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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #725 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, January 30 2001 Volume 01 : Number 725 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: skinning raccoons and my moral dilemna -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What is "authentic" -áááááá MtMan-List: Liver-eating Johnson article -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder? -áááááá MtMan-List: For TraprJohn -áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Powder? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: skinning raccoons and my moral dilemna -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: skinning raccoons and my moral dilemna -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: salt barrels -áááááá MtMan-List: "Liver-eating"Johnson article -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls -áááááá MtMan-List: Mountain Man book series -áááááá MtMan-List: French bodice & other don'ts -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder? -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: French bodice & other don'ts -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: French bodice & other don'ts -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: salt barrels -áááááá MtMan-List: Potts bag & gun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:23:14 -0600 From: "Douglas Hepner" <dullhawk@texomaonline.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: skinning raccoons and my moral dilemna I don't know whether or not the coon would have lived, but like you say, it is one of God's creatures same as the coyote or buzzard that would feed on the carcass. I skin 'em and remove the penis bone and sometimes the skull or teeth, but I throw the rest to the rest of the critters that need the meal. I don't feel guilty because nothing goes to waste. Like one of my favorite actors (Clint Eastwod) said in the movie "Outlaw Josey Wales", ..."Buzzard's gotta eat, same as a worm." YMOS Douglas Hepner - ----- Original Message ----- From: <HikingOnThru@cs.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 11:10 AM Subject: MtMan-List: skinning raccoons and my moral dilemna > Hey list, > > Let me begin by saying that my dilemna is not is skinning raccoons or any > other animal...arather, how I just came by the one outside waiting to be > skinned. As I was driving to my family farm to get a load to cow manure > forthe garden, I noted a roadkill coon. On my way back I stopped to throw it > in back of the truck as it looked quite dead and banged up (NOTE: ALWAYS TEST > YOUR DEAD ANIMALS WITH A LONG IMPLEMENT QUITE WELL BEFORE PICKING THEM UP - > as this one was not quite dead and woke up rather groggily). It tried to > move and walked with a severe limp and it was quite obvious it had head > trauma. It limped up the bank, back toward the road, toward the bank, then > along the road, etc. I guided it with the shovel I had to keep it from > getting in the road. Once in the woods I watched it thinking maybe it would > get its bearings. IT did OK on level ground but seemed to have trouble > walking over sticks and such or clearing basic ground litter. I have always > been taught it is more merciful to put an injured animal out of its misery > than to let it go on suffering for hours and possibly days. It was obvious > to me that the critter could not climb a tree...and we have a lot of coyotes > around here....It would not defend itself from me and was a small coon to > begin with. It did not hiss at me of even put up a defense or run...just > seemed very stoned. This was the second time I had to look a living creature > in the eye from even arm's distance and make a decision to kill or let it be. > (The first was a doe with a car-shattered pelvis...easy decision). Long > story short..I retrieved my pistol from the truck and shot the coon in the > neck. It was a well-placed shot, but I reccomend a head shot if anyone has > to do thesame in the future. MY DILEMNA: Did the coon really stand a chance > to living in the cold and with the coyotes? Why do I worry about this? All > the creatures around us are part of God's creation and I believe it is our > responsibility to know how to respect them...including knowing when and when > not to intervene with them. I faced the situation once, so I may have to > face it again AND I just do not know that much about raccoons. I figured > some of you may have practical experience in this area. Well, I have a > raccoon to skin out and cow manure to spread. > > Thanks, > -C. Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:00:58 EST From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What is "authentic" Get ahold of fort osage they have a group there call boones rangers are get to the web site boones rangers Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:11:09 -0700 From: "Terrance Luff" <havenotmetis@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Liver-eating Johnson article This is from an article in the montana standard butte montana monday morning december 8,1941. i will shorten article but if covers about a full page in all , with alot of info about johnson. all my life i have heard storys of the famous johnson.he is a part of montana and its history(but thats a different story) STARTS AS; colorful eastern montana character passed through many years of daring and adventure. englishman by birth,was in california gold rush,fought threw civil war came o montana. served in nearly all the indian war of the easter district and was at variou times chief of scouts for general Miles.also wolfing,propecting,game hunter, smuggling whiskey and cutting fire wood alone the missouri river for steam boats."Liver-eating" johnson was a fine specimen of physical man hood. he stood well over six feet and weighed 220 pounds. johnsons personl was very sartling, which was possibly a valuable asset in his indian conflics. like blackbeard he wore a shaggy growth of jet black whiskers that stood out at times, like bristles about his frowning visage. an enormous crop of long touseled black hair hung down over his face and about his shoulders in unkempt profusion. he seldom wore a hat,if starting away on a expedition of any kind with a hat he invariably returned bare headed.'BLACK BEAR' to the crow. "Liver-eating" Johnson gained his peculia on de guerre in an encounter with the sioux down on the musselshell river, near its junction with the missouri river in 1870{goes on about 1/4 page on the battle, i will jump to the end) Johnson plunged at the spot from which the arrow had come. he found an unarmed hellpless brave lying on the ground. he dropped his rifle and unsheathed his hunting knife."I am going to kill you"he said (he spoke sioux like a native) "but iam going to scalp you first. then i shall cut your throat like a dog's. the indian listened with the apparent indifference of a cynic, johnson carried out his threat. the scalp came off with a noise like the report of a small pistol. tears rolled down the indians cheeks but never once did he ask for mercy. johnson seized him by his remaining hair, twisted him across his knee and severed the indians head his body. he tossed the head and the trunk on the ground and strode back to jion his comrades, blood dripping from his hans and knife. a piece of flesh and adrered to the piont of the knife.some one noticed it and asked what it was. "piece of indian live" johnson answered. "I just made a feast on one, I brought a piece along,thinking some of you might wish to sample it" he offered his knife to several but none showed any taste for indian liver"awful good"johnson declared. "when im ou on the plains i eat lots of indian liver" and he pretended to take the strip of flesh from the point of knife with his lips. in reality he hand by a twist dropped it to the ground from that time henceforth he was known as "LIVER-EATING'JOHNSON. ter _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:16:33 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder? Out of curiosity, how did a trapper transport additional powder? You've obviously got your horn, but what about restocking said horn? I know most (if not all) trappers had 1 or more horses, so I'm assuming additional powder was carried there? What type of containers were used? What do folks use today when trying to maintain authenticity? Todd, Gun Powder was transported in wooden kegs, most likely sealed with beeswax. I can't remember what size was typical. Greg mentioned lead containers. Lewis and Clark carried their powder in such a manner, but I do not remember reading where anyone else did the same. The Lewis and Clark method was very ingenious, because the lead containers held the right amount of powder to shoot the amount of lead in the containers. Today, most of the guys I know carry fairly large powder horns that will hold 3/4 to 1 lb. of powder. More than enough for an extended stay in the woods. Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:23:57 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd" <farseer@swbell.net> To: "MtMan" <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 3:49 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Powder? <Out of curiosity, how did a trapper transport additional powder? Tod. How about extra horns? Wooden kegs or lead kegs that could be melted down for bullets. L&C and most expeditions carried extra powder in such lead kegs. <You've obviously got your horn, but what about restocking said horn? Cached powder, refilling from an extra horn. Keep in mind that they didn't use as much powder as one might expect. How long would your horn of powder last if you were shooting a reduced load of a grain or a bit more per cal.? Mine would last most of a year and I doubt I would need to take a shot every day to feed myself and my companions much less having to defend against attack on a regular basis. < I know most (if not all) trappers had 1 or more horses, so I'm assuming additional powder was carried there? Seems likely. < What type of containers were used? I'm guessing extra horns or a keg. < What do folks use today when trying to maintain authenticity? Most of the fellas I know just have one horn on them and don't carry several pounds of extra just because it might have been done way back. A horn of powder lasts a long time unless your shooting at a range every day. Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:33:25 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: For TraprJohn This post is for TraprJohn. I thought I had saved his e-mail address but apparently have failed to do so. If you are out there Traprjohn, please respond offline! Thanks! - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:33:49 -0600 From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Powder? Good points. Thought about the fact that we tend to go through a whole = lot more powder than our ancestors would. My horn holds about 1 a half = pound, and that does last me for a while. =20 Todd > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Todd" <farseer@swbell.net> > To: "MtMan" <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 3:49 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Powder? >=20 >=20 > <Out of curiosity, how did a trapper transport additional powder? >=20 > Tod. >=20 > How about extra horns? Wooden kegs or lead kegs that could be melted = down > for bullets. L&C and most expeditions carried extra powder in such = lead > kegs. >=20 > <You've obviously got your horn, but what about restocking said horn? >=20 > Cached powder, refilling from an extra horn. Keep in mind that they = didn't > use as much powder as one might expect. How long would your horn=20 > of powder > last if you were shooting a reduced load of a grain or a bit more=20 > per cal.? > Mine would last most of a year and I doubt I would need to take a=20 > shot every > day to feed myself and my companions much less having to defend = against > attack on a regular basis. >=20 > additional powder was carried there? >=20 > Seems likely. >=20 > < What type of containers were used? >=20 > I'm guessing extra horns or a keg. >=20 > < What do folks use today when trying to maintain authenticity? >=20 > Most of the fellas I know just have one horn on them and don't=20 > carry several > pounds of extra just because it might have been done way back. A horn = of > powder lasts a long time unless your shooting at a range every day. >=20 > Capt. Lahti' >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:43:56 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: skinning raccoons and my moral dilemna In a message dated 1/29/01 7:28:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, dullhawk@texomaonline.com writes: <> I will go ahead and show my ignorance ("Ignorance can be educated; stupididty is forever"). What is the reason for removing the penis bone? Does it have a particular application? (And all of you amateur comedians, JUST LET THAT ONE GO!!!<VBG>) The coon did get skinned and fleshed and is awaiting further processing in the freezer. The carcass was thrown in a gully in the field beside my home where the rest of nature can recycle it. I am leary of doing anything with the skull because of any present rabies (which resides in the brain and salivary glands). Thanks for the info. - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:50:27 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: skinning raccoons and my moral dilemna What is the reason for removing the penis bone? They are used to make "ivory" toothpicks. Seriously. Check the hatbands at your next doin's. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 2001 19:07:18 -0700 From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: salt barrels I might make the guess that he set up camps and operated pout of them. If = so, he might have carried the salt abarrel with him to use during the day = and leave the rest in camp. Just a guess??? Don On Tuesday, March 19, 1940, Roger Lahti <rtlahti@email.msn.com> wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "tom roberts" <troberts@gdi.net> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 3:37 AM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: salt barrels > > >> Capt, >> >> All you say about the worth of salt makes >> complete sense. The thing that is unclear to >> me is why this was carried in his shooting >> pouch with all the other things which seem >> substantially more important to the pursuit of >> his task as a hunter and his ability to >> provide for his own survival. > >Tom, > >Like as has been said, perhaps that salt barrel just got thrown in by a >relative. Perhaps our hunter felt he had room and if he had to head for >cover without his bed roll, haversack with extra food and whatever he was >carrying; as long as he had his pouch, horn and gun, he generally had = all >the makings of a safe, warm, happy, wilderness home. Who knows. ><G> > >Capt. Lahti' > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:10:56 -0700 From: "Terrance Luff" <havenotmetis@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: "Liver-eating"Johnson article this is from an article in the MONTANA STANDARD BUTTE MONTANA monday morning, december 8 1941. i will shoren article but it covers about a full page in all,with alot of info about JOHNSON.All my life i have heard storys of the famous Johnson,he is a part of montana and its history (but different storys) STARTS AS; colorful eastern montana character passed through many years of daring and adventure. Englishman by birth,was in california gold rush,fought threw civil war,came to montana. served in nearly all the indian war of easter district and was at various times chief of scouts for general miles,also wolfing,prspecting,game hunter,smuggling whiskey and cutting fire wood along the missouri river for steam boats."Liver-Eating" johnson was a fine specimen of physical man hood. he stood well over six feet and weighed 220 pounds,johnsons personl appearance was very startling,which was possibly a valuable asset in his indian conflicks. like blackbeard he wore a shaggy growth of jet black whiskers that stood out at times, like brisles about his frowning visage. and enormous crop of long touseled black hair hung down over his face and about his shoulders in unkempt profusion. he seldom wore w hat, if starting away on a expedition of any kind with a hat he invariably returned bare headed. 