Subject: Re: MtMan-List: For a change of pace, Happy Thanksgiving;
Another interesting Lewis & Clark Book- (Back to that question of a week
ago)- "Lewis and Clark among the Indians" by James P Ronda......ISBN
0-8032-8929-4 A day late, and a dollar short, I know...but
Buck's posting reminded me. Happy Thanksgiving to all. We'll be
celebrating with a buffalo roast.... can hardly wait. hardtack
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:14:56 EST
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs
If I may run the risk of sounding like a greenhorn...I would like to
interject a thought. The dog would not be a life-risk in Crow country.
Wasn;'t it the Crow who prided themselves on never having killed a white man?
They would, however, steal him blind of horses, plunder and anything else.
Wouldn't a dog be a boon to give you "early warning" of any Crow or other
"boogers" sneaking up around your camp? Can't say the same thing if it were
Blackfeet country, however!!!!
- -C.Kent
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:09:52 -0600
From: "Best, Dianne" <dbest@hydro.mb.ca>
Subject: MtMan-List: RE: To Diane on the trail of the wild Megwich. . . .
Richard wrote "Diane - you take me too seriously but thank you for the
seriously gracious
explanation of the word."
Golly, I never even felt that leg getting longer......
Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:31:01 -0600
From: "Best, Dianne" <dbest@hydro.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs
Well, I have heard all the anti-dog sentiments and I agree with every one of
them! A well behaved and loyal dog is an ally and a companion ...... a
poorly behaved or unreliable dog is SUPPER!
On the other side of the time warp (Y2K), I live in an areas inhabited by
deer, bear, timber wolves, foxes, coyotes, and cougar (all seen within 2
miles of me within the past two years) - keep hoping to see a moose in the
yard - I LOVE moose (cooked) - and I live with a young hound who has a nose
like no other, eyesight and hearing better than my 51-year-old carcass can
manage. Even though my hound lives in the house with me, she is almost
always aware of any unexpected goings-on before I am and gives me the
heads-up. Sometimes she tips me off to activities that I can't even verify
until daylight the next day. She also tells me whether the activity is small
animal, large animal, dangerous animal, or human by the way she reacts and
what she does about it.
In all the oral history I have heard and much of what I have read, I don't
know if there was ever a Native community without dogs. Their "early warning
system" was much valued to protect the village from surprise attack (just
try sneaking up on a pack of dogs and silencing them all at once!). I know
that dogs were a part of Iroquois life (there's a ceremony around the
sacrifice of a white dog) and that on the prairies they were THE pack animal
before the horse. The dogs packed everything from personal goods to tipi
poles.
Thanks all, it has been an interesting chin-wag.
Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:47:00 -0600
From: "Best, Dianne" <dbest@hydro.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi
Sorry fellas, I think Linda is on the right track here (from what little I
know).
You're living on the bald-a## prairie, following the herds of Buffalo to
feed your family, trying to stay away from your enemies, and always "taking
to ground" in some sheltered spot for the winter. Your original form of
transporting your goods from place to place was dogs. Later, if you were
lucky, you had a horse or two.
The factor that limited how much stuff you could have was WEIGHT. You could
have no more household goods than what you could pack on the backs of the
family and whatever critters you had - and everything had to be quickly
packed and quick on the trail.
A cloth tipi (for the majority of the year) would be to die for - light,
small when folded, durable (dries fast, not inclined to rot, if dry). You
could either travel a lot lighter or carry a larger home for the same
weight. Come winter, there were so many ways of improving the "insulation"
that I am not sure the cover is a significant factor anymore. Evergreen
boughs laid against the outside, grass stuffed behind the liner, a good
sheltered location, a windbreak, etc. In 20th Century terms, I don't think
there is a lot of difference between the R value of a tanned hide and a
layer of heavy cloth.
Were it me chasing Buffalo thru the prairie grass, I'd be travelling in a
cloth covered tipi and have my hide cover stashed at my wintering place.
That's all for now.....
Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:01:00 -0600
From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@centurytel.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: dogs
Linda Holley wrote,
<would love to see a little Yorkie take down a cow>
First, Linda, I find it very sick that you would "love" to see a dog
maim or kill a cow.
One the incidents in which I lost cattle involved a medium sized dog
that attacked a cow and calf while in the birth process. The calf was
halfway out and the dog started chewing on its face. The terrified cow began
running with the hapless calf hanging out. I arrived only to see the cow
running, calf hanging out and the dog hanging onto the still alive but
mortally wounded calf.
It was days before I could corral the cow with the calf still not
delivered but dead inside the mother who was now seriously infected. I lost
a valuable purebred registered cow and a calf with potential as a champion
bull. Aside from the senseless loss of the animals and their suffering, it
cost me thousands of dollars.
I have treated sick and wounded animals and people but have never seen a
sight so disgusting before in my life as that cow running with her half-born
calf hanging out and the dog trying to eat the calf on the run.
I bet you would have "loved" to be there to see that.
I eventually shot the dog and would have done unspeakable things to the
owner if the law allowed.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 06:31:20 -0800
From: "Jay Geisinger" <poorboy@ieway.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Happy Thanksgiving
Klahowya My Friends,
I Hope this writing finds everyone in good spirits and health. May the
Great Spirit bless each and every one and may we all be Thankful for said
blessings. Happy Thanksgiving my friends.
