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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #888 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, November 16 2001 Volume 01 : Number 888 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: your flyer on dress -áááááá MtMan-List: Laura's address -áááááá Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions -áááááá Fw: MtMan-List: Laura's address -áááááá Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions -áááááá MtMan-List: Trigger finger? -áááááá Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? -áááááá Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: your flyer on dress -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? -áááááá MtMan-List: Hodgdon "Eats" CleanShot -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: cast trigger guard -áááááá MtMan-List: Netbusiness Experts -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: cast trigger guard -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: cast trigger guard -áááááá MtMan-List: Osborne's quote on clothes -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Osborne's quote on clothes -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Osborne's quote on clothes -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? -áááááá Fw: MtMan-List: Osborne's quote on clothes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:10:00 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: your flyer on dress In a message dated 11/15/1 11:09:04 AM, havenotmetis@hotmail.com writes: << on your dress talk, the hiverant metis newsletter has done that exat thing, only on dress of the different band of metis. this includeds women and child and different levels of the men in the fur trade . hunter,trader,trapper, vog, ect. (what women?) the metis family went with camp ether hudson bay or N.W. >> et bon jour a vous ausi, mon ami C'est bon. Continue, s'il vous plait. Let it begin with you. The distaff side seems to be best represented in the western fur trade when we research the Northwest Fur Company before and after their merger (under protest) with HBC. Please share with us as much information as you will on this subject. Sincerely Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:31:46 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Laura's address Victoria... I had a computer HD crash and lost Laura's address that you sent me. Can you please resend it to me at admiller@citynet.net so I can send her the Friendship Bead. Thanks... Ad - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:19:39 -0700 From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> Subject: Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions My first bibliography would be Osborn Russell. He pretty accurately describes his gear and that of his companions. Allen At 12:21 AM 11/15/2001 EST, you wrote: > >In a message dated 11/14/1 5:32:52 AM, rjbublitz@earthlink.net writes: > > "One thought, and others please respond with your thoughts on the issue, >is to print up guidelines on how folks could research and document their >gear and clothing. Maybe give a few of the better known and more reliable >sources. " > >And for the following items, the bibliographies are . . . . ." > >Richard James > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:00:37 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Laura's address Ad I ain't Victoria, but here is Laura's address. Lanney Laura Glise 3841 Prestwick Lane SE Olympia, WA 98501 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Laura's address > Victoria... I had a computer HD crash and lost Laura's address that you sent > me. Can you please resend it to me at admiller@citynet.net so I can send > her the Friendship Bead. > > Thanks... > > Ad > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:05:33 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions In a message dated 11/15/01 12:35:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, SWzypher@aol.com writes: << Now then, what is your"member input"? . . . . specifically? Guns? Patterns? Camp Gear? Take your pick and let the games begin. >> Maybe each person who desires to input could submit their method of researching a fact or idea regarding their chosen persona and era. I.E - How to start, what resources they use (library of congress, internet), etc. AND maybe submit one or two texts they have found to be very useful. For me I follow the following pattern 1. Do a broad internet search...BUT use info only as a general lead. NEVER as fact. Look primarily at historical documents or accounts and search the bibliography of those accounts for related literature 2. Follow up at the local library (-ies) and look up the articles, books, names, places, events, etc. found during the internet search. If not available, use interlibrary loan. 3. Consult the library of congress archives for actual journals or historical documents. 