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hist_text-digest        Thursday, April 5 2001        Volume 01 : Number 777



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Rivercane& Falling Leaves Rendezvous
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous
-áááááá MtMan-List: medalions
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: medalions
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane
-áááááá MtMan-List: Leather Breaches
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:02:55 -0300
From: "D. Miles" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

Ole,
 You are correct about not all leather being braintanned that was available.
Just off the top of my head that would be very suitable for clothes is
vegatable & oiltanned. Both suitable for breeches.  No chrome tan, to my
knowlege. Natural tanned skins only. I guess alum would be okay, if properly
broken & oiled. I have worn a pair of oiltanned leggins for years, a little
warm in the Summer, but they have worn like iron, only now starting to
deteriorate at the bottoms.
D #1622


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Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:58:17 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

This would lead me to think
> that there were leather breaches available that were not made of brain
tan!
> YMOS
> Ole # 718

Ole,

I have come across enough casual mentions of "home tanning" operations going
on in the Eastern US during and before the era of the RMFT to be convinced
that many different types of "commercially tanned" leathers were available
as an aside from "brain tan" for use by households/farms and as a "cash
crop" to be sold or traded to others. Now if your replacing worn out
clothing in the Mt.s it is quite reasonable to assume that it would be with
"Indian dressed" leather.

Capt. Lahti'



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Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:41:42 -0600
From: Ferrell A Peterson <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Rivercane& Falling Leaves Rendezvous

Ho the list!

The River Cane & Falling Leaves Rendezvous are, like has been said,
primitive skills gatherings where you can learn everything from brain
tanning (using both primitive and modern tools) to making self-bows,
arrows, chipping arrowheads, primitive cooking, making moccasins, traps
and snares, bow-drill & hand-drill fires, and the list could go on
forever.

These are not juried events.  The emphasis is on learning skills that
stretch from the RMFT era back 5,000 or so years.  The instructors are
truly some of the best primitive skill practitioners around.  The
Rivercane is held in April and the Falling Leaves in mid October.

They are held at Unicoi State Park near Helen, Georgia.  Your contact is
Darry Wood.  His phone is 828-389-6428.

If you choose to go, you'll meet a lot of good people and learn a lot of
new skills. Hope this helps,

YMOS,
Otter
Poison River Party Pilgrim

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Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:56:55 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous

In a message dated 4/3/1 07:37:38 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Does anyone here in the southeast know much about this rendezvous
(Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rend.)?  Dates?  Juried?  >>

Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who would be
willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts?  No?  Yes?? how will you
trade?

Richard James

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Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:38:10 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

In a message dated 4/4/1 06:57:19 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< This would lead me to think
that there were leather breaches available that were not made of brain tan!>>

Right! More than just Indians knew how to tan in those days.  They were
"slick in", rough out.  Many started out the brown of the tannin and some
were dyed to begin with.  Others were dyed to cover up "stains & crud" that
accumulated later (in lieu of "take it to the cleaners")  If you want chapter
and verse references - aside from "Rural Penna Clothing" - I pumped this out
of Dave Kafton a while back.  He has the references.
Dick James

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:09:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous

> Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who would be
>  willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts?  No?  Yes?? how will you
>  trade?

Richard,
Pose the same question to CaneRunner on MLML.  He can probably get you some.

Dave Kanger

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:51:38 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous

Richard,

Howdy relative.

I have some rivercane that is cut down  for arrows if you want some.  Next
time I go down to the swamps I will cut you a mess of it.  Longest I can
ship is 70".

Frank


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous


>
> In a message dated 4/3/1 07:37:38 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> <<Does anyone here in the southeast know much about this rendezvous
> (Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rend.)?  Dates?  Juried?  >>
>
> Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who would
be
> willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts?  No?  Yes?? how will you
> trade?
>
> Richard James
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 05:15:34 -0600
From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: medalions

Looking for a source to produce medallions for an event here in Aug.
Need at least 300
thanks
joe
- --
Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:51:50 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Brad Everett)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

So, if I have lived with the Crows for a long period of time, would I be
correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings
and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns?
Trapper,
 Trek'n through time, backwards!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)


RMFT . Now if your replacing worn out
> clothing in the Mt.s it is quite reasonable to assume that it would be
with
> "Indian dressed" leather.
> Capt. Lahti'

>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:20:02 -0500
From: "Paul W. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: medalions

Joe,

Try Philippe Dewailly at Artisans Jewelry.  He did the medallions for the
Western at Pole Bridge the last time it was held on that site (a Gorget).

