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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #737
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Sunday, February 4 2001 Volume 01 : Number 737
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Research
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá MtMan-List: what a trapper would have
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Research
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Research
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Research
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Research
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Research
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Research
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Antique Dealers
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Research
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:05:04 EST
From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research
- --part1_61.b1d059c.27af01e0_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Yes, I did my grad work at the Smithsonian, and you definately can get the
star treatment, and access to practically everything if you just ask :) I
worked in Anthropology, which had scores of Native artifacts -- you probably
want the American History Museum. I'm not certain who is working there these
days though, but it should not be too hard to find out. Bon chance!
- --part1_61.b1d059c.27af01e0_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Yes, I did my grad work at the Smithsonian, and you definately can get the
<BR>star treatment, and access to practically everything if you just ask :) I
<BR>worked in Anthropology, which had scores of Native artifacts -- you probably
<BR>want the American History Museum. I'm not certain who is working there these
<BR>days though, but it should not be too hard to find out. Bon chance!</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_61.b1d059c.27af01e0_boundary--
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:08:47 EST
From: Traphand@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
Has anyone totaled up the cost of this list?of what a trapper would had taken
with him,lets say not counting gun and horse. I think you all might be
surprised at total cost.
Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:21:03 EST
From: GHickman@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
hawknest4@juno.com writes:
<< to the like of me cant understand why you want so much
powder and not enough lead to shoot with it its just simple logic or
something in the back of my mind---that i must be missing >>
Powder gets wet it won't work. Lead gets wet still works.
Ghosting Wolf
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:26:49 -0800
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
It has been a couple of years since I looked at the procurement lists for
the L&C Exp. I do recall that many items were purchased and delivered to
other purveyors to be altered or to construct the desired items. So I ask
this question to those of you who are more informed than I....Did the exp.
take both raw lead and the lead containers for their powder, or was the lead
purchased and delivered to someone else to become the same containers?
YMOS
PoorBoy
PoorBoy,
Like you, it has been a while since I looked at the L&C lists, but as I
recall, some keg powder and raw lead was purchased for use in the training
of the men and the early stage of the journey. Once that was used, then
they started on the powder in the lead cannisters.
Now, did Lewis provide the powder that was sealed in the lead cannisters,
or did the manufacturer of the cannisters provide it ? That, is a very good
question. I'll see what I can come up with.
Pendleton
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:45:01 -0600
From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@centurytel.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: what a trapper would have
Ole put together a good list. However, I would increase the number of
flints considerably, mebbe to five dozen to cover not only wear but losses.
Also the knives would make good trade goods and are subject to loss and
breakage, mebbe a dozen each type. None of this would add much weight.
Several fire steels as insurance against loss.
Seems to me that gun fixins, knives and fire start stuff would be the
bare essentials to survival and carrying a few pounds extra would make
sense.
As Hawk would say, jest my humble opinion a course.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 12:50:47 -0700
From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
GHickman@aol.com wrote:
> hawknest4@juno.com writes:
>
> << to the like of me cant understand why you want so much
> powder and not enough lead to shoot with it its just simple logic or
> something in the back of my mind---that i must be missing >>
>
> Powder gets wet it won't work. Lead gets wet still works.
>
> Ghosting Wolf
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
I have read accounts of trappers, travelers, and folks of the westward
movement laying wet powder out on a flat rock, pan or whatever on a sunny
day to dry the moisture out, then putting it back in the dried out kegs
when they felt it had dried enough.
Buck.
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:00:24 -0500
From: "Two Crows" <dbrown@wavegate.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
Please don't quote all the preceding messages when positng to this list.
PLEASE!!!!
David Brown & Kristin Poulsen
Wollendael
4419 Gore-Subligna Rd.
Summerville, GA 30747
To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for
happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost. - Gustave Flaubert
dbrown@wavegate.com
http://www.2crows2.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:00:58 -0800
From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
The canisters were made at Harper's Ferry..hardtack
Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie
O'Donnel fat?
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 13:07:07 -0700
From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
larry pendleton wrote:
> It has been a couple of years since I looked at the procurement lists for
> the L&C Exp. I do recall that many items were purchased and delivered to
> other purveyors to be altered or to construct the desired items. So I ask
> this question to those of you who are more informed than I....Did the exp.
