<font face="Arial"><font size=+0> Does anyone have a copy of these
books or know where I might find them? A copy of these pages would also
be very much appreciated.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=+0> This
are the original books published by Arthur H Clark before 1972. There is
a new title that is very similar that does not contain the information
I am looking for.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=+0>Thanks
in advance for any help you can provide,</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=+0>Trent
Shue</font></font></blockquote>
</body>
</html>
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Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:23:12 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation
Barney,
One thing which was a great hit when Bill K. and I were doing museum
demos was a old Indian game. Two people stood on flat rocks about 10
feet apart and they held on to a rope and each tried to pull / trick the
other to fall off their rock. Or make them let go of it. Quite a strategy game.
Lots of fun.You can make a person fall in surprisingly many ways. If it sounds
confusing, email off list.
mike.
LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote:
> I have the opportunity to do a living history presentation during a week long
> YMCA camp in the San Bernardino Mountains. The groups will be about 10
> campers each, twice a day, for an hour or so, and the campers are in the 8-11
> age range.
>
> I have slated some Dutch Oven Cooking, flint and steel fire-starting, hands
> on display of primitive tools and weapons i.e. traps, flint knives,
> flintlocks, sundial, etc, but am looking for other ideas as well.
>
> Any suggestions? Thanks, Barney
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:50:53 EDT
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE: MtMan-List: Rifle question
In a message dated 7/2/1 5:06:41 PM, nick.de.santis@intel.com writes:
<<A question for all you shooters: How may of you are shooting with a
"moose-milk" type of water soluble oil patch lube vs. the "bear-grease"
patch lube? >>
How about just using pre-1840 grease or spit patches like the originals??
RJames
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:00:19 EDT
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hist_text@xmission.com
In a message dated 7/2/1 7:26:18 PM, amm1616@earthlink.net writes:
<< Leblanc, William Volume V, Pages171-172
>
Turley, Simeon Volume VII, 301-314
> Does anyone have a copy of these books or know where I might find
> them? A copy of these pages would also be very much appreciated.>>
Since you are AMM you should know that the AMM Museum Library purchased an
all-but-complete set about 20 years ago. You as a member are entitled to
access to it.
Richard James
hvrno #79
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:05:39 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@cox-internet.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: rifle question
Big Dave asked,
<What brand and or type of rifle is the most commonly seen at the most
recent
Rendezvous
Also what percentage are cap locks???>
BD, your question is going to open up a slew of opinions. The answer
depends on a lot of things. Like what type r'vous? Where is it being held
[i.e. Wyoming or Virginia], etc.
You see everything at r'vous, Ky/Penn styles, Hawken/Leman, lots more
smoothbores in recent years. And, again depending on what kind of event you
may or may not see rifles that have a "brand" but mostly custom made.
I would suggest you try not to copy the crowd, do yer own thing.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:13:52 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@cox-internet.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: lubes
Traveler
The question of proper lubes has been kicked around endlessly. Everyone
has their favorite.
Moose milk, in its many variations, has remained popular for decades.
Stick with what works for you.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:22:52 EDT
From: Hawkengun@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July
Thanks for the references...
John
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:45:57 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation
Just wanted to let you guys know that the program is coming together, and
will include, as time allows:
1) Passing around furs, trade beads and period accoutrements,
2) Demonstrations of fire starting (flint & steel and bow-drill), and
3) Making cordage and knots.
All going on while baking a Dutch oven dessert (which I hated to include for
PC reasons, but was requested by the Director).
To Wade, Dave, C. Kent, Hawk, John K, John M, Jerry, Pat, Ray and Mike:
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP! Barney
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Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 20:49:09 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need infor about baynton,wharton and morgan
Dave,
Would love to find out more about the records. My family settled
in the "American Bottoms" in 1782. One of five white, but non Eglish families
to do so. But it seems that they did alot around Bellefontane (today's Waterloo,
Il). Where are the records kept? Any possibility that a James Moore or Samuel
Moore turned up in them? Samuel was one of George Rogers Clark's spies for
his raids on the three forts. Any help appreciated.
mike.
ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote:
> Traphand@aol.com writes:
> > Loved the infor. you sent me and yes I an looking into morgans store in
> > kaskaskia. Any information on the goods he kept in the store would be
> > helpful and and also, what he charged for the goods.
>
> Nothing more on the store or goods themselves, just stuff about Morgan and
> his underhanded dealings and the reasons for failure of the company. Here's
> another little tidbit I ran across in another source: "The Story of Illinois"
> by Theo. Pease.
>
> "As early as 1766 Illinois had begun a trade connection with the seaboard
> English colonies. In 1765, the shifty Samuel Wharton, of the Philadelphia
> firm of Baynton, Wharton, and Morgan, had listened to private representations
> from George Croghan that he would take a secret partnership with them and buy
> their goods at high prices to be given in the king's name as presents to the
> western Indians whom he was descending down the Ohio to pacify. The firm
> dreamed of 200% profits. Wharton tumbled all the firm's unsalable stock in
> dry goods, fine groceries, and other commodities, whether suited to the
> Indian trade or not, into wagons and sent them off by back roads to
> Pittsburgh. Although attempts were made to conceal the transaction, rival
> firms which were still barred from the Indian trade as a military measure
> protested to the British commander-in-chief, Major General Thomas Gage.
> Despite protestations of innocence from Wharton and Croghan, Gage made no
> attempt to conceal his opinion that both were lying."
>
> "meanwhile unsupervised wagoners had forded rivers with loads of chocolate
> and tea and had liberally helped themselves to the goods in their charge.
> The lawless Paxton Boys plundered what the wagoners had spared....a much
> reduced stock of damaged goods unsuited to the Indian trade had reached
> Pittsburgh too late and were wasted on fair and frail ladies by the rascally
> agents of the firm."
>
> "In 1766.......Morgan found himself at length in the Illinois Country with a
> poorly assorted lot of goods in competition with skilled French merchants who
> were in debt to New Orleans firms and therefore bound to deal with them."
>
> After not being able to secure the provisioning of the post because of
> differences and a dislike by LC John Reed, BW&M fell into difficulties and
> had to carry on its business under the supervision of creditors. In an
> attempt to generate funds, Morgan returned east and secured a quantity of
> Jamaican Negroes which he, in turn, sold to the Illinois French for 400
> pounds each.
>
> Dave
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 00:37:09 EDT
From: ThisOldFox@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need infor about baynton,wharton and morgan-Now Moore
> Would love to find out more about the records.=20
Mike,
As the saying goes, "I'm Paul Harvey and I've got news for you."
>My family settled in the "American Bottoms" in 1782. One of five white, but=
=20
non Eglish=20
> families to do so. But it seems that they did alot around Bellefontane=20
In 1779, Bellefontaine, the first permanent village of purely English=20
speaking men north of the Ohio River, was settled. It received an increase=20
in population in 1781, after the abandonment of Ft. Jefferson at the "Iron=20
Banks." Prominent among these pioneers were James Moore, Henry and Nicholas=
=20
Smith, Shadrach Bond (uncle of the 1st governor of IL), William Oglesby, and=
=20
Robert Watts. (Alvord, "The Illinois Country)
Capt. James Moore was the leader of the Americans who settled at=20
Bellefontaine. Reynolds says (p. 96) that he came from Maryland, and that h=
e=20
was employed by Gabriel Cerr=E9 to trade with the Indians in Tennessee. He=20
died in 1788. (see vol ii., 349) Several of his children moved to Missouri.=
=20
(Houck, "History of Mo., Index)
Alvord, "Kaskaskia Records" mentions Moore several times. He is listed in a=
=20
couple of census, as are his children. Mention is made of James Jr., John,=20
Milton, William, and Enoch. Also James, sent as commissary, signs contract=20
with B. Tardiveau, writes a memorial to Congress, and petitions Court at=20
Kaskaskia.
Alvord, "Cahokia Records" gives further family heritage, and has his will an=
d=20
estate listing.
> Where are the records kept?=20
Contact Illinois Historical Society. Books written by Alvord and Pease are=20
being republished by the University of Illinois Press. The ones I have are=20
circa 1900-1925 and were written for the Illinois Centennial. They are=20
pretty pricey in 1st edition form. We are approaching the Bicentennial and=20
renewed interest is leading to many early unpublished manuscripts being=20
printed.
