>> I see it in my four year olds play already, some teasing is meant to
>> distance and hurt but most of it is intended to breakdown barriers not
>> build them. But it might be hard to tell the difference if you are on the
>> receiving end ..
>
>Yes. Impossible, even.
>
>"ALAN AVERY" <aavery@telus.net> wote:
> >> Ya got to have a sense of humour right? ...I know a gal who once
>dropped a toasted marshmellow down her cleavage, and has been known ever
>since as Sticky Tits!<<
>
>If she's still in the hobby, she must have one heckuva sense of humor, and
>I salute her.
>
>But I wasn't talking about newbies, or hazing; I'm talking about things
>like C. T. Oakes' problem.
>
>C. T. wrote that he made a pair of brown denim pants, for which he had good
>documentation. His "friends", who surely knew about his documentation, took
>to calling him "Carhartts" because they thought it was funny. Finally, he
>gave up and left the pants at home; the teasing had taken all the fun out
>of wearing them.
>
>For my husband and I, the teasing started after we'd been in this hobby for
>a couple of years. We pitch a wedge tent to use in the daytime, but we
>don't sleep in it; we use our RV instead. So, at every event, our
>buckskinning "friends" would make pointed remarks about our sleeping
>arrangements. We politely explained why we weren't using the
>tent--repeatedly--but every day, at every event, the same people would
>bring this up. This went on for *two years*. After these folks found a
>couple of other things to harp on, we finally had enough. It just wasn't
>fun anymore, and we stopped going to events.
>
>We were told that several other folks were also teased to the point where
>they, too, quit this group.
>
>Your very humble & most obedient servant,
>Angela Gottfred
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:06:25 -0400
From: hikingonthru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings - and how to preserve outfit
Ho Camp,
I know that some of you out there use canvas for leggings. I made some with some canvas duck that was given to me recently. I put a fringe on them and becasue they were so stiff ran them through the washer to loosen them up. WHOA!!! Pretty big mass of strings had unraveled when I took them out this a.m. to check them (Breechcloth was same way but that fuzzy edge will feel right nice!) I can tell that several washings will take quite a bit of length off due to unraveling and my finge will be nothing but hanging threads! Stitching slows it down but it will go eventually!. Ithought maybe some of you who make of repair period clothing there any way to treat the material to minimize or prevent this? Checked a lot of websites and the local library and the sources there mainly have info on patterns and styles...not so much on preservation. Thanks in advance.
- -C.Kent
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:52:57 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings - and how to preserve outfit
I made some with some canvas duck that was given to me recently. I put a
fringe on them and becasue they were so stiff ran them through the washer to
loosen them up. WHOA!!!
C.Kent,
WHOA Indead! Might I suggest that you approached this project backwards? You
probably figured that out by now. <G> The first step would have been to wash
the material first to make it soft. The second step would have been to not
put fringe on canvas/linen/cloth leggings. In my opinion, it is not the
right material for such a decorative treatment. They might better have been
decorated with some kind of yarn tassle or small yarn ball but I think you
would find any thing like fringe or tassles to be a headache in the brush.
Best leave everything off.
And as an asside, pull on wool leggings (in the style of a plains Indian
pull on leather legging (without fringe) would be appropriate for an over
the pants/britches leg covering in winter or alone if your tought, but
canvas/linen leggings should be button up with a retaining strap under the
arch of the foot and go just up over the knees. They should probaly be stiff
enough (even to being painted with an appropriate paint and color) to stand
on their own with just a knee strap on the outside, under the knee and
around the leg.
It appears that what you might have been trying to do was duplicate the
appearance of "leather leggings" in canvas. I don't see how that can be
carried off without them looking "kinda funny". If all you have is the
canvas then my suggestion is to use it as it was used. Button up, painted or
plain with strap under foot and a gusset in the front of the foot so they
fit the leg snuggly all the way down. They should be lined with a lighter
canvas or even light weigh wool.
An additional thougth since it appears you will wear leggings with a breech
clout, make them of canvas, pull on coming up to mid thigh only, cut
straight across at the top, suspended with a thin thong to the belt on each
side and decorative leg ties of leather or quilled or embroideried, and
paint the leggings in the style of eastern Indian leggings, ie. a solid
color with very little other color trim except what you can do tastefully in
colored ribbon. No fringe uless it is an added element of "dangles", "cone
tassles" etc.
Leave the self fringe off.
Capt. Lahti'
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Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 15:05:54 -0400
From: hikingonthru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona?
> It appears that what you might have been trying to do was duplicate the
> appearance of "leather leggings" in canvas. I don't see how that can be
> carried off without them looking "kinda funny".
Capt. Lahti is right - I did what research I could with the limited resources I could (our local library has a complete set of the encylopedia of Native Americans, but that gives only a gloss over of clothing styles!) I did the web search of sutlers and noticed several showed pictures of northern plains style leggings with fringe "available in leather, canvas or linen". I jumped when I should have stayed and looked for a while!!! I am trying to pertray a RMFT persona who is back east for an extended visit before returning to the Rocky Mtn.s. I hate to just ask...I have rather come to enjoy the research. But, Capt., in your opinion, would the estern woodlands style leggings go over for that persona?. I could very easily cut off the fringe and paint them. They are currently straight cut at a few inches above mid-thigh. I like the extra canvas (lotsa briar patches to meander into while doing night tacticals around our neck of the woods! <BG>) I have noticed mid-calf breech!
cloths in many era paintings and a few written articles so I made it that way.