YMOS
PoorBoy
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:20:27 -0600
From: trapper@cillnet.com (Brad Everett)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs
Yer close , but the way I heard it was they said they had never taken a
white mans SCALP! Big differance to the Indian's way of thinking.
Trapper,
Trek'n through time, backwards!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <HikingOnThru@cs.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs
> If I may run the risk of sounding like a greenhorn...I would like to
> interject a thought. The dog would not be a life-risk in Crow country.
> Wasn;'t it the Crow who prided themselves on never having killed a white
man?
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:33:36 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Thanksgiving
From my home to yours... may all of you have a safe and happy Thanksgiving.
Let us pause here a moment to give thanks to those who came before us... who
opened up this wonderful land... and to those who sacraficed their all so
that we may live as we do today. On this day, and always... may the Spirit
of the Wolf watch over you all and guide your steps....
Ad Miller
Alderson, WV
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:42:38 EST
From: TrapRJoe@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: dogs
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Buzzards do the same thing, and when one was shot picking the eyes out of a
calf in birth, the shooter was arrested. Buzzards are protected. Lions,
wolfes, hawks, owls, can be shot when destroying livestock, but I guest not
buzzards. He was arrested and win or lose it cost money to defend. I have
trapped many a dog that was destroying cattle, but never one as small as a
yorkie. If we can't laugh we might as well give up.
TrapRJoe
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<HTML><FONT SIZE=2> Buzzards do the same thing, and when one was shot picking the eyes out of a <BR>calf in birth, the shooter was arrested. Buzzards are protected. Lions, <BR>wolfes, hawks, owls, can be shot when destroying livestock, but I guest not <BR>buzzards. He was arrested and win or lose it cost money to defend. I have <BR>trapped many a dog that was destroying cattle, but never one as small as a <BR>yorkie. If we can't laugh we might as well give up.
<BR> TrapRJoe</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:33:18 EST
From: Elkflea@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs
Am just curious if the Crows are still a-thieven ur horses n plunder? flea
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 11:43:34 EST
From: Elkflea@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: dogs
Last year, I came home from work to find that some stray dog had ripped the
utters off my favorite goat. The size of the dog isn't so much the question
here as a chihuahua or two could have inflicted the same death upon her as
could have a larger hound. The trouble is the instinctive nature of dogs
and particularly when they pack up in groups. In my county signs are
numerous signs are posted along roadways informing dog owners that their
hounds may be shot on site if disturbing livestock, ie open season.
Feral cats are my pet peave, however, due to the great numbers of wild
baby ducks, quail, pheasants and other small critters they kill for 'sport'
. I've lost many dozens of young free range run baby chicks to these
buggers. In all they seem to be pretty poor at rodent control. I know there
are a few good 'ratters' out there but they seem to be rare.
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:22:32 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi
In a message dated 11/23/0 06:48:06 AM, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes:
<<A cloth tipi (for the majority of the year) would be to die for - light,
small when folded, durable (dries fast, not inclined to rot, if dry). You
could either travel a lot lighter or carry a larger home for the same
weight. Come winter, there were so many ways of improving the "insulation"
that I am not sure the cover is a significant factor anymore.>>
It surprises me that with all the dialogue about fabric/hide tipis, no one
makes reference to the books by my friends, the Laubins (gone under - but
still my friends) They cite fabric as not only being lighter and less bulky
(same weight - more living space) but of greater duration, since hide tipis
lasted only a year and fabric about 5 years and MUCH less labor going into
them. They also talk about insulation. So far as heating, tipi heating is
radiant. I have found that in the coldest weather a small twig fire is not
only cheery but the heat bounces off the liner and back into the lodge
proper. I recently spent some in-depth research with priviledged Shoshone
material and learned that they built brush windbreaks in a circle around
their lodges. Many of what they called tipis were not the hide nor the
fabric variety but were wheat-grass mats laid tipi-fashion over the typical
lodge pole cone. Probably these would more correctly be called wikki-ups.
These were mixed in some camps with both hide and fabric lodges. Not my
choice, but it is true history.
Richard James
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:31:58 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs
In a message dated 11/23/0 08:34:11 AM, Elkflea@aol.com writes:
<<Am just curious if the Crows are still a-thieven ur horses n plunder? flea
>>
I havn't met that many down here as this is Shoshone country, but of the ones
I have known I couldn't hope to know nicer people. In some ways they may
seen irresponsible by OUR standards, but they have their own values and rate
as high on the honor scale and happiness achieved scale as anyone
R. James
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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:49:23 -0800
From: "atthesea" <atthesea@gte.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Era Clothing
Happy Thanksgiving the List:
Wondering if any of you can recommend a site to search to purchase some
appropriate clothing for some mountain man apparel?
Thanks,
Ghostrider in rainy and cool Coos Bay, Oregon
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<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><I> </I>I like that term Army Sign Language. Maybe it could be called ASL for <BR>short. I am not sure if that term has been used before.
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<BR>From: "Gary A. Bell" <microptics@earthlink.net>
