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2001-02-22
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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #755
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Friday, February 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 755
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's charger
-áááááá MtMan-List: trade beads
-áááááá MtMan-List: [Fwd: cannon shoot]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trade beads
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Interesting!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: [Fwd: cannon shoot]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
-áááááá MtMan-List: now Grizz load
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trade beads
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: [Fwd: cannon shoot]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:45:39 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rifle and revolver caliber Jim Bridger's charger
In a message dated 2/22/1 02:42:12 PM, palmer@netdor.com writes:
<<I had a friend who spent time in Alaska hunting Kodiak bears with a .58
rifled musket. He swears he used two (2) Minnie balls nose to nose in front
of 100 grains of ffg. He also allowed this load killed from one end and
crippled from the other.>>
Yankee inventivness and ingenuity . . . .Sound like the guy who discovered
electricity but was killed by the charge. Can't remember his name.
RJames
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:43:22 EST
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: trade beads
Can anyone recommend some good trade bead books that would cover what was
available during the RMFT and earlier?
Ymos,
Magpie
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:48:53 -0800
From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: [Fwd: cannon shoot]
Now here's an interesting thing to do if'n you're around Colorado in
July......
********************************Dear Fellow Shooters,The WHAC Shooting
Club will be holding the first annual Black Powder Cannon and Rifle
Shoot July 21, 2001 at our 100 acre range near Denver Intl' Airport.
Targets for cannon will be cars and other fun stuff at up to 1500 yards.
The rifle range will have targets up to 300 yards. Shooters are welcome
to stay overnight and shoot July 22 also at no additional charge.
This is a FUN SHOOT with friendly $5 shoots/winner take all competitions
thru-out the day. Camping is available but with no services. Porta cans
will be on site. Spectators are welcome at $10 carload. We will
feature our "Mad Scientist" firing theri pumpkin gun, a air cannon with
a 40 FT barrel which has fired an intact pumpkin 1000
yards. Entries will be acepted by phone.WHAC members
entry $15 (no other discounts), Non-memebrs entry $35 with $10 discount
for NRA and CSSA members.Contact Mark Mason 303-377-0034 or
whacemason@usa.net
********************************
Regards from Idaho
Lee Newbill
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:10:10 -0700
From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <tphsb@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
I heard the same thing. I also heard that Navajo medicine men practicing
black magic are referred to as coyote men
anyway just some thoughts; tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <SWzypher@aol.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 1:31 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver
Trapping
>
> In a message dated 2/20/1 11:09:08 PM, JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net writes:
>
> <<"The Coyote, Super Survivor - Anglo explorers first called him the
> "prairie wolf", the one who watched over the Great Plains. The Navajos
> referred to him as "God's dog". >>
>
> Don't know where the author got his stuff but Navajos call them "skin
> walkers". They can be evil or mischevious humans transformed into animals
to
> further their own cause and Navajos won't have anything to do with them
> including touching their hides or any other part. As for me, I had one
for a
> pet and my feeling is you couldn't ask for a more lovable little friend
than
> a coyote or a wolf (had a total of 42 of them).
> RJames
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:17:44 EST
From: TrapRJoe@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
- --part1_3d.7d34e1f.27c73e68_boundary
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Spent time on the Navajo. It a wolf that they become and the coyote is the
devil
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Spent time on the Navajo. It a wolf that they become and the coyote is the
<BR>devil</FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:35:09 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads
> Can anyone recommend some good trade bead books that would cover what was
> available during the RMFT and earlier?
>
> Ymos,
> Magpie
You might make a visit to Fort Union Trading Post or stop by the museum at
the airport in Billings to see some of the beads present on the upper
Missouri after Ft. Unions development in 1827-1828. The beads that I showed
you were from that period of the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade.
Walt
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:00:41 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Interesting!
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Re: MtMan-List: Interesting!Ole,
I got the book French Fur Traders & Voyageurs in the American West by =
LeRoy R. Hafen based upon ideas being exchanged on this list and the =
requests for specifics regarding documentation. =20
There are several references to Stewart and the very trip you are =
talking about is included in this book. =20
On page 10. "The father of Baptiste Charbonneau was Metis and his =
mother, the famous Sacajawea, was a Shoshone Indian. This is an =
excellent reference to the Metis being actively involved in the Rocky =
Mountain Fur Trade. From the very beginning of the Americans in the =
Rockies. And does challenge Allen's theory....that the Metis did not =
make a significent impact on the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade. As posted =
earlier on this history list.