> take both raw lead and the lead containers for their powder, or was the lead
> purchased and delivered to someone else to become the same containers?
>
> YMOS
> PoorBoy
>
> PoorBoy,
> Like you, it has been a while since I looked at the L&C lists, but as I
> recall, some keg powder and raw lead was purchased for use in the training
> of the men and the early stage of the journey. Once that was used, then
> they started on the powder in the lead cannisters.
> Now, did Lewis provide the powder that was sealed in the lead cannisters,
> or did the manufacturer of the cannisters provide it ? That, is a very good
> question. I'll see what I can come up with.
>
> Pendleton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Poorboy, Linda & Larry,
You have mentioned the lead sheet being used to produce the lead canisters,
which is correct, as is the fact some of the powder and lead was used for
training, remember both Lewis and Clark have that military mind-set - being
fresh from that course in their lives. At the time of construction the powder
was taken from the wooden kegs and placed in the new made lead canisters, which
where to be enough ball when melted to equal the powder per container.
Have made containers like these will have to measurer one to give you the specs
on the ratio - melted lead container to powder, after a few attempts we got real
close to what they had.
Some of the items like Poorboy said where used to make what was felt needed
before leaving St. Louis.
I have tried to research the netting that Larry and Linda where talking about,
the closest I've found was made of a coarse weave cotton similar to today's
nylon netting in weave, if you ever get to Bent's Fort, CO look at the one over
St. Vrains bed, would think that's pretty close to texture, size of thread, etc.
used by L&C.
When looking at the list of goods they carried I'm surprised they got 20 miles
out of town.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They had to be some real hard men, think of the crap L&C would have gotten with
us doing the hauling - we would have all been shot. "You want me to do WHAT,
NOW, up yours".
Buck.
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:07:49 -0800
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
Randy wrote:
The canisters were made at Harper's Ferry..
Randy,
That's what I thought, but haven't had time to look it up yet.
LP
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 13:12:27 -0700
From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
- --------------BA341565F7330FC90A041F0B
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Thomas Ballstaedt wrote:
> one could also trade the extra powder for needed items, not anticipated.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Elkflea@aol.com>
> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 3:17 AM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
>
> > Perhaps one reason for having an apparent excess of powder over lead is
> that
> > the fellows were coming from a place where it was common practice to
> 'bark'
> > squirrels. A rationale for 'barking' a squirrel ( shooting the branch the
> > squirrel rests upon as opposed to the squirrel himself and thus the flying
> > spinters kill the beast) ---the rationale being that you would climb up in
> > the tree and pry your ball out of the branch for remelt and hence recycle
> > your lead. Therefore, you would need apparently more powder than you
> > seemingly had lead for. Barking was a common practice in the east. I've
> > tried it and it works quite well. flea
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
most tribes that L&C or early trappers cam across didn't use powder, it wasn't
until the late 1790's that even some of the eastern tribes had any number of
guns, thanks to the French that the tribes in the New England states got them as
early as they did. I can tell you a few stories about the trade up there if
interested, told to me by Hanson.
Buck.
- --------------BA341565F7330FC90A041F0B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Thomas Ballstaedt wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>one could also trade the extra powder for needed
items, not anticipated.
<br>----- Original Message -----
<br>From: <Elkflea@aol.com>
<br>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
<br>Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 3:17 AM
<br>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
<p>> Perhaps one reason for having an apparent excess of powder over lead
is
<br>that
<br>> the fellows were coming from a place where it was common practice
to
<br>'bark'
<br>> squirrels. A rationale for 'barking' a squirrel ( shooting
the branch the
<br>> squirrel rests upon as opposed to the squirrel himself and thus the
flying
<br>> spinters kill the beast) ---the rationale being that you would climb
up in
<br>> the tree and pry your ball out of the branch for remelt and hence
recycle
<br>> your lead. Therefore, you would need apparently more powder
than you
<br>> seemingly had lead for. Barking was a common practice in the
east. I've
<br>> tried it and it works quite well. flea
<br><a href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html"></a> </blockquote>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<br>most tribes that L&C or early trappers cam across didn't use powder,
it wasn't until the late 1790's that even some of the eastern tribes had
any number of guns, thanks to the French that the tribes in the New England
states got them as early as they did. I can tell you a few stories about
the trade up there if interested, told to me by Hanson.
