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hist_text-digest     Wednesday, December 19 2001     Volume 01 : Number 908



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Canvas
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:buck---glad to have you back
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Canvas
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Canvas
-áááááá MtMan-List: explanation and apology
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo kill........
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Writers & Documentation
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:buck---glad to have you back
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: AGE, DAMP PREVENTION, AND WHAT THEY DID.
-áááááá MtMan-List: thanks capt.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Canvas
-áááááá re: MtMan-List: Brass parts? Dare I ask?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: thanks capt.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Off topic question to listowner or moderator
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Brass Parts-$.02 Worth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: explanation and apology

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:04:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Clint Garrett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas

"Very well stated, I wish I had a nickle for every
> time
> I thought I had everything right/correct then
> tomorrow
> came when additional RESEARCH  pointed out the
> errors in my thinking.  We must keep an open mind,
> and simply keep digging.  I will not live long
> enough
> to learn all the answers, but I am sure going to
> work
> at it while I can. "

SOUNDS GOOD AND EMPIRICAL TO ME NO ARGUMENT WITH YOUR
STAND, GOOD REPLY MR. WEBB.
>

> "Apparently this gentleman believes what
> some of today's writers
> put
> > down
> > years ago as being documented  and correct (when
> it's a combination
> > of their
> > ideas and others), there are those that write to
> just sell their
> > wares, then
> > there are those that state documented proof
> w/references of what
> > they are
> > writing about"

EVIDENTLY, MY MEANING IS MISUNDERSTOOD; I EXCEPT WITH
90% CERTAINTY THAT MUCH OF THE DOCOMENTATION IS
CORRECT.  WHAT I QUESTION IS THE 'LACK OF READING
BETWEEN THE LINES' IN OUR ENDEAVOR AND PURSUIT OF
AUTHENTICTY.  FOR EXAMPLE:

about '82' i was at Marlis's parents house and Baker
was talking about going beaver trappin primative.  he
said the weight of the trap alone would drown a beav.
well being my first year at trapping beaver i soon
learned even though i was trappin modern/commercially
that kits could be taken SOME TIMES with the weight of
the trap{tangle stakes or other methods); but when an
adult drags a heavy concrete block or tractor part
back to the bank of 35-40 lbs you know someone yarned
the writer of 'Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the
Mountain Men??/Fur Trade'?? You will have to forgive
me on this title confusion, yet i think we all have
seen the book.  This conversation between Baker and I
had it's core beleif for Baker in that book.  mine
came from my experience and the wisdom of the state
trapper whom taught me; also a writer of "Trapper
Journal".

, "the gentleman he refers to was
> known for poor
> > documentation
> > in the early 1980's (he was learning his trade at
> that time, many of
> > us
> > remember how he thought a TC Hawkin was close to a
> weapon of choice"

yes, i remember him shooting the same gun with the
'tacked cross'.

ANY time one seeks to lead what he deems to be lessor
men than himself and sets himself up as a cultural
icon and mentor he receives both praise, exaltation,
and critisism.  So we are not slandering Mark A. Baker
yet glorifying his accomplishments and 'refining' if
not 'tempering his metal' of his knowledge and quest
for par excellance in the black powder related arts.


> > after a few butt chewing about this and other
> misleading statements
> > made in
> > the very early years of his wonderings, he has got
> down to "covering
> > his
> > tracks" with good documentation, honing his
> woodsman skills, getting
> > out on
> > the ground (writing included) to what we have
> today, a pretty damn
> > good
> > woodsman, writer and personal friend."

AS Mark is a Guru of 'Skinning' for most at one time
or another, it must be remembered that it was not only
the 80's in which he was ignorant and fallible but
just like the Capt. who posts on this site said with
the backing of his expertise in Fire fighting Mark
still has problems in the research area in regards to
the rotting effect/deteriation of his oil cloth.
                                             another
example is from a local i met at Chadron at the museum
where i did a 'sobriety ride' in '95' with the
oglalla.  he pointed out to me that Mark's article
around that time on 'rendering fat' was totally
worthless in accuracy.  this was a museum local from a
farming community.
   the point even if Baker is a God-like father to
some, like Arnold is to bodybuilding, he still makes
ignorant mistakes from time to time like all of us.
yet 90% of what he researches is most likely accurate.

