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hist_text-digest      Saturday, December 15 2001      Volume 01 : Number 904



In this issue:

-áááááá MtMan-List: Dogs in Trapper's camps
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brass parts
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs in Trapper's camps
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dogs in Trapper's camps
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brass parts
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: brass parts
-áááááá MtMan-List: Fremont
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Buffalo kill........
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fremont
-áááááá MtMan-List: One more time- brass parts
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fremont
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fremont
-áááááá MtMan-List: CSMLA
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fremont
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fremont
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: CSMLA

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:29:16 -0700
From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Dogs in Trapper's camps

C.Kent asked about dogs in trappers camp.  There is some stuff in the
archives but I have seen some since.   I recalled one occasion that
Ferris mentioned a small dog and while looking it up I found two
others.  These of course refer to dogs with trappers not the many
mentions when with Indians.

(A wounded trapper came into camp on his wounded mule)
After recovering his wonted control over the faculties of speech, he
gave us the following particulars of the affair, which was ever
afterwards facetiously termed "Milman's Defeat." Whilst jogging along,
three or four miles from camp, and calculating the probable sum total of
dollars he should accumulate from the sales of furs he purposed taking
from his traps that morning, his dog suddenly commenced barking at some
invisible object which he supposed to be a squirrel, badger, or some
other small animal, that had taken refuge in its burrow. Satisfied of
his own sagacity in arriving at this conclusion, he advanced
thoughtlessly, until he reached the top of a gently - ascending knoll,
whence, to his utter astonishment and dismay, he discovered the heads of
seven or eight Indians, peeping ferociously up from a patch of sage, not
thirty steps beyond him, and at the same instant three guns were fired
at him, by way of introduction

(On another occasion)
On the 18th we continued twenty miles up the valley, and saw numbers of
rabbits, which were pursued in various directions by our dogs, as well
as a herd of elk; yet our hunters were unable to kill anything

(This was the one I went looking for.  I believe there were three
trappers with one out checking traps when their camp is overrun by
unwelcome guests.  The trappers removed themselves and. . . .)
Fortunately for us, the Indians had mistaken the course of our flight,
and were some distance below, when we entered the open plain; but they
quickly discovered us, and gave chase, as we penetrated the forest;
finding that the timber continued we pushed forward, and at length crept
into a dense thicket, hoping to elude them thus, but we were again
discovered by the barking of a little dog with us, and forced to seek
another place to hide in; we finally halted in a dark shadowed thicket,
and choaked the dog to silence


Hope this help
Wynn Ormond



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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:02:21 +0000
From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brass parts

Howdy fellows,
  Let's kick this dead horse and see if he'll gallop.
To each his own method, whatever works for ya.
Don



>From: Charlie Webb <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brass parts
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:22:51 -0700
>
>Hi Buck,
>Your post is nearly vertbatum to my original
>post.  The other stuff  mentioned does work,
>but why go out and buy something when you
>already can achieve the same end result with a
>fouled/dirty cleaning patch.  As Hawk would
>say, nuff said!
>Take care,
>Old Coyote
>
>
>
>
>Hey Charlie,
>
>Why are you guys messing with all these different things to age brass
>when your shooting black powder, use your dirty wet cleaning patches and
>wipe the brass to the appearance you want, wipe it enough and it will get
>close to black, plus it stays on. This is an old method that I saw and
>was told about thirty years ago in one of Turner Kirkland's old Dixie Gun
>Works catalogs.
>
>Take care,
>Buck Conner
>
>"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771




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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:00:43 -0800
From: "Lee Newbill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs in Trapper's camps

> Wynn Ormond did write....
>  but we were again
> discovered by the barking of a little dog with us, and forced to seek
> another place to hide in; we finally halted in a dark shadowed thicket,
> and choaked the dog to silence

And that is why, I'm guessing, most folks operationg in small numbers in
hostile country didna have a doggie.  Chasing off game and alerting the
Blackfeet.

