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hist_text-digest         Monday, April 9 2001         Volume 01 : Number 780



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Mt. men; sober, literate,and deeply religous?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mt. men; sober, literate,and deeply religous?
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: "James Patties West: The Dream and the Reality" by Batman.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Mt. men; sober, literate,and deeply religous?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: OT: Chronic wasting disease found on Saskatchewan elk farm--again
-áááááá MtMan-List: Parched Corn
-áááááá MtMan-List: dulcimers
-áááááá MtMan-List: sober, literate, and deeply religious?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: sober, literate, and deeply religious?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: dulcimers
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: dulcimers
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn
-áááááá MtMan-List: Looking for participants
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn
-áááááá MtMan-List: Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:03:56 -0500
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: sober, literate, and deeply religious?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn
-áááááá MtMan-List: news about Laura Glise
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

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Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 17:17:07 -0600
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Mt. men; sober, literate,and deeply religous?

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    I'm afraid that some of these crude, rough mountain men and western
travelers,
could put us to shame. Alot read and wrote poetry, made sense of
Shakepeare,
even talked about such subjects as the speed of light. (James Clyman,
page 63.)
    As far as Pattie is concerned, I would have to agree with Randy.
While many cast
a bad light on Pattie's writing, and wonder on the truefullness on his
recorded narrative.
I do believe that he could write. Page 171 of his book says that he
"finished the
translation of a number of letters"(from english to spanish). Just
because Timothy Flint
(the editor of this book) did help him write it, doesn't mean Pattie
couldn't read and write.
It just means that he may of wrote like Jacob Fowler or many of his
companions.
Having now just finished my first book, with all the editing, proper
style and
ways of doing things, a editor would be nice even for me.
    Other people you might recall that had a decent education:
George Ruxton, John townsend (a ornithologist- you can look it up if you
don't know
whatit is), William Anderson (had instructors in Greek and Latin),
individuals like
Charles Larpenteur and Etienne Provost, who were born aboard and came
onver, probably spoke two or more languages. In their cases, french and
english).
    While many could not speak or write a foreign langauge, they could
converse in
one or two indian dialects or indian sign language, which shows a mind
that could learn.
But may not of had the opportunity to be educated like others today.

                                    mike.


Lanney Ratcliff wrote:

> I don't know about the others Hard Tack listed, but James O. Pattie
> didn't write his own book.After borrowing money for passage from Vera
> Cruz where he was stranded, flat broke, after his adventures in the
> mountains (which in addition to being an abject failure, cost his
> father his life) Pattie met a newspaper man while traveling up the
> Mississippi and told his tale of his travels and adventures for
> publication.  There is serious doubt that Pattie's stories were all
> true insofar as his own participation was concerned.  He seems to have
> put himself at the scene of many important events (often in a heroic
> role) some of which occurred more or less simultaneously hundreds of
> miles apart.  There is no doubt that Pattie went west and "seed the
> varmint" and had many true stories to tell, but there is little doubt
> that he fleshed out his story to make himself look better.  Read about
> this slant on his "Narrative....." in "James Patties West: The Dream
> and the Reality" by Batman.YMOSLanney Ratcliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randal Bublitz
> To: [e-mail]: Sunday, April 08, 2001 12:00
> AMSubject: RE: MtMan-List: Mt. men; sober, literate,and deeply
> religous?
>
>
>      Tom,        As to your comments about... "educated mountain
>      men" .  There are many good first hand accounts available by
>      these "white savages"..  It is amazing to learn how educated
>      many of them where.  If we were to believe Hollywood's
>      version of history these books would be full of ' X s'.
>      Read;   Zenas Leonard, Osborne Russell, James Ohio Pattie,
>      Jim Kirker, James Clyman, Jed Smith, Rufus Sage, Lewis
>      Garrard, Gabriel Franchere, Charles Larpenter, etc.....
>      Lots of good writers among the Mountain of Old.....
>      hardtack
>

