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hist_text-digest      Thursday, November 30 2000      Volume 01 : Number 683



In this issue:

-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Beer / Native Drinks
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Brain tanned substitute
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beer
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Beer / Native Drinks
-áááááá MtMan-List: Beer
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beer
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beer
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beer
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beer
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Brain tanned substitute
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Brain tanned substitute
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beer
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beer
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Re: Beer / Native Drinks
-áááááá MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Beer
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather
-áááááá MtMan-List: Smokes??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Smokes??
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Smokes??
-áááááá MtMan-List: Ojibway style snowshoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Smokes??

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:25:52 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Beer / Native Drinks

Ho the list !
       Its been a while since I last posted, but a message caught my
eye,it was askin bout Native American fermented beverages. I belive the
Mescalaro Apaches brewed a mildly
alcoholic drink from the plant for which they are named,also have heard
tell of fermented drink made by Eskimos and other far northern tribes,it
being a mixture of Reindeer milk and blood although that seems a bit odd
and improbable...anyone else have some toughts on the subject?
                            Y.M.O.S,
                             Michael Anthony Smith Esq.

"In Wildness Is the Preservation of the World"     Thoreau

http://community.webtv.net/SpiritoftheWood/THEBUCKSKINNERSCABIN


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:38:41 -0800
From: "Gary A. Bell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brain tanned substitute

Howdy Jin-o-ta-ka,

Buckskinning series is top notch.  Not perfect, but a great encyclopedic source
and an excellent starting place.  I find that their articles often miss the
historical accuracy several of the Historische Gestapo types would approve, but
not everybody in this game is that orthodox.  Follow the wisdom found on this
list for a much more historically correct approach.

> 1) Everybody talks about "brain tanned" deer hide. Is there a commercial
> tanning process that leaves the same colour and texture as brain tanning?
> I.e. what can I ask for at the commercial tannery (not retailer) that will
> pass for brain tanned? (There are lots of Whitetail out here - could clothe
> the whole camp with what wanders thru my yard in one winter - but the
> government takes a dim view of helping yourself. On the other hand, a lot of
> those hides taken by the hunters end up in a local tannery.)

I am considering hitting up the meat cutters that handle hunters' deer, elk and
such.  Of course they get the carcass without hide (hopefully!) but I hope to
make connection with the hunters and beg a little.....  You might even know some
hunters with a freezer full of hides -- I know of two among my shooting friends
here in Portland.  Plan A has me reviewing the archives of this list for some
easy recipes.  I do need to find an outdoorsy spot without sensitive neighbors
close downwind though.

> 2) In all the pictures I have seen, I don't see anybody wearing ear plugs or
> eye protection when shooting. Is this a "man-thing"? or is it just for the
> pictures? I can understand not protecting your eyes and ear when hunting
> but, on the range??
>
> Fireproof britches on about the "man-thing - comments appreciated !!

What's that?  Could you speak up there young lady?

I don't expect it is just for the pictures.  You probably got the "man-thing"
about right, surely that is at least partly going on.  I think it is also
inattention to the inconvenient safety equipment, plus a fashion component too.
I have to suspect that the relative minority of women who shoot also have some
similar bad habits, arguing against the "man-thing".

What really makes me cringe is seeing otherwise intelligent shooters blowing
down the barrel after a shot!  When I am range shooting I run a just damp spit
patch through the bore once before loading, which puts out sparks, tests for
unfired loads or debris in the barrel with a depth ring marked on my range rod,
greatly reduces fouling giving more consistant shots and easier loading after a
number of shots, and the air whistling through the nipple certifies a clear
ignition path.


Heron



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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 07:36:57 -0600
From: "Best, Dianne" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer

Heron asked "How about anyone with Native American fermented beverage
information?"

Now this is off the top of my head and hasn't been verified (yet) but....

Among my People, Maple sap was harvested and turned into sugar long before
the whiteman. I vaguely remember my Seneca Grandmother talking about a
fermented beverage from Maple syrup but I don't remember it having a name.

There is a high sugar content in Maple sap and it would ferment easily. I
don't know by what process it was made but I expect (within the cultural
context) what small amount that were produced would have been consumed "when
it is ready" and not stored. The Maple products were far too valuable to
"waste" on "silly water".