Regards from Idaho

Lee





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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:19:25 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dogs in Trapper's camps

Wynn,


Thanks for the input on dogs...and that last tidbit gave me a NEW idea for
when the pooch insists on barking for not other reason than to test his vocal
chords at 2 a.m.!!!
Of course I would not kill him, just give him the "Bart Simpson" throttling
till he quieted up!!! <VBG>

- -C.Kent

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:32:34 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brass parts

Hawk you old fa.....  how are you, good health I hope.

Take care,
Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brass parts


> TOF
> not the correct response---he isnt asking you about your personal
> preferences if he was he would have directed it in that way---
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:53:59 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brass parts

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C18535.45D607A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Charlie, I came in on the tail end of the discussion, are you =
guys still having problems with seasons for the CSMLA ?

Take care,
Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Charlie Webb=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 4:22 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brass parts


  Hi Buck,
  Your post is nearly vertbatum to my original
  post.  The other stuff  mentioned does work,
  but why go out and buy something when you=20
  already can achieve the same end result with a
  fouled/dirty cleaning patch.  As Hawk would=20
  say, nuff said!
  Take care,
  Old Coyote

- ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C18535.45D607A0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bottomMargin=3D0 bgColor=3D#ffffff leftMargin=3D3 topMargin=3D0 =
rightMargin=3D3>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Thanks Charlie, I came in on the =
tail end of=20
the discussion, are you guys still having problems with seasons for the =
CSMLA=20
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Take care,<BR>Buck =
Conner</FONT><BR><EM><FONT=20
size=3D1>"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas =
Jefferson=20
1771</FONT></EM></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Charlie Webb</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 14, 2001 =
4:22=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: brass=20
parts</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Hi Buck,</DIV>
  <DIV>Your post is nearly vertbatum to my original</DIV>
  <DIV>post.  The other stuff  mentioned does work,</DIV>
  <DIV>but why go out and buy something when you </DIV>
  <DIV>already can achieve the same end result with a</DIV>
  <DIV>fouled/dirty cleaning patch.  As Hawk would </DIV>
  <DIV>say, nuff said!</DIV>
  <DIV>Take care,</DIV>
  <DIV>Old Coyote</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C18535.45D607A0--


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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:09:03 +0000
From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fremont

Howdy fellows,
  For those interested in Mountain Men both Delawares and whites, I found
Freemont's Memoirs on-line. Maybe Dean could add this to the library on the
Mountain Man Page. Here's the URL:

      http://moa.umdl.umich.edu/cgi/sgml/moa-idx?notisid=AAZ9580
Enjoy the read,
Don Secondine in the Ohio Country



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:01:23 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Buffalo kill........

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitch Post" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:45 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Buffalo kill........
> If you think it's easy to stand real close to an entire herd of
> buffalo(approx. 100hd),obviously you've never done it.
> 'Nuff said....

Does get your attention with watching the one your shooting and it's friends
watching you.

> I've not done much shooting in this
> part of the country yet-I'm used to hunting in
> Montana..LOTS dryer. I'd appreciate any input
> you might have-or anyone else that has something
> constructive to add-I'm using a patched .595ball,85gr
> 3f Goex.
>   Got the big,nasty bull to kill soon.......
>  Mitch

Where are you use to shooting at in MT and where did you take this animal
being dryer ?

As far as your combination, that will kill anything that needs it just fine,
ball placement is where it's at, always has been and always will be, know
your gun.  The conditions you normally shoot at and where you did this
shooting may have affected your results also.  I hunt and shoot at a mile
high and when I go east down around Ft. de Chartre ILL my weapons work
totally different - ignition, sighting and so on.

Take care,
Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771


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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:02:02 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fremont

Hey Don,

Have you heard from Ken Wee lately ?

Take care,
Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 9:09 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Fremont


> Howdy fellows,
>   For those interested in Mountain Men both Delawares and whites, I found
> Freemont's Memoirs on-line. Maybe Dean could add this to the library on
the
> Mountain Man Page. Here's the URL:
>
>       http://moa.umdl.umich.edu/cgi/sgml/moa-idx?notisid=AAZ9580
> Enjoy the read,
> Don Secondine in the Ohio Country
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:52:31 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: One more time- brass parts

Hey Dave,

Been awhile since I've been on the list, just retired and thought would see
what's going on - now with some free time.  I agree with you on making the
brass dark or black, I use the patches after shooting to tone down the brass
(mellow yellow), bright brass will sure give your location to game animals
or any other animal when moving about in the woods here in the Rockies.

