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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #734 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, February 3 2001 Volume 01 : Number 734 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: matches -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's -áááááá Re: Re: MtMan-List: Re: whats period and whats not? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: whats period and whats not? -áááááá MtMan-List: NADA Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: degreasing coon skins -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: degreasing coon skins -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 -áááááá MtMan-List: Fwd: Crooked Knife Exhibit -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fringe -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: matches -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: degreasing coon skins -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: matches -áááááá MtMan-List: Research -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fringe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 07:21:43 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 Todd, Was there a chicken in it? Ole - ---------- >From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com> >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 >Date: Fri, Feb 2, 2001, 9:52 PM > >If you looked real quick there was Crazy Cyot helping toss a kid on a >deer hide that was being worked. >Too bad they didn't show more of the AMM demo camp. > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 07:29:24 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's Linda, I have a book that show clothing in America from 1600 to 1880, during the 17 century (1600) there were Bodices used by most eurpean's. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's >Date: Sat, Feb 3, 2001, 9:48 AM > >Does the Girdle refer to the belt or waist area? > >Linda Holley > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 10:27:24 EST From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? In a message dated 2/2/2001 10:40:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, kramer@kramerize.com writes: << >This may be a wild, bizarre idea, but how about soaking one ramrod in a >small pan of 100% extra virgin olive oil, and one ramrod in a small pan >of jojoba oil to see if the flexibility (or other mechanical properties) >of the hickory rod is greater than with soaking in diesel fuel for one >month. also more period correct? >> What, no diesel fuel... How did they get to Rendezvous? G - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 08:55:05 -0700 From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: matches Frank Fusco wrote: > Joe Bilby asked, > > <Weren't matches an invention of the late 1850s or thereabouts?> > > According to the History Channel, matches first were introduced in 1827. > The were marketed in cardboard folders that looked almost exactly like > modern paper matches. The brand name was 'Lucifers'. I think they were also > called fire sticks. > > Frank G. Fusco ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For period matches, Goose Bay Workshops (Goebel has written documentation) and carries "spalls", these are ancient matches and where used as early as Christ and all the way into the 20th century. The early "spalls" where sulfur on a stick and are lit by getting a spark on your char, bringing it to a glow, then placing the spall on it to ignite. Not the matches that we think of today, biggest problem is putting out the sulfur, this stuff is hot. I believe Paul Jones is also selling them through Clark & Sons Mercantile, they are good in wet weather to get damp grease wood started. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Later, Buck Conner Research page: http://pages.about.com/conner1/ _______HRD__ Personal page: http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ ____________________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 08:56:32 -0700 From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 "Ole B. Jensen" wrote: > Todd, > Was there a chicken in it? > Ole > ---------- > >From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com> > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 > >Date: Fri, Feb 2, 2001, 9:52 PM > > > > >If you looked real quick there was Crazy Cyot helping toss a kid on a > >deer hide that was being worked. > >Too bad they didn't show more of the AMM demo camp. > > > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html I think the kid was the chicken Ole. B. