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hist_text-digest      Thursday, November 15 2001      Volume 01 : Number 887



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá MtMan-List: Greenland
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá MtMan-List: Block print calicoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Block print calicoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Block print calicoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Block print calicoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá MtMan-List: your flyer on dress
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions
-áááááá Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:38:30 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Sorry --
 I just sent a long letter of response out to Ole before I realized he has
written me on the AMM screen rather than just a personal letter.

Dick James

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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:23:07 -0600
From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Greenland

Bill K asked,
    <? I
may be headed to Thule Greenland. Or what are the gun laws for the country?>
    Bill, I don't know for sure what the gun laws are but Greenland is one
of the most socialized countries in the world. Everything is controled. That
is why we don't hear much about it.
    I'll bet gun ownership and usage is heavily regulated.
Frank Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders



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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:40:51 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Dick,
I think what you say is right. However we need to keep it short (low
attention span) It should be only a couple of pages as a hand out. If it is
to be sold to the public in should be detailed and should describe the
diferent periods that show up at Bridger and the diferences.
On a 2 page hand out it should be pointed out what is not correct (nicely).
YMOS
Ole # 718 Hivarno
- ----------
>From: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
>Date: Tue, Nov 13, 2001, 1:36 PM
>

>
>In a message dated 11/13/1 3:23:05 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><<I would suggest that we describe a Mountain Man about 1830 to 1835 and his
>gear. We also need to describe a long hunter 1765 to 1775 with his gear.>>
>
>Ole-Ole
>I'm glad to see you had the sense to spend time with your computer today
>instead of going out in the rain.  I spent an interesting last saturday at a
>symposium moderated by Fred Gowan.  He dealt with this subject.  His feeling
>is that there are "book-ends" on the period and he places them at the date of
>Lewis & Clark's return on one end and 1840 on the other.  Hyram Chittenden,
>on the other hand, specifies 1807 until the building of Bridger's Post in
>1843.  Interesting they parallel after a century of  space between
>statements.   Fred went on to say that you cannot isolate information within
>the given time frame and ignore politics, history, and even geography outside
>of that range.  I told him I fully agreed and though his classes begin with
>events in the early 1600s, when I taught "History, Culture, and Crafts of the
>Mountain Man"  I began in the 1500s with Giovani Cabotta (John Cabbot).  My
>example was Z. Leonard's recounting the celebration of the victory of the
>Battle of New Orleans while in a trappers' camp in the Rockies more than a
>decade later.  Fred's point was the progression of political pressures from
>all nations involved in working the fur country.
>
>There are some other interesting developments in their embryonic stage right
>now that will shortly be on the scene.  Properly treated they could all be a
>showcase for AMM.
>
>Now to answer your question:  I wouldn't exclude any of the fur trade period
>in advising individuals in equipage for their personna, but surely directions
>could key certain things to certain time periods.  They should be labled as
>such.  As to longhunters and even colonial riflemen - my opinion only - there
>wasn't that much difference as outfits and clothing from one period bled into
>the next.  In dealing with public education on the subject (which includes
>the un-learning of some of the crap being dosed out in the public schools) I
>have a strong feeling about paying tribute to both the above mentioned
>periods in order to foster an appreciation for what sacrifices and efforts
>were manifest in order to make such a magnificent America possible.
>
>'Nuff said for now.
>Dick James
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:48:50 -0700
From: Todd Glover <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Dick,

Sounds like an excellent frame work to present  to the administrators.
I agree with Ole  that the free hand out or newspaper article should be
kept short and change year to year.
Then we can compile the "Best of AMM" project and have a demand for it.

By the way..  what was the seminar you attended with Fred? and why didn't
you tell us ?