In the book it mentions that Stewart was along on 5 of the 15 =
rendezvous. The one where he took Miller is the one you are talking =
about having an interest in this time.
Walt
Park City, MT=20
Stewart was a guest and tagged along with the caravan which was =
taking trade goods to the 1837 Rendezvous. The wagons,carts and pack =
annimals were not all for his supplies. I think that most were for =
Alcohol,Gun powder and goodies to trade for furs.
The Fur Co. had high hopes of filling those wagons and carts for the =
trip back to St.Louis. Now then add the Hudson Bay Co. and the supplies =
they braught to the area and the competition for the available furs and =
you have a lot of trade items available.
Now the comment about having a persona are right on target, but I got =
what I wanted from this thread which was to get back to a more =
meaningful discussion concerning the Fur Trade!.
YMOS
Ole # 718
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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Interesting!</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ole,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I got the book French Fur Traders & =
Voyageurs=20
in the American West by LeRoy R. Hafen based upon ideas being exchanged =
on this=20
list and the requests for specifics regarding documentation. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There are several references to Stewart =
and the=20
very trip you are talking about is included in this book. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On page 10. "The father of =
Baptiste=20
Charbonneau was Metis and his mother, the famous Sacajawea, was a =
Shoshone=20
Indian. This is an excellent reference to the Metis being actively =
involved in the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade. From the very beginning =
of the=20
Americans in the Rockies. And does challenge Allen's =
theory....that the=20
Metis did not make a significent impact on the Rocky Mountain Fur =
Trade. As=20
posted earlier on this history list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the book it mentions that Stewart =
was along on 5=20
of the 15 rendezvous. The one where he took Miller is the one you =
are=20
talking about having an interest in this time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Walt</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Park City, MT</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV>Stewart was a guest and tagged along with the caravan which =
was=20
taking trade goods to the 1837 Rendezvous. The wagons,carts and pack =
annimals=20
were not all for his supplies. I think that most were for Alcohol,Gun =
powder=20
and goodies to trade for furs.<BR>The Fur Co. had high hopes of =
filling those=20
wagons and carts for the trip back to St.Louis. Now then add the =
Hudson Bay=20
Co. and the supplies they braught to the area and the competition for =
the=20
available furs and you have a lot of trade items available.<BR>Now the =
comment=20
about having a persona are right on target, but I got what I wanted =
from this=20
thread which was to get back to a more meaningful discussion =
concerning the=20
Fur Trade!.<BR>YMOS<BR>Ole # 718</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR>----------<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 01:32:42 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: [Fwd: cannon shoot]
In a message dated 2/22/1 08:49:38 PM, bluethistle@potlatch.com writes:
<<Dear Fellow Shooters,The WHAC Shooting
Club will be holding the first annual Black Powder Cannon and Rifle
Shoot July 21, 2001 at our 100 acre range near Denver Intl' Airport.
Targets for cannon will be cars and other fun stuff at up to 1500 yards.>>
I f you get excited about this sort of thing in Cololrado in July, come over
to the Fort Bridger Rendezvous on Labor Day weekend. They use the old Fort
artillery range. They are shooting at targets 1400 yards away but some of
those misses go way over a mile - especially an overshot by the billiard ball
mortars.
RJames
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 01:37:37 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
In a message dated 2/22/1 09:18:44 PM, TrapRJoe@aol.com writes:
<<Spent time on the Navajo. It a wolf that they become and the coyote is the
devil>>
I didn't spend any time ON any Navajos, but they called it the way I told it
- - - - "skin walkers" can transform into coyotes for either mischief or evil.
'yotees are also called "tricksters" - not in a joking way, but when
inhabited by a spirit they are not to be trusted.
RJames
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 02:11:02 EST
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
In a message dated 2/23/01 6:38:26 AM !First Boot!!!, SWzypher@aol.com writes:
> didn't spend any time ON any Navajos, but they called it the way I told it
> - - - "skin walkers" can transform into coyotes for either mischief or
evil.
>
> 'yotees are also called "tricksters" - not in a joking way, but when
> inhabited by a spirit they are not to be trusted.