Really quite the artist and a fourth or fifth generation jeweler, originally
from Beligum.

You may contact him at 512 452-7416 in Austin, Texas.

Regards,

Paul

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 6:15 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: medalions


> Looking for a source to produce medallions for an event here in Aug.
> Need at least 300
> thanks
> joe
> --
> Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:33:56 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Everett" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)


> So, if I have lived with the Crows for a long period of time, would I be
> correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings
> and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns?

Trapper,

How many examples can you find in the historical record (journals, etc.)
that mention trappers etc. going Indian?

Capt. Lahti'



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:43:04 -0600
From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

I read somewhere that alum tan was pretty common.  as well as veg. tan of
all sorts and of course oil tan.  the use of chromium sulfate in tanning
came around in the 1880's
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)


> Tom,
> I have been silent for a while, but have found some interesting info. A
book
> I have had for a long time is dedicated to clothing used in America from
> 1400 till 1900, In one section it shows uniforms and men's clothing wore
> during the 1750's to 1800's. One of the uniforms was worn with "leather
Knee
> Breaches made of comercialy available materials. This would lead me to
think
> that there were leather breaches available that were not made of brain
tan!
> YMOS
> Ole # 718
> ----------
> >From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
> >Date: Tue, Apr 3, 2001, 4:19 PM
> >
>
> >Iam inclined to point out that the style my friend made his canvas
leggings
> >in, is more of a white man's gaitor type with no decoration of any sort.
> >they are purely utilitarian in style.
> >Tom
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
> >
> >
> >> Hi chris check the list arcives there is a lot of imfo. on russia
> >sheeting.
> >> I have a friend who does an eastern/lewis and clark personna.  he made
> >some
> >> eastern style leggings out of some hemp canvas.  they look damn nice.
he
> >> says he likes them for warmer weather and they are a lot lighter the
his
> >> leather ones.
> >> tom
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Angela Gottfred" <[e-mail]>
> >> To: <[e-mail]>
> >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:38 PM
> >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
> >>
> >>
> >> > "Wynn Ormond" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >> > >    I see it in my four year olds play already, some teasing is
meant
> >to
> >> > > distance and hurt but most of it is intended to breakdown barriers
not
> >> > > build them. But it might be hard to tell the difference if you are
on
> >> the
> >> > > receiving end ..
> >> >
> >> > Yes. Impossible, even.
> >> >
> >> > "ALAN AVERY" <[e-mail]> wote:
> >> >  >> Ya got to have a sense of humour right? ...I know a gal who once
> >> > dropped a toasted  marshmellow down her cleavage, and has been known
> >ever
> >> > since as Sticky Tits!<<
> >> >
> >> > If she's still in the hobby, she must have one heckuva sense of
humor,
> >and
> >> > I salute her.
> >> >
> >> > But I wasn't talking about newbies, or hazing; I'm talking about
things
> >> > like C. T. Oakes' problem.
> >> >
> >> > C. T. wrote that he made a pair of brown denim pants, for which he
had
> >> good
> >> > documentation. His "friends", who surely knew about his
documentation,
> >> took
> >> > to calling him "Carhartts" because they thought it was funny.
Finally,
> >he
> >> > gave up and left the pants at home; the teasing had taken all the fun
> >out
> >> > of wearing them.
> >> >
> >> > For my husband and I, the teasing started after we'd been in this
hobby
> >> for
> >> > a couple of years. We pitch a wedge tent to use in the daytime, but
we
> >> > don't sleep in it; we use our RV instead. So, at every event, our
> >> > buckskinning "friends" would make pointed remarks about our sleeping
> >> > arrangements. We politely explained why we weren't using the
> >> > tent--repeatedly--but every day, at every event, the same people
would
> >> > bring this up. This went on for *two years*. After these folks found
a
> >> > couple of other things to harp on, we finally had enough. It just
wasn't
> >> > fun anymore, and we stopped going to events.
> >> >
> >> > We were told that several other folks were also teased to the point
> >where
> >> > they, too, quit this group.
> >> >
> >> > Your very humble & most obedient servant,
> >> > Angela Gottfred
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----------------------
> >> > hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------
> >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:46:06 -0600
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

Roger,
    I say the following not trying to start another war ("if mountain men wore
leggins "discussion), but off the top of my head, at least three. Jim Beckwourth

(lived with the Crow and dressed the part when fighting), Francis Parkman's
traveling companion Reynal (a frenchman who had a Indian wife) and even
Lewis Garrard (when having a new pair of pants made by Jim Smith's
Indian wife). If you mention the half breeds whose fathers were trappers and
white, but decided to live in the tribe and carry on trade with their fathers
friends,
(like John Smith's son) you could increase the number by leaps and bounds.
    I don't believe that most of the trappers used regular Indian leggings, but
to
say that none did in the west, is incorrect.
                                                            mike.

