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> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 08:56:13 -0400
From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nationals
Oh! may Gawd! did that picture wake me up this very sunny Fla. morning.
Now there are some nice looking gents.
Linda Holley
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Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:00:54 +0800
From: buck_conner@email.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Youth Presentation
> This game was played at the Fort Snelling July reenactment of the sale of
> the Columbia Fur Co. to American Fur. The post variation was to stand on
> nail kegs. Be sure the ground is soft!
>
> Larry Huber
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Larry,
You mentioning Ft. Snelling, I was there last week and talked to several of the living history folks working there, they told me that being state run they would be closing very shortley because their buget has been used up for the year. Was told the same thing the week before at another historical site in MN, if this is true that's real poor for "youth presentations" or any other "demos" for the state's history programs. To bad the federal goverment can't give some relief, tax breaks or whatever to keep these sites open year around or at least weekends in off seasons in MN.
Do you know anything about this, hear something at the end of the local news one night, but found nothing in the Minn. paper next day ?
I have several original U.S. Model 1816 Harpers Ferry flintlocks that weren't converted until 1828/29 and not approved for service until 1830 -marked- "US/A.WATERS/1828" and "US/A.WATERS/1829" this company did many of the conversions and where proofed by "MILLBURY/1830" (government agent)for release for serviceon this year.
From 1923 until his death in 1990 my father had collected both flint and perc. military weapons of English or American forces used in the new world (here). So I can say we have seen a few over the years of these old guns and their ignition systems. We have sold, trade or swapped to collectors fron sea to shining sea as well as several museums, so I have seen a few over the years.
A large part of the conversions where not in the field until the mid 1830's back east, so to state "Most guns in the East where probably cap by 1827." just really isn't true, let me tell you why.
Maybe by 1835 some had changed, but remember these people followed what the military did, plus converting from one to the other system was expensive for those limited in funds when the old flinter still worked. They used their gun to mainly provide food for their families, also protection or sport, put like today it's expensive to just waste ball and powder.
Usually those of means where the first to make the change, like anything else. Charles Hanson has talked and written many articles about this subject, but what I have always found interesting is there are only a few documented cases (in comparsion to the flint) of percussion being used before 1837.
When St. Louis gun makers/hardware stores - (like today's Wal Mart or K Mart, sell everything) started to promoted the use of this system, either conversion or new guns (by the way many of which according to Hanson where double barrel shotguns)was in the late 1830!
Charley wrote and I can't find which journal it is in right now, that many of the weapons coming west where military muskets, that was part of your pay when leaving the service (probably because of poor pay and the weapon you carried worked, it was used for the time being), interesting, sure shoots down some folks dreams.
Jed Smith died in the late 1820"s carrying to caplock pistols. Read JOURNAL of a TRAPPER by Russell .Mid to late 1830's caplocks are used and mentioned. Also read Wah to ya and the Taos Trail it takes place in the late 1840's. Their guns are caplock the Indians use "the old style ignition'. As for me I have both and use both.That is the nice thing about the 1830s 40s and 50s they are both correct be you trapper or trader etc. Gentleman James
As mentioned, there where both systems, the number of each is an unknown figure, like Charley said at a speech at Bent's Fort back in the late 70's, "records where not kept on such things, the only records as accurate as they would be, would be to look at the trade lists and possibly the number of flints or percussion caps being shown for that time". Not a true picture because some of flint shooters would have knapped their own with local material, rather than spend money on flint when whiskey was available.
I'm sure that my old friend "Hawk" can add additional information, as can several others like Dave Kanger or Mike Moore, both good research men.
Good discussion topic that will go on until we all loose interest in this hobby/sport/way of life, Thanks Gentlemen James.
