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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #778 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, April 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 778 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Leather Breaches & Period Eye Glasses -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings -áááááá MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:31:45 -0500 -áááááá MtMan-List: Gone to the Mountains -áááááá MtMan-List: Gone to the Mountains -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Gone to the Mountains -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Gone to the Mountains -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Leather Breaches & Period Eye Glasses -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: medalions -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Leather Breaches & Period Eye Glasses -áááááá MtMan-List: Are dulcimers correct for period... -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Are dulcimers correct for period... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:44:38 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) In a message dated 4/5/1 12:01:18 PM, shootsprairie@hotmail.com writes: <<So, if I have lived with the Crows for a long period of time, would I be > correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings > and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns? > Trapper,>> Remember: If you are a trapper/mountain man, you do not wear a "uniform" but rather you wear working clothes of the period. When something gives out you replace it with whatever is handy. If you can get it at rendezvous it will be the back east style of the day. If you have it made in the mountains, it will most likely be the same pattern as what you wore out but made by Indian tailoring techniques. You will probably have bags and trappings of the people you live with - not just to have them as a badge of belonging, but because it is something you need or something you need to keep"things" in. Even Sioux and Blackfoot might carry Crow stuff if it had been taken in battle or on a raid. If you have married into the Indian world but stay a trapper - the marriage is still pretty much one of convenience and your ties are to the other trappers, rendezvous, and one day returning to the States. If you want to go "Injun". a la "Little Big Man" - then you go full tilt IF they will accept you. RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:55:34 EDT From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings - --part1_6a.ccc1514.27fe27b6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I realize the original question was in reference to using canvas to make leggings which if done as a decorative native america style may not be authentic. But if you wanted to achieve the protection of leggings and use canvas or Russian Sheeting it would be appropriate for a person that had a military back ground. Several units in the Rev War had canvas "Gaiters" which went above the knee and buttoned up the side. Length and painted, dyed or plain depended on the unit. Page 167 of the Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution by: Neumann and Kravic shows German grenadiers wearing dark colored canvas Gaiters. Y.M.O.S. C.T. - --part1_6a.ccc1514.27fe27b6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>I realize the original question was in reference to using canvas to make leggings which if done as a decorative native america style may not be authentic. But if you wanted to achieve the protection of leggings and use canvas or Russian Sheeting it would be appropriate for a person that had a military back ground. Several units in the Rev War had canvas "Gaiters" which went above the knee and buttoned up the side. Length and painted, dyed or plain depended on the unit. Page 167 of the Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution by: Neumann and Kravic shows German grenadiers wearing dark colored canvas Gaiters. Y.M.O.S. C.T.</HTML> - --part1_6a.ccc1514.27fe27b6_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:22:19 EDT From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leather Breaches & Period Eye Glasses - --part1_104.1566dae.27fe2dfb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Most of the deer hide that were harvested (you remember it costs a BUCK) were shipped to England in the pre Rev War days. The British guilds (read that unions) had protectionist laws that made it illegal for the provincials to create "Finished" goods. Provicials were to secure and grow raw goods to be finished in mother England then shipped back to them and sold for a profit. If you research the origins of the Rev War you will find that this was one of the causes of discontent. And in fact created the Home Spun look which was a mark of pride for the Wigs during the revolution. But from the early colonial days thru the 1700 riding breechs were leather usually buff color (off white to light tan). Somewhere I have documentation of George Washington'w deershin breeches but I can not lay my hands on it at the moment. As my wife and I ride horses and do Eastern F&I and Rev War and Long Hunter I am currently on a mission to get enough matched bark tanned deer shins to have a proper set of leather button fly (French Fly) 1750's breeches made. A while back someone on the list asked about getting prescription lenses for period frames done via mail order/phone. I have never used him but Don Griffin, 1738 E. Third St., #346, Williamsport Pa 17701 (570-322-9849) advertizes this service. He is an Optomitrist according to the ad I have from Smoke & Fire News. Sorry it took so long to find the info but my wife and I tend to hog the latest copy and it was her turn. