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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #756
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Saturday, February 24 2001 Volume 01 : Number 756
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trade beads
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
-áááááá MtMan-List: Colt's revolving shotguns(rifles)
-áááááá MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
-áááááá MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
-áááááá MtMan-List: trade beads
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
-áááááá MtMan-List: Grizz load
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:11:41 -0500
From: Ikon@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C09DCC.741B2880
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ikon@mindspring.com=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
Lone Eagle Woman,
=20
There was an excellant article in one of the Wild West mags about 6 =
years ago on the Sheepeater Indians. I have since given that issue to a =
gent who goes by Sheepeater.
I will post on the board and If I can contact him, put you in touch =
with him. He just happens to be a descendant from the Sheepeater =
Indians.
From what I remember, the tribe was made up of indians from various =
tribes. There bows were of sheep horn. A good book for this bow is =
Reginald Laubin's Indian Archery. A must for any bowyer.
Talk to you soon,
Frank V. Rago
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Kayla M. Michael=20
To: hist_text@xmission.com=20
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:53 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
Hello All, I am a new member to this email chat room but I have been =
lurking here and reading
the archieves for years. Greetings All. I live here in NW Wyoming =
and love the wilds and the
old ways. I have some questions ...
I have been very interested and am studing the Sheepeater Indians =
that used to live in this
NW Wyoming area and also in the high mountains of central Idaho. =
They were the only
indians to live year round in the Yellowstone Park region. Osbourne =
Russell in his book
has a description of them when he went thru the Lamar Valley (The =
Secluded Valley).
I am interested in any information that you could send me on them. I =
do know that they
were a subgroup of the Shoshone-Bannock, never acquired the horse, =
and in the 1870's=20
were forced onto the reservations with the Shoshone-Bannocks in =
Wyoming and Idaho.
Does anyone know where I might find in depth information on them and =
their ways, beliefs,
and living habits?
Also I understand that they made excellent bows out of the horns of =
the Bighorn Sheep.
I understand that these were highly prized artifacts and of =
excellent quality. The Sheepeater
diet consisted of much meat from the Bighorn Sheep hence the name =
Sheepeaters.=20
These horns were soften by heat and also sometimes from the geysers =
and hot springs in
Yellowstone Park and molded into shape. I am considering in trying =
to make a bow like
they used to make. Does anyone have information on this, on their =
old bows, and their
bow making techniques? Again, I understand that these bows were =
highly prized artifacts.
Thankyou so very much. Love this discussion Chat Email Service.=20
May The Creator Bless!
Lone =
Eagle Woman
- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C09DCC.741B2880
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:Ikon@mindspring.com"=20
title=3DIkon@mindspring.com>Ikon@mindspring.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com"=20
title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com>hist_text@lists.xmission.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 23, 2001 =
6:38=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: The =
Sheepeater=20
Indians</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lone Eagle Woman,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There was an excellant article in one =
of the Wild=20
West mags about 6 years ago on the Sheepeater Indians. I have =
since=20
given that issue to a gent who goes by Sheepeater.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will post on the board and If I can =
contact=20
him, put you in touch with him. He just happens to be a =
descendant=20
from the Sheepeater Indians.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From what I remember, the tribe was =
made up=20
of indians from various tribes. There bows were of sheep=20
horn. A good book for this bow is Reginald Laubin's Indian=20
Archery. A must for any bowyer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Talk to you soon,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Frank V. Rago</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:kaylam@onewest.net" =
title=3Dkaylam@onewest.net>Kayla M.=20
Michael</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com"=20
title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com>hist_text@xmission.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 23, =
2001 7:53=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: The =
Sheepeater=20
Indians</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello All, I am a new member to =
this email chat=20
room but I have been lurking here and reading</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the archieves for years. Greetings =
All. I live=20
here in NW Wyoming and love the wilds and the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>old ways. I have some questions=20
...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been very interested and am =
studing the=20