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<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    I'm afraid that some of these crude, rough mountain
men and western travelers,
<br>could put us to shame. Alot read and wrote poetry, made sense of Shakepeare,
<br>even talked about such subjects as the speed of light. (James Clyman,
page 63.)
<br>    As far as Pattie is concerned, I would have to agree
with Randy. While many cast
<br>a bad light on Pattie's writing, and wonder on the truefullness on
his recorded narrative.
<br>I do believe that he could write. Page 171 of his book says that he
"finished the
<br>translation of a number of letters"(from english to spanish). Just
because Timothy Flint
<br>(the editor of this book) did help him write it, doesn't mean Pattie
couldn't read and write.
<br>It just means that he may of wrote like Jacob Fowler or many of his
companions.
<br>Having now just finished my first book, with all the editing, proper
style and
<br>ways of doing things, a editor would be nice even for me.
<br>    Other people you might recall that had a decent
education:
<br>George Ruxton, John townsend (a ornithologist- you can look it up if
you don't know
<br>whatit is), William Anderson (had instructors in Greek and Latin),
individuals like
<br>Charles Larpenteur and Etienne Provost, who were born aboard and came
onver, probably spoke two or more languages. In their cases, french and
english).
<br>    While many could not speak or write a foreign langauge,
they could converse in
<br>one or two indian dialects or indian sign language, which shows a mind
that could learn.
<br>But may not of had the opportunity to be educated like others today.
<p>
mike.
<br>
<p>Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font size=-1>I don't know about
the others Hard Tack listed, but James O. Pattie didn't write his own book.</font><font size=-1>After
borrowing money for passage from Vera Cruz where he was stranded, flat
broke, after his adventures in the mountains (which in addition to being
an abject failure, cost his father his life) Pattie met a newspaper man
while traveling up the Mississippi and told his tale of his travels and
adventures for publication.  There is serious doubt that Pattie's
stories were all true insofar as his own participation was concerned.
He seems to have put himself at the scene of many important events (often
in a heroic role) some of which occurred more or less simultaneously hundreds
of miles apart.  There is no doubt that Pattie went west and "seed
the varmint" and had many true stories to tell, but there is little doubt
that he fleshed out his story to make himself look better.  Read about
this slant on his "Narrative....." in "James Patties West: The Dream and
the Reality" by Batman.</font><font size=-1>YMOS</font><font size=-1>Lanney
Ratcliff</font>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:[e-mail]" title="[e-mail]">Randal
Bublitz</a></div>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:[e-mail]" title="[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a><b>Sent:</b>
Sunday, April 08, 2001 12:00 AM<b>Subject:</b> RE: MtMan-List: Mt. men;
sober, literate,and deeply religous?</div>

<blockquote
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt Arial">Tom,
As to your comments about...<font size=-1> "educated mountain men" .
There are many good first hand accounts available by these "white savages"..
It is amazing to learn how educated many of them where.  If we were
to believe Hollywood's version of history these books would be full of
' X s'.  Read;   Zenas Leonard, Osborne Russell, James Ohio
Pattie, Jim Kirker, James Clyman, Jed Smith, Rufus Sage, Lewis Garrard,
Gabriel Franchere, Charles Larpenter, etc.....  Lots of good writers
among the Mountain of Old.....   hardtack</font></div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>

</body>
</html>

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Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:25:27 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mt. men; sober, literate,and deeply religous?

>
> Many writers on the Rocky Mountain fur trade have referred to "the College
> of the Rocky Mountains". > John
> ******************************************************
Osborn Russell makes reference to the Rocky Mountain College as the long
winter camp during 1836 - 1837 starting at the mouth of the Clarks Fork of
the Yellowstone River in October.  Moving up the north side of the
Yellowstone River over the next 5 months to above Valley Creek.  To leave
after forting up for the trapping streams toward the end of February.  I
think this is the original of the many references you note.  Walt


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Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 20:18:52 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: "James Patties West: The Dream and the Reality" by Batman.

For anyone interested, Mr. Batman will be the speaker at the Jedediah Smith
Socity Spring Breakfast comin up onApril 21, 2001 at the University of the
Pacific in Stockton, CA..  It is not too late to plan to attend.  Cost is
$10.00 per person.  Contact me off line for more info.

Jim Hardee, AMM #1676
P.O. box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971
[phone] (H)
[phone] (W)
[phone]FAX
[e-mail]

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Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 23:50:16 -0600
From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mt. men; sober, literate,and deeply religous?