Moores are mentioned in:
Alvord, "The Illinois Country, 1673-1818
Alvord, "Kaskaskia Records, 1778-1790
Alvord, "Cahokia Records, 1778-1790
>Any possibility Samuel Moore turned up in them?=20
> Samuel was one of George Rogers Clark's spies for
> his raids on the three forts.=20
Different spelling. Speaking of GRC........."in 1777 he had sent two spies,=
=20
S. More and B. Linn, to Kaskaskia to investigate the situation. They=20
remained in the village some time, giving themselves out as hunters; but the=
y=20
failed to get into communication with the leaders of the opposition to=20
Rocheblave, because Clark had not informed even his spies of his purpose."
Clark's memoirs, letters and journals have also been published into one=20
volume, but I don't have it. You might be able to obtain some of the above=20
books through interlibrary loan as well.
Dave
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Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 06:45:24 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: records
Dave,
Thanks very much for the info. I have been back twice to do some
research
but didn't know about the records, I will get me a copy. The State
Historical Soc. in Springfield also had some early books which gave me
some new light on my family. The family is lucky to have the spring
(Bellefontaine) still around, but it is not kept up, a small cemetary
with James
and his family graves in it, along with a small monument telling about
the family
there and a 1/2 mile section on a old trail which is all that is not
plowed up
or paved over.
The time frame and where they lived didn't have much local
goverment- so
records and good information is hard to find. I know it was hard life
where
they settled. Nice to have ties to history in the family, but isn't that
what history is-
a collecton of personal experiences tied together to form a over all
view point?
Thanks again Dave.
mike.
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Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 07:41:07 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question
Dave,
There is no one rifle. What do you like but mostly what period and what you
portray.
Flintlock in my area 30% cap lock 70%
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: "cd252" <cd252@ptd.net>
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle question
>Date: Sun, Jul 1, 2001, 4:24 PM
>
>Hi,
>
>What brand and or type of rifle is the most commonly seen at the most recent
>Rendezvous
>
>Also what percentage are cap locks???
>
>
>Thanks,
>Big Dave
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 21:59:32 +0800
From: buck_conner@email.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July
Independence Day
Fourth of July
Being Independence Day 2001, Let's take a look at what our forefather's were up to on the Upper Missouri 1805. With the portage behind them, the Corps of Discovery celebrated their second Fourth of July of the journey with a meal of beans, suet dumplings, and heaping portions of buffalo meat, a ôvery comfortable dinner,ö Lewis wrote.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We had no just cause to covet the sumptuous feasts of our countrymen on this day......... . We have
conceived our party sufficiently small and therefore have concluded not to dispatch a canoe with a part
of the men to St. Louis as we had intended early in the spring. We fear also that such a measure might
possibly discourage those who would be in such case remain, and might possibly hazzard the fate of the
expedition................ MERIWETHER LEWIS
July 4th. A beautiful, clear, pleasant warm morning....It being the 4th of Independence, we drank the last
of our Spirits.... The fiddle [was] put in order, and the party amused themselves dancing all the evening
until about 10 oClock in a jovi[a]l manner. JOHN ORDWAY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Their supply of whiskey was running low, but the captains let the men finish it off as ôthey continued
their mirth with songs and festive jokes and were extremely merry until late at nightö.
They were was behind schedule. And off in the distance, they could now see the mountains that awaited them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The mountains to the N.W. and West of us are still entirely covered [with snow], are white and glitter with the reflection of the sun. I do not believe that the clouds that pervale at this season of the year reach the summits of those lofty mountains; and if they do the probability is that they deposit snow only, for there has been no p[er]ceptable diminution of the snow which they contain since we first saw them. I have thought it probable that these mountains migth have derived their appellation of SHINEING
MOUNTAINS from their glittering appearance when the sun shines in certain directions on the snow
which covers them. WILLIAM CLARK
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wonder how many of the hist_list camped in the Yellowstone area this year have seen these SHINEING MOUNTAINS as did William Clark, Meriwether Lewis and their group did a few years before !