>
> RJames
Richard your starting to hurt my feelins! (G)
Granted I've pulled a few "tricks" in my time.
But I ain't all that bad, just ask Jill on a good day.
On second thought?----- maybe you had better ask someone else?
Crazy Cyot
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 04:53:52 -0800
From: "Kayla M. Michael" <kaylam@onewest.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hello All, I am a new member to this email chat room but I have been =
lurking here and reading
the archieves for years. Greetings All. I live here in NW Wyoming and =
love the wilds and the
old ways. I have some questions ...
I have been very interested and am studing the Sheepeater Indians that =
used to live in this
NW Wyoming area and also in the high mountains of central Idaho. They =
were the only
indians to live year round in the Yellowstone Park region. Osbourne =
Russell in his book
has a description of them when he went thru the Lamar Valley (The =
Secluded Valley).
I am interested in any information that you could send me on them. I do =
know that they
were a subgroup of the Shoshone-Bannock, never acquired the horse, and =
in the 1870's=20
were forced onto the reservations with the Shoshone-Bannocks in Wyoming =
and Idaho.
Does anyone know where I might find in depth information on them and =
their ways, beliefs,
and living habits?
Also I understand that they made excellent bows out of the horns of the =
Bighorn Sheep.
I understand that these were highly prized artifacts and of excellent =
quality. The Sheepeater
diet consisted of much meat from the Bighorn Sheep hence the name =
Sheepeaters.=20
These horns were soften by heat and also sometimes from the geysers and =
hot springs in
Yellowstone Park and molded into shape. I am considering in trying to =
make a bow like
they used to make. Does anyone have information on this, on their old =
bows, and their
bow making techniques? Again, I understand that these bows were highly =
prized artifacts.
Thankyou so very much. Love this discussion Chat Email Service.=20
May The Creator Bless!
Lone =
Eagle Woman
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello All, I am a new member to this =
email chat=20
room but I have been lurking here and reading</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the archieves for years. Greetings All. =
I live here=20
in NW Wyoming and love the wilds and the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>old ways. I have some questions =
...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been very interested and am =
studing the=20
Sheepeater Indians that used to live in this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NW Wyoming area and also in the high =
mountains of=20
central Idaho. They were the only</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>indians to live year round in the =
Yellowstone Park=20
region. Osbourne Russell in his book</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>has a description of them when he went =
thru the=20
Lamar Valley (The Secluded Valley).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am interested in any information that =
you could=20
send me on them. I do know that they</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>were a subgroup of the =
Shoshone-Bannock, never=20
acquired the horse, and in the 1870's </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>were forced onto the reservations with =
the=20
Shoshone-Bannocks in Wyoming and Idaho.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone know where I might find in =
depth=20
information on them and their ways, beliefs,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and living habits?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also I understand that they made =
excellent bows out=20
of the horns of the Bighorn Sheep.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I understand that these were highly =
prized=20
artifacts and of excellent quality. The Sheepeater</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>diet consisted of much meat from the =
Bighorn Sheep=20
hence the name Sheepeaters. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>These horns were soften by heat and=20
also sometimes from the geysers and hot springs in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yellowstone Park and molded =
into shape.=20
I am considering in trying to make a bow like</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>they used to make. Does anyone have =
information on=20
this, on their old bows, and their</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>bow making techniques? Again, I =
understand that=20
these bows were highly prized artifacts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thankyou so very much. Love this =
discussion Chat=20
Email Service. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May The Creator Bless!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; =20
Lone Eagle Woman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:45:12 -0600
From: "Best, Dianne" <dbest@hydro.mb.ca>
Subject: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
Magpie wrote about the damage done to the quarry by the shot and the effect
of stress on the animals reaction to being shot.
As I mentioned earlier, I hunt white-tail deer with a calibre most people
would consider far inadequate. I usually shoot from cover a fair distance
away from the animal and place the shot where I would want to hit with an
arrow. Often, the target animal hardly reacts and the other deer around him
just kind of look around to try to see where the "pop" came from. I sit
tight, stay under cover, watch my deer, and have a smoke. In a couple of
minutes, he will wander a short distance from the rest and lay down in the
grass, and expire. The longest I have ever had to trail a deer is about 500
feet and it is usually "one deer tag, one deer, one bullet" and the worst
damage I've had to the meat was a few bone fragments when my .222 hit a rib.