Dr. Allen
Thank you, it was well put and very helpful.
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John L. Allen" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mt. men; sober, literate,and deeply religous?


> Ho, the list,
>
> In response to Tom Ballstaedt's excellent commentary on mountain man
> education:
>
> According to the statistical compilation in the last volume of Hafen's
> Mountain Men and the Fur Trade, the average mountain man was "educated
> enough to read and write". This does not mean that many of them had
college
> educations, as we would understand the meaning of that phrase today. Years
> ago, for an article in a professional journal, I did some work of my own
on
> mountain man educational attainments, using the Hafen books and other
> sources (journals, correspondence, etc.). Here is a summary of some of my
> results:
>
> 1) Mountain men were, on the average, better schooled than most Americans
of
> the period 1820-1840: that is, they had completed more years of education
> than the average American male of European extraction. (The contrast
between
> mountain men and the general American population becomes even more
striking
> because the total American population,  of course, includes females,
people
> of African or Indian descent--all of whom received considerably less
formal
> education than did white males).
>
> 2) Considering their primary areas of origin, Canada and the "Middle
Border"
> [western Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, southern Ohio-Indiana-Illinois,
> Missouri, and Arkansas] they were significantly better educated than the
> average for those areas. Compared with white males from the best educated
> area of the United States (New England), they were average.
>
> 3) 2.7% of mountain men had some college education, compared with 1.8% of
> the general population of the United States (I know that 1.8% sounds
> astoundingly low--but think on it--how many of your grandparents had
college
> educations?).
>
> Many writers on the Rocky Mountain fur trade have referred to "the College
> of the Rocky Mountains". To some fur trade writers, this means the
education
> received in wilderness ways, trapping, and raw survival. To others
> (including myself), it means the education obtained through the passing
> around of books, from the sharing of conversations about books, poetry
> reading, poetry and prose recitations (it was not uncommon for educated
> people of this period to have committed lengthy passages of many books,
> including the Bible, to memory). Much of this intellectual activity was
> viewed as recreation during the long winter months when outdoor activity
may
> have been at a minimum.
>
> Good commentary, Tom. Hope this addition has proved helpful.
>
> John
> ******************************************************
> Dr. John L. Allen
> 2703 Leslie Court
> Laramie, WY 82072-2979
> Phone: [phone]
> Fax: [phone]
> e-mail: [e-mail]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 12:41 AM
> Subject: MtMan-List: Mt. men; sober, literate,and deeply religous?
>
>
> > I've been reading "reckless breed of men".  the author made reference to
> > some, "educated mountain men" as he put it.  He states, "Peter Ogden
> > gathered his men daily for public prayers when they were on the march".
> > Harrison Rogers wrote, on new years day, Jedediah Smith delivered an
> address
> > "to the fathers of the san Gabriel mission" on the early history and
> > missionary activities of the Christian church that for diction, range of
> > knowledge, and scriptural allusion would have put to shame most
ministers
> > and priests. Others like Osborne Russell, one of four in his mess.  One
> was
> > from Missouri, one from Massachusetts, and one from Vermont. Russell
says
> he
> > passed an agreeable winter with nothing to do but procure fire wood, eat
> and
> > tend to the horses and read books such as Byron, Shakespeare, Scots
works,
> > the Bible and Clarks commentary on it, and other small works on geology,
> > chemistry and philosophy.  the author goes on to say that many trappers
> had
> > college educations. and carried news papers and magazines and many books
> > passed around so much, that they became worn and filthy.  Festinating
> stuff!
> > I was led to believe that educated men in the fur trade were rare.  Any
> body
> > else have anything add, or any comments?
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 23:39:32 -0700
From: "ALAN AVERY" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OT: Chronic wasting disease found on Saskatchewan elk farm--again

Angela,

It gets worse. The Chronic Wasting Disease has now been identified in the
Saskatchewan population of wild deer. Conservation Officers are concerned
that this development means the disease is now out of control. It is
important to note however that this disease is not known to be transferrable
to humans. It should also be noted that the Federal government was aware of
this disease, and could have nipped the outbreak in the bud with prompt
action, but they failed to heed the advise of their own experts and did
nothing, now it would appear that the situation is out of control. This is,
of course, the same government that says that firearms registration will
reduce crime, so I suppose one should not be too suprised at their failure
to "do the right thing".