Take care,
Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brass parts


> I'm glad everyone likes black brass.  It looks like crap, and no original
gun
> I've ever seen has it.  All you are doing is putting a sulfide coating on
it.
>  When brass ages, it acquires a nice mellow, brownish-gold patina through
> normal oxidation.  In other words, it just gets darker and might have a
tinge
> of green in it.    It also shows wear marks from normal usage where your
hand
> or shoulder rubs certain areas.  Any gun with black brass, other than the
> nosecap, is a result of a guy slopping water from the barrel all over the
gun
> when he cleans it.  Aging is an oxide coating, not a sulfide coating.
>
> The traditional way of taking the shine off new brass, mentioned in
several
> period references, was to rub it with green hazelnut hulls.
>
> Dave Kanger
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:13:26 -0500
From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fremont

Buck
 Funny you should mention Mr Wee... He is getting me in trouble in a wee bit
(scuse the pun)... I had a request from "She Who Had Probably Be Obeyed" to
see if I could make some headway in the basement this morning while she was
at work.. All started out fine, until I can across my box with the bow YOU
traded me and a handful of target arrows... Tempted, but had to work....
Then I came across some throw pillows that were slated for the dump, then a
hunk of Styrofoam reared it's ugly head.. I couldn't ressist.. I grabbed all
and headed out the door, tossed the pillows off the hill and the Styrofoam
and have spent until a few minutes ago having a time!.Skewering rogue
pillows and killer Styrofoam..... The Bow is plum. And Gwen will be home in
20 minutes or so.........And it is your fault that I didn't get any work
done..
D


"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty
than to those attending too small a degree of it."
- - Thomas Jefferson




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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:29:21 +0000
From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fremont

He' Buck,
  Good to hear from ya. Lost track for awhile. I see you got a new E- mail
address. No, I haven't found Ken yet. Are you fellas floatin' down the
Missouri to De Chartes  come green up?
Luppitch Knewelch,
Don Secondine


>From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fremont
>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:02:02 -0700
>
>Hey Don,
>
>Have you heard from Ken Wee lately ?
>
>Take care,
>Buck Conner
>"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 9:09 AM
>Subject: MtMan-List: Fremont
>
>
> > Howdy fellows,
> >   For those interested in Mountain Men both Delawares and whites, I
>found
> > Freemont's Memoirs on-line. Maybe Dean could add this to the library on
>the
> > Mountain Man Page. Here's the URL:
> >
> >       http://moa.umdl.umich.edu/cgi/sgml/moa-idx?notisid=AAZ9580
> > Enjoy the read,
> > Don Secondine in the Ohio Country
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:50:22 -0700
From: Charlie Webb <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: CSMLA

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

- ----__JNP_000_5a69.24ac.0253
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Howdy again Buck,
Things with the CSMLA are a bit bumpy right
now.  The Wildlife representative elected at last
Winter Con. appears to be doing absolutely
nothing.  There has not been a wild life report
since RD Wood left office.  I Felt that the New
President and board would be very strong in
2001 and that the Wildlife guy would lose us
precious hard fought for ground, unfortunately,
I was correct.

CSMLA has lost much of it's
former creditability with the Commission, since
the inline ruleing was reversed by threats of
the "big money" manufacturers. Muzzleloading in
Colorado has been rapidly going down the tube
since that reversal of policy by the DOW.

One of the Northeastern clubs thought they had
all of the answers so stuffed the election with
their cronies and pretty much took over everything.
They rule Winter Con. and Rocky Mtn. College
and have the board stacked with their reps.

My wife and I pulled out a couple of year ago
when we realized what was happening and that
we could do virtually nothing to change things.
We are still members, but no longer on the board.

The Wildlife Commission makes no attempt to hide
the fact the ML Season is a pain for them and
would like to do away with it.  T Knight, Thompson
- -Center, Remington and Ruger  with their free
flowing money have the Commission and the DOW
in their pockets.  The CSMLA has virtually no
chance of positive input to the Commission unless we
come up with a way to match the funds spent on them
by the manufacturers to wine them and dine them.