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes - --part1_104.1566dae.27fe2dfb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>Most of the deer hide that were harvested (you remember it costs a BUCK) were shipped to England in the pre Rev War days. The British guilds (read that unions) had protectionist laws that made it illegal for the provincials to create "Finished" goods. Provicials were to secure and grow raw goods to be finished in mother England then shipped back to them and sold for a profit. If you research the origins of the Rev War you will find that this was one of the causes of discontent. And in fact created the Home Spun look which was a mark of pride for the Wigs during the revolution. But from the early colonial days thru the 1700 riding breechs were leather usually buff color (off white to light tan). Somewhere I have documentation of George Washington'w deershin breeches but I can not lay my hands on it at the moment. As my wife and I ride horses and do Eastern F&I and Rev War and Long Hunter I am currently on a mission to get enough matched bark tanned deer shins to have a proper set of leather button fly (French Fly) 1750's breeches made. A while back someone on the list asked about getting prescription lenses for period frames done via mail order/phone. I have never used him but Don Griffin, 1738 E. Third St., #346, Williamsport Pa 17701 (570-322-9849) advertizes this service. He is an Optomitrist according to the ad I have from Smoke & Fire News. Sorry it took so long to find the info but my wife and I tend to hog the latest copy and it was her turn. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes</HTML> - --part1_104.1566dae.27fe2dfb_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 18:51:43 EDT From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings In a message dated 4/5/01 6:44:44 AM, olebjensen@earthlink.net writes: << Magpie, How about a phone number and address? >> Hallo Ole, I see where Manbear has given you the web site...a bit more into the Long Hunter period, but a good source. Check out the "Trading Post"... I think that's where Gene Hickman picked up the Pappy Horn 1803 Harpers Ferry....beautiful gun! (I've seen it) Ymos, Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:30:21 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:31:45 -0500 Ho the list > I talked to Laura Glise tonight. She is scheduled for surgery on Tuesday. > She sounded reasonably up-beat, but a little frightened. The shock is > apparently wearing off a little if her attitude is any indication. She > sounded pretty good, actually. She won't use the computer because she gets > confused easily and she is afraid she will not be able to make herself > understood properly. So, continue to send your best wishes by email and > snail mail, but remember NO PHONE CALLS. (She calls me, I don't call her) > She may not respond to any mail for a while, but she appreciates the kind > thoughts and sends her love. > Lanney Ratcliff ps: Those so inclined might include her in your prayers. > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:34:58 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Gone to the Mountains Friends and Brothers, Brother Rick Tabor has arrived from his strenuous trip down the Willamette, and up the Columbia to my humble post here at the confluence of the Snake, Columbia and Tapteal, with a stop at Ft. Vancouver for supplies. We area ready to depart up the Snake R. to the mouth of the Palouse where we will scout the region for beaver and hostiles. The weather is blustery and unsettled, promising a most interesting voyage. We hope to meet with others and share intelligence on the area and conduct some important Company Business. Wish us well and a safe journey. I will report back to you upon our safe arrival back at this post in the hopefully not too distant future. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:34:58 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Gone to the Mountains Friends and Brothers, Brother Rick Tabor has arrived from his strenuous trip down the Willamette, and up the Columbia to my humble post here at the confluence of the Snake, Columbia and Tapteal, with a stop at Ft. Vancouver for supplies. We area ready to depart up the Snake R. to the mouth of the Palouse where we will scout the region for beaver and hostiles. The weather is blustery and unsettled, promising a most interesting voyage. We hope to meet with others and share intelligence on the area and conduct some important Company Business. Wish us well and a safe journey. I will report back to you upon our safe arrival back at this post in the hopefully not too distant future. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 15:32:34 From: "Kevin Pitman" <kpmtnman@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gone to the Mountains I would love to have a copy of your detailed account of your journey, when you have compiled it. Let me know the cost of your "journal" YMOS, Kevin Pitman >From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: <hist_text@xmission.com>, <mlml-owner@list.vnet.net>, ><hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: MtMan-List: Gone to the Mountains >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:34:58 -0700 > >Friends and Brothers, > >Brother Rick Tabor has arrived from his strenuous trip down the Willamette, >and up the Columbia to my humble post here at the confluence of the Snake, >Columbia and Tapteal, with a stop at Ft. Vancouver for supplies. > >We area ready to depart up the Snake R. to the mouth of the Palouse where >we >will scout the region for beaver and hostiles. The weather is blustery and >unsettled, promising a most interesting voyage. We hope to meet with others >and share intelligence on the area and conduct some important Company >Business. > >Wish us well and a safe journey. I will report back to you upon our safe >arrival back at this post in the hopefully not too distant future. I >remain..... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:53:59 EDT From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gone to the Mountains In a message dated 4/6/01 8:30:41 AM, rtlahti@email.msn.com writes: << Wish us well and a safe journey. I will report back to you upon our safe arrival back at this post in the hopefully not too distant future. I remain..... >> You boys have great fun! Had I known that Frog was going under, I'd have changed my schedule to lead a party upriver to meet you. Oh despair...... Ymos, Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 19:40:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Buck Conner <buck_conner@email.