federal wildlife or F.B.I =
agents, or just wives whom are interested or want to talk with the AMM =
brothers.."  Makes you want to look over your shoulder doesn't it.

Please tell me that this in not  the same fellow about whom I got =
several calls recently who was spreading the ridiculous (read that =
bold-faced lie) story of some Brother in North, Texas, who first wired =
down a squirrel, then shot it, and thereafter brain-tanned the
skin.  On the other hand, I think I would like to meet any man who could =
hold down a squirrel and wire it down, as I have met few men with lots =
and lots of little-bitty bite marks all over their bodies.

Anyway, who ever this fellow may be, secret agent man or otherwise, he =
surely made my morning and makes me glad I was able to get back on the =
list before I missed any more really neat commentary and such.

Ole, you take very much care and have a safe and happy new year (that =
goes to one and all on this list as well, even secret agent man or is he =
someone's wife who just wants to talk).

Regards,

Pablo, #A1525, a non-elitist member of a genuine Brotherhood


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Ole B. Jensen=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:43 AM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification


  Crazy,
  I think this gentelmen needs help (medication) he talks out of both =
sides of his mouth or which ever way the wind blows. If he had some =
knowledge to add he has destroyed his chance of sharing it due to his =
attitude. I use to have a Brother in Law like him and if his lips were =
mooving  he was lying.
  YMOS
  Ole # 718=20
  ----------
  From: [e-mail]
  To: [e-mail]
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification
  Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 12:16 AM



    Clint=20
    I don't know what your smokin but it defiantly ain't good for ya.=20
    just an observation from=20
    Crazy Cyot=20


- ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C18EB7.88689840
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: clarification</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Ole,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Sorry to bother you, but your reply and that =
of Crazy=20
were on point as to Clint, whoever he may be, and as I =
have</STRONG></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2><STRONG> been off-list for several weeks, I am mildly curious =
as to=20
whether I may have missed earlier (interesting--read that as in =
Riply's=20
Believe it or Not??) missives from Clint.  Life's a bitch=20
sometimes. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Is he now or has he heretofore been a member =
of the=20
AMM?  Or heaven forbid, is he, by chance, now or has he =
heretofore=20
been "an associate member" by the simple act of paying for a =
subscription to the=20
T&LR?  There are far too many "associates" running loose =
spreading the=20
word of their purported membership, and Clint walks and talks like some =
of those=20
ducks, so ......</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>I was struck by several of his =
comments.  Are you=20
a "fraternal </STRONG></FONT><STRONG><FONT =
size=3D2>elitetist?"  Are you=20
one of the AMM Brothers who might =
"</FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT=20
size=3D2>post under different names" or one of the following: "Federal =
wildlife=20
or F.B.I agents, or just wives whom are interested or want to =
talk=20
with the AMM brothers.."  Makes you want to look over your shoulder =
doesn't=20
it.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Please tell me that this in not  the =
same fellow=20
about whom I got several calls recently who was spreading the =
ridiculous=20
(read that bold-faced lie) story of some Brother in North, Texas, who =
first=20
wired down a squirrel, then shot it, and thereafter brain-tanned=20
the</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>skin.  On the other hand, I think I =
would like to=20
meet any man who could hold down a squirrel and wire it down, as I have =
met few=20
men with lots and lots of little-bitty bite marks all over their=20
bodies.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Anyway, who ever this fellow may be, secret =
agent man=20
or otherwise, he surely made my morning and makes me glad I was able to =
get back=20
on the list before I missed any more really neat commentary and=20
such.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Ole, you take very much care and have a safe =
and happy=20
new year (that goes to one and all on this list as well, even secret =
agent man=20
or is he someone's wife who just wants to talk).</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Regards,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Pablo, #A1525, a non-elitist member of a =
genuine=20
Brotherhood</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>Ole=20
  B. Jensen</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 27, =
2001 8:43=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List:=20
  clarification</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Crazy,<BR>I think this gentelmen needs help =
(medication) he=20
  talks out of both sides of his mouth or which ever way the wind blows. =
If he=20
  had some knowledge to add he has destroyed his chance of sharing it =
due to his=20
  attitude. I use to have a Brother in Law like him and if his lips were =
mooving=20
   he was lying.<BR>YMOS<BR>Ole # 718 <BR>----------<BR>From:=20
  [e-mail]<BR>To: [e-mail]<BR>Subject: Re: =