Sorry all, I know I am off topic here and I apologize.


Black Knife

Alan Avery
- -----Original Message-----
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: April 8, 2001 7:11 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: OT: Chronic wasting disease found on Saskatchewan elk
farm--again


>  More animals have been ordered destroyed as a precaution on a farm where
>an                    outbreak of chronic wasting disease is believed to
>have started in Saskatchewan.
>  http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/view?/news/2001/04/07/elk_010407
>
>Your humble &c &c
>Angela Gottfred
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 02:56:01 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

I have heard that canned corn, (Libby's?) if done right will make fair
parched corn. Has anyone tried it, and how would it be done?

Ymos,
Magpie

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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 07:41:25 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: dulcimers

Jerry Strobel asked,

    <Can
anyone please provide info that mountain dulcimers existed prior to or
during the first decades of the nineteenth century 1800-1840's.>

    Jerry
    If you contact the Dulcimer Shope in Mountain View, Arkansas they will
be able to provide the answers for you. But, I believe you are correct. I
believe the dulcimer as we know it is an Appalachian/Ozark creation that is
simply an evolvement from earlier musical instruments and came into
existance on its own in the mid to late 1800s.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders



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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:03:09 -0500
From: "Best, Dianne" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: sober, literate, and deeply religious?

Wow! I am amazed at almost 3% educated!

Prior to the public school system (mid 1800's) in Canada only priests and
nobility had access to education. Even in my father's era (post 1910),
anything beyond grade 3 or 4 was unusual.

I am surprised so many frontiersmen had so much education! I would have
thought that being able to read, write, and "figure" would have opened
lucrative careers for them back east?

Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)


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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:59:53 -0400
From: "D. Miles" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: sober, literate, and deeply religious?

"would have opened lucrative careers for them back east?"


>>Probably, but then, as well as now, there are those that don't fit into
"polite society" and its constraining rules. Men that HAVE to see what is
over the horizen, on the opther side of that hill
&ct.  Wealth,  power & social status means damned little to some.
D



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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:41:23 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: dulcimers

jerry
contact me offline---I have a autoharp thats the thing with a keyboard
that i might want to get rid of not in too bad a condition made in the
1890's has the tag inside the instrument and marked on the
outside---everything there and even close to being in tune---one string
is missing---

    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce        "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line "  trademark (C)
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor florida 34684        Phone Number:  1-727-771-1815
E-Mail: [e-mail]   Web site:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 11:45:53 -0500
From: Monte Holder <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: dulcimers

All this talk about dulcimers reminds me of Jim Colburn who used to be on
this list.  Anybody heard from him lately?  or knows how to get in touch with
him?  I would greatly appreciate a reply.  We had some dulcimer discussions
some time ago.

Monte Holder
Saline CO MO
[e-mail]


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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:52:23 -0700
From: "ALAN AVERY" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

Magpie,

I have tried parching canned corn, and have not had very good results. I
qwas told that this is because of the sugar content of the corn, (most
canned corn has added sugar). I was advised to try fresh corn, and I have
had much better luck with it. I do it in the oven at low heat over a few
hours. To be honest, last year I did not bother, I just bought some dried
corn from Crazy Crow, (it's pretty cheap, and I cannot tell the difference
between it and the stuff that I did.)

YMOS

Black Knife

Alan Avery
- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: April 8, 2001 11:56 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Parched Corn


I have heard that canned corn, (Libby's?) if done right will make fair
parched corn. Has anyone tried it, and how would it be done?

Ymos,
Magpie

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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:36:35 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Looking for participants

I received the message below a couple weeks ago.  Perhaps there is someone in
the Independence, Mo. area that would be interested in getting in touch with
this individual and get something going.  If you are interested please do not
reply to the list.  Reply to:    [e-mail]

Longshot


*********************************************************
*********************************************************
Subj:   Re: rendezvous
Date:   4/6/01 11:32:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:   [e-mail]
To: LODGEPOLE

Hello, I'm the library media specialist at Jim Bridger Eighth Grade Center in
Independence, MO. ------( stuff deleted )----- On March 17, 2004, we will be
celebrating Jim Bridger's 200th birthday and it would be fantastic if we
could find a group of mountain men who would like to rendezvous in
Independence as part of the festivities.
*********************************************************
*********************************************************

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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:34:43 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

Padre Rolf,

Thanks for taking the time to dig out this information but may I
respectfully suggest that there is some question remaining as to what it
means?