'BLACK BEAR' to the crow. "Liver-eating" Johnson gained his peculiar mon de guerre in an encounter with the sioux down on the musselshell river, near its juction with the missouri river in 1870 ( paper goes on about 1/4 page on the battle, i will jump to the end) Johnson plunged at the spot from which the arrow had come. he found an unarmed helpless brav lying on the . the dropped his rifle and unshe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:04:17 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters > Has anyone considered that at least some of what have been identified as > short starters are in fact ramrods for pistols? > >> > > No. They are not. > RJ Guess that pretty much settles that! <G> Capt. Lahti I ain't goin there ! Pendleton' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:11:57 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters In a message dated 1/29/1 04:27:02 PM, rtlahti@email.msn.com writes: <<Has anyone considered that at least some of what have been identified as > short starters are in fact ramrods for pistols? > >> > > No. They are not. > RJ Guess that pretty much settles that! <G> Capt. Lahti' >> WHAT-T-T??!! You are going to let it go at THAT?? (You must be getting tired of this - too.) RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:17:00 -0500 From: "D. Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls RJ Picture my shoulder blades a touchin'... D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:41:32 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls In a message dated 1/29/1 08:17:51 PM, deforge1@bright.net writes: <<Picture my shoulder blades a touchin'... D>> O.K. - got it. I'm working on the image. RJ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:42:38 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Fisher <difisher@yahoo.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Man book series The Authur H. Clark publishing company is reprinting the 10 volume set of books on the mountain men. I think they will only reprint 750 sets, so if you what a very good set of reference books, get in touch with them up in Spokane. This is the same company that printed the original series. Dennis Fisher __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:38:37 -0700 From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: French bodice & other don'ts Okay, if a newby *asks* "What are the common historical errors that I should avoid?", what should we say? After all, there are things out there that lots of people wear/do/use that cannot be documented as being made or used *anywhere* in North America or England during the 1800-1850 time frame, and that goes double for the fur trade! My nomination, from my own research & the consensus of the 18th Century Woman list, is what has been labelled the "UFB" or "Ubiquitous French Bodice". Most of you guys know what I mean, I'm sure, but for those who don't, here's a picture of it: http://www.jastown.com/womens/fbodice.htm And here's its equally disreputable cousin, the "English Bodice": http://www.jastown.com/womens/ebodice.htm You see these garments so often that it's easy to be fooled into thinking that they're fully documented. Unfortunately, nothing can be further from the truth. An article that neatly sums up the problems with the UFB can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cWoman/files/BAR-Courier-articles/mythbodc.html (You may have to join the 18cWoman list to read this article; to do so, go to www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions, then look up the article under the 18cWoman 'files' heading.) To summarize Ingrid's article, the UFB isn't jumps (it isn't boned), and it isn't a waistcoat (hasn't got the right styling), is often made in the wrong fabric, and even if it *were* correct, it would be considered underwear, and not worn in public. Any other nominations for this list of completely undocumented, but frequently-seen, "don'ts"? I don't mean things that we do have some documentation for, like short starters, but stuff that has not been documented at all. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:47:03 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder? In a message dated 1/29/1 04:59:57 PM, BrayHaven@aol.com writes: <<<< Out of curiosity, how did a trapper transport additional powder? You've obviously got your horn, but what about restocking said horn? I know most (if not all) trappers had 1 or more horses, so I'm assuming additional powder was carried there? What type of containers were used? What do folks use today when trying to maintain authenticity? >>>> I though someone would have given you another reference by now. The lead containers are good, though. I believe I saw one at the Museum of the Fur Trade many years ago when I first met Charlie and Jim. For another reference, though I have seen them and seem pictures of them when powder was being stored at a fort in especially large horns - too big to be practical for "over the shoulder". One I remember was a matched set of horns joined in the middle but used for powser storage. When you think about it - it would be hard to come up with something (in those days) of a material superior to horn. So that's it - big horns and big double horns for storage and transport Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:12:23 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder? > For another > reference, though I have seen them and seem pictures of them when powder was > being stored at a fort in especially large horns - too big to be practical > for "over the shoulder". I also remember reading a "trade list" several years ago that mentioned a specified number of "horns of powder." At the time, this led me to deduce that horns were also used as a shipping and packaging material; and, that everyone did not have a personal horn that they carried and filled from a separate source. Instead, they just drew a horn of powder from the company stores and tied a cord around it to sling it from their shoulder. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:07:55 -0500 From: "Tim Jewell" <tjewell@home.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd" <farseer@swbell.net> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 6:49 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Powder? <Out of curiosity, how did a trapper transport additional powder? You've obviously got <your horn, but what about restocking said horn? I know most (if not all) trappers had 1 or <more horses, so I'm assuming additional powder was carried there? What type of <containers were used? What do folks use today when trying to maintain authenticity? I have seen at least one reference to powder bags (in list of goods Ashley took to rendezvous in 1825). It seems I also recall some speculation that these were shooting bags but if you look at the quantity (2) and the weight (150lbs) they appear to be some type of transport/storage bags. There was no further description of style or material. I'm new to this research/documentation mindset so give me a little break if my conclusion is off track <G>. I remain your most humble servant, Tim Jewell tjewell@home.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:21:42 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters - ----- Original Message ----- From: <SWzypher@aol.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:11 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters > > In a message dated 1/29/1 04:27:02 PM, rtlahti@email.msn.com writes: > > <<Has anyone considered that at least some of what have been identified as > > short starters are in fact ramrods for pistols? > > >> > > > > No. They are not. > > RJ > > Guess that pretty much settles that! <G> > > Capt. Lahti' > >> > > WHAT-T-T??!! You are going to let it go at THAT?? > > (You must be getting tired of this - too.) > > RJames Tired!? Hell I'm up to my eyeballs in trouble here in River City. I ain't got time! <G> Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:20:10 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters - ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:04 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters > > Has anyone considered that at least some of what have been identified as > > short starters are in fact ramrods for pistols? > > >> > > > > No. They are not. > > RJ > > Guess that pretty much settles that! <G> > > Capt. Lahti > > I ain't goin there ! > > Pendleton' A wise decision LP. Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:26:43 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: French bodice & other don'ts > To summarize Ingrid's article, the UFB isn't jumps (it isn't boned), and it > isn't a waistcoat (hasn't got the right styling), is often made in the > wrong fabric, and even if it *were* correct, it would be considered > underwear, and not worn in public. My Dear Angela, You must surely know that there are some things (see above) that we don't care if there is documentation for or not. If the ladies wish to wear them we will "over look it". <G> Your barking up the wrong tree! <G> Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:37:28 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: French bodice & other don'ts Angela, On a more serious note.............