4. I use a rule of at least 3 different sources documenting the same thing...with none of them quoting any of the other sources for their info. I.E. - May look at Miller sketches for ideas of fur trade clothing and items while being sure a book does not use the same sketches as its source. OR when trying to find a correct pattern for a fur cap, learning from 3+ resources there was really no particular pattern followed but that was left up to the creativity of the person crafting the fur hat...or the trapper being more likely to have a felt hat and such. That is an example of what I am speaking of and my ltd. input - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 02:19:30 +0000 From: "darlene secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? Howdy Cap'n and list members, Cap'n, don't keep us in suspense any longer than you have to. Did ya make meat and did your banged up finger work when ya needed to pull the trigger on Ole Charcoal Burner? I for one would like to here the yarn as soon as you can get your pipe lit. Your friend, Don Secondine _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:59:58 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions In a message dated 11/16/1 2:19:39 AM, allenhall@srv.net writes: <<My first bibliography would be Osborn Russell. He pretty accurately describes his gear and that of his companions. >> Now there is a start! What items would you like to reference from his writings? RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:01:10 -0800 From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? Don, Thanks for the interest but no yarns from this camp tonight. I did get a shot at a Blue Grouse with my pistola but missed. I know, I know, "he never misses". That's just a rumor spread about to throw my enemies into confusion! <G> We only had yesterday to hunt of course since it was the last day. Stumpy put me up on the side of the ridge and invited me to side hill to the south as he side hilled just below me. After about 3 hours of intermittent rain I finally gave up and started working my way back down off the mountain side. Just short of the road in, I did walk up on a couple mule deer does but no elk. Back at the truck, Stumpy shared his experiences. He had a couple three elk run down the hill past him about 40 yards but he was not quite in position to see them so didn't get a shot. We went back to his place down on the N. Fork and had lunch then took our smooth bores across the road and up a canyon that he had walked up the day before. This time we looked for grouse, probably ruff grouse down that low. It was late in the afternoon by then and it is getting dark early these days. About a mile up the canyon I spoted another mule deer doe up on the hill side about 75 yards and she presented an easy target, even for a smooth bore, but mule deer is not open. I got nervous that we would walk around a corner and spot an elk so I stopped and quickly pulled the shot load out and put a prepatched ball down on the cushion wad instead. We continued to walk up the canyon bottom not seeing any grouse or elk until it got so dark that I figured we would not be able to be sure what we were firing at if we did see game so at that point we turned back down. Almost all the way back to the main road I looked down at the trail watching my footing in the growing gloom and spotted tracks across the old road that hadn't been there on our way up. Stumpy bent down, put his hands in the tracks (too dark to see anything but dark disturbed ground) and said, "Yep, elk tracks". We heard a noise just behind an alder thicket in the creek just a few score yards away and figured it was our night stalker elk. Either a cow or more likely the 6 point that Stumpy says has been hanging down in the main canyon bottom with his harem of 6-8 mule deer does. Anyway, we couldn't see anything and continued on back to camp. We visited some for a bit and then I drove back to Kennewick just glad that I had finally made it into the woods one more time. So not much of a yarn to spin, is it?! <G> Next week my old buddy Clawpapa and I will head over to the Palouse country and try for whitetail and perhaps a few pheasants. Maybe even ambush one of the few wheat field elk they have running around just north of the Snake R. Funny thing. There weren't any elk there when Captains Lewis and Clark came through. Just Nes Pierce eating salmon. YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:10:50 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? But Capt... what DID you do to your finger?? That has got to be a good story... Ad - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:20:44 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions In a message dated 11/16/1 3:07:37 AM, HikingOnThru@cs.com writes: <<Maybe each person who desires to input could submit their method of researching a fact or idea regarding their chosen persona and era. I.E - How to start, what resources they use (library of congress, internet), etc. AND maybe submit one or two texts they have found to be very useful. For me I follow the following pattern 1. Do a broad internet search...BUT use info only as a general lead. NEVER as fact. Look primarily at historical documents or accounts and search the bibliography of those accounts for related literature . . . .