Roger Lahti wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brad Everett" <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
>
> > So, if I have lived with the Crows for a long period of time, would I be
> > correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings
> > and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns?
>
> Trapper,
>
> How many examples can you find in the historical record (journals, etc.)
> that mention trappers etc. going Indian?
>
> Capt. Lahti'
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:41:04 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

[e-mail] writes:

<< would I be correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they
do? Leggings and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow
patterns? >>

Who is your "prototype," J.P. Beckwourth? It is a romantic scenario that you
propose for your persona, but was it really that common or realistic. Maybe
as a trader living among the Crow and actually working for one of the
"companies," like American Fur Company out of Fort Union? Did the "Anglos"
living among the tribes really adopt much of the native clothing? A native
wife might want to enhance her husband's wardrobe with decoration, whether it
be quill work, hair, beads, embroidery, ribbons, etc. If so it would probably
not be his everyday clothing, but those garments reserved for ceremonial or
dress up occasions. Many native women made clothing for various Anglos, but
did they make native garments or did they copy patterns for shirts, jackets,
pants, etc., from white examples? Native garments are often depicted,
especially shirts, jackets or coats, as being "ill-fitting." Hanson &
Wilson's "The Mountain Man's Sketch Book" Vol. 1 says that: "Mountainmen
seldom wore Indian-style garments, which are poorly tailored...they wore...
"skin trousers copied from cloth pants...Replacement apparel was made by
friendly Indians copying white garments...."

As far as beadwork goes, be sure to check the time period of your persona and
then check the use of beadwork by the Crow for that time period. Maxmillian
considered the Crow to have the most elegant clothing and that Crow women
were most skilled at embroidered and ornamentation with porcupine quills.
This is 1832 and 1833 and there is no mention of beadwork. Neither Catlin nor
Bodmer mention or depict beadwork among the Crow in any of their works. Seed
beads have certainly been around for some time, but I think you'll find that
beadwork did not really become common or more prevalent until after the
traditional Mountain Man period of 1840. I have been wrong before, so you
might start your research with Allen Chronister's article on "Beadwork in the
American West before 1850" in the Book of Buckskinning VIII and in John C.
Ewers "Crow Indian Beadwork" (Eagle's View Publ. 1985).

Let us know what you find out.

YMOS
Ghosting Wolf

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:54:33 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane

In a message dated 4/4/01 5:10:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< > Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who would
be
 >  willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts?  No?  Yes?? how will you
 >  trade?
  >>
Our men's group at the church helps a quadraplegic man who has a "canebreak"
growing beside his home...has been there for a long whil and is encroaching
on his yard.
I am sure he could let go of a few green stalks.  How big? How long?  How
will you get them?  I will see him this Sat a.m. and will be glad to ask him
then.  If he says OK I will cut them as I leave.  Anyway, we call it cane and
that type is used to still make fish poles...looks like rivercane...could be
skinny bamboo.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:17:18 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane

I am in the process of making up two primitive style bamboo poles right now.
My wife decided that she wants to go fishing.  That's great I said, but I
sold all my poles.

She replied that Mr. Primitive should be able to make a few, so I am.

Hopefully I won't tangle with one of these 30 pound stripers that swim
around the lake.  Could be interesting.

Coyotebreath


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:54 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane


> In a message dated 4/4/01 5:10:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << > Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who
would
> be
>  >  willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts?  No?  Yes?? how will
you
>  >  trade?
>   >>
> Our men's group at the church helps a quadraplegic man who has a
"canebreak"
> growing beside his home...has been there for a long whil and is
encroaching
> on his yard.
> I am sure he could let go of a few green stalks.  How big? How long?  How
> will you get them?  I will see him this Sat a.m. and will be glad to ask
him
> then.  If he says OK I will cut them as I leave.  Anyway, we call it cane
and
> that type is used to still make fish poles...looks like rivercane...could
be
> skinny bamboo.
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:27:00 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

>     I don't believe that most of the trappers used regular Indian
leggings, but
> to
> say that none did in the west, is incorrect.
>                                                             mike.