> > "research is Mike Moore, seen by his last post -
> his journey started
> > with an
> > interest, research and then writing. Mike will
> tell you the RESEARCH
> > never
> > ends and what you found today as being the way it
> was, could change
> > tomorrow
> > because of more RESEARCH."
> >
> > "Sorry for the lengthy rambling members."

I LIKE your objectivity and openess to knowledge.  as
far as the ramblings go i see it more as like the
nessasary 'heat' we put on a subject to melt the
'lead' of the matter.  where else can we get the
bullets of accuracy?

by the way, i'm glad you are a freind of Bakers, he
needs some to curb his ego from time to time like i
also need the same.
> >


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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:16:51 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:buck---glad to have you back

still the same old grouchy crotchey person as ever on this end---hard to
change--getting too old

Glad to see you back in circulation pard---just made it home from the
annual treck to make winter meat---filled all my taggs---2 bucks and 2
does all with ML---3 with the new underhammers---got a nice 8 point
thanksgiving day and filled my last ticket----if you need anything give
me a shout---

nuff said---

    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce        "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line "  trademark (C)
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor florida 34684        Phone Number:  1-727-771-1815
E-Mail: [e-mail]   Web site:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:32:34 -0700 "BARRY CONNER"
<[e-mail]> writes:
> Hawk you old fa.....  how are you, good health I hope.
>
> Take care,
> Buck Conner
> "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771
>.
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:45:54 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
To: "Hist mail" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 3:18 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Canvas


> I have tried to find some evidence of canvas or some such documentation
> in bedding to no avail.  On a horse trip with the Poison River Party in
> 99 I slept on blankets alone...........

When available pine limbs, long grass or leaves work better then just laying
on the bare ground, Osborn Russell had it easier with the waste of game
animals for their hides to lay on, look at the buffalo he writes about
shooting for a little meat and a heavy hide to use for the night, no wonder
the locals (Indians) wanted to kick his butt or better yet kill him.

> Here is Ruxton's commentary:
> We ourselves suffered extremely, turning constantly, and rolling almost
> into the embers of the scanty fire; and towards daybreak I really
> thought I should have frozen bodily. ......

and for those that think you won't do damage, Thanksgiving a year ago on an
outing it dipped down in the sub teens -05 to -10, we where in a wedge tent,
with ground cloth and several blankets each. My toes started to go numb and
then burn, had two pair of heavy wool socks on too.  End result today I have
nerve damage at approx. 28-30%, so you can freeze parts as Wynn stated
Ruxton "I should have frozen bodily".

Take care,
Buck Conner

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:03:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Clint Garrett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas

> to give an example to the 'document zealots' the
> > lakota used to use split diamond willow mats to
cover
> > the ground of their tipis; but where is the
> > documentation either in print or art?
>
> How did you find that out. That was supposed to be a
secret amongst
the
> lakota!

Capt. Lahti,
    for documentation purposes of which the university
of which i attended accepts the quotes from
acknowledged authorities as reference worthy of
documentation.  i lived in the tipi of bakers on rapid
creek in '86' while working on the base at ellsworth.
from there i made connections around rapid city where
i met a Wica'sa Wankan from Sharp's corner whom i have
ties with(?!?*#*###).  in '87' i moved to cheyenne
river reservation to trap beavs and learn from the
descendants of the once mighty Lakota.  i provided
choppa ota to the Larabee T'o'spa( forgive spelling
but if you know them you understand the meaning) in
exchange for rent in what was probly the last old
style log home above green grass on the moreau river
downstream from HUGE GLASS's mauling site.
   in the years i have spent with them and returned as
a Lakota(if you understand the word) according to
Walker{author of Lakota Society in the early 1900s) as
well as the way they treat me which says more, i
developed a freindship and bonding with them.
   as far as diamond willow mats being a secret i
doubt it seriously.  it was just something non
observed evidently in any early writings.. when
many(ota) of their people saw my sincerity they shared
a lot of things with me that they wouldn't have
trusted with many of their own relations of today.
you know like pedifiles, drunks, commercial alledged
wica'sa wakan and other 'sell outs' of blood yet not
the 'red road'.  in my experience among them, THEIR
RELIGION  you do not print nor speak too openly about
in regards to the old ways.  it is not the living camp
conditions of which they regarded as secretive
although the ray their culture is under would make  a
novice beleive it was such.

it was a young wica'sa and his aunt who acknowled this
to me upon which i found many elders confirmed.


but I suppose we should not
believe
our
> eyes when we see such lodges in old photos and up on
the Reservation
today.