Now, in all fairness, there is an issue of "stopping power" if the target is
dangerous. If it is a mountain lion in the back yard (and there are some in
my area), it wont be the .222 I step out with; it will be the 45-70 with
"bear loads" cause the 45-70 would stop a Mack truck with one shot!
I believe in using only enough (of anything) to get the job done. The
quieter and the less to-do, the better. (Must be the Indian background?) A
big cloud of smoke, a tremendous "kaboom", and a gun that kicks the shooter
almost off his feet might look impressive but if hunting is your "bread and
butter", the big show doesn't accomplish anything.
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:56:30 EST
From: BrayHaven@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
In a message dated 2/23/2001 8:47:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes:
<< I usually shoot from cover a fair distance
away from the animal and place the shot where I would want to hit with an
arrow. >>
As you say, Placement is far more important than caliber. There are numerous
accounts of neophytes in the mtns trying to kill buffalo and shooting them
far too high in the rib cage for the heart & lungs. WDM (Karamojo) Bell
killed around a thousand elephants with a 7X57 mauser by knowing their
anatomy & carefully placing his shots.
Greg Sefton
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:21:33 EST
From: TrapRJoe@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
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Was told the coyote is thief. You will be walking and he will steal your
clothes. I was told he could disappear. In the beginning all the stars were
on a blanket and the animals were each placing their star in the heavens and
the coyote came along and flipped the blanket. In the beginning he had
beautiful fur, but gambled it away to the beaver, beautiful eyes and gambled
it away to the bird. The coyote bring the rain (No coyote, no rain). Upon
hearing this I said then he is a God, and was told, no he is the devil. If a
coyote crosses the road in front of you and he is going east, you will have
good luck; but if he is going north, get off the road so no one else will be
hurt.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Was told the coyote is thief. You will be walking and he will steal your
<BR>clothes. I was told he could disappear. In the beginning all the stars were
<BR>on a blanket and the animals were each placing their star in the heavens and
<BR>the coyote came along and flipped the blanket. In the beginning he had
<BR>beautiful fur, but gambled it away to the beaver, beautiful eyes and gambled
<BR>it away to the bird. The coyote bring the rain (No coyote, no rain). Upon
<BR>hearing this I said then he is a God, and was told, no he is the devil. If a
<BR>coyote crosses the road in front of you and he is going east, you will have
<BR>good luck; but if he is going north, get off the road so no one else will be
<BR>hurt.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:23:03 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads
The History Of Beads by Lois Sherr Dubin. Abradale Press, New York.
(www.abramsbooks.com) Covers beads from 30,000BC to the present. Heavily
illustrated with a very useful pictorial 'time-line' of beads. If you have
the bucks, get the full book, not the concise edition. Both are available at
Amazon, Bibliofind, Abramsbooks, etc. Barney
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:32:20 EST
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
Dianne
we're talking apple and oranges here. A .222 is a hi power smokeless powder
gun that is moving so fast that the built explodes on contact. Probably with
a scope on it too for better placement of your shot. By law the smallest
caliber that can be used to hunt deer here in Idaho with Black Powder is .45
caliber. Elk is a .50 cal. Actually a mountain Lion does not take much to
stop. It is the only big game animal in the state that can be legally hunted
with a rim fire gun. (.22 cal.) Without the big cloud of smoke, a tremendous
"kaboom", You ain't hunt with Black Powder and If ya ain't hunting with
Black Powder ya ain't showin me nothin. For that takes a might more skill
then huntin with a Hi power suppository rifle with a scope on it.
Just one Black Powder hunter's
opinion
Crazy Cyot
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:33:25 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
In a message dated 2/23/1 12:11:38 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com writes:
<<Granted I've pulled a few "tricks" in my time.
But I ain't all that bad, just ask Jill on a good day.
On second thought?----- maybe you had better ask someone else?
>>
What can I say?? Navajos had their own feelings about 'yotees before "us
guys" ever got here, and --
I don't know who hung the handle on you but everyone knows(in the eyes of
Indians) that one we would call "crazy" is touched by the great spirit and
carries BIG medicine. I know one Indian from up your way - you probably know
Clyde Hall - for whom the Owl is big medicine and his totem. His friend,
Lane Tom, shys away from owl like they had the plague (like Navajos &
coyotes). Nice thing is we can observe but have no obligation to try and
figure it out.