Mike,

I think if you re-read my post you will not find me saying "that none did"
is not in there. I am aware that there were some notable exceptions to the
"rule"  you point out above that "most of the trappers" did not use regular
Indian leggings. (poetic license taken of course with the use of the word
"rule" as a "loose figure of speech") <G>

The question was asked with specific parameters provided by Trapper and a
"rhetorical" question by me was asked in turn. In general it is not
considered the norm for trappers to wear leggings and breech clout as the
plains Indians wore them so most "re-creators" shouldn't feel justified in
doing so. Does that stop us from doing it when it is hot out or we just feel
like doing it? Doesn't stop me. But normal wear by a trapper was quit
typically European probably to the point that one was looked at with raised
eyebrows by ones peers if anything else was worn.

Don't saddle me with making a rule that "trappers can't wear breech clout
and leggings". I just asked a question. <G>

Capt. Lahti'
who is not trying to pick a fight either. <G>


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:07:00 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane

In a message dated 4/4/1 06:55:24 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<How big? How long?  How
will you get them?  I will see him this Sat a.m. and will be glad to ask him
then.  If he says OK I will cut them as I leave.>>

How very nice of you to respond!
What I am looking for is to be made into atlatl darts.  If you know what that
is - we are half way there.  If not, let me introduce you to a whole new
world of fun!

Good darts are about 5 - 5 1/2 feet long and mebbyso 3/4" +/-  at the base.
In a bundle, they UPS fine.  Let me know what - in addition to postage - you
want for them.  We can do $s or something from the Rockies we may have that
you would like:  White sage, Quaker Cabin Broom, Chert, Obsidian, Shoshones .
. .. Let me know.

I belong to the World Atlatl Association, myself so I chuck darts for the fun
of it but also I help school archaeology groups, scouts, etc., build and
chuck the darts.  Trouble is we have only "sticks" and none of the cane we
envy others "chucking".

Thanks again
Most sincerely

Richard James
1576 East Canyon Drive,
South Weber, Utah  84405

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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:16:01 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane

In a message dated 4/4/1 07:16:03 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Mr. Primitive should be able to make a few, so I am.
My rendezvous side-kick is in to Colonial period fishing - has a pamphlet on
it.  I got him some white horse hair for leader and now he wants to forge
hooks.  Shouldn't be too hard, using needles.  The barb will be the
challenge.  The metal is cold by the time you get it into a vise so it has be
be annealed and then raise the barb with a very thin, sharp chisel.  Guess
I'll find out this summer.


Coyotebreath

>>
Hey - two new "handles":  Mr. Primitive and . . . Coyote breath??
(Used to have a coyote. That breath is is a class by itself.  Are you sure
this is appropos for you??  Spaghetti breath, or . . . garlic-for-breakfast
breath . . . . .but coyote??)

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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 03:30:06 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings

In a message dated 4/2/01 3:36:02 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< References are made to russia sheeting for
pants and I guess it was probably used as tarps etc.
What was the weight of it, and was it cotton, hemp, or
linen?  On those same lines is there any documentation
on the use of it for leggings?  >>

I don't see where anyone answered this so guess I will. As I understand it,
"Russian Sheeting" was made of hemp...a little lighter than our common
canvas. Blue Heron Mercantile sells it ,  12oz 100% Hemp Sailcloth at $20 <!>
a yard, (A.K.A. "Russian Sheeting") good for breeches, gaiters, frocks, etc...

Magpie

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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 07:42:53 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings

Magpie,
How about a phone number and address?
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings
>Date: Thu, Apr 5, 2001, 12:30 AM
>

>
>In a message dated 4/2/01 3:36:02 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><< References are made to russia sheeting for
>pants and I guess it was probably used as tarps etc.
>What was the weight of it, and was it cotton, hemp, or
>linen?  On those same lines is there any documentation
>on the use of it for leggings?  >>
>
>I don't see where anyone answered this so guess I will. As I understand it,
>"Russian Sheeting" was made of hemp...a little lighter than our common
>canvas. Blue Heron Mercantile sells it ,  12oz 100% Hemp Sailcloth at $20 <!>
>a yard, (A.K.A. "Russian Sheeting") good for breeches, gaiters, frocks, etc...
>
>Magpie
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:57:08 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane

> Hopefully I won't tangle with one of these 30 pound stripers that swim
>  around the lake.  Could be interesting.

My uncle used to fish for stripers in Ark. in the 50's or 60's.  They
specifically used long cane poles that were 10-14 feet long.  They called
them Calcutta rigs.