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 11:08:30 -0800 From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's Unfortunately you need to see the terminology. What we call the girdle in the 1950s is not what was called a girdle in the the earlier time periods. I also have many books showing and describing clothing from the 1500s on to this time period and names seem to change with the era. In the colonial times a girdle can also refer to a large, what we might call a belt today, wrapping around the waist and not a bodice. Having also been doing this from the early 1970s, research today can change what we believed in the past. But the problem maybe with the names of articles. And the Capote article is not in an old Buckskin Report magazine. Still cannot find the main article but there was a great one by the late Steve Shawley who wrote many a good line on Plateau and Plains tribes. His article, AICC, shows several drawings of capotes, but they do and do not show fringe. Mostly the time period is 1870s and up. Linda Holley "Ole B. Jensen" wrote: > Linda, > I have a book that show clothing in America from 1600 to 1880, during the 17 > century (1600) there were Bodices used by most eurpean's. > YMOS > Ole # 718 > ---------- > >From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's > >Date: Sat, Feb 3, 2001, 9:48 AM > > > > >Does the Girdle refer to the belt or waist area? > > > >Linda Holley > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 09:16:56 -0700 From: "Daniel L. Smith" <dlsmith@about.com> Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Re: whats period and whats not? <html><head><meta Name='keywords' Content='commtouch, pronto, mail, free email, free, branded, web based, free web based email, communications, internet, software, advertising banners, e-mail, free software'></head><body ><div align='left'><blockquote><blockquote><TT> - ---- Begin Original Message ---- From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Sent: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 06:39:26 -0700 To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: whats period and whats not? > Look at the Iceman discovery, he changed history; the "in the know people" got slapped in the face on their theories of the different ages when "this came to > be" or "that's when this was started", they where a 1000 years off on the bronze > axe. > Buck. Make that a copper axe Buck. Walt - ---- End Original Message ---- He knows that Walt, probably in a hurry and messed up, he's going in three ways at once anymore. Look at: http://pages.about.com/conner1/iceman2.html Buck has pictures of the Iceman clothing,equipage and weapons ("bronze axe too)along with information on him. He been working on the Indian part now, from what his wife told me. I'll tell him he had better slow down. </TT> <TT>Later, Daniel L. "Concho" Smith _____________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT_______HRD__ Visit these related sites at: http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/_________HRD__ http://pages.about.com/conner1/_________HRD__ _____________________________________________ </TT> <TT>Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com </TT></blockquote></blockquote></div></body></html> - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:24:48 -0700 From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: whats period and whats not? - --------------D2059A8057EF5231A46981A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Make that a copper axe Buck. > Walt > --------------------------- > Buck has pictures of the Iceman > clothing,equipage and weapons ("bronze > axe too).......... > I got the message Walt and Concho, yes it is a "COPPER" headed axe, cute Concho making the same mistake I did - trying to rub it in old turd. B. - --------------D2059A8057EF5231A46981A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <blockquote TYPE=CITE> <blockquote> <blockquote><tt>Make that a copper axe Buck.</tt> <tt>Walt</tt> --------------------------- <tt>Buck has pictures of the Iceman clothing,equipage and weapons ("bronze axe too)..........</tt></blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> I got the message Walt and Concho, yes it is a "COPPER" headed axe, cute Concho making the same mistake I did - trying to rub it in old turd. B.</html> - --------------D2059A8057EF5231A46981A0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:47:45 -0800 From: "Possum Hunter" <icurapossum_hunter2@yahoo.com> Subject: MtMan-List: NADA Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? BrayHaven@aol.com wrote: > > What, no diesel fuel... How did they get to Rendezvous? Gasoline engines were used in the RVs made at the time :-) Possum - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:51:14 -0500 (EST) From: todd glover <tetontodd@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 OLe, No chicken, just Crazy and a few other pairs of arms tossing a tiurist kid like a trampoline. My daughter was in it for about one second. Todd - ------Original Message------ From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: February 3, 2001 3:56:32 PM GMT Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 "Ole B. Jensen" wrote: > Todd, > Was there a chicken in it? > Ole > ---------- > >From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com> > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 > >Date: Fri, Feb 2, 2001, 9:52 PM > > > > >If you looked real quick there was Crazy Cyot helping toss a kid on a > >deer hide that was being worked. > >Too bad they didn't show more of the AMM demo camp. > > > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html I think the kid was the chicken Ole. B. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:03:11 EST From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? rtlahti@email.msn.com writes: << How do we pick two or three hickory rods that have the same exact tensile strength so we know that each "liquid" gets a fair test and that the breakage wasn't caused by a flaw in the wood? >> Probably have to increase the sample size to say at least 10 rods for each treatment and then average and compare outcomes. Don't forget the horse manure variable also. My .02 worth. YMOS Ghosting Wolf - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:08:57 -0600 From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 11:08:30 -0800 Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> writes: > Unfortunately you need to see the terminology. What we call the > girdle in the > 1950s is not what was called a girdle in the earlier time > periods. In the colonial times > a girdle > can also refer to a large, what we might call a belt today, wrapping > around the > waist and not a bodice. Linda, You're right. Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary definition of girdle: a band or belt; something drawn round the waist of a person, and tied or buckled; as a girdle of fine linen; a leathern girdle. Girdle-belt: a belt that circles the waist. The bodice is not so easily defined or can it be quickly pinned down as to what it is or is not. There is plenty about this in the 18c woman list's archives. The dialogue about bodices, especially the Ubiquitous French Bodice (UFB), commonly seen and incorrectly worn at Rendezvous, is as vehement as some of the word wars I've seen on this list. Of course, the ladies don't use phrases such as "not giving a rat's patute" (or the Penndleton equivalent <G>), but they get mighty close to it at times! Victoria - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:16:09 EST From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: degreasing coon skins HikingOnThru@cs.com writes: << could use regular old borax found in the cleaning supply section (I.E. - "20-mule team", etc.) for this? >> Exactly what you use, it is pure borax. It is traditionally used for bird skins in museum collections. I have used it successfully on many furs. It doesn't absorbe water from the air, dries faster, keeps insects out, helps remove blood from hair, inhibits spoilage and bacterial growth, and you can just dump it out into a container and reuse it several times. I started using it years ago when preparing scientific and museum specimens when I worked for the University as an undergrad student. Hide comes out stiff and hard like it had been salted. It does not however completely remove all of the fat on greasey hides like coon, badger, otter, etc. Works wonders when I dry whole pheasant or turkey skins. You still have some old fashion fleshing to do, but I prepare borax over salt for preparing hides. YMOS Ghsoting Wolf - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:25:53 EST From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: degreasing coon skins GHickman@aol.com writes: <> That is I prefer borax over salt. Ghosting Wolf - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:05:01 -0800 From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: French Bodice's Hey, thanks.....love a good talk..... ;-) Linda Holley Victoria Pate wrote: > On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 11:08:30 -0800 Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> > writes: > > Unfortunately you need to see the terminology. What we call the > > girdle in the > > 1950s is not what was called a girdle in the earlier time > > periods. In the colonial times > > a girdle > > can also refer to a large, what we might call a belt today, wrapping > > around the > > waist and not a bodice. > > Linda, > You're right. > Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary definition of > girdle: a band or belt; something drawn > round the waist of a person, and tied or buckled; > as a girdle of fine linen; a leathern girdle. > Girdle-belt: a belt that circles the waist. > > The bodice is not so easily defined or can it > be quickly pinned down as to what it is or > is not. There is plenty about this in the > 18c woman list's archives. The dialogue about > bodices, especially the Ubiquitous French Bodice > (UFB), commonly seen and incorrectly worn > at Rendezvous, is as vehement as some > of the word wars I've seen on this list. Of > course, the ladies don't use phrases such as > "not giving a rat's patute" (or the Penndleton > equivalent <G>), but they get mighty > close to it at times! > > Victoria > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 12:13:21 -0700 From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0600 At 12:51 PM 02/03/2001 -0500, you wrote: >OLe, > >No chicken, just Crazy and a few other pairs of arms tossing a tiurist kid >like a trampoline. My daughter was in it for about one second. > >Todd The kid tossing was real popular. There was a line of the little varmints waiting their turn. The hide turned out nice too....... Allen - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 12:14:48 -0700 From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Crooked Knife Exhibit Here's an announcement about a new online museum I though I'd pass on.... >Received: from [130.111.39.64] (helo=franklin.unet.maine.edu) > by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) > id 14Ossv-0006B0-00 > for drudy@xmission.com; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 19:57:09 -0700 >Received: from voyager (voyager.umeres.maine.edu [130.111.71.9]) > by franklin.unet.maine.