After the coming of Handsome Lake (circa 1820) I suspect that home-made
fermented beverages would have become rare. (Handsome Lake was on a
Temperance kick.)

Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)


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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:49:31 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Beer / Native Drinks

 [e-mail] writes:

> Eskimos and other far northern tribes,it being a mixture of Reindeer milk
and blood although that seems a bit odd and improbable>>


Since reindeer are an old world species and didn't occur in North America, I
think it is improbable. Although they do show up occasionally in late
December. Sorry just couldn't pass up the opportunity, I'm sure you meant
caribou. You are right though it does seem improbable and is probably another
of those frontier legends, but stranger things happened.

YMOS
Ghosting Wolf

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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:31:22 -0600
From: "Glenn Darilek" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Beer

Whoa! seems I have stirred a hornet's nest again.
I didn't mean to challenge anyones preconceived notions, but to at least
insist the beer we drink be porter (and certainly nothing with the letters
lite in the title.)
Actually, much of what we bring to rendezvous cannot meet the test of using
only what was common at the original rendezvous.  This includes most
everyone sleeping under canvas, everyone having a tomahawk, wooden boxes,
lanterns, beef, hen's eggs, and most other food, and the list goes on.

Glenn Darilek
Iron Burner

you wrote:
>I suppose now there will be a rash of Stewart re-enactors at rendezvous
>washing down their tinned sardines with porter ale, dining on a rubberized
>tarp and shooting game with a matched set of percussion English rifles.
>Waugh! I thought we left civilization East of the Mississippi!


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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:20:37 -0600
From: Virden High School <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer

was the beer in cans or bottles........................

Glenn Darilek wrote:

> Whoa! seems I have stirred a hornet's nest again.
> I didn't mean to challenge anyones preconceived notions, but to at least
> insist the beer we drink be porter (and certainly nothing with the letters
> lite in the title.)
> Actually, much of what we bring to rendezvous cannot meet the test of using
> only what was common at the original rendezvous.  This includes most
> everyone sleeping under canvas, everyone having a tomahawk, wooden boxes,
> lanterns, beef, hen's eggs, and most other food, and the list goes on.
>
> Glenn Darilek
> Iron Burner
>
> you wrote:
> >I suppose now there will be a rash of Stewart re-enactors at rendezvous
> >washing down their tinned sardines with porter ale, dining on a rubberized
> >tarp and shooting game with a matched set of percussion English rifles.
> >Waugh! I thought we left civilization East of the Mississippi!
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:30:50 -0800
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer

Diane,
    Fermented Maple syrup sounds very similar to mead (fremented honey)of
Norse lore.  I always figured those "Injuns" came from Viking stock!

    Larry Huber

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Best, Dianne <[e-mail]>
To: 'MountainMan Digest' <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer


> Heron asked "How about anyone with Native American fermented beverage
> information?"
>
> Now this is off the top of my head and hasn't been verified (yet) but....
>
> Among my People, Maple sap was harvested and turned into sugar long before
> the whiteman. I vaguely remember my Seneca Grandmother talking about a
> fermented beverage from Maple syrup but I don't remember it having a name.
>
> There is a high sugar content in Maple sap and it would ferment easily. I
> don't know by what process it was made but I expect (within the cultural
> context) what small amount that were produced would have been consumed
"when
> it is ready" and not stored. The Maple products were far too valuable to
> "waste" on "silly water".
>
> After the coming of Handsome Lake (circa 1820) I suspect that home-made
> fermented beverages would have become rare. (Handsome Lake was on a
> Temperance kick.)
>
> Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:18:39 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer

> Diane,
>     Fermented Maple syrup sounds very similar to mead (fremented honey)of
> Norse lore.  I always figured those "Injuns" came from Viking stock!
>

As a matter of fact, I just set 10 gallons of mead for our anniversary party
at the Alafia River Ronny in January.  Very easy to make... see the receipe
on my web site... www.geocities.com/Yosemite.Geyser/3216

Mead is the oldest known alcoholic beverage known to man, or so I have been
told... GOOD stuff!! Mine usually turns out about 18% alcohol...