Sheepeater Indians that used to live in this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NW Wyoming area and also in the =
high mountains=20
of central Idaho. They were the only</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>indians to live year round in the =
Yellowstone=20
Park region. Osbourne Russell in his book</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>has a description of them when he =
went thru the=20
Lamar Valley (The Secluded Valley).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am interested in any information =
that you=20
could send me on them. I do know that they</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>were a subgroup of the =
Shoshone-Bannock,=20
never acquired the horse, and in the 1870's </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>were forced onto the reservations =
with the=20
Shoshone-Bannocks in Wyoming and Idaho.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone know where I might find =
in depth=20
information on them and their ways, beliefs,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and living habits?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also I understand that they made =
excellent bows=20
out of the horns of the Bighorn Sheep.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I understand that these were highly =
prized=20
artifacts and of excellent quality. The Sheepeater</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>diet consisted of much meat from =
the Bighorn=20
Sheep hence the name Sheepeaters. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>These horns were soften by heat and =
also sometimes from the geysers and hot springs in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yellowstone Park and =
molded into=20
shape. I am considering in trying to make a bow like</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>they used to make. Does anyone have =
information=20
on this, on their old bows, and their</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>bow making techniques? Again, I =
understand that=20
these bows were highly prized artifacts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thankyou so very much. Love this =
discussion=20
Chat Email Service. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May The Creator Bless!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; =20
Lone Eagle Woman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:46:51 EST
From: TerryTwoBear@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
Brother.
sound like polititiojns are in the skins as they cant be
tusted .
your bro
two bear
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:49:54 -0800
From: "Butch Wright" <bwright012@home.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads
I just found this book in prices ranging up to $135. You do have to be
careful as the "concise" mention goes from $25 to $40. I used another book
search service - http://www.bookfinder.com/. I found a copy of the "full
book" for $47 plus shipping. Hope this helps someone else.
Butch
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <LivingInThePast@aol.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads
> The History Of Beads by Lois Sherr Dubin. Abradale Press, New York.
> (www.abramsbooks.com) Covers beads from 30,000BC to the present.
Heavily
> illustrated with a very useful pictorial 'time-line' of beads. If you
have
> the bucks, get the full book, not the concise edition. Both are available
at
> Amazon, Bibliofind, Abramsbooks, etc. Barney
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:18:37 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
Anywhere around Cody?
>
> Richard James
Hello Richard,
I live close to Cody. I have been interested in the Sheepeater's around the
north east fold of the Beartooth Mountains.
Walt
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:48:26 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
In a message dated 2/23/1 04:44:04 PM, Ikon@mindspring.com writes:
<< There bows were of sheep horn. A good book for this bow is Reginald
Laubin's Indian Archery. >>
Reg's book tells how. Reg showe it to me several times and each time little
Gladys told me how he heated and steamed up the cabin boiling water for
bending on their kitchen wood-stove. Just a bit of humor as you re-read that
portion.
RJames
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:03:15 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
In a message dated 2/23/1 05:48:23 PM, TerryTwoBear@aol.com writes:
<< sound like polititiojns are in the skins as they cant be
tusted .>>
Anyone got this one translated? Anyone??
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:05:58 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
In a message dated 2/23/1 07:26:01 PM, Wfoster@cw2.com writes:
<<I live close to Cody. I have been interested in the Sheepeater's around the
north east fold of the Beartooth Mountains.>>
Walt - you are in luck! Slip over to Old Trail Town and talk to Bob Edgar.
Can't think of a better person to put you on the right track.
Dick James
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:22:36 EST
From: BrayHaven@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
In a message dated 2/23/2001 3:51:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SWzypher@aol.com writes:
<< "bear loads" cause the 45-70 would stop a Mack truck with one shot!>>
Just got one of those and havn't yet tried it. What have you hit with one
and what damage did it do?
RJames >>
Used to hunt hogs down here in FL with a trapdoor. Loaded it down with a 300
gr lead bullet. Good round. Very little meat damage.