Not everything can be seen in a photo as the hides are
covering the mats as they did not want the moisture
roting those precious robes.
You are correct in your sarcasm of saying you should
not beleive what is on the reservation today.  that
horse/buffaloe culture is gone, the remnants is all
there is.  the res. system is built on lies and
deceit, to take everything you hear and see as gospel
is like beleiving everything someone released from
prison says.  you have been conned many times if you
take the present reality as the way they were.
>
>  the only
> > trustworthy sources to reference this may be cathy
> > smith or larry belitz; both advisors in 'dances
with
> > wolves'
>
> What did they have to say?

Kathy and Larry know very well much of their culture.
i have not quized either of this.  i left it open to
any of us to do so.  i beleive in their research they
probly know this too.

SECRETIVE ground covers!!!!!!!!!!  someone beleived a
a snow job on them.
>
> .
> >
> > BY THE WAY THE BAYBERRY WAX IS A SEASONAL CANDLE
SOLD
> > DURING CHRISTMAS FOR RELIGIOUS RITUAL.  SO YE CAN
GIT
> > YORE SELF DOWN TO THA LOCAL TRADING POST/ DOLLAR
STORE
> > AND GRAB A FEW.  I'M SURE SOME SKINNER WILL WANT
TO
> > BLEND BEES WAX BAYBERRY WAX, AND TALLOW FOR A WET
> > RESISTANT CANVAS.
>
> Did the trappers only do this around Christmas time
when bay berries
were
> available? Why would some skinner want to add to the
weight of his
shelter

THE point i'm making is if you want BAYBERRY wax the
season is now to get it at a dollar store(on the webb
it's $15.95)this is for those whom also use BEESWAX
and/or tallow on some of their gear.  or if someone
stumbles upon a document whether written or an
interveiw with an acknowledged authority about it's
use.
if you ever hunted in the fall in montana and had your
leanto canvas freeze you would probly want something
that would not do so.  since they moved so often in
trapping mildew and frozzen canvas it would not be
desirable.  oct 10th of bow season it snowed heavy on
me at 8500 ft.  moving that frozen canvas every few
days as they would have to as they trapped along a
tributary would not keep the canvas functional for
long. Capt. you have to remember they did this outdoor
stuff everyday not for only 32 days horsehack as i did
this season or intervals of doins.


__________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:22:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Clint Garrett <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: explanation and apology

MR> RATCLIFF,
    Having taken every composition course in the
English dept. at the last univ. i attended as well as
realizing the inferiority of the English language
based on historical conquests i 'relax and enjoy' in
my e-mails most of the time.  any gibberish is only
FEEBLE IF NOT PLAYFUL attempt to humurously duplicate
the 'fur trade' language.  i realize their are some
aristocratic and prim and proper types of skinners
whom reflect 'old colonial williamsburg' in their
mentality. To my knowledge and intention i have
slandered no one nor intend to.  if i say something
about a person living or in our iconized past i either
know it for a fact, read it, or i'll state it as
probable gossip/conjecture.  all hypotheticly beleived
theorys are stated as such or i lend certain sway
toward my argument which could be fact.
   for your sake and others i'll hold back on the
pseudo improvised fur trade languge.  but please don't
ask me to use grammar and spell check.
    i beleive i hear a very educated and easterner if
not a californian in you as i have caused offense with
you.  none intended however,  i'm only intereseted in
spuring the debate whereby we grasp greater knowledge
and deeper reseach.
   thanks for your input.

> > Clint, my man, your post is very nearly gibberish.
>  The rambling examples
> > you cite are largely a steaming pile of
> mis-information, mild slander and
> > general nonsense.   I could go on, but I won't.
> > Lanney Ratcliff
> > AMM #1585


__________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:33:18 +0000
From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo kill........