Todd


On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 01:34:17 EST [e-mail] writes:
> I am going to stick my neck out on this one:
>
> We have mentioned several times possibilities of AMM providing
> guidelines for
> correctness to be included in the tabloid that is given to everyone
> at the
> annual Fort Bridger Rendezvous  (approximately 30 - 40,000 people).
> Now
> things as silent.  I will be meeting with the adminstrators of the
> next
> gathering and would like to present this proposal to them, but -- we
> have no
> proposal.  And so I make this offer:
>
>     I will edit the first draught of such an offering based on what
> all of
> you choose to submit and do it after counseling with "qualified
> others".   I
> propose and will list below a suggested start for the subjects to be
> covered.
>  I will accumulate and catagorize the material and provide for the
> several
> possible alternatives in each catagory.  I also solicit suggestions
> to expand
> the catagories I list here so we can be more nearly complete.  And
> so we can
> be more nearly correct . . . Please include a bibliography or other
> reference
> documenting historic correctness.
>
>     To begin the catagories, I will make the following suggestions:
>
> Clothing: Hat, shirt, smock, coat, capote, breeches, leggins,
> scarves,
> moccasins - footgear, belts, decoration (if any), materials used,
> style and
> patterns,  what NOT . . .  and . . . .
>
> Shooting Gear:  Long gun ( flint, percussion, style, caliber, number
> . . .)
> hand guns, Pouches, horns, cappers, flint equipment, patches,
> containers,
> patch knife, patch material"care and keeping" tools, how worn or
> carried,
> etc.
>
> Camp Gear: Kettles, cups,  spoons, forks, plates, fire tools, ropes,
> shovels,
> canteens. tenting,. . . .
>
> Sleeping gear:  Blankets, ground cover, apishamores, etc..
>
> Possibles: Razor, mirror, firesteel, awl, stitchery equipment,
> journals,
> telescope, maps, books,         et. al..
>
> Trade Goods:  Beads, awls, blankets, knives, ammunition,
> foo-foo-rah and
> gee-gaws
>
> Horse Gear:  Saddles, bridles, riggings, pickets,  hobbles . . . .
>
> Trapping Gear:  Design(s),  how many, bait, . . . .
>
> AND . . .
>
> Shall we go for it???
>
> Dick James
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784
http://tetontodd.tripod.com

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:53:08 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions

Initially, giving folks the "guidelines" tends to sound nice.  However, after
thinking on it a spell, this has the potential to become one of those pieces
of written word that, over a few short years, becomes canon.  Besides, could
you possibly fit all that someone would need to knwo to even start living
history in a flyer/pulp rag printup?

One thought, and others please respond with your thoughts on the issue, is to
print up guidelines on how folks could research and document their gear and
clothing.  Maybe give a few of the better known and more reliable sources.
Get people started in doing living history and enjoying it all around.
Besides, you can give as many disclamors as you want but you will end up with
a whole new crop of folks all looking the same and toting the same stuff.

The reason I say this is b/c getting started a couple years back in living
history, I had a lot of people give me good advice.  Some of it was how to
research and document.  Other advice was what to do, what to get and how.
The prior was and is, by far, the best I got...keeps me digging...keeps info
flowing...keeps us all in new info.

For what it is worth,

- -C.Kent

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:30:03 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

In a message dated 11/14/1 12:44:34 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<<we need to keep it short (low
attention span) It should be only a couple of pages as a hand out>>

Ole
Right now it is really short.  No response - not even to expand the list of
subjects.  And you are right . . . it should be short, but not this short.
Once/if we ever get good material to work with (and I am/was expecting
duplication), it  will be manucured to a size and format most appropriate.

How about it?  Anyone out there want to risk it??

Dick James

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:47:14 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

In a message dated 11/14/1 1:53:35 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<<By the way..  what was the seminar you attended with Fred? and why didn't
you tell us ?
>>

Todd  --  the symposium was by invitation only.  It was at the Heritage
Center where the Festival of the American West is held each year.  They have
taken initial steps to prepare the Indian area and now are looking at a
future fur trade area.  This is an internal working of the American West
Heritage Center and I had nothing to do but listen and input when asked.
Again it was their party and by invitation only.  Looking forward to a future
situation that is keyed to AMM principles and give nudges where I can is the
best I can offer for now.  Look at the past, though:  first rendezvous since
1840 held 1973 at Fort Bridger,  Reburial of John Johnston in Cody - 1974,
First rendezvous on Henry's Fork of the Green since 1825 held 1974 & 5.
First Rendezvous in Cache Valley since 1826 held 1976, First gathering of
mountain men at Fort Buena Ventura since 1847 ( winter camp  --  before the
fort was re-built) . . . .  All these things and more were carried out by
AMM.  There are a couple more in the wind right now that I know, of and a
bunch I have never heard about yet.

Cheers
Dick James



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:45:56 -0700
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

At 07:19 AM 11/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:
Ole wrote:
>I would suggest that we describe a Mountain Man about 1830 to 1835 and his
>gear. We also need to describe a long hunter 1765 to 1775 with his gear.
>There are others but I can't think of them.

Well, since it's a rendezvous, wouldn't the rendezvous period, 1825-1840 be
appropriate?

And, oh boy, this one will get fun in a hurry!