Greg Sefton
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:33:23 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
In a message dated 2/23/1 08:24:42 PM, BrayHaven@aol.com writes:
<<Used to hunt hogs down here in FL with a trapdoor. Loaded it down with a
300
gr lead bullet. Good round.>>
Black powder??
RJames
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:53:22 EST
From: BrayHaven@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
In a message dated 2/23/2001 10:37:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SWzypher@aol.com writes:
<< <<Used to hunt hogs down here in FL with a trapdoor. Loaded it down with
a
300
gr lead bullet. Good round.>>
Black powder?? >>
Some BP and some "smokeless", I'll dig up the loads and let you know off
line. I did use the original load of 70 grs 2f BP and that worked pretty
well with the light bullet. Probably still have that mould around somewhere
too.
Greg S.
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 04:09:55
From: "jerry strobel" <kes49@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Colt's revolving shotguns(rifles)
Hello all,
Can any of you fine Ladies or Gentlemen help me find or locate any
information regarding Col. Colt's revoving shotguns? I know there alittle
after period for this discussion group, but I am sure a mountaineer who
guided immigrants, or whatever they did after beaver fell would have loved
one. 5 shots of 10 guage in rapid succesion that would also be a .69 cal.
round ball, 5 in as much time as it took to cock and sqeeze the trigger. My
experience in blackpowder firearms is limited so I was hoping a
knowledgeablr gent or Ma'am would steer this pilgrim down the right trail
after revolving shotguns.
Y.M.O.S., Jerry Strobel
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:37:28 -0800
From: "Kayla M. Michael" <kaylam@onewest.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Thanks everyone for your imput on this. I will have to get Reg and =
Gladys book on
Indian Archery. I did find one book on this subject at a local bookstore =
entitled:
"the Sheep Eaters" by W.A. Allen, D.D.S. At the later part of the book =
is an addendum
on the Sheepeaters from the annuls of Wyoming and done by David =
Dominick.=20
It was first published in 1913 but reprinted with the addendum in 1989.
And YES, I am really interested in reproducing one of them bows. I guess
I might have to go Bighorn Sheep hunting sometime.
Richard James, you wondered where I lived. Well, I live here in Jackson =
Hole.
I am usually working in town all winter where I try to save as much =
money as
possible then I try to spend as much of the summer as possible in the =
high country.
My most favorite country seems to be the nice Thorofare Region, the =
headwaters of the
Yellowstone, and the Absaroka Mtns. So you live in Cody. Cody is great =
and I try=20
to get over there every so often. May The Creator Bless!
Lone Eagle Woman
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks everyone for your imput on this. =
I will have=20
to get Reg and Gladys book on</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Indian Archery. I did find one book on =
this subject=20
at a local bookstore entitled:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"the Sheep Eaters" by W.A. Allen, =
D.D.S. At the=20
later part of the book is an addendum</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on the Sheepeaters from the annuls =
of Wyoming=20
and done by David Dominick. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It was first published in 1913 but =
reprinted with=20
the addendum in 1989.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And YES, I am really interested in =
reproducing one=20
of them bows. I guess</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I might have to go Bighorn Sheep =
hunting=20
sometime.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard James, you wondered where I =
lived. Well, I=20
live here in Jackson Hole.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am usually working in town all winter =
where I try=20
to save as much money as</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>possible then I try to spend as much of =
the summer=20
as possible in the high country.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My most favorite country seems to =
be the nice=20
Thorofare Region, the headwaters of the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yellowstone, and the Absaroka Mtns. So =
you live in=20
Cody. Cody is great and I try </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>to get over there every so often. May =
The Creator=20
Bless!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
=20
Lone Eagle Woman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:50:27 -0800
From: "Possum Hunter" <icurapossum_hunter2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
SWzypher@aol.com wrote:
>Anyone got this one translated? Anyone??