Better to have many guns than to have to use many shovels, I reckon.
There was a photographer about 25 yrs. ago that were taking pictures of
buffalo down at the preserve near Lawton, Okla. that got hit by a bull and
it 'bout tore him in half. He went two ways and his camera flew the other.
Buff can be very unpredictable, and they can turn on a dime at full tilt.
Amazing critters.
Waaauuugh!
Don Secondine


>From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo kill........
>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:48:50 -0700
>
>Many guns when we go, usually have 3-4 animals going down at the same time.
>Easier to have each man carry 2 guns than have to carry his busted butt
>out.
><GG>.
>
>Take care,
>Buck Conner
>"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 4:56 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo kill........
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 12/14/01 9:46:57 AM, [e-mail] writes:
> >
> > << NO, NO, NO - don't reload fast yet, when the pressure is on with a
>buffalo
> >
> > running at you full bore, you have more important things to do, like
>taking
> >
> > a second shot with the extra gun you have laying on the ground. >>
> >
> > Haaaaa......you mean ya got more than one gun!!!!!?!
> >
> > Magpie
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:27:45 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Writers & Documentation

Ladies & Gentlemen,

One must remember we all started this life style "new" at one point or
another, some had more "brass" than most and published their thoughts and
ideas, usually with the lack of documentation and sometimes without trying
what they wrote about before publishing.

I could entertain, embarrass and bore you with all the mistakes that a
number of our favorite writers have made over 40 plus years in this sport
(sport - used for a lack of better word).  When called on their mistakes,
quotes, documentation, etc. - most where big enough to admit that they made
a mistake or had not really tried what they had written about, that's a plus
as far as I see it for that writer. There are a few that will not say "oops"
or "yes" - "I screwed up" - funny seems these folks are of like minds and
similar time periods, now doing video's. I have seen Mark Baker write that
he was mistaken in a few issues back in Muzzleloader, that's nice - "brass",
most wouldn't do that to their reading audience.

The best thing one can do is continue to read, research and document for
your persona, discuss with others for their view and share that information
with others.

Hell until I started Clark & Sons Mercantile years ago (those that know me
know I'm not bragging) there wasn't anyone offering or talking about correct
period foods and damn few where carrying anything other than piss poor
parched corn and it wasn't really correct.  That's how this business was
developed, there was a need, no-one supplying and nobody was talking period
edibles.  We even got into uncultured edibles (wild edibles) for the east,
mid-west and west regions, correct period seeds, if it was of the food line
or used in camp we had it.  I was told by the former editor of "On The
Trail" that I was "wasting my time, these guys will eat what they want,
correct or junk food, whatever is the easiest".  I got him to print a few
food articles with the help of Brother AMM member Monsieur LaVelle, (him
being educated and degreed in the field), all of a sudden everyone is
writing about correct edibles, so it goes to say "readers do pay attention".
Sweet making some folks that "know everything" bite their tongues. <GG>.

Like we have said before RESEARCH is the key and share your findings, write
articles, take part in events with your new found knowledge - folks we all
gain with what you know and are willing to share.

Take care,
Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Clint Garrett" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Writers & Documentation
>
> ANY time one seeks to lead what he deems to be lessor
> men than himself and sets himself up as a cultural
> icon and mentor he receives both praise, exaltation,
> and critisism.  So we are not slandering Mark A. Baker
> yet glorifying his accomplishments and 'refining' if
> not 'tempering his metal' of his knowledge and quest
> for par excellance in the black powder related arts.
>
> AS Mark is a Guru of 'Skinning' for most at one time
> or another, it must be remembered that it was not only
> the 80's in which he was ignorant and fallible but
> just like the Capt. who posts on this site said with
> the backing of his expertise in Fire fighting Mark
> still has problems in the research area in regards to
> the rotting effect/deteriation of his oil cloth.
>                                              another
> example is from a local i met at Chadron at the museum
> where i did a 'sobriety ride' in '95' with the
> oglalla.  he pointed out to me that Mark's article
> around that time on 'rendering fat' was totally
> worthless in accuracy.  this was a museum local from a
> farming community.
>    the point even if Baker is a God-like father to
> some, like Arnold is to bodybuilding, he still makes
> ignorant mistakes from time to time like all of us.
> yet 90% of what he researches is most likely accurate.


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:30:02 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:buck---glad to have you back

Hawk,

Glad to hear from you, good shootin' brother, sounds like you got lots of
meat to care for, I'll let you get to it.