CSMLA  is simply a burr under their blanket,
nothing but an annoyance to them in past couple of years.
What a waste of all yours and  many others  work
over the years. Dell M. is gone, we seldom see Ray E.
he left over the inline controversy as did Duane B.  Al Main
is still holding up what colors are left.  State Shoot is holding
it's own, approximately 100 shooters plus or minus.
(We average 350 shooters for the  Colorado Spgs.
Muzzle Loaders Memorial Day Shoot.)

I personally believe that part of the problem is the old
timers are tired, burned out or what ever, and we have
practically no young people to fill the voids when someone
drops by the wayside.  Same goes with NMLRA and
most of the Colorado clubs, their membership has very few
members under fifty.   It seems that todays younger shooters
want to go bangbangbangbangbangbang and bang, not
klick swish Kaboom.  You would be shocked how many
ex muzzleloaders (including myself) are doing Cow Boy
Action Shooting rather than fight the existing muzzle loading
politics.

Wish I had better news, but I don't!
Catch ya later,
A tired Old Coyote


Charlie, I came in on the tail end of the discussion, are you guys still
having problems with seasons for the CSMLA ?
- ----__JNP_000_5a69.24ac.0253
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bottomMargin=3D0 bgColor=3D#ffffff leftMargin=3D3 topMargin=3D0 =
rightMargin=3D3>
<DIV>Howdy again Buck,</DIV>
<DIV>Things with the CSMLA are a bit bumpy right</DIV>
<DIV>now.  The Wildlife representative elected at last</DIV>
<DIV>Winter Con. appears to be doing absolutely</DIV>
<DIV>nothing.  There has not been a wild life report</DIV>
<DIV>since RD Wood left office.  I Felt that the New </DIV>
<DIV>President and board would be very strong in</DIV>
<DIV>2001 and that the Wildlife guy would lose us </DIV>
<DIV>precious hard fought for ground, unfortunately,</DIV>
<DIV>I was correct. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>CSMLA has lost much of it's</DIV>
<DIV>former creditability with the Commission, since</DIV>
<DIV>the inline ruleing was reversed by threats of</DIV>
<DIV>the "big money" manufacturers. Muzzleloading in</DIV>
<DIV>Colorado has been rapidly going down the tube</DIV>
<DIV>since that reversal of policy by the DOW.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One of the Northeastern clubs thought they had</DIV>
<DIV>all of the answers so stuffed the election with</DIV>
<DIV>their cronies and pretty much took over everything.</DIV>
<DIV>They rule Winter Con. and Rocky Mtn. College</DIV>
<DIV>and have the board stacked with their reps.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My wife and I pulled out a couple of year ago</DIV>
<DIV>when we realized what was happening and that</DIV>
<DIV>we could do virtually nothing to change things.</DIV>
<DIV>We are still members, but no longer on the board.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The Wildlife Commission makes no attempt to hide</DIV>
<DIV>the fact the ML Season is a pain for them and </DIV>
<DIV>would like to do away with it.  T Knight, Thompson </DIV>
<DIV>-Center, Remington and Ruger  with their free </DIV>
<DIV>flowing money have the Commission and the DOW</DIV>
<DIV>in their pockets.  The CSMLA has virtually no</DIV>
<DIV>chance of positive input to the Commission unless we</DIV>
<DIV>come up with a way to match the funds spent on them</=
DIV>
<DIV>by the manufacturers to wine them and dine them.  </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>CSMLA  is simply a burr under their blanket,</DIV>
<DIV>nothing but an annoyance to them in past couple of years.</DIV>
<DIV>What a waste of all yours and  many others  work </DIV>
<DIV>over the years. Dell M. is gone, we seldom see Ray E.  </DIV>
<DIV>he left over the inline controversy as did Duane B.  Al Main</DIV>
<DIV>is still holding up what colors are left.  State Shoot is=20
holding</DIV>
<DIV>it's own, approximately 100 shooters plus or minus.  </DIV>
<DIV>(We average 350 shooters for the  Colorado Spgs.</DIV>
<DIV>Muzzle Loaders Memorial Day Shoot.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I personally believe that part of the problem is the old </DIV>
<DIV>timers are tired, burned out or what ever, and we have </DIV>
<DIV>practically no young people to fill the voids when someone </DIV>
<DIV>drops by the wayside.  Same goes with NMLRA and </DIV>
<DIV>most of the Colorado clubs, their membership has very few </DIV>
<DIV>members under fifty.   It seems that todays younger=20
shooters</DIV>
<DIV>want to go bangbangbangbangbangbang and bang, not </DIV>
<DIV>klick swish Kaboom.  You would be shocked how many</DIV>
<DIV>ex muzzleloaders (including myself) are doing Cow Boy </DIV>
<DIV>Action Shooting rather than fight the existing muzzle loading</DIV>
<DIV>politics.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Wish I had better news, but I don't!</DIV>
<DIV>Catch ya later,</DIV>
<DIV>A tired Old Coyote</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Charlie, I came in on the tail end of =
the=20
discussion, are you guys still having problems with seasons for the CSMLA=20
?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ----__JNP_000_5a69.24ac.0253--