(and more). >> Brother: Thank you for your input. This is the kind of research I have been doing for over half a century, but this is not MY document . . . it is supposed to be a compilation of materials from AMM brothers. This was the original suggestion. My involvement is that I offered to compile, sort, and edit what offerings were submitted. My experience with AMM (nearly 30 years) is that of one person helping another who has become excited about the history of the fur trade as it relates to our AMM activities. Similarly, when I started the Fort Bridger Rendezvous - it was supported for the most part by AMM brothers. This is where I first met Walt Hayward and Archie face to face. This open gathering has attracted the curious and involved the more serious ever since 1973. Lets face it - this was the first national invitational rendezvous and from this the rendezvous idea has spread throughout the world. Now it has come to a time when a group of AMM brothers have taken it upon themselves to set up a "proper for the period" camp to show correctness in the midst of considerable incorrectness. It was suggested that since everyone who enters the Fort on Labor Day Weekend receives a free tabloid pass-out, it would be very beneficial to include some guidelines on research correctness in the publication. Credit would go to AMM and we would very likely pick up some quality next-generation members as a bonus. Now I have suggested to the governing board that we (AMM members) could do this. They were receptive. I offered to come up with a product based on AMM input. There are other, expanded possible spin-offs that could come from this, but not unless members come up with some specifics. I hope you can see where this is coming from. If I wanted to do it myself - and someday I may - I will do for myself, publish it and harvest the income from it. For the time being, though, the window is open to the brothers to incrementally produce this original document by their specific-item contributions. I presumed everyone had read the original messages last september when this egg first began to hatch. I further seemed to sense some enthusiasm for the project, so when nothing was happening I volunteered. I have been wrong about so many things in life, it would not be a surprise to know it has happened again. Most Sincerely Dick James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:37:03 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: your flyer on dress havenotmetis@hotmail.com writes: > it as been a while,day light hours are gettin short so have to migrat > to by in door metis camp . HO OLD FOX! you can camp in my camp any time > sorry, i wanted to talk more but i was a hurting unit at that time. HO TERRY...... Glad your back on your feet. Hope that back is better now. Hefting those 250 lb cart wheels by yourself takes a toll on an old man. I made a trip from Illinois to Washington and points in between this summer and was fortunate enough to be able to stop along the way and meet new old friends. Among them were Capt. Lahti, Walt Foster and Terry. I spent a couple of days at the Clark's Fork Rendezvous and shared a camp with Terry. We spent a couple of evenings talking long into the nite about the area. Funny how you have preset notions about folks that change when you meet them in person. While they may have trouble communicating their knowledge with these blasted contraptions, both Walt and Terry are treasure troves of valuable information about the Clark's Fork area and the Metis. I have pictures of the infamous Metis Red River Cart that Terry lugs around with him and the camp where the Lewis and Clark expedition spent 8 days at the juncture of the Yellowstone and Clark's Fork. They are in paper format, but will post them once they are digitized if anyone is interested. Also a picture of my diamond, which looks like a beetle setting next to those monster rigs you Westerners haul around with you. OldFox - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:55:17 -0800 From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? Cut it. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:10 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? > But Capt... what DID you do to your finger?? That has got to be a good > story... > > Ad > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 02:26:24 -0500 From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Hodgdon "Eats" CleanShot - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- A press release arrived today from Hodgdon's attorney Doug Delsemme. List subscribers may find it intereesting, so here it is verbatim: "Florida Jury "Smokes" Clean Shot Technologies: "A Federal Court jury in West Palm Beach, Florida on Monday, November 5, 2001 unanimously handed down a verdict in Favor of Hodgdon Powder Company, Inc. and against Clean Shot Technologies, and awarded Hodgdon damages in the sum of $1,014,660. "The jury rejected all of Clean Shot's claims that the Hodgdon patent was not valid, Including evidence of products claimed to have been made by the long defunct Golden Powder Company. The jury unanimously found that Clean Shot had willfully infringed Hodgdon's Pyrodex Pellet patent by copying and selling palletized(sic) powder known as "Quick Shots." An injunction prohibiting further production and sale of the Clean Shot pellets is anticipated. "Hodgdon will also file a post trial motion asking the Judge to increase damages up to three times based on the jury's finding of willfulness." ...This tends to explain why Hodgdon's said recently they may be coming out with a new, non-sulfer powder. Truly, a golden opportunity........ - - -- "...the system (Microsoft passport) carries significant risks to users that are not made adequately clear in the technical documentation available." - David P. Kormann and Aviel D. Rubin, AT&T Labs - Research - - - - http://www.avirubin.com/passport - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3in Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBO/S/oJPpefykTPP7AQF/WwQAlvpqrf8zsArIC/4aY34GPQffIovvdXpw E1M/g8etcSkIeQMSUJIW5tdlroZgK3gAJq6suo9U99IHfisO6B4N0R6cG+2kxNe4 Dqmcr9N0mY8SzUPV05kFDPSZZMaa/Blc3MK8DGCdcWm47lXM78u45uUUpTyD/YOr RL/Hc+ad2WI= =mSlG - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:20:26 -0600 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cast trigger guard NM I usto have the same problem you speak of of having to get the oil off steel befor i brown it---now using a old original recipee for browning that does not require cleaming---best browing i ever saw and undoubitedly the easiest to use ---it is the same formula as the one used by parker---check out angers book on browning solutions it is in there---easy to mix and takes 3 to 4 days to get the total finish---wipe on one day---let set overnight---card surface wipe on coat second day let set overnight---card surface apply third coat and the next day card and if you have the consistancy you want then kill the action with bakon soda and water---if not recoat and let set over night---this formula gives a black brown same as on the old damascus and parker guns and guns of that time period---works great---its in angers book as parkers browning solution--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce Home of "Old Grizz Products" & "the Arkansas Under Hammers" 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 Phone:1-727-771-1815 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 07:49:31 EST NaugaMok@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 11/12/01 3:30:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, > cwebbbpdr@juno.com writes: > > << Not necessary to polish the trigger guard to a mirror finish. In > fact > the > browning solution seems to work better on a dull or matte finish. > >> > > What's even more important than the finish is getting ALL oil & > grease off > the surface before applying the browning solution. 111 > Triclorethylene used > to do a GREAT job, but it's no longer available. I've found that > hanging the > part then flooding the surface with automotive aerosol brake cleaner > or carb > cleaner works well. Once the surface is clean, DON'T TOUCH IT until > it's > browned. If you MUST hold it with something to stabilize it while > applying > the browning solution, clean a pair of pliers or a "C" clamp with > brake > cleaner & use it or use a paper towel to grip the part with. If > your surface > develops spots where the browning doesn't "take" spray the part down > again & > apply more browning solution. As with all chemicals, use only in a > well > ventilated area! > > NM > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 05:58:33 -0800 (PST) From: TenWolvesMinusOne@yahoo.com Subject: MtMan-List: Netbusiness Experts - --2520055.1005919113748.JavaMail.root.sbz-s32.websys.aol.com Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your friend, TenWolvesMinusOne@yahoo.com, thought you would be interested in this article from http://netbusiness.netscape.com. Click on the link below to read the article, or copy and paste it into a new browser window. Your friend's message: Thought this might interest the list! YMOS M.A Smith Somerset Co.,Maryland on the Barren Creek ----------------------- Netbusiness Experts By FSB <a href=http://netbusiness.netscape.com/fsb_nb/features/sp_f_111601>http://netbusiness.netscape.com/fsb_nb/features/sp_f_111601</a> ----------------------- Fri Nov 16 05:58:33 PST 2001 - --2520055.1005919113748.JavaMail.root.sbz-s32.websys.aol.com-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:56:13 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Dick, If I misquoted you I apoloqize! this light harted discussion is turning into a pissing contest. Don't know why this happans over and over again. I had the misconseption that we were trying to inform the public to what was correct, to do that in a news paper or hand out it must be short and to the point. If not it will just line the nearest trash can. Ole - ---------- >From: SWzypher@aol.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? >Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001, 10:54 AM > > >In a message dated 11/15/1 3:52:01 PM, olebjensen@earthlink.net writes: > ><<To use youre words, Fort Bridger cover moore than the Mountain Man era. Them >litle indian children had mothers, Mexican mom's etc. etc.