Take care,
Buck "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:buck---glad to have you back


> still the same old grouchy crotchey person as ever on this end---hard to
> change--getting too old
>
> Glad to see you back in circulation pard---just made it home from the
> annual treck to make winter meat---filled all my taggs---2 bucks and 2
> does all with ML---3 with the new underhammers---got a nice 8 point
> thanksgiving day and filled my last ticket----if you need anything give
> me a shout---
>
> nuff said---
>
>     "HAWK"
> Michael Pierce        "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line "  trademark (C)
> 854 Glenfield Dr.
> Palm Harbor florida 34684        Phone Number:  1-727-771-1815
> E-Mail: [e-mail]   Web site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
>
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:32:34 -0700 "BARRY CONNER"
> <[e-mail]> writes:
> > Hawk you old fa.....  how are you, good health I hope.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Buck Conner
> > "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771
> >.
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> ----------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:39:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Clint Garrett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AGE, DAMP PREVENTION, AND WHAT THEY DID.

Wynn,
   many of those i know in the non AMM circles of
rendezvous are 'arm chair philosophers' as far as
research and doins goes.  what i mean is that they do
go to rendezvous yet they have only literary knowledge
when it comes to trapping and hunting.  most never
have done both.  as you know in research many times we
come to bridges that are washed out, in that there is
a gap in question.  that is my point, in that we also
have to read between the lines in what and why were
thay doing what is wrote.  the term 'document zealots'
should apply to all of us sometime in that what is
wrote is our foundation on facts.  i myself am a
document zealot at least 80% - 90% of the time, yet i
realize there is always another fur trade mystery to
unravel.  what i was alluding to is those, sometime me
included who are 'fossilized' in what they read, never
going beyound the consensus of the majority oppinion
in regards to filling in gaps.  if you ask i'll cite
examples from research documents.
   otherwise bravo for your efforts to purify and
refine historical and functional knowledge about the
fur trade.
  geez i am always amazed at those whom are overly
sensitive in the quest for knowledge.  perhaps it is
because our mom's and wives have had too much
influence the past century.

__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:58:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Clint Garrett <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: thanks capt.

>
> >
> > I personally know of >
>
> I'm sure we all know stories but we don't air them
> in public. We work within
> to change things for the better.

CAPT.  LAHTI,
     I'll try, try to refrain from anything a non AMM
member or canidate would not understand.  or a problem
that may become a barricade in the future.  in my
citing of those cases i realize that where a majority
is concerned and standards have been lowered a few or
and individual will only be ostrazised, generally.  i
would hope the rootenization of the the past values
will again surface in full.  and i beleive as i
beleive you do, quality in our doings supercedes the
quanity of our numbers.  thank you for your
correction, no wonder your a capitan.>
>
>
> If your not picking on someone then what is up? Your
> on a terror for some
> reason.

IF you and i personably knew each other you would
understand where i was coming from.  say around a
compfire or over coffee at mcdonalds for years.  i'll
have to mellow down my responses as evidently my past
religuous backgroud tempered with a zealous
personality whom almost attended law school may be
ruffling the members on this site.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:41:18 -0800
From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas

<for documentation purposes of which the university
of which i attended accepts the quotes from
acknowledged authorities as reference worthy of
documentation.>

Clint,

I personally think that is a mistake, lest they have something besides their
"learned" opinion to back it up with. It is absolutely amazing the bs that
comes out of our University "authorities" these days with respect to this
country's history. But that is another subject.

I am also skeptical of the "truth" offered by folks who have gotten caught
up in "Indian" culture as learned on today's reservations. But be that as it
may, it is another subject.

As to canvas getting moldy, frozen, wet, having to be moved, etc. that is
your modern experience and while true to that experience, has little if
anything to do with whether such was a practice or problem for the Mt.
Man/fur trapper of the 1800's. As I said, if you want to use canvas and want
to wax it or oil it, by all means do so. If you want to discuss it's
authenticity then I invite you to come up with something besides
speculation. At least acknowledge that it's speculation.

And I will repeat, I enjoy Mark Baker and his writings. But I am not one of
his disciples, just a casual fan of a good writer and hard working
researcher.

> You are correct in your sarcasm of saying you should
> not believe what is on the reservation today.