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA01152 > for <drudy@xmission.com>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:57:08 -0500 >From: Kimberly_Sawtelle@umit.maine.edu (Kimberly Sawtelle) >To: drudy@xmission.com >Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:00:38 -0500 >Subject: Crooked Knife Exhibit >Message-ID: <msg7569373.thr-7bb0c31.4c4d19@umit.maine.edu> >Organization: University of Maine >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Content-ID: <msg7569373.thr-7bb0c31.4c4d19.part0@umit.maine.edu> >X-Gateway: NASTA Gate 2.0 for FirstClass(R) >X-UIDL: _Oh"!Lf5!!9B[!!g%1"! > >The Hudson Museum, University of Maine, recently posted an online >exhibit entitled Crooked Knives: Tools of the Trade. The URL for the >exhibit is: >http://www.umaine.edu/hudsonmuseum/crknives/index.html. > >I was told this exhibit, which includes a gallery of photographs of >carved wood, bone and antler handle crooked knives, may be of interest >to members of the American Mountain Men organization. Your e-mail >address was the only contact information I found at the AMM site. >Perhaps you can pass the information on through the appropriate >channels, if it is of interest? You are welcome to add a link to the >exhibit from the AAM web site, if you wish. > >Thank you. > >Kim Sawtelle >Hudson Museum >University of Maine - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 13:57:24 -0600 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? BJ's Keeper, Jon Marinetti wrote what you quote not I. None of the materials mentioned would have been traditionally used to any= =20 similar purpose. If we were doing an oil test I would suggest rendered=20 beaver, deer, bison, elk, moose or bear fat. That is what was most commo= n=20 in the mountains during the fur trade. I suggested horse manure or better straight grain wood. That is what wou= ld=20 be most traditional. Someone asked how to determine if all the sticks started out equal. if t= wo=20 end supports were mounted to a board over a dial indicator and a fixed=20 weight of app. 2 lbs were affixed to the shaft at the same point it could= =20 be determined if the rods were of the same original stiffness. Then one=20 set of matching shafts could be broken with a measured weight, a set=20 treated by each methodology and then broken to determine if any improveme= nt=20 resulted. This is not dissimilar from a spine tester for arrows other than you woul= d=20 need the support points separated further than 26". John... At 10:27 AM 2/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/2/2001 10:40:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, >kramer@kramerize.com writes: > ><< >This may be a wild, bizarre idea, but how about soaking one ramrod i= n a > >small pan of 100% extra virgin olive oil, and one ramrod in a small p= an > >of jojoba oil to see if the flexibility (or other mechanical properti= es) > >of the hickory rod is greater than with soaking in diesel fuel for on= e > >month. also more period correct? >> > >What, no diesel fuel... How did they get to Rendezvous? > >G > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< <http://www.kramerize.com/> mail to: <kramer@kramerize.com> - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:31:29 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soaking Hickory Ramrods to improve flexibility? have tried the olive oil---doesnt seem to want to penitrate as well as the thinner coil oil or decil would take a bit of the other oil and dont have any at hand or i would try it---as long as you fill the pores of the wood complete it makes a more homogenious rod thus the flexibility and strength and toughness in my estimation either would work in that contex but would have to test it over time to prove its reliability in my estimation---- just my humbel opiunion of course Hawk On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:53:33 -0500 (EST) JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) writes: > Hey Hawk, > This may be a wild, bizarre idea, but how about soaking one ramrod > in a > small pan of 100% extra virgin olive oil, and one ramrod in a small > pan > of jojoba oil to see if the flexibility (or other mechanical > properties) > of the hickory rod is greater than with soaking in diesel fuel for > one > month. also more period correct? > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > from Michigan > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! 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For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:07:15 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fringe pendelton. many years ago when getting into buckskinning I noted a lot of plastic pilgrems that always had a lot of fringe on their costumes---and while sitting and talking with dale black---dan anderson and hawk bowerton about fringe and its usage was informed that most fringe is decrative except when used as a water break or or dew breaker ---I am probably using the wrong term---so i will give you a example I have a pair of deer skin pants hand crafted--have worn them for over 30 years---they have several repairs in them ---when i made them I didnt have deer hides long enough to make in one piece so used 2 hides and then they were not long enough so had to add some material at the bottom from a suggestion from the above guys they said i should put a dew breaker on them---and what that is is where the joint of the upper part is joined to the bottom part is a rim of hide about 1 to 1 1.2 " long it is sewwed to the top with this rim of skin out this is then split into fringe---this rim