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:37:32 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fremont

He' Don,

I'll try and run him down, Monsieur LaVelle wants to do some brain tanning
between the holidays and we maybe able to get Ken to come down from his
lodge. Would be a good chance to let him cleanup a bit, he's been living in
the tipi since this past spring on government property above Boulder, has
something about paying out money for rent, you know him - different.

We did a trip from Bonnet's Mill MO early this spring down to the fort to
see Frenchy and Hacker haven't decided about this spring, but will let you
know. Our Party is hosting the AMM Nationals so if a trip would be in the
works in would be after that probably in July ?

Kulamali Haqh? say it - for those wanting to know (Koo-la-mal-si hahch) is
that correct Don ? Means "Do you feel well ?" [Lennie Lenape]

Nulamalsi (No-la-mal-si) - "I feel well."

We have changed our URL's as [about.com] has changed their policies on size
and amount of usage, etc. please make the needed changes to your favorite
links, thanks.

My email has also changed to Buck Conner [e-mail]

New URLs are:

Buck's Base Camp:  http://buckconner.tripod.com

Historical Research:   http://conner110.tripod.com

O'Connor/Connor/Conner History:  http://conner110.tripod.com/family.htm

Clark & Sons Mercantile:  just sold last summer to Paul Jones, he's added a
bunch to the wares.
http://www.clarkandsons.com/

Daniel"Concho"Smith's site:   Historical Research & Development
http://hrd7.tripod.com   since I retired the last of this November Concho
has been here from PA trying to get me to do the rendezvous circuit with
him, sounds like much work.

Peter "GooseBay" Goebel:  http://goosebayworkshops.com/   Peter has moved to
Delaware and now has his own web site and a retail store next to his shop.
His email is: [e-mail]

Take care,
Buck
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771
- ---------------------------------------------------
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fremont


> He' Buck,
>   Good to hear from ya. Lost track for awhile. I see you got a new E- mail
> address. No, I haven't found Ken yet. Are you fellas floatin' down the
> Missouri to De Chartes  come green up?
> Luppitch Knewelch,
> Don Secondine
>
>
> >From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
> >Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fremont
> >Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:02:02 -0700
> >
> >Hey Don,
> >
> >Have you heard from Ken Wee lately ?
> >
> >Take care,
> >Buck Conner
> >"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 9:09 AM
> >Subject: MtMan-List: Fremont
> >
> >
> > > Howdy fellows,
> > >   For those interested in Mountain Men both Delawares and whites, I
> >found
> > > Freemont's Memoirs on-line. Maybe Dean could add this to the library
on
> >the
> > > Mountain Man Page. Here's the URL:
> > >
> > >       http://moa.umdl.umich.edu/cgi/sgml/moa-idx?notisid=AAZ9580
> > > Enjoy the read,
> > > Don Secondine in the Ohio Country
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> > >
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:16:56 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fremont

Dennis,

"I know nothing". But if the boss asks I'll send her this email kid. Damn
things are fun aren't they.