We're getting snow here big time. Are you going to the Pocatello gun show?
I want to run up saturday morning if Malad Pass will allow such things.
Mebbee so see you there??
Dick James
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:47:08 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
In a message dated 2/23/1 04:46:47 AM, kaylam@onewest.net writes:
<<I live here in NW Wyoming and love the wilds and the
old ways. I have some questions ...
I have been very interested and am studing the Sheepeater Indians that used
to live in this
NW Wyoming area and also in the high mountains of central Idaho. >>
Try The Limhi: Sacajawea's People by Brigham D Madsen, The CAXTON PRINTERS,
Ltd., Caldwell, Idaho 83605 ISBN 0-87004-267-X. Brig is getting pretty
infirm but has written eight books all related to Shoshone people, is
professor emeritus for three different universities where he taught in and
directed their history departments. I talked with him in his home 30 miles
from here but I bought my copy of this particular book from the Museum in
Boise Idaho.
You live where in Wyoming?? Anywhere around Cody?
Richard James
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:49:44 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
In a message dated 2/23/1 06:47:15 AM, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes:
<< 45-70 with
"bear loads" cause the 45-70 would stop a Mack truck with one shot!>>
Just got one of those and havn't yet tried it. What have you hit with one
and what damage did it do?
RJames
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:00:01 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
In a message dated 2/23/1 07:23:17 AM, TrapRJoe@aol.com writes:
<<Was told the coyote is thief. You will be walking and he will steal your
clothes. I was told he could disappear>>
Now we are talking Lakota, not Navajo, but Chief (Edgar) Red Cloud - when he
was alive over 30 years ago - told me a Lakota tale about a coyote. Back
when coyotes were entrusted with a sacred bundle - the were required to pass
it around from pack to pack to share responsibility of it care. A young,
most mischievious of the bunch, was chosesn to carry the bundle from his pack
to the next and despite instructions contrary he couldn't pass up the
opportunity to "sneak a peek". Well the contents was mica and as he opened
the bundle, a gust came up and sucked all the contents from the bag and
scattered it. This is why today you will find mica all over the Black Hills
(this is true !) and why all coyotes howl at the moon as an expression of
their remorse and embarassment caused them by their relative.
RJames
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:03:15 -0700
From: Charlie Webb <cwebbbpdr@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: [Fwd: cannon shoot]
>
> <<Dear Fellow Shooters,The WHAC Shooting
> Club will be holding the first annual Black Powder Cannon and Rifle
> Shoot July 21, 2001 at our 100 acre range near Denver Intl'
>
> I f you get excited about this sort of thing in Cololrado in July,
I might add that the largest muzzle loading shoot in Colorado is the
Colorado Springs Muzzle Loaders Annual Black Powder Shoot
and Rendezvous held over Memorial Day at Florence Mountain
Park. This will be the 27th year we have put on this event. We
do a cannon matches, smooth and rifled bores, as well as paper
and primitive ranges. Mountain Man and Mountain Mama runs
and many kids events. For real hivernants we have a Super Senior
Class for shooters who have celebrated their 70th birthday. Hawk
and Knife, Hunters Walk, Shotgun Matches along with a screened
Traders Row. Men and Ladies flint and percussion, pistol, and
revolver matches. Team events for clubs and couples plus Old
Timers matches. Our Memorial Day Shoot averages 350 plus
registered Junior Men and Women shooters. We have a primitive
camping area as well as a Tin Tipi camp. (no hook ups) This is
not an event for totally primitive mind sets, we welcome everyone,
in buckskins or tee shirts especially the kids, they are the future
of muzzle loading. For three days of great shooting and fun, come
play with us!
Respectfully
Old Coyote ( apparently unloved by the Navajo)
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:38:12 -0500
From: Ikon@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09DC7.C6EF5400
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lone Eagle Woman,
There was an excellant article in one of the Wild West mags about 6 =
years ago on the Sheepeater Indians. I have since given that issue to a =
gent who goes by Sheepeater.
I will post on the board and If I can contact him, put you in touch with =
him. He just happens to be a descendant from the Sheepeater Indians.