<G> If the examples of women's clothing articles are not documented, what is? I am at somewhat of a loss here being male and not discriminating in my viewing of what is and isn't OK with respect to the ladies. We have a few ladies who have appeared to of gone to the trouble of researching distaff clothing for certain era's and I for one have to rely on their findings. The examples you gave via website at JasTownsen seem to be in keeping with what Beth and others show appropriate for the Coastal States and previously Original Colonies. If that is not the case then what did the ladies of various classes wear? As to the 1800-1850 period you mention I would agree on the strength of my limited understanding of such matters that those two particular items of dress (or undress as you point out) may not be appropriate for the RMFT simply due to the lack of "westernized women" but what did the common lady back east wear? And if it be different then what should the modern female Rendezvous Lady wear? What, if her husband or escort dress's more colonial than RMFTrapper? > Any other nominations for this list of completely undocumented, but > frequently-seen, "don'ts"? Well, there certainly are many comforts that we bring to Rendezvous that undoubtedly never saw a Rocky Mountain Rendezvous in the property of the ordinary trapper/trader. Chairs, particularly the two piece slide together units that some enterprising soul came up with a few years back. Wooden and metal candle lanterns, since the trapper and probably the trader didn't bother to haul such a thing around. Wrought Iron Fire Sets and grills, aren't recorded and would not be practical for trapper or trader to bother with and surely were never sketched or painted by contemporary artists that I am aware of. Much of the common cast iron dutch ovens, though there probably were some cast iron long legged pots hauled by traders and at forts, they are not practical for the common man to use even in brigade strength. Now I may be wrong in all this but to my understanding these items have not been documented. And if I am wrong and someone wishes to refresh my memory with the documentation by all means have at it. <G> Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:05:03 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: salt barrels guys did you ever look at the medical side of salt---such as to gargle salt water for a sore throat---and i do rank salt as a pretty important thing in a shooting bag and if going out for a extended period feel it is real important---also if you get a bad cut salt will clean out the wound and even help the blood to clot---its more important than you realize in that time period---remember they didnt have disinfectants---besides it gives a bland wild salid some basic tasts and also in the summer months is and can be used like salt tablets--- believe you need to do some more thinking of the importance of a long hunter or a mountain man carrying salt---I bought a horn that was suposed to belong to d boon from the guy that owned the boon rifle many years ago I thought it was a priming horn for a long time until i pulled the plug and it wasnt black in it it was salt---so i guess all i can say is ???? must have been important to them--- Nuff said------ YMHOSANT =+= "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:50:20 -0700 From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Potts bag & gun. - --------------FD6D9483718A20BBE3C27F8C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis Earp wrote: > Buck, A couple of quick questions about the Potts rifle > and bag. Was the collector Jim Davis from > Claremore,Okla? Are there any pictures or descriptions of > the contents? Can you tell me where I can get a copyof > Mr. Pott's journal? Thanks,Dennis Earp > > Frank Davis is from Maine, he has a brother or cousin Jack Davis from Ohio that is also a collector of F&I War through the Rev War weapons of the highest quality, usually seen at the larger collector shows, their equipage is very pricey because of it's history (documented) and it's condition again usually premo. Many collectors have made a living off antiques being sold to help support a family member going to a nursing home, or the "jet set" wanting the money, not caring about the article's history or relation to their family, sad. The only journal information would be with the equipage that I am aware of, that's what helps hold the price on the gun and bag if it ever went up for auction, (probably a museum will own them someday). Buck - --------------FD6D9483718A20BBE3C27F8C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Dennis Earp wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style> Buck, A couple of quick questions about the Potts rifle and bag. Was the collector Jim Davis from Claremore,Okla? Are there any pictures or descriptions of the contents? Can you tell me where I can get a copyof Mr. Pott's journal? Thanks,Dennis Earp </blockquote> Frank Davis is from Maine, he has a brother or cousin Jack Davis from Ohio that is also a collector of F&I War through the Rev War weapons of the highest quality, usually seen at the larger collector shows, their equipage is very pricey because of it's history (documented) and it's condition again usually premo. Many collectors have made a living off antiques being sold to help support a family member going to a nursing home, or the "jet set" wanting the money, not caring about the article's history or relation to their family, sad. The only journal information would be with the equipage that I am aware of, that's what helps hold the price on the gun and bag if it ever went up for auction, (probably a museum will own them someday). Buck </body> </html> - --------------FD6D9483718A20BBE3C27F8C-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #725 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.