of fringe is just below my knee about 6" and when going thru wet grass the bottom of the pants gets wet but seems to stop at the fringe line---and it is that fringe line that due to the added surface area helps to dry the pants out quicker and the moisture not migrate above this point----look in smithsonian there is a couple of pair of pants that have this same ring of very short fringe in this area---decorations I think not---dew breakers I believe is what it is as it works---look at dales pants his are the same---also if you split small fringe at the very bottom of the cuff it also helps more and also helps to keep the leather soft and not get brittle as most brain tan when it gets wet gets hard if not worked or if it was not properly tanned and streached and worked when it was tanned---its also like the riflemans shirt that had small fringe around the top of the sholders this was to help to dry it out to give more drying surface and to shed water---from what i was informed by the old gray beards ---and i and they might both be wrong but it works--- note this fringe doesnt go up and down it goes around ---and in a lot of the old leggens you see the short cuts at the cuff also---just my humbel opinion of course--- On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:47:42 -0800 "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> writes: > Rick wrote: > I'm hoping you can elaborate on fringe helping to shed water? What > exactly > do > you mean? > > Rick, > As the rain falls on the cape of a frock, it travels to the rows > of > fringe, where it wicks out of the fabric rather than stopping at the > hem and > continueing to soak everything under it. Now understand, there is > nothing > absolutely waterproof in a long rainstorm, but a well made frock > will work > well. The cape will be very wet while the shoulders will stay > fairly dry. > Many of the 'driving coats' worn by the well-to-do during the 18th > century > had multiple capes on them to protect the wearer from the rain. > > Pendleton > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:16:44 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: matches In a message dated 2/3/1 06:28:09 AM, frankf@centurytel.net writes: <<According to the History Channel, matches first were introduced in 1827. The were marketed in cardboard folders that looked almost exactly like modern paper matches. The brand name was 'Lucifers'. I think they were also called fire sticks.>> "Lucifer Sticks" can be found in the Henry Ford museum near Detroit. Inside the package all the "sticks" were cut from a single block of wood but were all still attached at the base. I presume it was far easier (especially in those days) to dip the heads while everything was still attached. In use, each match could be easily split away from the base much as book matches are today. Lotsa other good stuff on that "campus" also. RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:35:01 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: degreasing coon skins In a message dated 2/3/1 07:11:33 AM, HikingOnThru@cs.com writes: <<was wondering if you could use regular old borax found in the cleaning supply section (I.E. - "20-mule team", etc.) for this? Thanks!>> Yup. The intended product is Borax not Boraxo (for the hands). I did see one fellow using Boraxo for welding flux one time for forge welding He just didn't know the difference - but it worked. Probably would work just as well for de-greasing. It can be used two ways: First as a dessicant to be packed in tight and draw the oiliness from the hide, and second just to wash it out. RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:47:57 EST From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: matches The HIstory Channel! Now there's good documentation. <grin> - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:54:51 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Research This is a little off the most common period of research for this group, but still a good place to ask this question: Where are the very top places - museums / sites - to go back east to research the Colonial period and the Rev War?? This would be seeking out living quarters, tools, frontier home belongins, clothing, weapons . . . you know - the "stuff". Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 18:07:04 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fringe In a message dated 2/3/1 01:45:07 PM, hawknest4@juno.com writes: <<-and while sitting and talking with dale black---dan anderson and hawk bowerton about fringe and its usage was informed that most fringe is decrative except when used as a water break or or dew breaker --->> . . . and much more besides. When I was getting really deep into research in my early buckskin years there was wisdom from somewhere I can't remember that said fringe had three purposes according to Indians. First - it dried out quicker that the rest of the garment (being more exposed to air) and so drew the moisture out of the rest of the material, Second - the fringe broke up the outline of the wearer to someone/-thing watching from afar, giving a softer outline rather than a hard one, and finally, "swishing" around like it does helps shoo away bugs. I checked it out in"the field" and it works. Decoration be damned. Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #734 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.