>> > >Ole >I am misquoted. My statement was about the FUR TRADE period. The Mountan >Man era is not defined and is a modern term. Before Ashley there were >families established in the regions of the Northwest Company where the mother >was native American and the father was Euro-American. This established >pattern continued with U.S. based fur traders in the Upper Missouri and Rocky >Mountains. Trapper/traders out of the Santa Fe / Taos area had Hispanic or >Indian/Hispanic wives and mothers. On that we can easily agree. Now back to >our project . . . . > >I furnished a token list of items appropriate for the living estate of a >trapper/trader during the rendezvous and pre-rendezvous period. It is >open-ended and I asked anyone who wished to add to the list. I also asked >for specifics to describe and re-create these items. The purpose was to help >persons who wanted to get involved or those who think they are involved but >are an embarassment to us all. Where on the list would you like to begin >sharing instructions? Tenting? Bedding? Leather? Pick a number and get in >line. Right now the line is extremely short. > >Richard James > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:42:44 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Dick, If I were an artist I would gladly do it. It is starting to sound like an instruction manual is what everyone is interested in so I will bow out and let others do what they like. Ole - ---------- >From: SWzypher@aol.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? >Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001, 10:38 AM > > >In a message dated 11/15/1 3:48:33 PM, olebjensen@earthlink.net writes: > ><discriptions writen next to them>> > >Ole: > >Sketches of . . . .? >Descriptions of . . . .? >Drawn by whom? > >Based on the input to date we have a stick figure standing in the sun. > >Dick James > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:50:23 EST From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trigger finger? Hey Cap'n Would you mind contacting me offline about your hunt? Sounds like you're traipsing around my old neck of the woods. Sleeps Loudly Wade Smith Boise Id - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:50:34 EST From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cast trigger guard In a message dated 11/16/01 5:50:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, hawknest4@juno.com writes: << --check out angers book on browning solutions it is in there---easy to mix and takes 3 to 4 days to get the total finish-- >> Will have to look for that. I've been using Wahkon Bay's "True Brown" with good results IF I get the surfaces clean. I'm not sure the mix you mention will work for me though -- you have all that nice salt air & humidity down there in Florida. Things work a WHOLE lot differently here in the Nevada desert! I know -- sweat box -- but the only time I tried that I wound up with a real mess! Since I'm usually just doing my own stuff, I just wait & do all my browning in July & August out in the shop with the "swamp cooler" blowing on the parts. With the evaporative cooler, I can get the humidity up to about 50% & coupled with the inside shop day time temp of 100 - 105, it works. By applying the solution every 12 hrs & NOT carding until the last day, I get what I want in about 4 days. NM - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:40:37 -0700 From: Charlie Webb <cwebbbpdr@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cast trigger guard Just a comment, Nothing wrong with Wakon Bay True Brown, but I will guarantee that not carding after each application will cause a very coarse grainy final finish. Humidity and time plays a roll in how coarse and grainy. Browning used that grainy matte finish on some of their J M Browning Mtn. Rifles but public demand changed their thinking. I personally favor a smoother less grainy finish, therefore card after each application . Carding is another can of worms, I use a soft steel wire brush for most things, steel wool on the other hand is used by many, as it come from the hard ware store it has an oil anti rust preservative that forces one to degrease the steel wool before carding to prevent contaminating the degreased surface you are trying to brown. Just for kicks, apply the Wakon Bay solution to a part such as a lock plate or trigger guard, let it sit until the scale builds up to the normal carding point, then toss it into a container of hot near to boiling water for a few minutes, take the part out (the heat will dry it very quickly) and card. Walla, you will have the prettiest rust blue you can imagine. Additional applications makes for a deeper blue that matches many of the old firearm factory blue finishes. Like Bivens, I don't use baking soda to kill the acid effect, I heat the barrel or let it sit in the sun until it is almost to hot to handle, then smear on a coat of boiled linseed. Let it sit for an hour or so then wipe off the excess oil. According to Bivens this is what a lot of the old builders did, and has worked for me for 40 years or so. My comments here are not to tell anyone how they should do things, but to give a bit more information so they can decide for themselves how they want to do things. I use these techniques mentioned to do museum firearm restorations. They Work. (By the way, Coleman fuel used in a safe environment, is an excellent degreaser.) Respectfully, Old Coyote > << --check out angers book on browning solutions it is in > there---easy to mix and takes 3 to 4 days to get the total finish-- > >> > > Will have to look for that. I've been using Wahkon Bay's "True > Brown" with > good results IF I get the surfaces clean. I'm not sure the mix you > mention > will work for me though -- you have all that nice salt air & > humidity down > there in Florida. Things work a WHOLE lot differently here in the > Nevada > desert! I know -- sweat box -- but the only