With respect, I don't think you understood what I was being "gently"
sarcastic about and what I think we should believe.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:41:00 -0600
From: "Ronny Oswalt, Sr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: MtMan-List: Brass parts? Dare I ask?

Yep, methinks you fell in the mud after all.  But if I wuz you I'd try not
to make tracks with all that mud and castor cuz the wimmens group at the
Pentecostal church down the road  are ready to  track down the bad boy that
stole their snakes. Watch yer topnot.

Big Thunder
Grenada, MS


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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:49:52 -0800
From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: thanks capt.

  i'll
> have to mellow down my responses as evidently my past
> religuous backgroud tempered with a zealous
> personality whom almost attended law school may be
> ruffling the members on this site.

Clint,

I'm sure that would help and be appreciated. Thank you for sharing your
thoughts.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'





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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:21:21 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off topic question to listowner or moderator

Dean Rudy is the owner and caretaker, he also manages the AMM site for the
membership of the AMM.  This site is provided out of the kindness of Dean's
efforts to get like mind's together, to share information and ideas as we
have seen in resent posts.  Look what we have learned and shared without all
the baloney that other lists put up with, once in a while we get off the
subject/time frame/period or whatever one likes to refer to the list as, but
mainly we talk fur trade and usually we all have a good feeling when the
topic is finished.

Buck.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 2:10 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Off topic question to listowner or moderator


> <<...seems to think this is his list, >>
>
> I was wondering, who does "own" this list?  One person or a conglomerate
of individuals?  I.E. - who do we thank?
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:51:41 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass Parts-$.02 Worth

I have to agree that aging a gun when it would be new at the time of your
persona doesn't make much sense to me, I do wipe my brass with used shooting
patches for one reason and one reason only - to tone down the brightness and
reflection that you get in bright sunlight.  It will sure show game where
your at or anyone else happening to see the reflection, like in the old
movies when a guy sees the reflection off a scope before he's shot - poor
example, but you get the idea.

I have several F&I and Rev War originals that have survived all this time
and look better than some of the stuff guys are carrying today
(reproductions), if your life and your family's life hinged on the condition
your rifle was in, won't you take care of it ?

Take care,
Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass Parts-$.02 Worth


> In a message dated 12/9/01 8:22:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I don't understand what the deal is with aging brass!
>  If you were alive in the 1820-40 era, and bought a
>  gun, it would be new, and just normal useage will age
>  it to a period correct patina.  >>
>
> I have a real problem with this too Dog!  Doesn't make sense to me to take
a
> nice new rifle & beat the heck out of it with chains & such & smear the
brass
> with old cleaning patches or nut hulls to artificially age 'em.  Maybe
that's
> OK if what the owner wants is a "wall hanger", but I USE my rifles &
figure
> they'll get enough of their scratches, dents & darkened brass honestly.
Like
> Big Thunder said; "Take it beaver trappin' & fall in the mud with it!"  To
my
> way of thinking, there just ain't no substitute for hard use & age to get
> "that look".  One of my rifles is 8 years old & looking just the way I
think
> it should.  Besides, as Dog said, we're reenacting the period when these
guns
> were NEW or just a few years old.  I seriously doubt Crockett, Bridger,
> Boone, Meek or any of the people we try so hard to emulate would buy a gun
> that looked 150 years old.  Another 2 cents for the pot!
>
> NM
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:40:09 -0800
From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: explanation and apology

.
 Clint wrote ;
  i beleive i hear a very educated and easterner if
not a californian in you

>>Clint,
  Take a couple of aspirin.  Lay down for awhile.  I'm quite sure Brother
Lanney Ratcliff, blood descendant of Thomas Jefferson Rusk, will get back to
you on the question of his residence and ancestry.  <VBSEG>

i'm only intereseted in
spuring the debate whereby we grasp greater knowledge
and deeper reseach.
   thanks for your input.

>>That's why all of us are here.  Thus far your posts have been filled with
' name dropping' remarks, very limited quotes of documented fact, and the
spreading of unfounded rumor, not to mention the fact that they are barely
readable.  I strongly suggest you " grasp " some of the
knowledge that many of the list members have already shared with you.
Pendleton
" Freedom has a flavor, the protected will never know . "





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