There certainly is no doubt that European trappers, etc. wore mocs and
leggings. They are widely pictured in Miller's field sketches being worn (as
to mocs) with pantaloons and etc. and the legging is a common enough garment
shown being worn over pantaloons and even more likely, knee britches.

The information below shows two kinds of leggings on account but are they
Indian leggings or the common legging worn by the aforementioned trapper
over European leg wear?

The reference you share about breech clouts demonstrates that they were sold
in commerce amongst traders and trappers but for what purpose? Were these
buyers using them as personal wear (which is possible) or were they using
them as gifts or goods to be traded. I would imagine cloth breech clouts to
be a desirable item of clothing by Native Americans.

So how well have we really answered the question beyond the few notables
that were recently mentioned who were known to dress Indian, which in my
mind is something more than just wearing leggings and mocs but probably
includes the breech clout, war shirt etc?

And a further thought. Were those breech clouts an outer garment as the
Indian wore them or were they an undergarment as worn by certain cultures
around the world as late as the Second World War? (Japanese soldiers used
them)

Capt. Lahti'


Sept. 21, 1826
        John Gaiter               Debit
        1 pair sheep skin leggins         $1.50
        1 Deer Skin                                   $1.25

Oct. 24, 1826
        Abraham Laplant     Credit
        By difference in Breech
        Cloths  250 cts-------                   $2.50

also a couple of credits for "Mockasons"








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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:24:43 -0700
From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

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I've heard that frozen corn works well for making parched corn...
hardtack

- ---
Randal Bublitz
- --- [e-mail]

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<DIV>I've heard that frozen corn works well for making parched corn...  hardtack</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">--- Randal Bublitz</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
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Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 17:32:11 -0700
From: Vic Barkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

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Yes, it does. Cast Iron skillet over low heat until golden brown and
crunchy. Then salt to taste.
I buy the five pound bag. I've done fresh corn that way too, but it
is much cheaper to use the frozen stuff...unless you have a cornfield
nearby, which I do not.

B Dawg

>I've heard that frozen corn works well for making parched corn...  hardtack
>
>--- Randal Bublitz
>
>--- <mailto:[e-mail]>[e-mail]
>

- --
Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin
Powderhorn Clan newsletter Editor
AMM #1537 Three Rivers Party

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 --></style><title>Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn</title></head><body>
<div>Yes, it does. Cast Iron skillet over low heat until golden brown
and crunchy. Then salt to taste.</div>
<div>I buy the five pound bag. I've done fresh corn that way too, but
it is much cheaper to use the frozen stuff...unless you have a
cornfield nearby, which I do not.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>B Dawg</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I've heard that frozen corn works well
for making parched corn...  hardtack<br>
<blockquote>--- Randal Bublitz<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>--- <a
href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a
></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<div><br></div>

<div>-- <br>
Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin<br>
Powderhorn Clan newsletter Editor<br>
AMM #1537 Three Rivers Party</div>
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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:03:04 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:03:56 -0500

According to the latest information I have, Laura  Jean Glise will have
surgery for her brain tumor tomorrow morning.  Those so inclined might
include her in your prayers.
Lanney Ratcliff


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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:27:14 -0600
From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: sober, literate, and deeply religious?

I think we may be leaving an important element out as to why educated men
may have went west.  what do bright minds, educated or not for that matter,
crave?  TRUE ADVENTURE!  Challenge,Social notoriety and Bragging rights.
William Drummond Stewart a man with wealth, and arguably the best European
education money could buy.  He came out west at great expense and Zero
profit, several times!  An isolated case?  Yes, but was profit the only
motivation for  men of means Like Stewart, Nathaniel Wyeth or others, not
necessarily rich, but educated, and with bright futures in civilized society
.  To greatly risk ones safety for profit is not good business.
What do ya'll think?   Tom

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Best, Dianne" <[e-mail]>
To: "'MountainMan Digest'" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:03 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: sober, literate, and deeply religious?