time I tried that I > wound up > with a real mess! Since I'm usually just doing my own stuff, I just > wait & > do all my browning in July & August out in the shop with the "swamp > cooler" > blowing on the parts. With the evaporative cooler, I can get the > humidity up > to about 50% & coupled with the inside shop day time temp of 100 - > 105, it > works. By applying the solution every 12 hrs & NOT carding until > the last > day, I get what I want in about 4 days. > > NM > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:05:41 -0700 From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Osborne's quote on clothes At 09:59 PM 11/15/2001 EST, you wrote: >Now there is a start! What items would you like to reference from his >writings? > >RJames Pg. 82. "A Trappers equipment in such cases is generally one Animal upon which is placed one or two Epishemores a riding Saddle and bridle a sack containing six Beaver traps a blanket with an extra pair of Mocasins his powder horn and bullet pouch with a belt to which is attached a butcher Knife a small wooden box containing bait for Beaver a Tobacco sack with a pipe and implements for making fire with sometimes a hatchet fastened to the Pommel of his saddle his personal dress is a flannel or cotton shirt (if he is fortunate enough to obtain one, if not Antelope skin answers the purpose of over and under shirt) a pair of leather breeches with Blanket or Buffaloe robe a hat or Cap of wool, Buffaloe or Otter skin his hose are pieces of Blanket lapped round his feet which are covered with a pair of Moccassins made of Dressed Deer Elk or Buffaloe skins with his long hair falling loosely over his shoulders completes his uniform." Allen - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:46:12 -0800 From: "Randal Bublitz" <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Osborne's quote on clothes Allen, Do you suppose the "breeches" were knee breeches? Or, did he mean pants as we know them? or, do suppose the word may have been all inclusive? a pair of leather breeches - --- Randal Bublitz - --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net We have NOT inherited the Earth from our Fathers, we are Borrowing it from our Children - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:37:08 -0700 From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Osborne's quote on clothes At 06:46 PM 11/16/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Allen, Do you suppose the "breeches" were knee breeches? Or, did he mean >pants as we know them? or, do suppose the word may have been all >inclusive? > > a pair of leather breeches > > >--- Randal Bublitz Randy, Don't know. Could be either/both. I know when I was growing up there was an expression that someone was "getting too big for their britches" so the terms is still around.... Allen - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:39:26 -0700 From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? At 12:30 AM 11/15/2001 EST, you wrote: >Ole > Have you noticed that the actual contributions has totaled ZIP? Everyone >has an opinion on how it should be handled but no one wants to risk a >contribution. It was a good idea in the "what we otta do" state, but no one >actually wants to get involved. In other words "someone has got to go get >some wood or we are going to freeze" (this is a direct quote from Brian Keith >in personal conversation during the night rendezvous shooting). . . but I >don't see anyone on their way to do any gathering. > >Cheers >Dick Also consider that a bunch of us have been doing the primitive demonstrations at Bridger for the past 3 years, and will be next year as well........all the things you are looking for are discussed and demonstrated there. Allen - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:41:27 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Osborne's quote on clothes The following is the description of breeches found in the 1828 Webster's dictionary. It might help settle the question. Sounds like short pants to me. Notice the pronunciation.......rhymes with "itches" not "leeches". No entry is found for "britches". I found no entry for laxoe braccoe or braccoe in the 1828 dictionary or a modern edition. YMOS Lanney BREECHES, n. plu. brich'es. [Low L. braccoe.] A garment worn by men, covering the hips and thighs. It is now a close garment; but the word formerly was used for a loose garment, now called trowsers, laxoe braccoe. To wear the breeches is, in the wife, to usurp the authority of the husband. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Hall" <allenhall@srv.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:37 PM Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Osborne's quote on clothes > At 06:46 PM 11/16/2001 -0800, you wrote: > >Allen, Do you suppose the "breeches" were knee breeches? Or, did he mean > >pants as we know them? or, do suppose the word may have been all > >inclusive? > > > > a pair of leather breeches > > > > > >--- Randal Bublitz > > Randy, > > Don't know. Could be either/both. I know when I was growing up there was > an expression that someone was "getting too big for their britches" so the > terms is still around.... > > Allen > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #888 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.