Ad Miller
Alderson, WV


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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:41:14 -0800
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer

Right you are, Glenn,
    A mountain Man's blankets were under his horse's saddle and his "tent"
was the tarp holding the furs and plunder atop his mule.  I'm confident that
a trapper had a good "hawk" with a poll to set his chain sticks but he
didn't pack boxes or eat settler food.  I'm also sure he never tasted porter
at rendezvous neither.  Too little alcohol to make the packin' in worthwhile
to the traders.
    Public rendezvous are not meant to recreate history, just celebrate it.
It's a fun "dress-up" time for most of us and contemporary comforts from
foam moccasin liners to down sleeping bags under period blankets keep us
from sliding too far back into the past.  For those who demand more
"reality", museum reenactments at posts and forts or private outings with
strict guidelines are available.
    My posting wasn't meant to criticize.  I was just "makin' funny".

    Larry Huber

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Darilek <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:31 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Beer


> Whoa! seems I have stirred a hornet's nest again.
> I didn't mean to challenge anyones preconceived notions, but to at least
> insist the beer we drink be porter (and certainly nothing with the letters
> lite in the title.)
> Actually, much of what we bring to rendezvous cannot meet the test of
using
> only what was common at the original rendezvous.  This includes most
> everyone sleeping under canvas, everyone having a tomahawk, wooden boxes,
> lanterns, beef, hen's eggs, and most other food, and the list goes on.
>
> Glenn Darilek
> Iron Burner
>
> you wrote:
> >I suppose now there will be a rash of Stewart re-enactors at rendezvous
> >washing down their tinned sardines with porter ale, dining on a
rubberized
> >tarp and shooting game with a matched set of percussion English rifles.
> >Waugh! I thought we left civilization East of the Mississippi!
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:07:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brain tanned substitute

In a message dated 11/28/00 1:56:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< In all the pictures I have seen, I don't see anybody wearing ear plugs or
 eye protection when shooting. Is this a "man-thing"? or is it just for the
 pictures? I can understand not protecting your eyes and ear when hunting
 but, on the range??
  >>
Hi Diane,   I know that many of the pictures do not show it but little foam
ear plugs dissappear in the ear and protect your hearing which can not be
replaced, I know the machine gunner was on my left and I have a mild hearing
loss in that ear.  Our club requires eye and ear protection at all of our
shoots and so do most of the clubs around here.  And when we do reinactment
battles or parades or demos I always have a bag of spare clean (run them thru
the cloths washer) foam ear plugs to give out to those that do not have them.
 And I always have a lot of peope that take them and use them.

If you want a period correct look and eye protection several vendors sell
period correct glasses that can be fitted by Lense Crafters or you local
optomitrist with safety lenses.  My Jeffersonian folding frames have
prescription safety lenses and so do my 1800's oval frames.  Eyes and ears
are to hard to replace so use protection.

YHOS

C.T. Oakes

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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:03:48 -0800
From: "Frank V. Rago" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brain tanned substitute

I have run into the period correct eye wear problem at a few rendezvous.  I
do have period looking glasses that I wear when I shoot and the ear plugs
are hidden by the long hair.  But my problem comes when I flintknapp.  I
always wear the wrap around safety glasses when I knapp as glass shards fly
in all directions.  When I get hasseled about not wearing period correct
glasses I give them a choice, either I stop the knapping exhibition or you
let me protect my eyes the way I see fit.

It's 50/50, most let me knapp, other ask me to stop.  That's fine as then I
can sit and drink my coffee and shoot the bull around a fire.

Either way I'm a winner.

FVR

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brain tanned substitute


> In a message dated 11/28/00 1:56:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << In all the pictures I have seen, I don't see anybody wearing ear plugs
or
>  eye protection when shooting. Is this a "man-thing"? or is it just for
the
>  pictures? I can understand not protecting your eyes and ear when hunting
>  but, on the range??
>   >>
> Hi Diane,   I know that many of the pictures do not show it but little
foam
> ear plugs dissappear in the ear and protect your hearing which can not be
> replaced, I know the machine gunner was on my left and I have a mild
hearing
> loss in that ear.  Our club requires eye and ear protection at all of our
> shoots and so do most of the clubs around here.  And when we do
reinactment
> battles or parades or demos I always have a bag of spare clean (run them
thru
> the cloths washer) foam ear plugs to give out to those that do not have
them.
>  And I always have a lot of peope that take them and use them.
>
> If you want a period correct look and eye protection several vendors sell
> period correct glasses that can be fitted by Lense Crafters or you local
> optomitrist with safety lenses.  My Jeffersonian folding frames have
> prescription safety lenses and so do my 1800's oval frames.  Eyes and ears
> are to hard to replace so use protection.
>
> YHOS
>
> C.T. Oakes
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:05:52 -0800
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer

I have read the replies to this thread with interest, from the standpoint of my
ongoing research and the standpoint of an amateur brewer.