<p>Buck.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br> </html>
- --------------BA341565F7330FC90A041F0B--
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:29:36 -0600
From: "Ethan Sudman" <EthanSudman@home.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
Why not? It's better that way. Otherwise people don't have any idea what
you're talking about when you reply to a previous message.
- - Ethan Sudman (ethansudman@home.com)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Two Crows <dbrown@wavegate.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 2:00 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
> Please don't quote all the preceding messages when positng to this list.
> PLEASE!!!!
>
> David Brown & Kristin Poulsen
> Wollendael
> 4419 Gore-Subligna Rd.
> Summerville, GA 30747
>
> To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are three requirements for
> happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost. - Gustave Flaubert
>
> dbrown@wavegate.com
> http://www.2crows2.com
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:33:33 -0600
From: "Ethan Sudman" <EthanSudman@home.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research
I went to Williamsburg about a year ago. I very much enjoyed it, and learned
a lot from it (I visited Washington, D.C. on the same visit and went to part
of the Smithsonian Institute; I wasn't all that impressed by it, and think
that Chicago's museums easily compete with - and probably outdo - the
Smithsonian). Unfortunately, I never got to go to Jamestown for lack of time
:-((. I'd recommend about two days in Williamsburg if you're just looking to
see everything. If you're looking for more, stay longer :-)).
Sincerely,
Ethan Sudman (ethansudman@home.com)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <SWzypher@aol.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research
>
> In a message dated 2/3/1 06:10:09 PM, EmmaPeel2@aol.com writes:
>
> <<Well - I'd start in the Williamsburg-Jamestown area. >>(for colonial
> research)
>
> Its been 40 years since I was in that area . The Jamestown re-build was
just
> finished. 'twould be nice to re-visit.
> Thank you
> RJames
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:01:27 -0800
From: "Jay Geisinger" <poorboy@ieway.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
>Have made containers like these will have to measurer one to give you the
specs
on the ratio - melted lead container to powder, after a few attempts we got
real
close to what they had.<
Buck, It is great to know that my memory has not gone the way of my belt
line<VBG>. Where did you find dimensions for these lead containers?
(historical ref. please) How did you seal your containers? (again ref.
please). I too, attempted these experiments. The variable that I could not
nail down was the thickness of the lead sheets. Once you calculate the
volume of the powder, it is relatively simple to develop a list of possible
container sizes and shapes. Unfortunately, many of the sizes and shapes are
possible depending on the thickness of the lead sheet. My recollection is
that there is not a reference available to state the sizes of the original
containers, the shape (round, square, etc.) or the volume of powder held; I
may be wrong on this one though.
YMOS
PoorBoy
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:05:02 -0800
From: "Jay Geisinger" <poorboy@ieway.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
Klahowya Ethan,
>Why not? It's better that way. Otherwise people don't have any idea what
you're talking about when you reply to a previous message.<
It is only necessary to quote a line or two, to make everyone else aware of
what you are responding to. Quoting entire messages only uses up valuable
bandwidth, and makes the archives difficult to use.
YMOS
PoorBoy
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:08:53 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility?
Poorboy,
In the archive of this list you will find numerous documented to the period
recipes I have transcribed.
Work arounds have also been provided for some materials no longer
available or advisable.
John...
At 09:34 AM 2/4/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Klahowya my Friends,
>
>Yes, Turp & Linseed is IMHO the best. Also a thought on the availability of
>various oils in the Rocky Mountains. Since wiping sticks were brought into
>rendezvous, I would surmise that they were probably already treated by the
>supplier, and we would have to consider the oils available in St. Louis. A
>second thought would be has anyone ever found documentation of treating
>wiping sticks, tool handles and the like? What do some of the old carpentry
>sources say for treating handles. Perhaps if we can find an original recipe
>favored by the pre-1840 pioneers than we would have our answer. It would
>seem reasonable that the gunsmith would either treat a large batch himself
>or purchase them from a carpenter/supplier already treated. Thus having
>them treated and available to walk in customers and or expedition suppliers.
>Perhaps if no one has any existing research on this one it may be a project
>that I will add to my list of 372 ongoing projects. And yes, my wife says I
>am just that anal.