Allen
Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:50:18 +0000
From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Block print calicoes

Howdy friends,
  I swear I'm not getting any kickbacks, but I saw this stuff at a
re-enactment and thought you all might be interested. These people research
fur trade calico prints and duplicate them by hand cutting the different
blocks and printing them by hand. They showed me their documentation on the
different patterns and I was impressed. I hope you will be too. I've never
seen anything like it worn at any events before.
   check this out:
     www.whitefoxtrading.com
Your friend in the Ohio Country,
Don Secondine

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:19:15 -0700
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Please don't forget to have some guidelines on women's dress. It would be a
real pity to leave the women in the dark. My first thought: *NO BODICES*.

In haste,
Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:33:5 -0800
From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions

> [Original Message]
> From: Randal Bublitz <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
 > Date: 11/13/01 6:25:20 PM
> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs.
Directions
>
> C.Kent,         You have made a brilliant comment.  "Give a man a fish
and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish....."  pardon the analogy.
hardtack
>
>
> > One thought, and others please respond with your thoughts on the issue,
is to
> > print up guidelines on how folks could research and document their gear
and
> > clothing.  Maybe give a few of the better known and more reliable
sources.
> > Get people started in doing living history and enjoying it all around.
> > Besides, you can give as many disclamors as you want but you will end
up with
> > a whole new crop of folks all looking the same and toting the same
stuff.
> >
> >
> > -C.Kent
>
>
> --- Randal Bublitz
> --- [e-mail]
> We have NOT inherited the Earth from our Fathers, we are Borrowing it f


- --- Randal Bublitz
- --- [e-mail]
We have NOT inherited the Earth from our Fathers, we are Borrowing


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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:36:10 -0800
From: "Lee Newbill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Block print calicoes

I dunno Don.  I know you was trying to be helpful and all, but when I showed
my wife that website, she pushed me off the computer and starting figgering
how much of MY money she could spend.  How am I supposed to get important
stuff like 'nother pack horse this spring if'n she spends all my hay money
on frillies??  You ain't no help t'all.

With tounge firmly in cheek... they've really got some nice material.

Lee Newbill of N. Idaho


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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:45:29 +0000
From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Block print calicoes

Yep Lee,
  But, ya know what they say about keeping the cook happy! We all stay
happy. Glad ya'll enjoyed the sight.
Your friend,
Don



>From: "Lee Newbill" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Block print calicoes
>Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:36:10 -0800
>
>I dunno Don.  I know you was trying to be helpful and all, but when I
>showed
>my wife that website, she pushed me off the computer and starting figgering
>how much of MY money she could spend.  How am I supposed to get important
>stuff like 'nother pack horse this spring if'n she spends all my hay money
>on frillies??  You ain't no help t'all.
>
>With tounge firmly in cheek... they've really got some nice material.
>
>Lee Newbill of N. Idaho
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:52:56 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Block print calicoes

Thanks for the site, Don. I just sent em $2 for some samples to see if
they're as good as they look. Hard to find good linen....

Magpie

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:46:12 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Allen,
What I was thinking is this. As visitors come through they are handed this
two page flyer that simply describes a Mountain Man from the 1830's, his
wepons, clothes, and a description of those things that he didn't wear. The
same thing for the Long Hunter. A drawing of what is correct on each page
should be added, this would include the ladies.
I would also write a book similar to the books of Buckskining using the
combined AMM knowledge and resources and sell it to make money for the land.
I have noticed that a lot of the people writing articles for those book's
are  members of the AMM.
Ole
- ----------
>From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
>Date: Tue, Nov 13, 2001, 8:45 PM
>

>At 07:19 AM 11/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Ole wrote:
>>I would suggest that we describe a Mountain Man about 1830 to 1835 and his
>>gear. We also need to describe a long hunter 1765 to 1775 with his gear.
>>There are others but I can't think of them.
>
>Well, since it's a rendezvous, wouldn't the rendezvous period, 1825-1840 be
>appropriate?
>
>And, oh boy, this one will get fun in a hurry!
>
>
>Allen
>Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:48:20 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Angela,
Go for it, who would be better than you.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
>Date: Tue, Nov 13, 2001, 2:19 PM
>

>Please don't forget to have some guidelines on women's dress. It would be a
>real pity to leave the women in the dark. My first thought: *NO BODICES*.
>
>In haste,
>Your humble & obedient servant,
>Angela Gottfred
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:15:38 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

In a message dated 11/14/1 4:46:11 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Well, since it's a rendezvous, wouldn't the rendezvous period, 1825-1840 be
appropriate? >>

Alan

 I believe it was you that first kicked the top off this ant hill.  Any and
all negatives I assigne to you.