>
> An additional thougth since it appears you will wear leggings with a breech
> clout, make them of canvas, pull on coming up to mid thigh only, cut
> straight across at the top, suspended with a thin thong to the belt on each
> side and decorative leg ties of leather or quilled or embroideried, and
> paint the leggings in the style of eastern Indian leggings, ie. a solid
> color with very little other color trim except what you can do tastefully in
> colored ribbon. No fringe uless it is an added element of "dangles", "cone
> tassles" etc.
Also, if the good Capt. or anyone else could point me to any known resources for pc colors and coloring materials for the cloth (currently VERY khaki till I find some RIT dye remover) I would love to get a jump on painting them and the breechcloth!!! Rest assured, I will be doing my web research in the meantime as well!!!
By the way, I did make modest three shooting bags and a ball pouch with the scraps and these came out very nicely with a neat fray after the wash!!!!
Thanks for all!
- -C.Kent
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:25:13 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona?
C. Kent wrote:
I have noticed mid-calf breech!
cloths in many era paintings and a few written articles so I made it that
way.
>>Don't go there either. Those long Breech Clouts were worn by Plains
Indians where there wasn't a bush within miles. Either that or they were
worn as ceremonial dress, Sunday-Go-To Meetin. A clout longer than
mid-thigh is a absolute curse in the woods. Ever tried crossing a barbwire
fence while wearing a clout ? It's an adventure.
Pendleton
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:54:52 EDT
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona?
In a message dated 4/3/01 4:35:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, yrrw@airmail.net
writes:
<< Ever tried crossing a barbwire
fence while wearing a clout ? It's an adventure. >>
Appreciate the info and input. I have never tried crossing a barbwire fence
in a breech anything~ <VBG> I have noticed that when I a crossing through a
barbed wire fence that a hunting partner is holding for me, a mosquito
chooses that exact moment to zip into the said partners ear!!! You can
predict the results!!!
I re-submit my question. Would a mid-thigh legging be OK for a persona of a
RMFT trapper come back east for an extended visit before returning to the
Rocky Mtns.?
Appreciate the feedback!!!
- -C.Kent
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:23:42 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona?
I am trying to portray a RMFT persona who is back east for an extended visit
before returning to the Rocky Mt..s.
C. Kent,
The bottom line?! A RMFT back east for an extended visit? Forget everything
I suggested. <G> If you did have the same cloths on that you wore out west,
your pants or knee britches would probably be of brain tan as would your
coat. Since you do not have any, don't try to fake it. Go with cloth and use
it properly so as not to make a serious fashion mistake.
You would be dressed in drop front pantaloons (with cross strap under the
foot) leather shoes or boots ankle high. You would have a white shirt with
neck tie in the form of a black silk scarf or etc., a short waisted
vest/weskit, a well fitted frock coat of worsted, probably wool and probably
dark color, Blue, Navy, Black. A felt hat of modest brim or a top hat of
beaver fur felt. you would likely have no use for leggings unless it were
winter and then you would probably be wearing wool trousers/pantaloons or
knee Britches with those canvas leggings I mentioned or perhaps button up
wool leggings.
> I hate to just ask...I have rather come to enjoy the research. But, Capt.,
in your opinion, would the eastern woodlands style leggings go over for that
persona?.
To your question above, I would say no. They would not be appropriate. But
neither would the breech clout. It is generally believed that very few RMFT
wore breech clout and leggings if any did. The wearing of eastern Indian
clothing by Europeans was more common at the very edge of civilization by
very earthy woodsmen way back in the mid 18th century. But a RMFT back in
civilization would not wear such.
> I could very easily cut off the fringe and paint them. They are currently
straight cut at a few inches above mid-thigh.
Yes you could make them into shorter leggings to wear over britches or
pantaloons but not with a breech clout.
> I like the extra canvas (lotsa briar patches to meander into while doing
night tacticals around our neck of the woods! <BG>) I have noticed mid-calf
breech
cloths in many era paintings and a few written articles so I made it that
way.
I suspect what your seeing are paintings of frontier characters of the 18th
century not the 19th Century (which is the era of the RMFT). But night
tacticals? Why would a RMFT back east for a visit be running around in the
woods at night practicing chasing hostiles? That's from the previous Century
during the various wars between the European powers, the Colonials and the
various (still powerful) Eastern Tribes.
> Also, if the good Capt. or anyone else could point me to any known
resources for pc colors and coloring materials for the cloth (currently VERY
khaki till I find some RIT dye remover)
If you have plenty of this material, I would make it into britches or
pantaloons via the many patterns that are available and leave the color
alone, letting them age with camp chores. Forget the paint.
Capt. Lahti'
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:21:09 -0700
From: "ALAN AVERY" <aavery@telus.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona?
... not to mention accidently standing on the back flap when getting up!
Yowch!!! (you probably thought there was no such thing as a self-wedgie!) In
my parts we reckon that someone who shows up with a long clout to be someone
who hasn't worn one for very long. (and we all watch 'em when they get up!)
- -----Original Message-----
From: larry pendleton <yrrw@airmail.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: April 3, 2001 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT
persona?
>C. Kent wrote:
>I have noticed mid-calf breech!
>cloths in many era paintings and a few written articles so I made it that
>way.
>
>>>Don't go there either. Those long Breech Clouts were worn by Plains
>Indians where there wasn't a bush within miles. Either that or they were
>worn as ceremonial dress, Sunday-Go-To Meetin. A clout longer than
>mid-thigh is a absolute curse in the woods. Ever tried crossing a barbwire
>fence while wearing a clout ? It's an adventure.
>
>Pendleton
>
>
>
>----------------------
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