A couple of things worth pointing out...

1.  On the Reindeer brew... I believe (as has been pointed out) that's an
old-world Laplander thing, particularly since they are the folks who
traditionally herd those animals.  Hard to milk a running Caribou.

2.  If the American Indians (of the North) had a native alcoholic brew before,
or during the height of the furtrade, I think they would have been more
prepared for the furtrader's rum/whiskey/everclear.... if you read about the
first contacts made in the Canada's, where rum(?) was supplied liberally to
part the good folks of the Lakes with their furs, they speak of the Indians
drinking to experience visions, which normally took 'em a couple of three days
of staying awake and fasting to experiance (i.e. sleep deprived
hallucinations).  In my humble opinion, if any kind of native alcoholic drink
was already present, the tribes would have already been aware of this
phenomenon.  The records indicate they were totally overwhelmed by the traders
"generosity".

Regards

Lee Newbill of North Idaho




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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:45:09 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer

Gentelmen,
As I remember, the fur trade as operated by Astor was a fort/trading post
afair, where natives and white trappers would bring furs and trade for
whiskey and re-supply, then there were forts built by Hudson Bay,North West
Co., and finnaly in 1825 you get the Rendezvous system as started by Ashley.
Now having said that, the west was not as sparsley populated by places to
get whiskey or any such other goods as we would like to think. I think that
we have a lot of "Back Packer" mentality when we should be thinking Truck
Driver.
I spent 6 months in the Alaskan bush and the first thing I figured out was
how to improve my creature comforts and how and where to get more, I am sure
trapers of old did the same.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer
>Date: Wed, Nov 29, 2000, 11:41 AM
>

>Right you are, Glenn,
>    A mountain Man's blankets were under his horse's saddle and his "tent"
>was the tarp holding the furs and plunder atop his mule.  I'm confident that
>a trapper had a good "hawk" with a poll to set his chain sticks but he
>didn't pack boxes or eat settler food.  I'm also sure he never tasted porter
>at rendezvous neither.  Too little alcohol to make the packin' in worthwhile
>to the traders.
>    Public rendezvous are not meant to recreate history, just celebrate it.
>It's a fun "dress-up" time for most of us and contemporary comforts from
>foam moccasin liners to down sleeping bags under period blankets keep us
>from sliding too far back into the past.  For those who demand more
>"reality", museum reenactments at posts and forts or private outings with
>strict guidelines are available.
>    My posting wasn't meant to criticize.  I was just "makin' funny".
>
>    Larry Huber
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Glenn Darilek <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:31 AM
>Subject: MtMan-List: Beer
>
>
>> Whoa! seems I have stirred a hornet's nest again.
>> I didn't mean to challenge anyones preconceived notions, but to at least
>> insist the beer we drink be porter (and certainly nothing with the letters
>> lite in the title.)
>> Actually, much of what we bring to rendezvous cannot meet the test of
>using
>> only what was common at the original rendezvous.  This includes most
>> everyone sleeping under canvas, everyone having a tomahawk, wooden boxes,
>> lanterns, beef, hen's eggs, and most other food, and the list goes on.
>>
>> Glenn Darilek
>> Iron Burner
>>
>> you wrote:
>> >I suppose now there will be a rash of Stewart re-enactors at rendezvous
>> >washing down their tinned sardines with porter ale, dining on a
>rubberized
>> >tarp and shooting game with a matched set of percussion English rifles.
>> >Waugh! I thought we left civilization East of the Mississippi!
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:37:48 -0600
From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Beer / Native Drinks