Now -
Since this is not exclusivly for AMM rendevous ( and they go back before 1825
in personna) it is more information for the "fur trade" era with
concentration on Lewis & Clark through the end of the rendezvous period.  I
personally feel that much of what was exhibited in the early 1800s was  still
the stuff the 1700s was made of (was/were - I debated that one. WAS -
singular).  Saying then that guns, fabrics, tailoring of 1790 were virtually
the same in 1822.   Narrow falls of 1770 were still worn in the 1800s, but
broadfalls introduced about 1800 were not in-sie in 1750 - or 1880.

Nit picking aside. . . . This is direction intended to help the interested,
uninitiated, and unschooled come up with an outfit that will not be an embara
ssment to the rest of the camp as it should be to that green-horn.
Application here of the KISS principle.

With that said, and realizing all input will be catagorized and juried . . .
what have ye to say?  includeing broadening of the list I advanced??

Dick James

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:17:54 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

In a message dated 11/14/1 5:24:25 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Please don't forget to have some guidelines on women's dress. It would be a
real pity to leave the women in the dark. My first thought: *NO BODICES*.
>>

First off:  What women?

Richard James

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:21:21 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions

In a message dated 11/14/1 5:32:52 AM, [e-mail] writes:

    "One thought, and others please respond with your thoughts on the issue,
is to  print up guidelines on how folks could research and document their
gear and  clothing.  Maybe give a few of the better known and more reliable
sources.  "

And for the following items, the bibliographies are . . . . ."

Richard James


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:30:30 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Ole
    Have you noticed that the actual contributions has totaled ZIP?  Everyone
has an opinion on how it should be handled but no one wants to risk a
contribution.  It was a good idea  in the "what we otta do" state, but no one
actually wants to get involved.  In other words "someone has got to go get
some wood or we are going to freeze" (this is a direct quote from Brian Keith
in personal conversation during the night rendezvous shooting). . .  but I
don't see anyone on their way to do any gathering.

Cheers
Dick

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 03:06:33 -0700
From: "Terrance Luff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: your flyer on dress

HO CAMP!
  it as been a while,day light hours are gettin short so have to migrat
to by in door metis camp . HO OLD FOX! you can camp in my camp any time
sorry, i wanted to talk more but i was a hurting unit at that time.
  ho all you old timers and new, on your dress talk, the hiverant metis
newsletter has done that exat thing, only on dress of the different band
of metis. this includeds women and child and different levels of the men in
the fur trade . hunter,trader,trapper, vog, ect.  (what women?)
the metis family went with camp ether hudson bay or N.W.  IF'EN' you would
like to se examples. get a hold of me and i will try a fax some.
the research for the metis camp starts at end of 1700,s threw 1800"s
  my personal interst runs for cart metis dress 1820 to 1860. the AMM is not
the only people that have done research,so, La Moonous maybe you should have
mor then one view piont. willing to put a few cents in,just send some somk.
For hikingonthrew-if you are interrested,i sweat and talk with our cut
finger reg. leader,all summer, ask away.
                                  bon jour mon amie
                                  ponyrider

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:43:32 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Dick,
To make things simple, I would use sketches that show before and after
drawings with simple discriptions writen next to them. Fort Bridger ranges
in period's from 1600 to 1880 with the majority being Mountain Man followed
by Long Hunter. The exagerated cartoon is funny without being insulting or
confrontational but will still teach the point. I fear that we will tend to
write a manual that no one will open except the people who put it together
and we will not achive the education of the great unwashed.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
>Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001, 10:15 PM
>

>
>In a message dated 11/14/1 4:46:11 AM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><<Well, since it's a rendezvous, wouldn't the rendezvous period, 1825-1840 be
>appropriate? >>
>
>Alan
>
> I believe it was you that first kicked the top off this ant hill.  Any and
>all negatives I assigne to you.
>
>Now -
>Since this is not exclusivly for AMM rendevous ( and they go back before 1825
>in personna) it is more information for the "fur trade" era with
>concentration on Lewis & Clark through the end of the rendezvous period.  I
>personally feel that much of what was exhibited in the early 1800s was  still
>the stuff the 1700s was made of (was/were - I debated that one. WAS -
>singular).  Saying then that guns, fabrics, tailoring of 1790 were virtually
>the same in 1822.   Narrow falls of 1770 were still worn in the 1800s, but
>broadfalls introduced about 1800 were not in-sie in 1750 - or 1880.
>
>Nit picking aside. . . . This is direction intended to help the interested,
>uninitiated, and unschooled come up with an outfit that will not be an embara
>ssment to the rest of the camp as it should be to that green-horn.
>Application here of the KISS principle.
>
>With that said, and realizing all input will be catagorized and juried . . .
>what have ye to say?  includeing broadening of the list I advanced??
>
>Dick James
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:47:18 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Dick,
To use youre words, Fort Bridger cover moore than the Mountain Man era. Them
litle indian children had mothers, Mexican mom's etc. etc.
YMOS
Ole
- ----------
>From: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
>Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001, 10:17 PM
>