  MtMan-List: clarification<BR>Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 12:16 =
AM<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D2>Clint <BR>I don't know what your smokin but =
it=20
    defiantly ain't good for ya. <BR>just an observation from <BR>Crazy=20
    Cyot</FONT> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01C18EB7.88689840--


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:37:21 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification

> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

- --MS_Mac_OE_3092290642_183261_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Paul,
The man is a "Twit" he is not on any list that I have, writen or Data-Base.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
From: "Paul W Jones" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 8:19 AM


Ole,

Sorry to bother you, but your reply and that of Crazy were on point as to
Clint, whoever he may be, and as I have been off-list for several weeks, I
am mildly curious as to whether I may have missed earlier (interesting--read
that as in Riply's Believe it or Not??) missives from Clint.  Life's a bitch
sometimes.

Is he now or has he heretofore been a member of the AMM?  Or heaven forbid,
is he, by chance, now or has he heretofore been "an associate member" by the
simple act of paying for a subscription to the T&LR?  There are far too many
"associates" running loose spreading the word of their purported membership,
and Clint walks and talks like some of those ducks, so ......

I was struck by several of his comments.  Are you a "fraternal elitetist?"
Are you one of the AMM Brothers who might "post under different names" or
one of the following: "Federal wildlife or F.B.I agents, or just wives whom
are interested or want to talk with the AMM brothers.."  Makes you want to
look over your shoulder doesn't it.

Please tell me that this in not  the same fellow about whom I got several
calls recently who was spreading the ridiculous (read that bold-faced lie)
story of some Brother in North, Texas, who first wired down a squirrel, then
shot it, and thereafter brain-tanned the
skin.  On the other hand, I think I would like to meet any man who could
hold down a squirrel and wire it down, as I have met few men with lots and
lots of little-bitty bite marks all over their bodies.

Anyway, who ever this fellow may be, secret agent man or otherwise, he
surely made my morning and makes me glad I was able to get back on the list
before I missed any more really neat commentary and such.

Ole, you take very much care and have a safe and happy new year (that goes
to one and all on this list as well, even secret agent man or is he
someone's wife who just wants to talk).

Regards,

Pablo, #A1525, a non-elitist member of a genuine Brotherhood


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ole B. Jensen <mailto:[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification

Crazy,
I think this gentelmen needs help (medication) he talks out of both sides of
his mouth or which ever way the wind blows. If he had some knowledge to add
he has destroyed his chance of sharing it due to his attitude. I use to have
a Brother in Law like him and if his lips were mooving  he was lying.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 12:16 AM


Clint
I don't know what your smokin but it defiantly ain't good for ya.
just an observation from
Crazy Cyot