>
> In a message dated 2/23/1 05:48:23 PM, TerryTwoBear@aol.com writes:
>
> << sound like polititiojns are in the skins as they cant be tusted .>>
Could it be: "Sounds like the politicians are in the skins (of the Coyote)
as they can't be trusted"?
If this is what TerryTwoBear was saying, I do agree. They cannot be trusted.
Personally, I think most politicians are just plain Buzzards though.
Possum
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:31:56 EST
From: TerryTwoBear@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
BROTHERS.
THATS WHAT IMENT TO SAY THE POLITITIONS ARE IN THE SKINS
OF CYOTES AS THEY CANT BE TRUSTED.
TWO BEAR
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 20:51:28 -0500
From: "James Zeigler" <slzeigle@sunlink.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
Hello List: Can anyone tell me what a Lewis and Clark trade bead looks like?
Thank you in advance.....Jim
- ----------------------
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:54:22 -0600
From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@centurytel.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: trade beads
Schumway has a book on beads.
Frank Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:56:01 -0500
From: "Tim Jewell" <tjewell@home.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "James Zeigler" Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
> Hello List: Can anyone tell me what a Lewis and Clark trade bead looks
like?
Jim,
IIRC the "Lewis and Clark" bead was not traded by them, it was named in
honor of them.
Try http://www.ranchgallery.com/Trade_Bead_Necklaces.html for pictures of
L&C beads,
and http://www.bakerbay.com/index.html for general trade bead pictures,
finally check http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/hist_text-arch/0234.html for
info. on a book about trade beads during the RMFT.
Tim
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:17:23 -0600
From: "jdearing" <jdearing@brick.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now Grizz load
> "bear loads" cause the 45-70 would stop a Mack truck with one shot!
>
> I believe in using only enough (of anything) to get the job done. The
> quieter and the less to-do, the better. (Must be the Indian background?) >
I wonder how many Mack trucks you have shot with that 45-70?
I think you are Waaayyyyy over stating the stopping power of the 45-70.
It is a good cartridge, but a Mack truck? I know fromexperience that
a .45-70 won't even knock a deer off his feet at 40 yards.
If a 45-70 will stop a Mack truck, what would 70 gr. of FFFG in a .45 cal
muzzleloader stop? There really isn't much difference tin the 45-70 and
a 45 cal muzzleloader, except the 45 ML has less recoil because of the
lighter slug.
>A big cloud of smoke, a tremendous "kaboom", and a gun that kicks the
shooter
> almost off his feet might look impressive but if hunting is your "bread
and
> butter", the big show doesn't accomplish anything.
I don't know how many muzzleloaders you have shot, but it can't be many.
IF you have shot any muzzleloaders at all, you must have read the the
writings of
those so called experts who don't know what they are talking about.
Yeah, just stuff two or tree pyrodex pellets in the bore and top 'em of
with a
conical. yeah right.
A friend bought a new "Hawken Rifle" and ask my advise
on loads. I didn't tell him what he wanted to hear so he decided to believe
the
writings of the"experts" and loaded 100 gr. FFG and 450 gr. conical. He
fired
a total of four loads and put that gun away, never to be fired again, and he
is a
big boy, about 6" 2'' and 250#. Have you been reading the same magazine
articles?
I don't get a tremendous boom, more like the sound of thunder, and I have
never been kicked off my feet, and the smoke doesn't seem to bother the
animals at all, and it's usually blown away pretty quickly, and it
doesn't take much wind.
Actually, I get a very mild recoil with hunting loads, 80 gr. FFG behind a
patched
.530 round ball, and have not lost any game shot with a muzzleloader.
I might add that the recoil of my hunting load is less that of a 30-06.
J.D.
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:25:24 EST
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
Looks just like a blue "padre" bead....
Magpie
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:37:22 -0500
From: "Tim Jewell" <tjewell@home.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
Magpie wrote:
> Looks just like a blue "padre" bead....