From what I remember, the tribe was made up of indians from various =
tribes. There bows were of sheep horn. A good book for this bow is =
Reginald Laubin's Indian Archery. A must for any bowyer.
Talk to you soon,
Frank V. Rago
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Kayla M. Michael=20
To: hist_text@xmission.com=20
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:53 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
Hello All, I am a new member to this email chat room but I have been =
lurking here and reading
the archieves for years. Greetings All. I live here in NW Wyoming and =
love the wilds and the
old ways. I have some questions ...
I have been very interested and am studing the Sheepeater Indians that =
used to live in this
NW Wyoming area and also in the high mountains of central Idaho. They =
were the only
indians to live year round in the Yellowstone Park region. Osbourne =
Russell in his book
has a description of them when he went thru the Lamar Valley (The =
Secluded Valley).
I am interested in any information that you could send me on them. I =
do know that they
were a subgroup of the Shoshone-Bannock, never acquired the horse, and =
in the 1870's=20
were forced onto the reservations with the Shoshone-Bannocks in =
Wyoming and Idaho.
Does anyone know where I might find in depth information on them and =
their ways, beliefs,
and living habits?
Also I understand that they made excellent bows out of the horns of =
the Bighorn Sheep.
I understand that these were highly prized artifacts and of excellent =
quality. The Sheepeater
diet consisted of much meat from the Bighorn Sheep hence the name =
Sheepeaters.=20
These horns were soften by heat and also sometimes from the geysers =
and hot springs in
Yellowstone Park and molded into shape. I am considering in trying to =
make a bow like
they used to make. Does anyone have information on this, on their old =
bows, and their
bow making techniques? Again, I understand that these bows were highly =
prized artifacts.
Thankyou so very much. Love this discussion Chat Email Service.=20
May The Creator Bless!
Lone =
Eagle Woman
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lone Eagle Woman,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There was an excellant article in one =
of the Wild=20
West mags about 6 years ago on the Sheepeater Indians. I have =
since given=20
that issue to a gent who goes by Sheepeater.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will post on the board and If I can =
contact him,=20
put you in touch with him. He just happens to be a descendant =
from the Sheepeater Indians.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From what I remember, the tribe was =
made up=20
of indians from various tribes. There bows were of sheep =
horn. =20
A good book for this bow is Reginald Laubin's Indian Archery. A =
must for=20
any bowyer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Talk to you soon,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Frank V. Rago</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:kaylam@onewest.net" title=3Dkaylam@onewest.net>Kayla =
M.=20
Michael</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com"=20
title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com>hist_text@xmission.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 23, 2001 =
7:53=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: The =
Sheepeater=20
Indians</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello All, I am a new member to this =
email chat=20
room but I have been lurking here and reading</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the archieves for years. Greetings =
All. I live=20
here in NW Wyoming and love the wilds and the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>old ways. I have some questions =
...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been very interested and am =
studing the=20
Sheepeater Indians that used to live in this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NW Wyoming area and also in the high =
mountains of=20
central Idaho. They were the only</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>indians to live year round in the =
Yellowstone=20
Park region. Osbourne Russell in his book</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>has a description of them when he =
went thru the=20
Lamar Valley (The Secluded Valley).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am interested in any information =
that you could=20
send me on them. I do know that they</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>were a subgroup of the =
Shoshone-Bannock,=20
never acquired the horse, and in the 1870's </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>were forced onto the reservations =
with the=20
Shoshone-Bannocks in Wyoming and Idaho.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone know where I might find =
in depth=20
information on them and their ways, beliefs,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and living habits?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also I understand that they made =
excellent bows=20
out of the horns of the Bighorn Sheep.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I understand that these were highly =
prized=20
artifacts and of excellent quality. The Sheepeater</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>diet consisted of much meat from the =
Bighorn=20
Sheep hence the name Sheepeaters. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>These horns were soften by heat and=20
also sometimes from the geysers and hot springs in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yellowstone Park and =
molded into=20
shape. I am considering in trying to make a bow like</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>they used to make. Does anyone have =
information=20
on this, on their old bows, and their</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>bow making techniques? Again, I =
understand that=20
these bows were highly prized artifacts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thankyou so very much. Love this =
discussion Chat=20
Email Service. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May The Creator Bless!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; =20
Lone Eagle Woman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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