- --MS_Mac_OE_3092290642_183261_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: clarification</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
Paul,<BR>
The man is a "Twit" he is not on any list that I have, writen or =
Data-Base.<BR>
YMOS<BR>
Ole # 718<BR>
- ----------<BR>
From: "Paul W Jones" <[e-mail]><BR>
To: <[e-mail]><BR>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification<BR>
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 8:19 AM<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><H5>Ole,<BR>
</H5> <BR>
<H5>Sorry to bother you, but your reply and that of Crazy were on point as =
to Clint, whoever he may be, and as I have been off-list for several weeks, =
I am mildly curious as to whether I may have missed earlier (interesting--re=
ad that as in Riply's Believe it or Not??) missives from Clint.  Life's=
 a bitch sometimes. <BR>
</H5> <BR>
<H5>Is he now or has he heretofore been a member of the AMM?  Or heave=
n forbid, is he, by chance, now or has he heretofore been "an associate=
 member" by the simple act of paying for a subscription to the T&LR=
?  There are far too many "associates" running loose spreadin=
g the word of their purported membership, and Clint walks and talks like som=
e of those ducks, so ......<BR>
</H5> <BR>
<H5>I was struck by several of his comments.  Are you a "fraterna=
l elitetist?"  Are you one of the AMM Brothers who might "pos=
t under different names" or one of the following: "Federal wildlif=
e or F.B.I agents, or just wives whom are interested or want to talk with th=
e AMM brothers.."  Makes you want to look over your shoulder doesn=
't it.<BR>
</H5> <BR>
<H5>Please tell me that this in not  the same fellow about whom I got =
several calls recently who was spreading the ridiculous (read that bold-face=
d lie) story of some Brother in North, Texas, who first wired down a squirre=
l, then shot it, and thereafter brain-tanned the<BR>
skin.  On the other hand, I think I would like to meet any man who cou=
ld hold down a squirrel and wire it down, as I have met few men with lots an=
d lots of little-bitty bite marks all over their bodies.<BR>
</H5> <BR>
<H5>Anyway, who ever this fellow may be, secret agent man or otherwise, he =
surely made my morning and makes me glad I was able to get back on the list =
before I missed any more really neat commentary and such.<BR>
</H5> <BR>
<H5>Ole, you take very much care and have a safe and happy new year (that g=
oes to one and all on this list as well, even secret agent man or is he some=
one's wife who just wants to talk).<BR>
</H5> <BR>
<H5>Regards,<BR>
</H5> <BR>
<H5>Pablo, #A1525, a non-elitist member of a genuine Brotherhood<BR>
</H5> <BR>
 <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<B>From:</B> Ole B. Jensen <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>mailto:olebjensen@e=
arthlink.net</U></FONT>>  <BR>
<B>To:</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT>=
 <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>mailto:[e-mail]</U></FONT>=
>  <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:43 AM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: clarification<BR>
<BR>
Crazy,<BR>
I think this gentelmen needs help (medication) he talks out of both sides o=
f his mouth or which ever way the wind blows. If he had some knowledge to ad=
d he has destroyed his chance of sharing it due to his attitude. I use to ha=
ve a Brother in Law like him and if his lips were mooving  he was lying=
.<BR>
YMOS<BR>
Ole # 718 <BR>
- ----------<BR>
From: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]<BR>
</U></FONT>To: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]<BR>
</U></FONT>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clarification<BR>
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 12:16 AM<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Clint <BR>
I don't know what your smokin but it defiantly ain't good for ya. <BR>
just an observation from <BR>
Crazy Cyot</FONT> <BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:13:43 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: COMPROMISES- the truth is gonna hurt

In a message dated 12/26/2001 3:11:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< an interesting thing about e-mail is that we become EQUALS IN CYBERSPACE
(despite ignorance and knowledge which the later shows). >>

Clint, I'm thinking the ignorance is showing as well...

 << despite the non members and members whom post on this site, any one can
be here.  there can be AMM brothers whom post under different names... i am
also brothers with AMM members>>

YEAH, RIGHT.  You'll have to excuse me for a minute as I'm looking for my
hip-waders 'cuz it's getting WAY TOO DEEP in here

Barney

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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 14:03:16 -0500
From: "John Hunt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: wanna be

    I want to reply  about the clint garret mess. I have been a guest in
several AMM camps here in the east. Know quite a few members in the tri
state area. Several camps have been at public affairs. There is always
several people who come along and try to spout their knowledge of the fur
trade. Just stand and listen. In less than 5 minutes you know their full of
shit or are seriously dumb. the nice ones are just misinformed and usually
welcome the chance to correct their mistaken knowledge.

    The amm brothers I have stood by try to inform the public and try
politely to correct the know-it-alls. Their is a wealth of information that
one can learn from just a few minutes of talking to an amm member or
members.

    Clint, I would like to suggest if possible try to attend an amm
encampment event where  it is open to the public and just listen. Lots of
the members do public events just to educate the people who are smart
enought to listen and learn. Don`t come off as you know everything.

    I am not an amm member, just friends with quite a few. I have yet to
leave an encampment without taking some of the hard learned knowledge home
with me. Have learned several skills from them.

John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
longhunter
mountainman
Southwest, Ohio


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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 16:50:45 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wanna be

John,
Thank You!. Most AMM members are also involved with other groups and with
Rendezvous, we don't mind sharing teaching or learning but we hate name
dropping wanta B's.
Happy New Year to you and youre family.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: "John Hunt" <[e-mail]>
>To: "AMM discussion" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: MtMan-List: wanna be
>Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2001, 12:03 PM
>