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leather Breaches & Period Eye Glasses From: CTOAKES@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: April 5, 2001 8:22:19 PM GMT Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leather Breaches But from the early colonial days thru the 1700 riding breechs were leather usually buff color (off white to light tan). Somewhere I have documentation of George Washington'w deershin breeches but I can not lay my hands on it at the moment. As my wife and I ride horses and do Eastern F&I and Rev War and Long Hunter I am currently on a mission to get enough matched bark tanned deer shins to have a proper set of leather button fly (French Fly) 1750's breeches made. _______________________________ Mr. Oaks I have a pair of buff color (off white) breeches that are believed to have belonged to Marino Medina and last worn by his son Louis Papa at the turn of the century or right after it from newspaper photos of him riding his white horse and wearing the breeches at a Loveland Colo. parade in the early 1900's. Medina was very proud of his commerical tanned coat and breeches that where manufactured in a factory in St Louis MO or possibly CA from what Charley Hanson figured. So if your doing fur trade period, breeches would fit right in, for years we always figured this covering was much earlier and not proper. Thanks for your time, take care. Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:50:33 EDT From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: medalions In a message dated 4/4/01 4:15:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jbrandl@wyoming.com writes: << a source to produce medallions >> Joe, Try Joann Ford, P.O.Box 325, Red Lodge, Montana (406) 446-1307. She produces the medallions for a both the Laguna and Manzanita Rendezvous events here in So. Cal, and they are truly collectibles. Hope this is of some help. Barney - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 01:04:43 -0500 From: Terry Behm <TBehm@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) >How many examples can you find in the historical record (journals, etc.)= that mention trappers etc. going Indian? Capt. Lahti'< In Harrison Rodgers Daybook (from Brooks, Southwest Expedition of Jed Smith) Rodgers lists the following in his Account book: Sept. 21, 1826 John Gaiter Debit 1 pair sheep skin leggins $1.50 1 Deer Skin $1.25 Oct. 24, 1826 Abraham Laplant Credit By difference in Breech Cloths 250 cts------- $2.50 = also a couple of credits for "Mockasons" This would seem to indicate that at least some of Jed Smith's men wore breechcloth/leggings, also, if memory serves, I think Pattie talks about breechcloths/leggings. Terry -- Padre Rolf - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 08:16:54 -0700 From: Vic Barkin <Victor.Barkin@NAU.EDU> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Pattie does talk about leggings prior to going to a fandango. His quote was something like: "We were dressed not unlike our indian bretheren, with shirt and leggings of deerskin and the customary red loincloth..." I'd have to take the book out of the libarary again to see what the exact wording was, but if some one does have the Narratives of James Ohio Pattie, maybe they can look it up. Barkin Dawg > >How many examples can you find in the historical record (journals, etc.) >that mention trappers etc. going Indian? > >Capt. Lahti'< > >In Harrison Rodgers Daybook (from Brooks, Southwest Expedition of Jed >Smith) Rodgers lists the following in his Account book: > >Sept. 21, 1826 > John Gaiter Debit > 1 pair sheep skin leggins $1.50 > 1 Deer Skin $1.25 > >Oct. 24, 1826 > Abraham Laplant Credit > By difference in Breech > Cloths 250 cts------- $2.50 > >also a couple of credits for "Mockasons" > >This would seem to indicate that at least some of Jed Smith's men wore >breechcloth/leggings, also, if memory serves, I think Pattie talks about >breechcloths/leggings. > >Terry -- Padre Rolf > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - -- Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin Powderhorn Clan newsletter Editor AMM #1537 Three Rivers Party - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 13:36:33 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leather Breaches & Period Eye Glasses buck you got a real treasure there in the leather breaches---how about a pair of pony express saddle bags and a will willing them to me and with the riders name and date of his first ride on the inside--- Nuff said--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 19:27:02 From: "jerry strobel" <kes49@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Are dulcimers correct for period... I have been able to do a little research, but can only put dulcimers (mountain not hammered ones)back dated to the mid nineteenth century. Can anyone please provide info that mountain dulcimers existed prior to or during the first decades of the nineteenth century 1800-1840's. Thank you Y.M.O.S. Jerry Strobel _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 17:37:50 -0400 From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Are dulcimers correct for period... There was a great deal of history written about the dulcimers in old issues of the Blackpowder Times and I think in the old Buckskin Report. I do not have the articles now. But as an old time player of the instrument I can say that they were not really found in today's form west of the Miss. They are mostly a Appalachian instrument brought over in some form from Europe. Darn, I wish I could remember the names and dates. The old ones were 3 string and then they got elaborate with 4 and up to 6 string. They are technically allowed as they do fit the period especially when doing colonial events. But then I hope not to see a saxophone as I did once at a Western Rend. Early instruments can be dated to 1750...and I have seen them as just a basic rectangular box with what look like just plain wire for strings. There is a good Dulcimer college to go to in Western NC. and they hold several all over the country. Just threw my flier away or I could tell you more. Linda Holley....owner of 3 Dulcimers. jerry strobel wrote: > I have been able to do a little research, but can only put dulcimers > (mountain not hammered ones)back dated to the mid nineteenth century. Can > anyone please provide info that mountain dulcimers existed prior to or > during the first decades of the nineteenth century 1800-1840's. Thank you > Y.M.O.S. Jerry Strobel > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #778 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.