>YMOS
>PoorBoy
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:21:40 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research
Dick,
Sturbridge Village, Portsmouth Naval Museum, Deerfield Village, Plymouth
Plantation, Winterthur Museum, Montecello, Mount Vernon, Constitution Hall,
Annapolis, Norfolk, Concord, Salem. It's pretty tough to go anywhere back
there without tripping over a bunch of history. Daniel Webster country,
Rip Van Winkle Bridge, you could spend a month in Philadelphia alone. How
much time have you got? How much territory do you plan to cover?
Not colonial: just my favorites: Connor's Prairie 1836, Heye Foundation,
Greenfield Village.
There's a few to get you started -- though the Heye isn't as much fun to
get to; as when it was in the middle of Harlem.
John...
At 10:38 AM 2/4/01 -0500, you wrote:
>To research colonial period:
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:31:56 -0800
From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
If I remember correctly, (don't have time to look up, am taking a break
from digging fence post holes....yes dear...I'll get back to digging
soon....) the L&C lead powder cannisters were threaded, which would
make them cylindrical. They took a dunking in the river, and the powder
remained dry, much to rhe relief of the capt'ns..... hardtack
Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie
O'Donnel fat?
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:20:01 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
In a message dated 2/3/1 11:58:17 PM, hawknest4@juno.com writes:
<<28 X 15lb of lead is ===about 420 round balls in 54 cal or 28 gage
24 X 15lb of lead is ===about 360 round balls in 58 cal or 24 gage
average hunting load for either gun is from 80 to 100 gr lets say 90 gr
average---which gets you about 75 shots to the pound including spillage
and loss>> . . . . and more . . . .
Great stats, Mike. And great stuff to remember for planning. I really like
story problems, but I'm glad you took the time on this one so now I will
never have to. Sincere (which means I really mean it) thanks.
RJames
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:39:47 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research
In a message dated 2/4/1 09:08:27 AM, EthanSudman@home.com writes:
<<Chicago (I live in one of its northeastern suburbs)
has some really good museums, and I think that they are actually BETTER than
the Smithsonian. >>
Ethan - I thought all Chicago was just gangsters, pizza, and the stock
exchange. Tell me about the museums.
Dick James
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:45:12 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research
In a message dated 2/4/1 12:07:37 PM, EmmaPeel2@aol.com writes:
<<Yes, I did my grad work at the Smithsonian, . . . I
worked in Anthropology, which had scores of Native artifacts -- you probably
want the American History Museum. Bon chance!>>
et merci a vous, ausi
Richard James
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:46:06 EST
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
In a message dated 2/4/01 12:28:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
EthanSudman@home.com writes: << Why not? >>
Ethan, like so many things, its matter of moderation. It seems many do like
you did in your reply. It seems you/they don't know you can select specific
text by highlighting it, and then hit reply and only that portion will come
through. The way you did it (and the way Two Crows was talking about) all
the text, headers, footers, etc come through and takes up unnecessary time to
read and additional bandwidth. Barney
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:48:56 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a trapper would have!
In a message dated 2/4/1 12:48:10 PM, conner1@qwest.net writes:
<<to the like of me cant understand why you want so much
> powder>>
Better a lot too much than a little bit short. Besides, you can always trade
the darn stuff.
RJames
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Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:51:02 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
In a message dated 2/4/1 12:56:55 PM, dbrown@wavegate.com writes:
<<Please don't quote all the preceding messages when positng to this list.
PLEASE!!!!>>
THANK YOU DAVID!!!
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Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:01:16 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research
In a message dated 2/4/1 02:22:58 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes:
<<you could spend a month in Philadelphia alone. How
much time have you got? How much territory do you plan to cover?>>
John - this preliminary planning. The question: If I had a chance to go to
one place - what would that one place be?? I can handle that. I have
neither the cash nor the time left on earth to go to all the great places
Dick J.
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Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:24:55 -0600
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research
Dick,
Williamsburg!
It puts you in the vicinity of Montecello, Jamestown, Norfolk, Mount Vernon
and more. It is plenty to see. The University of Virginia is also worth a
visit (designed by Thomas Jefferson). Rick Guthrie is still in the
area. A drive down the Blue Ridge is worthwhile to get a feel for the
topography, flora and fauna.
John...
At 06:01 PM 2/4/01 -0500, you wrote:
>John - this preliminary planning. The question: If I had a chance to go to
>one place - what would that one place be?? I can handle that. I have
>neither the cash nor the time left on earth to go to all the great places
>Dick J.