Hey Magpie,
You're mostly right, the blue beads are blue "padre". There is one large
chevron and two smaller chevrons. The two oblong, dark bead closest to the
tie are the L&C beads. Kinda tricky advertising calling it a Lewis and
Clark Chevron necklace. There is a closer picture of the L&C beads a little
further down the page
Tim
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 20:21:23 -0500
From: hawknest4@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
suggest you contact mrs good at the davis museum in clarimore okla---she
has a documented real one---blue in color i believe---best i can do
pard===
nuff said--
"HAWK"
Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C)
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815
E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 21:22:40 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Sheepeater Indians
In a message dated 2/23/1 10:30:00 PM, kaylam@onewest.net writes:
<<So you live in Cody. Cody is great and I try to get over there every so
often. >>
No, no, no . . . I live 244 miles south and a tad west of you. You said
Nor'west Wyoming and Cody sounded like a good candidate. Jackson is great.
It was greater before it was "discovered". Gladys Laubin said when they moved
there - there were only 1100 people. Then she added: "not in town - in the
WHOLE county.
Good luck on your project.
Dick James
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:31:13 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Grizz load
> I wonder how many Mack trucks you have shot with that 45-70?
> I think you are Waaayyyyy over stating the stopping power of the 45-70.
> It is a good cartridge, but a Mack truck? I know fromexperience that
> a .45-70 won't even knock a deer off his feet at 40 yards.
J.D.
I'm not sure who your addressing here or who's comments. From what you
posted I would say you got two guy's offerings together on the subject but
that is not what I am posting about. I'm really only using your post to make
a point for people new to BP or even some experienced hunters who should
know better.
I will presume that the comment about stopping a Mack Truck is a figure of
speech and not to be taken literally. But as to the killing capability of a
45-70, it has proven itself many times over. And it is not "Knock Down"
power. And if you are not a believer in "Knock Down" power either, my
apologies for suggesting that you are. <G>
We have gone over this before many times on another list if not this one.
"Knock Down" power is a myth perpetuated by high power shooters and writers.
I can't begin to say how many times the simple truth of what happens to
game when they are shot has been beat to death and demonstrated. But the
bottom line with any game and any gun used as a sporting weapon is simply
that if a game animal is not aware of the hunter's (any hunter) presence,
the hit by the bullet or ball will not register with the animal as something
to run from or fall down from. Same goes for the report or the smoke. Unless
the animal is hit in a supporting structure such as the spinal nervous
system or a major bone structure it will not be "Knocked Down" by anything
short of an over legal cal. gun. Period! In fact, in all likelihood it will
remain standing there wondering why it does not feel well. If the shot is
fatal, it will eventually fall over. If it waits long enough and the hunter
is stealthy enough, another shot may be taken, even with a muzzle loader.
I've done it several times and it has been reported by scores of hunters
over several hundred years.
When you see an animal fall at the report of the gun, it has been instantly
made dead such that it won't hold itself up any more or you have hit the
spine, major bone, etc. It is not "Knocked Down".
Other than that, I agree with what you wrote about using too much powder or
a bigger chunk of lead. Waste of resources. <G> Respectfully of course, I
remain......
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 21:25:02 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade beads-L@C bead
Tim, The beads you saw that looked like blue Padre's are blue Padre's. The L
& C beads are the oval shaped ones in that necklace that are not the
Chevrons.
I have a strand of L & C Beads that I inherited from Dances With Wood when he
went to the other side. Most have the commonly seen black backround, but a
couple have a medium blue backround and the spiral flowery designs inlaid
into them are darker; the opposite of most of what you see. Barney
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 22:12:39 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping
In a message dated 2/23/1 11:49:13 PM, icurapossum_hunter2@yahoo.com writes:
<<"Sounds like the politicians are in the skins (of the Coyote)
as they can't be trusted"?
If this is what TerryTwoBear was saying, I do agree. They cannot be trusted.
Personally, I think most politicians are just plain Buzzards though.
Possum>>
Sounds good to me, too. Can we include lawyers with that ilk??
Dick James
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