>
>In a message dated 11/14/1 5:24:25 AM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><<Please don't forget to have some guidelines on women's dress. It would be a
>real pity to leave the women in the dark. My first thought: *NO BODICES*.
>>>
>
>First off:  What women?
>
>Richard James
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:49:52 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

Dick,
I thought you were doing it! with help from others? do we have a good artist
listening to this conversation?
YMOS
Ole
- ----------
>From: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??
>Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001, 10:30 PM
>

>Ole
>    Have you noticed that the actual contributions has totaled ZIP?  Everyone
>has an opinion on how it should be handled but no one wants to risk a
>contribution.  It was a good idea  in the "what we otta do" state, but no one
>actually wants to get involved.  In other words "someone has got to go get
>some wood or we are going to freeze" (this is a direct quote from Brian Keith
>in personal conversation during the night rendezvous shooting). . .  but I
>don't see anyone on their way to do any gathering.
>
>Cheers
>Dick
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:17:13 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions

In a message dated 11/15/01 12:23:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< And for the following items, the bibliographies are . . . . ."
  >>
That could be where member input comes in...so far I have heard people input
lots of good info on what to put in and more than a couple "but don't forget
this..." and "let's remember that..."  Has all the makings of a "how-to" book
of dressing up like a mtn.man or associated fur trade persona.

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:33:20 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: FW: RE: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct?? Guides vs. Directions

In a message dated 11/15/1 6:19:42 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<That could be where member input comes in...so far I have heard people
input
lots of good info on what to put in and more than a couple "but don't forget
this..." and "let's remember that...>>

Now then, what is your"member input"? . . . . specifically?  Guns? Patterns?
Camp Gear?  Take your pick and let the games begin.

Richard James

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:38:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

In a message dated 11/15/1 3:48:33 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I would use sketches that show before and after drawings with simple
discriptions writen next to them>>

Ole:

Sketches of . . . .?
Descriptions of  . . . .?
Drawn by whom?

Based on the input to date we have a stick figure standing in the sun.

Dick James

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:54:03 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

In a message dated 11/15/1 3:52:01 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<To use youre words, Fort Bridger cover moore than the Mountain Man era. Them
litle indian children had mothers, Mexican mom's etc. etc.>>

Ole
I am misquoted.  My statement was about the FUR TRADE period.  The Mountan
Man era is not defined and is a modern term.  Before Ashley there were
families established in the regions of the Northwest Company where the mother
was native American and the father was Euro-American.  This established
pattern continued with U.S. based fur traders in the Upper Missouri and Rocky
Mountains.  Trapper/traders out of the Santa Fe / Taos area had Hispanic or
Indian/Hispanic wives and mothers.  On that we can easily agree.  Now back to
our project . . . .

I furnished a token list of items appropriate for the living estate of a
trapper/trader during the rendezvous and pre-rendezvous period.  It is
open-ended and I asked anyone who wished to add to the list.  I also asked
for specifics to describe and re-create these items.  The purpose was to help
persons who wanted to get involved or those who think they are involved but
are an embarassment to us all.   Where on the list would you like to begin
sharing instructions?  Tenting? Bedding?  Leather?  Pick a number and get in
line.  Right now the line is extremely short.

Richard James

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:01:28 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What do you say is correct??

In a message dated 11/15/1 3:54:00 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< do we have a good artist listening to this conversation?>>
If we do he is being very silent about it.  I don't blame him.  There is
nothing on this slate for him to draw.

Re-read, Ole.  I offered to compile, edit, consult, and prepare a final
draught (or draughts as this project lends itself to several purposes on
several different levels).  The original idea is not mine.  I believe it is
Alan's with your endorsement.  Nothing was happening so I made an offer to
get it off dead center.  I went for wood.  Anyone else want to go get some?
or does everyone just have a plan to tell as yet un-named persons where to go
and how to gather . . . but hurry.

Dick


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