"A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every
government on Earth... and what no just government should
refuse." --Thomas Jefferson
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Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:31:04 -0600
From: "Ethan Sudman" <EthanSudman@home.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antique Dealers
I can see both sides of that one...
- - Ethan Sudman
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Addison Miller <admiller@brier.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antique Dealers
> > The point a lot of people seemed to miss is that if you KNOW what
> something
> > is worth and you pay a fraction of it's value because the other person
> > DOESN'T, that is dishonest because you are taking advantage of the other
> > person's deficiency.
>
> I still fail to see where anyone was cheated. If I pay what a seller is
> asking for something, and
> he/she makes a profit, and is happy, then how is it taking advantage of
some
> one? I see it all
> the time at the Flea Market here. My wife and I make our living buying
> items at garage sales
> and flea markets and reselling them on eBay and such. I have many times
> picked up a piece
> of West Virginia glass for $40 for as little as $3. I paid the seller
what
> they were asking and
> did not hggle on the price. Why would I say... "Oh my, that is worth $40,
> not $3, so here is
> $40 for it."...?? At an auction, my wife bought a box lot of books... in
> this was a signed copy
> of a book from the late 1800s. She paid $7.50 for the box... the book sold
> for $73. Are you
> saying she should have gone to the auctioneer and given him the profit?
Not
> likely!! That is
> called business in my opinion.
>
> > I guess if it was me who bought that old picture in New England for $10,
> the
> > one that turned out to have a signed copy of the Declaration of
> Independence
> > under it and sold for $$$$ at auction, I would have gone back to find
the
> > person I bought it from and shared the profit.
>
> Let me understand this... you buy a picture at an old second hand shop,
and
> behind
> the pix is a true copy of the Declaration of Independence. You turn around
> and sell
> the copy for say $6,000,000 via Southerby's. You are going to go back to
> this dealer
> and give him say half the profit? Why?? Neither of you knew it was
there,
> and at the
> end of the original deal, you were both happy... he made a profit on the
> picture, and
> you got a picture you wanted. Neither of you knew that the copy was there
in
> the first
> place. How is that cheating anyone if you keep the profit?
>
> > Maybe Buckskinning isn't the place for me after all.
>
> Dear Lady, I disagree with you on that. Buckskinning is full of wonderful
> people, and
> truly honest people... as I pointed out in a previous post. I think that
> some of us just
> do not have ideals that correspond with yours, and if that is the case,
then
> you are in
> for a rude awakening in real life, for not many will ever meausre up to
your
> standards.
> No matter what I have done over the years, I can still look at myselfin
the
> mirror in the
> morning when I shave. My father always taught me... "To thine own self be
> true..." I have
> lived by that, and am not ashamed of anything I have done in my life...
> including paying
> $3 for a $40 piece of W Va glass.
>
> Ad Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 19:00:02 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Please, please, PLEASE
Hey! That's a great article, Frank (I had to erase Mike - that was my
uncle's name). There was a big archive to pick from and none had your name
on it, but with logic I got it right the first time. That was good
coverage, though. They have you right in the middle of all the good stuff -
as it should be.
Knife & Hawk seems to be on the upswing - less politically dangerous than - "
guns". Did you happen to see the hour-long A&E production for "Competition"
featuring the knife and axe at the Fort Bridger Rendezvous last year? They
showed a lot of Bridger Rendezvou (the one I started - in fact I have about 2
frames in the film) but the core of the things was a story centered around
Moki Hipol and his quest for "braggin'rights" over a three day aggregate
throw.
And ya know whut? I got this really neat package in the mail yesterday - all
these little tabloids about knapping. That was certainly thoughtful of you.
I thought I would read through them all and by association walk away from
the papers an expert. Lots of nice articles though and the advertisements
are a real boon. I notice these are a periodical. If you wish I can
copy the parts I need (need?) and return them to you. Was there any of thes
you would recommend/ (A guy could go broke wanting ALL that's advertized
there.
Bean time. Gotta go. More later
Dick
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Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:03:33 -0700
From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Research
SWzypher@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/4/1 02:22:58 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes:
>
> <<you could spend a month in Philadelphia alone. How
> much time have you got? How much territory do you plan to cover?>>
Mr. James,
W.C.Fields said "he spent a week one night in Philadelphia", poor booze and
poorer women.
B.
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