Take care,
Buck
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fremont


> Buck
>  Funny you should mention Mr Wee... He is getting me in trouble in a wee
bit
> (scuse the pun)... I had a request from "She Who Had Probably Be Obeyed"
to
> see if I could make some headway in the basement this morning while she
was
> at work.. All started out fine, until I can across my box with the bow YOU
> traded me and a handful of target arrows... Tempted, but had to work....
> Then I came across some throw pillows that were slated for the dump, then
a
> hunk of Styrofoam reared it's ugly head.. I couldn't ressist.. I grabbed
all
> and headed out the door, tossed the pillows off the hill and the Styrofoam
> and have spent until a few minutes ago having a time!.Skewering rogue
> pillows and killer Styrofoam..... The Bow is plum. And Gwen will be home
in
> 20 minutes or so.........And it is your fault that I didn't get any work
> done..
> D
>
>
> "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much
liberty
> than to those attending too small a degree of it."
> - Thomas Jefferson
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:43:23 -0700
From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CSMLA

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C18587.9CB6F640
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Charlie,
I'm sad to hear this, but what you state is what happens, few want to =
work and those that do wear out after years of fighting the money =
lobbyist, crap.

Take care,
Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Charlie Webb=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 3:50 PM
  Subject: MtMan-List: CSMLA


  Howdy again Buck,
  Things with the CSMLA are a bit bumpy right
  now.  The Wildlife representative elected at last
  Winter Con. appears to be doing absolutely
  nothing.  There has not been a wild life report
  since RD Wood left office.  I Felt that the New=20
  President and board would be very strong in
  2001 and that the Wildlife guy would lose us=20
  precious hard fought for ground, unfortunately,
  I was correct.=20

  CSMLA has lost much of it's
  former creditability with the Commission, since
  the inline ruleing was reversed by threats of
  the "big money" manufacturers. Muzzleloading in
  Colorado has been rapidly going down the tube
  since that reversal of policy by the DOW.

  One of the Northeastern clubs thought they had
  all of the answers so stuffed the election with
  their cronies and pretty much took over everything.
  They rule Winter Con. and Rocky Mtn. College
  and have the board stacked with their reps.

  My wife and I pulled out a couple of year ago
  when we realized what was happening and that
  we could do virtually nothing to change things.
  We are still members, but no longer on the board.

  The Wildlife Commission makes no attempt to hide
  the fact the ML Season is a pain for them and=20
  would like to do away with it.  T Knight, Thompson=20
  -Center, Remington and Ruger  with their free=20
  flowing money have the Commission and the DOW
  in their pockets.  The CSMLA has virtually no
  chance of positive input to the Commission unless we
  come up with a way to match the funds spent on them
  by the manufacturers to wine them and dine them. =20

  CSMLA  is simply a burr under their blanket,
  nothing but an annoyance to them in past couple of years.
  What a waste of all yours and  many others  work=20
  over the years. Dell M. is gone, we seldom see Ray E. =20
  he left over the inline controversy as did Duane B.  Al Main
  is still holding up what colors are left.  State Shoot is holding
  it's own, approximately 100 shooters plus or minus. =20
  (We average 350 shooters for the  Colorado Spgs.
  Muzzle Loaders Memorial Day Shoot.)

  I personally believe that part of the problem is the old=20
  timers are tired, burned out or what ever, and we have=20
  practically no young people to fill the voids when someone=20
  drops by the wayside.  Same goes with NMLRA and=20
  most of the Colorado clubs, their membership has very few=20
  members under fifty.   It seems that todays younger shooters
  want to go bangbangbangbangbangbang and bang, not=20
  klick swish Kaboom.  You would be shocked how many
  ex muzzleloaders (including myself) are doing Cow Boy=20
  Action Shooting rather than fight the existing muzzle loading
  politics.

  Wish I had better news, but I don't!
  Catch ya later,
  A tired Old Coyote


  Charlie, I came in on the tail end of the discussion, are you guys =
still having problems with seasons for the CSMLA ?

- ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C18587.9CB6F640
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bottomMargin=3D0 bgColor=3D#ffffff leftMargin=3D3 topMargin=3D0 =
rightMargin=3D3>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Charlie,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I'm sad to hear this, but what you =
state is=20
what happens, few want to work and those that do wear out after years of =

fighting the money lobbyist, crap.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Take care,<BR>Buck =
Conner<BR>"Eternal=20
vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson =
1771</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Charlie Webb</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 15, =
2001 3:50=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: =
CSMLA</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Howdy again Buck,</DIV>
  <DIV>Things with the CSMLA are a bit bumpy right</DIV>
  <DIV>now.  The Wildlife representative elected at last</DIV>
  <DIV>Winter Con. appears to be doing absolutely</DIV>
  <DIV>nothing.  There has not been a wild life report</DIV>
  <DIV>since RD Wood left office.  I Felt that the New </DIV>
  <DIV>President and board would be very strong in</DIV>
  <DIV>2001 and that the Wildlife guy would lose us </DIV>
  <DIV>precious hard fought for ground, unfortunately,</DIV>
  <DIV>I was correct. </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>CSMLA has lost much of it's</DIV>
  <DIV>former creditability with the Commission, since</DIV>
  <DIV>the inline ruleing was reversed by threats of</DIV>
  <DIV>the "big money" manufacturers. Muzzleloading in</DIV>
  <DIV>Colorado has been rapidly going down the tube</DIV>
  <DIV>since that reversal of policy by the DOW.</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>One of the Northeastern clubs thought they had</DIV>
  <DIV>all of the answers so stuffed the election with</DIV>
  <DIV>their cronies and pretty much took over everything.</DIV>
  <DIV>They rule Winter Con. and Rocky Mtn. College</DIV>
  <DIV>and have the board stacked with their reps.</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>My wife and I pulled out a couple of year ago</DIV>
  <DIV>when we realized what was happening and that</DIV>
  <DIV>we could do virtually nothing to change things.</DIV>
  <DIV>We are still members, but no longer on the board.</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>The Wildlife Commission makes no attempt to hide</DIV>
  <DIV>the fact the ML Season is a pain for them and </DIV>
  <DIV>would like to do away with it.  T Knight, Thompson </DIV>
  <DIV>-Center, Remington and Ruger  with their free </DIV>
  <DIV>flowing money have the Commission and the DOW</DIV>
  <DIV>in their pockets.  The CSMLA has virtually no</DIV>
  <DIV>chance of positive input to the Commission unless we</DIV>
  <DIV>come up with a way to match the funds spent on =
them</DIV>
  <DIV>by the manufacturers to wine them and dine them.  </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>CSMLA  is simply a burr under their blanket,</DIV>
  <DIV>nothing but an annoyance to them in past couple of =
years.</DIV>
  <DIV>What a waste of all yours and  many others  work </DIV>
  <DIV>over the years. Dell M. is gone, we seldom see Ray E.  =
</DIV>
  <DIV>he left over the inline controversy as did Duane B.  Al =
Main</DIV>
  <DIV>is still holding up what colors are left.  State Shoot is=20
  holding</DIV>
  <DIV>it's own, approximately 100 shooters plus or minus.  </DIV>
  <DIV>(We average 350 shooters for the  Colorado Spgs.</DIV>
  <DIV>Muzzle Loaders Memorial Day Shoot.)</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>I personally believe that part of the problem is the old </DIV>
  <DIV>timers are tired, burned out or what ever, and we have </DIV>
  <DIV>practically no young people to fill the voids when someone </DIV>
  <DIV>drops by the wayside.  Same goes with NMLRA and </DIV>
  <DIV>most of the Colorado clubs, their membership has very few </DIV>
  <DIV>members under fifty.   It seems that todays younger=20
  shooters</DIV>
  <DIV>want to go bangbangbangbangbangbang and bang, not </DIV>
  <DIV>klick swish Kaboom.  You would be shocked how many</DIV>
  <DIV>ex muzzleloaders (including myself) are doing Cow Boy </DIV>
  <DIV>Action Shooting rather than fight the existing muzzle =
loading</DIV>
  <DIV>politics.</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>Wish I had better news, but I don't!</DIV>
  <DIV>Catch ya later,</DIV>
  <DIV>A tired Old Coyote</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Charlie, I came in on the tail end =
of the=20
  discussion, are you guys still having problems with seasons for the =
CSMLA=20
  ?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C18587.9CB6F640--


- ----------------------
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------------------------------

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