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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:05:38 -0400
From: Manbear <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings

Here is the link to their website.  Pretty interesting place.
Manbear

 http://www.blueheronmercantile.com/

"Ole B. Jensen" wrote:
Magpie,
How about a phone number and address?
YMOS
Ole # 718

> ----------
>  Blue Heron Mercantile sells it ,  12oz 100% Hemp Sailcloth at $20 <!>
> >a yard, (A.K.A. "Russian Sheeting") good for breeches, gaiters, frocks, etc...
> >Magpie


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:19:28 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane


>
> In a message dated 4/4/1 07:16:03 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Mr. Primitive should be able to make a few, so I am.
> My rendezvous side-kick is in to Colonial period fishing - has a pamphlet
on
> it.  I got him some white horse hair for leader and now he wants to forge
> hooks.  Shouldn't be too hard, using needles.  The barb will be the
> challenge.  The metal is cold by the time you get it into a vise so it has
be
> be annealed and then raise the barb with a very thin, sharp chisel.  Guess
> I'll find out this summer.
>
>
> Coyotebreath
>
> >>
> Hey - two new "handles":  Mr. Primitive and . . . Coyote breath??
> (Used to have a coyote. That breath is is a class by itself.  Are you sure
> this is appropos for you??  Spaghetti breath, or . . .
garlic-for-breakfast
> breath . . . . .but coyote??)
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 08:24:33 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Leather Breaches

Hello the camp!
This is a quote( The Connecticut 1st Co. Govenors Foot Guard, Breeches and
Leggins of Brown Leather)
Pennsylvania Infantry (Buckskin Overalls)
The Hardest fighting units of the Revolution wore Leather Hunting Shirts
with Leather Breaches and buckskin shoes (Mocasins).
The common color would seem to be Brown, there is also a mention of Buff
colored breaches and green dyed leather Breaches.
With the standard uniform of the Pennsylvania Infantry being brown leather
there would seem to be a small industry making such garments.
I also seem to remember from some writing years ago of leather pants being
made in St. Louis and shipped to the far west for trade along with shirts,
boots and shoes.
YMOS
Ole # 718

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:22:13 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)

Brad,
    Sounds like you've made up your mind to "go Indian".  Are you "mixed
blood" living with your mother's people?  If so, you're probably not a
trapper (or a "Mountain Man").  Indians seldom made a living trapping as
much as the fur companies wanted them to.  They had too much other stuff to
do.
    Beckworth was mentioned as a possible role model.  He did a lot of
stuff!  Made war on the Blackfoot and Lakota as a Crow and probably dressed
the part. He worked at trading post on the Platte and dressed European when
he did that work.  Jim spent some time at Bent's fort down south in Cheyenne
country, but you can bet he didn't dress as Crow then!  Later he built roads
and ran a trading post in California and helped found the town of Denver
looking for gold.  It's not enough to pick a personage but a time he worked
in.
    I figure I guy would do what works.  Livin' with Indians?  Indian wife,
relatives and responsibilities?  Then your not a Mountain Man.  Hell, you're
not much different then a settler.  A free trapper prided himself on being
his "own man".  They often started out (and finished up)working for a fur
company before they went "free lance".  Pick Joe Meek as an example.  He had
three Indian wives, his first being "Mountain Lamb", Milton Sublette's
former Crow wife.  He was fur trapper during the whole period and, although
there is a nice photo of him taken when he traveled East all dressed up in
semi-Indian garb, he could afford to dress himself and his women "American".
An aside, packin' women along is a lot of trouble.  Meek's first wife was
filled in a Blackfoot raid, his second wife kicked him out of her lodge for
drinking and his kids were killed in the Modoc raid on the Whitman mission.
His last Indian wife and kids lasted him the rest of his life  but that was
after he retired to Oregon as a peace officer and settler.
    Chances are your "workin' clothes" are American and your party clothes
have Crow quillwork and such.  If you show up at a rendezvous with that
persona, be sure your Crow wife sets up your tipi and has the food hot
whenever you come back from drinking and shooting with your buddies!  Damn
few of us have that setup.  (Well, maybe Crazy Cyote does, but he don't
dress Injun either.  We're happy when he dresses human.)  Like the good
Cap'n, I don breechcloth and leggin's when the weather turns hot.
Otherwise, I wear my wealth: linen, cotton and wool.
    Just musin'.
    Larry Huber
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Everett" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)


> So, if I have lived with the Crows for a long period of time, would I be
> correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings
> and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns?
> Trapper,
>  Trek'n through time, backwards!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:58 AM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim)
>
>
> RMFT . Now if your replacing worn out
> > clothing in the Mt.s it is quite reasonable to assume that it would be
> with
> > "Indian dressed" leather.
> > Capt. Lahti'
>
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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