> Wow! I am amazed at almost 3% educated!
>
> Prior to the public school system (mid 1800's) in Canada only priests and
> nobility had access to education. Even in my father's era (post 1910),
> anything beyond grade 3 or 4 was unusual.
>
> I am surprised so many frontiersmen had so much education! I would have
> thought that being able to read, write, and "figure" would have opened
> lucrative careers for them back east?
>
> Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)
>
>
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> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: dave tonneman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

After much experimentation this winter into parching of corn I can say that:
frozen corn: dried in dehydrator=rocks
canned corn ditto
purchased mountain house dehyd. corn parched ok...
but the best results where with what is sold locally as "squirrel corn" 12
ears in a plastic bag. Flint corn none the less. already dried on the cob,
parched the best. Also very obtainable around here.
jm.02$
Dave Tonneman Glenford, Ohio





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Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:10:10 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

Sweet (eatin') corn works well.  Field (feed) corn is less than
delicious.  Any corn if first dried takes less time to parch.

If you have a big cornfield nearby be certain of what kind of corn they are
a growing.  The kind grown for syrup tastes the worst off the cob.

The bigger and sweeter the kernel you start with the tastier the parched
corn you end up with.  Kind of like everything else; garbage in, garbage out.

John...


At 05:32 PM 4/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Yes, it does. Cast Iron skillet over low heat until golden brown and
>crunchy. Then salt to taste.
>I buy the five pound bag. I've done fresh corn that way too, but it is
>much cheaper to use the frozen stuff...unless you have a cornfield nearby,
>which I do not.
>
>B Dawg
>
>>I've heard that frozen corn works well for making parched corn...  hardtack
>>--- Randal Bublitz

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:15:52 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: news about Laura Glise

I just hear from Laura Jean.  Her plans have changed......to the better.
Her surgery has been postponed until Thursday morning at Duke University
Hospital in Durham, NC (see below for address & phone # ....use the patient
care info # only, please don't try to call her directly) with the best
surgeon in the country doing the work.   A real wizard, by all accounts.
She will travel tomorrow and will be in the hospital at least 10 days, maybe
a little more.
She said that the doctors in Washington have told her that if a person had
to have a brain tumor, the one she has is in the best possible location to
reach, and that they are optimistic
She asked me to convey to all of you who have sent her personal notes that
she is gratified and humbled by your concern....mentioning Griz Hayward and
George Thompson by name.  She said that there have been many, many others,
too many to recall all the names.   She said that her mama raised her with
proper social skills and that she will answer every note and letter she
receives.  She says the strength and confidence she has gained from this is
astounding.  She is in excellent spirits and is eager to get this done.  ("I
want to get this sob out of my head!!") She doesn't have the slightest hint
of dread at all in her voice.  She will have with her a medicine bag with
some powerful talismans inside, including hair from the buffalo eaten at the
Gros Ventre rendezvous in '99.  She asked that you continue to remember her
in your prayers and to know that she feels you reaching out to her, helping
her get through this with more ease than she imagined possible.  She sends
her love.
Since she will be out of pocket for so long she requested that you not send
email for a while (to avoid the daunting task of sorting through so many
emails) and you will most certainly know when she gets back on line.
Of course, I will post any information I receive.

Lanney Ratcliff

Duke University Hospital
Erwin Road
Durham, NC  27710
919 684 8111
Patient Condition Information
919 684 2410




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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 21:12:38 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parched Corn

Magpie,

I missed your strong pilgrim back on the canoe in to the Palouse this
weekend let me tell you! <G>

Get yourself some ears of sweet corn at the market. Dry them out how ever
you want (dehydrate them) until the kernels are withered and ready to rub
off the cob. Rub a couple ears free of their dry kernels into a cast iron
skillet. Stir over medium to high heat and be careful of burning. The
Kernels will swell up and look puffy. Some might even split or slightly pop
but that usually won't happen unless it is Indian Corn (hard kernels).

Let it cool and the kernels will retain their puffy shape. You could stir in
some maple sugar or brown sugar but if it is sweet corn it will come out
sweet and a bit chewy. Good luck and have fun. See you down the trail.

Capt. Lahti'



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