>    I want to reply  about the clint garret mess. I have been a guest in
>several AMM camps here in the east. Know quite a few members in the tri
>state area. Several camps have been at public affairs. There is always
>several people who come along and try to spout their knowledge of the fur
>trade. Just stand and listen. In less than 5 minutes you know their full of
>shit or are seriously dumb. the nice ones are just misinformed and usually
>welcome the chance to correct their mistaken knowledge.
>
>    The amm brothers I have stood by try to inform the public and try
>politely to correct the know-it-alls. Their is a wealth of information that
>one can learn from just a few minutes of talking to an amm member or
>members.
>
>    Clint, I would like to suggest if possible try to attend an amm
>encampment event where  it is open to the public and just listen. Lots of
>the members do public events just to educate the people who are smart
>enought to listen and learn. Don`t come off as you know everything.
>
>    I am not an amm member, just friends with quite a few. I have yet to
>leave an encampment without taking some of the hard learned knowledge home
>with me. Have learned several skills from them.
>
>John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
>longhunter
>mountainman
>Southwest, Ohio
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 00:08:47 +0000
From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Dogs in camp

Howdy fellas,
  Ferris writes in "Life in the Rocky Mountains" pp. 130 about an incident
facetiously termed "Milman's Defeat" and I quote,"....calculating the
probable sum total of dollars he (Milman)should accumulate from the sale of
furs he proposed taking from his traps that morning, his dog suddenly
commenced barking at some invisible object which he supposed to be a
squirrel,badger,or some other small animal, that had taken refuge in its
burrow. Satisfied of his own sagacity in arriving at this conclusion,he
advanced thoughtlessly,until he reached the top of a gently ascending knoll,
whence, to his utter astonishment and dismay,he discovered the heads of
seven or eight Indians, peeping ferociously up from a patch of sage, not
thirty steps beyond him,and at the same instant three guns were fited at
him, by way of introduction."
  Turns out he lived through this excitement, he should have listened to his
dog more attentively.
  Your friend,
  Don Secondine


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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 19:43:09 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wanna be

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hunt" <[e-mail]>
To: "AMM discussion" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 12:03 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: wanna be


>     I want to reply  about the clint garret mess. I have been a guest in
> several AMM camps here in the east. Know quite a few members in the tri
> state area. Several camps have been at public affairs. There is always
> several people who come along and try to spout their knowledge of the fur
> trade. Just stand and listen. In less than 5 minutes you know their full
of
> shit or are seriously dumb. the nice ones are just misinformed and usually
> welcome the chance to correct their mistaken knowledge.
>
>     The amm brothers I have stood by try to inform the public and try
> politely to correct the know-it-alls. Their is a wealth of information
that
> one can learn from just a few minutes of talking to an amm member or
> members.
>
>     Clint, I would like to suggest if possible try to attend an amm
> encampment event where  it is open to the public and just listen. Lots of
> the members do public events just to educate the people who are smart
> enought to listen and learn. Don`t come off as you know everything.
>
>     I am not an amm member, just friends with quite a few. I have yet to
> leave an encampment without taking some of the hard learned knowledge home
> with me. Have learned several skills from them.
>
> John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
> longhunter
> mountainman
> Southwest, Ohio
> --------------------------------------------

John,

We don't see you that much on the list, but when you speak your very good at
setting things straight. We need more like yourself that listen to credible
information, use common sense and weight that information. Like you have
stated some just talk to hear themselves talk and talk loud enough to try
and drown out what others are trying to correct in their verbiage.

I am AMM and have been for sometime, have been involved in this sport
(living history) for longer than many have been on the ground, since 1955 I
have seen folks come and go, many leave because of the loud mouths, others
find something else better to their liking, but for most part an AMM member
stays for life. Hell many stay longer with the AMM than they do with their
jobs, or spouses.  Only kidding brothers (know I'll check hell for that one
from the brotherhood). <GG>.

To make a long story short, I find I learn or re-learn something every time
I'm on the ground with the AMM and it's because like John says, "Their is a
wealth of information that one can learn from just a few minutes of talking
to an amm member or members".

Thank you for your time.

Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party - Colorado Territory



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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 20:46:44 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: my last word on Clint Garrett

A trusted friend and AMM brother from Montana told me today that neither he
nor anybody in his group knows anybody named Clint Garrett, in spite of
several oblique references by Clint Garrett to his being in or from that
state.  Somehow this doesn't surprise me.
I don't know who Clint Garrett is and I am past caring.  Further posts by or
about him will be summarily deleted unread.
I'm done
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]


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