Horse milk & blood was a common Mongol drink, called kumis or khavass =
depending on tribe.   Other nomadic peoples have made similar drinks, =
including the bedouins of northern Africa.   Sounds nasty as all get out =
to me, but then again, I'm a spoiled product o' my times, and like my =
single malt scotch.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of =
[e-mail]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:50 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Beer / Native Drinks
>=20
>=20
>  [e-mail] writes:
>=20
> > Eskimos and other far northern tribes,it being a mixture of=20
> Reindeer milk=20
> and blood although that seems a bit odd and improbable>>
>=20
>=20
> Since reindeer are an old world species and didn't occur in North=20
> America, I=20
> think it is improbable. Although they do show up occasionally in late=20
> December. Sorry just couldn't pass up the opportunity, I'm sure you =
meant=20
> caribou. You are right though it does seem improbable and is=20
> probably another=20
> of those frontier legends, but stranger things happened.
>=20
> YMOS
> Ghosting Wolf
>=20
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>=20


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:27:30 -0800
From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C05A53.8FA95AC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Iam asking this for a friend of mine.  does anybody out there know of =
anything other than brains that can be used as a substitute for brain =
tanning hides? I have heard of lard, or naptha soap.   if I've heard =
right, how are they used?
thanks Tom

- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C05A53.8FA95AC0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Iam asking this for a friend of =
mine.  does=20
anybody out there know of anything other than brains that can be used as =
a=20
substitute for brain tanning hides? I have heard of lard, or naptha =

soap.   if I've heard right, how are they used?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks Tom</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C05A53.8FA95AC0--


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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:48:44 -0800
From: Randal J Bublitz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather

Tom, I've heard that eggs can be used.  I'm allergic to eggs, even
touching them, so I never paid it much attention.  From what I know it
produces the same leather as brain tan.   Sorry , i have no details, but
this may be a lead to follow.   hardtack

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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 01:02:30 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beer

In a message dated 11/29/0 03:48:02 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<natives and white trappers would bring furs and trade for
whiskey and re-supply, >>

There seems to be a forgone conclusion in the minds and hearts of some that
whiskey was a basic need for survival.  Not necessarily so.  Then - like now
- - some were adicted to it and some were not.  Some Indians demanded it and
some tribal leaders forbade it.  Some died because of it including one
red-head who hair was doused with it at Rendezvous and then ignited.
Ironically he was nearly beaten to death by well meaning associates trying to
beat out the flames.
R. James

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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:05:11 -0800
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather

Thomas Ballstaedt wrote:

> Iam asking this for a friend of mine.  does anybody out there know of
> anything other than brains that can be used as a substitute for brain
> tanning hides? I have heard of lard, or naptha soap.  if I've heard
> right, how are they used?

Thomas

I do not profess to be an expert at braintanning, have tried my hand at
it, and am working on several hides as part of the AMM pilgrimage....
take a look at the following website

http://www.braintan.com/toc.html

I am using their book, "Deerskins into Buckskins" to help.  They speak
of soap tanned, vegtable tanned, egg tanned, and of course, brain
tanned.

Regards from Idaho

Lee Newbill


>


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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 01:14:32 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather

Tom - If you can get one of the old Handicraft books by Lester Griswold, it
mentions a number of things including wheat flour and soap.  Eggs are another
alternative.  Salt and alum are well known but this is called "tawing" rather
than tanning.  Sulphuric (battery) acid - greatly diluted - is another
material and Jim (Dr. James - "Mt. Man Sketchbooks") Hansen showed me some
Sioux buckskin about 30 years ago that was tanned with detergent.  If you
don't get what you need from your e-mail, write me back and I will look up
the details on these many variations.  I do have pieces of a hide I "tawed"
in California in 1948 that is still in great shape.
Richard C. James

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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 07:34:58 -0600
From: "Best, Dianne" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Smokes??

Another question from the recent arrival....

I have heard that smoking "tobacco wrapped in white paper" is not allowed at
Rendezvous. As one who makes way too many tobacco offerings every day with
roll-your-owns, I assume that I will be relegated to a clay pipe during
gatherings?

Take my word for it, this old Granny without her smoke would be one wild
Indian. Something like that could lead to another Indian uprising! From my
past experience in trying to quit, I have come to the conclusion that
Custer's troop overtook Sitting Bull's people on Sitting Bull's first day of
trying to quit!

Comments??



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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:36:51 -0500
From: "Colleen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smokes??

> Comments??

I smoke a clay pipe or the occasional cigar, which I prefer!

Colleen

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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:47:28 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smokes??

Dianne,
I quit 25 years ago and it was tough, I figured that I had to un learn the
same way I started. If you want to know how contact me off list.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: "Best, Dianne" <[e-mail]>
>To: "'MountainMan Digest'" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: MtMan-List: Smokes??
>Date: Thu, Nov 30, 2000, 6:34 AM
>

>Another question from the recent arrival....
>
>I have heard that smoking "tobacco wrapped in white paper" is not allowed at
>Rendezvous. As one who makes way too many tobacco offerings every day with
>roll-your-owns, I assume that I will be relegated to a clay pipe during
>gatherings?
>
>Take my word for it, this old Granny without her smoke would be one wild
>Indian. Something like that could lead to another Indian uprising! From my
>past experience in trying to quit, I have come to the conclusion that
>Custer's troop overtook Sitting Bull's people on Sitting Bull's first day of
>trying to quit!
>
>Comments??
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:15:45 -0600
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Ojibway style snowshoes

I'm looking for some Ojibway style snowshoes, with rawhide lacing.
Anyone out there no of a good place with a good price?

So far the best I've found is at Andriondac Outdoors for $84.95 without
bindings.  These are 12x60.

Thanks,

Jim

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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:31:06 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alternatives for brain tanning leather

[e-mail] writes:

> Iam asking this for a friend of mine.  does anybody out there know of
> anything other than brains that can be used as a substitute for brain
tanning
> hides?>>

A Turtle Mountain Chippewa told me he learned to use 50% fabric softner and
50% water in an old washing machine to make a braintan substitute. He said he
learned this when visiting with the Assiniboine. He does the usual de-hairing
(using hydrated lime and water) and scraping to rough up the hide. He uses a
rotary sander to remove membrane and excess tissue on a dry stretched hide.
Then he uses the fabric softner and water. He used to soak it for several
days, stirring several times a day. With the washer he agitates it several
times a day and it doesn't take as long and it penetrates better. Restretchs
the hide and works out any hard spots. When it's where he wants it he smokes
it. He says it looks, feels, acts and smells like braintan.  He said you
can't tell the difference. Piece of leather he showed me was
indistinguishable from braintan in every respect. I'm waiting for better
weather, more time and an old ringer washer to try this out.

YMOS
Ghosting Wolf

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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 07:32:49 -0800
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smokes??

The preferred method of smoking during our period was with a pipe.  Clay,
mostly, but the tribes used stone carved bowls.  The red Pipestone from
Western Minnesota was the most abundant.  The quarries are still being mined
today.  Besides the long stemmed "peace pipe" used during gatherings,
smaller stemmed personal pipes were used.
Having said that, Indians and Europeans in Spanish held territory smoked a
"cigarette" wrapped in corn husk and cigars were not uncommon.  Pick
something to the character you represent, become accustomed to it and your
vice can still be accommodated.

    Larry Huber

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ole B. Jensen <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smokes??


> Dianne,
> I quit 25 years ago and it was tough, I figured that I had to un learn the
> same way I started. If you want to know how contact me off list.
> YMOS
> Ole # 718
> ----------
> >From: "Best, Dianne" <[e-mail]>
> >To: "'MountainMan Digest'" <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: MtMan-List: Smokes??
> >Date: Thu, Nov 30, 2000, 6:34 AM
> >
>
> >Another question from the recent arrival....
> >
> >I have heard that smoking "tobacco wrapped in white paper" is not allowed
at
> >Rendezvous. As one who makes way too many tobacco offerings every day
with
> >roll-your-owns, I assume that I will be relegated to a clay pipe during
> >gatherings?
> >
> >Take my word for it, this old Granny without her smoke would be one wild
> >Indian. Something like that could lead to another Indian uprising! From
my
> >past experience in trying to quit, I have come to the conclusion that
> >Custer's troop overtook Sitting Bull's people on Sitting Bull's first day
of
> >trying to quit!
> >
> >Comments??
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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