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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #659 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, October 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 659 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak -áááááá MtMan-List: cheap linen thread -áááááá MtMan-List: MtMan list: sources of natural blue dye -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bossloper experiences -áááááá MtMan-List: AMM Requirements, Poison River -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak -áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: cheap linen thread -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak -áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Cooking buffalo steak -áááááá MtMan-List: Peregrinate -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: cheap linen thread -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: cheap linen thread -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau/1676 -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Peregrinate -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements, Poison River -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau -áááááá Re: Re: MtMan-List: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau/1676 -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements, Poison River -áááááá MtMan-List: Knife query redux -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Knife query redux ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:49:38 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak Kanger, You ever cook buffler? More'n that...yo mama ever teach you any manners at all. IF you ever spent much time in the foothills around where I live you might know that most folks talk like I typed...DO NOT make the error of assuming folks are not as highly educated as you. (Some of us have post-graduate degrees and make out living teaching such individuals as yourself to get long well with them that are forced to live 'round them...or at least act so that everyone you meet don't neccesarily want to "tickle yore hump ribs".) In short, D. Kanger...if you cannot offer any good advice...pass the posting on up. Secondly, meat is not meat. I see your apparent knowledge in cooking parallels that of your "e-etiquette"! Otherwise, may the Great Maker keep watch over you and your'n. I remain yours humbly, - -C. Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:12:42 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: MtMan-List: cheap linen thread Ho the list Some time ago there was a discussion about linen thread and about the = only thing that was agreed was that the stuff is extremely = pricy.........$75.00 for a pound spool in some cases. If you want to = beat that price click on cheaperthandirt.com and look for the "search by = catalog number" box then enter LEG-115. You will find for sale a large = spool (about 1 pound) of what they call linen thread for less than $6 = plus shipping. I bought a spool at the CTD store in FtWorth today and = by golly it looks like linen thread. The package says "spool of natural = twine" and I presume it is of foreign manufacture. It consists of 6 = twisted threads each about the size of ordinary sewing thread, making a = substantial thread (about the size of .5mm pencil lead) suitable for = nearly anything. It is a natural light tan color and is too strong for = me to break with my bare hands. It burns without smoke and leaves only = a wispy little ash.....no drips, etc. I bet it's linen, but they say = that their supplies are limited. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:46:36 EDT From: Elkflea@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: MtMan list: sources of natural blue dye Indigo was the most common source of blue dye throughout the 18th and 19th century. Other dyestuffs were also utilized such as: Prussian blue, woad, and chemic. Woad was utilized in Europe before the Dutch imported the East Indian Indigo during the later part of the 16th century. According to the Smithsonian, woad (isatis tinctoria) was more than likely the first blue dye used in America, but then indigo became more common after 1700. Both required fermentation and both contained the ingrediant indigotin. Some amount of Woad, for dying, was grown on the eastern seaboard around Ct. but most was imported from Holland and France. Chemic is also known as Saxon Blue or Indigo sulfate it was a concoction of indigo powder being treated with sulferic acid but it had a short lifespan and would consequently fade more readily than regular indigo or woad. Its application was easier than the other two and I guess the simplicity is the reason for its utility. Prussian blue was another one of the earliest chemical dyes used in America. It was made by combining prussiate of potash with iron salt. The salt in this case acts like the mordant and the other the dye. Though not a professional, I have recipes for different color dyes if anybody is interested. The Best of Luck to Ya......flea - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:21:52 -0400 From: tom roberts <troberts@gdi.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bossloper experiences Just a few thoughts to add, First of all, my experience has been that this effort is very costly. Not so much in dollars, but in time. Making the time to search the wealth of information that is available, making the time to try a task in the way it would have been done by someone back then, making the time to get outside and live without the modern trappings, making the time (and risk?) to try something that may not turn out well the first go round, and taking the time to learn from other brothers, as everyone, from pilgrim to greybeard, has something to share. In a few years I have come a very long ways and I am just at the beginning of a long trail without an end point. Yes, I have spent my share of money on something, only to learn later that it wasn't exactly correct. I submit that many others will likely admit the same. I have attended any number of doin's where there is something chronologically (if not blatantly) incorrect but rather than being disturbed I just try to learn from the experience. Every time I cut a corner (yes there have been some), I lose out. Through these efforts and mistakes, I do not recall ever being judged, only kindly educated. Is all this worth it? Many would conclude that it is not. For a few, there is no doubt that it is worth every minute (or dollar) spent. This is one of those things where wealth cannot guarantee success and ultimately you are only measured by your own expectations. National events are great, but they are not the real destination. Tom S Jones wrote: > I wonder about propective members' experiences > and costs in attaining full membership in the AMM > Society. I've met two buckskinners who says they > shied away because, in their cases, traveling > expenses were family budget busters. If they HAD > the money to spare, they would dedicate > themselves to attaining full membership. Are they > just blowing smoke up their cuzunkuses? Can > traveling expenses be the biggest item next to > gathering authentic and authenicated gear? Other > wannabes do cite the costs, monetary and physical > (labor intensive), as just a little too much. I'm > not set for life and neither am I beholden to > anyone nowadays but my biggest obstacle remains > participation in juried camps and rendezvous of > which traveling is the biggest expenses in time > and/or money. > > Would appreciate any insights or feedback > (bitching acceptable) from the AMM members. > Thanks. Turns out I know three AMM members in > Kansas and did not realize it. > > ===== > deafstones > As I was walking up the stair > I met a man who wasn't there. > He wasn't there again today. > I wish, I wish he'd stay away. > Hughes Mearns > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:31:06 -0400 (EDT) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements, Poison River The AMM site lists 15 reqs. If I'm understanding this correctly (per Capt.L), to earn Bossloper (full membership) one must complete 10 reqs. in 1-2 years. To earn Hiveranno, one must complete 10 more reqs. (20 total) after being Bossloper for 3 years. Basic question is: what are the additional 5 AMM reqs. not listed on the web site? On another topic: Where exactly is Poison River located? Is (or was originally) the water really that horrible and bad tasting? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:41:24 -0500 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak Lighten up Superman. You haven't got a clue about gentlemen and manners. I've lived all over this country including the deep South, no area speaks as rudely as you do to this list. Nobody, particularly somebody who is obviously green as grass, calls me a coon without angering me deeper than you can imagine. When you use such an inflammatory term considered derogatory in so many quarters it becomes obvious you don't know shit about teaching people to get along. You are probably tenured at some fine university. When you don't know people its foolish to try and sound like an "old hand" when you haven't a clue what those people are about. Sociologist perhaps? I thought Dave spoke rather gently to you. You should see the stuff I wrote that I deleted on your previous use of the term; giving you the benefit of the doubt. I shan't make that mistake again. Do not speak as though you rule this list. You are very new here. I am being very gentle with you. Yes I've cooked bison and lots of other critters. If you've got meat, and you've got fire, you've got food. When you have minimal gear you have minimal spices and "fixin's", you have limited options in preparation. If you do anything else you're exactly wrong. Most of us never let our schooling interfere with our education. John... At 09:49 PM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >Kanger, > >You ever cook buffler? >More'n that...yo mama ever teach you any manners at all. IF you ever spent >much time in the foothills around where I live you might know that most folks >talk like I typed...DO NOT make the error of assuming folks are not as highly >educated as you. (Some of us have post-graduate degrees and make out living >teaching such individuals as yourself to get long well with them that are >forced to live 'round them...or at least act so that everyone you meet don't >neccesarily want to "tickle yore hump ribs".) In short, D. Kanger...if you >cannot offer any good advice...pass the posting on up. > >Secondly, meat is not meat. I see your apparent knowledge in cooking >parallels that of your "e-etiquette"! > >Otherwise, may the Great Maker keep watch over you and your'n. > >I remain yours humbly, > >-C. Kent > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." Napoleon Bonaparte. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:07:27 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak > Nobody, particularly somebody who is obviously green as grass, calls me a > coon without angering me deeper than you can imagine. > When you use such an inflammatory term considered derogatory in so many > quarters it becomes obvious you don't know shit about teaching people to > get along. John, Thanks........your eloquence saves my carefully worded reply from being sent. Actually, I am beginning to see the humor in it. Received a reply offlist from another member: "Did you ever rattle a monkey's cage and have him throw monkey crap at you..." Hilarious, ain't it. It made my day. <G> This sure did turn in to a circus. > I thought Dave spoke rather gently to you. Never thought speaking the truth was in bad manners, especially when said in so few words. I guess I should have ignored him like everyone else. What does your Webster's say about the origins of the word "shun." Dave - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:11:05 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak Right on, Brother Kramer I have deleted everything that the Kryponite Kid has posted since he = came up with his "in you face" pysudonym when he was advised that few = people would respond to posts without a signature. In fact there is a = short list of others on this list whose posts I treat with the same = consideration. You could probably guess who they are. I have eaten bison meat broiled nearly black, grilled bloody rare, = boiled tender and entirely raw..... the folds (or leaves) in one of the = stomachs, eaten while I stood on the bank of the Big Hole River in = Montana within 20 feet of the steaming carcass of the buff (as well as = raw liver too, but I don't recommend that....tastes like a really chewy = bloodclot). What you said is true.....meat is meat.....if your head is = wired right you will take it as you get it. YF&B Lanney - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:13:21 EDT From: Ssturtle1199@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak Hiking Kent: I could be wrong, but I have the feeling you are trying to impress. Many a man has failed to be accepted by this bunch of heatherns for making the same transgressions. Most of these men have been there, done that. Supper been a robin breast cooked in a tin cup or a bunch of grubs just to appease a growling belly. If you want to be accepted, just BE YOURSELF. Nothing less is good enough. There floats my stick. till trails cross Turtle #1199 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:30:21 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak What > does your Webster's say about the origins of the word "shun." > > Dave Dave, I think my teacher would say that "shun" is a slightly stronger level of "measured indifference". <G> Capt. L - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:31:31 -0700 From: "atthesea" <atthesea@gte.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau Hello the list: Last summer in the local Coos Bay, Oregon, newspaper, there was an article regarding the grave of JBC. His grave is reportedly near Jordan Valley, Oregon, near the Idaho line in SE Oregon. As I recall the story, JBC was dumped (fell) into Owyhee River (west of Jordan Valley), caught a chill and died in Jordan Valley and is buried near the site. The state was going to fix up the area due the the L & C thing soon upcoming. There was other info in the article on his mom, where/when she died, where buried. Can't recall the details or the sources of the informaiton other than when the article came out, I did some map work to locate where Jordan Valley was. Just 'nuther bit to chew on. Beats Buffalo Steak... Regards from foggy Coos Bay Ghostrider - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:34:45 -0700 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <tphsb@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cheap linen thread I bought some of that thread. it is linen, very high quality to, I've been using it for months. damn good stuff Lanney YMOS, Tom - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net> To: "AMM" <ammlist@lists.xmission.com> Cc: "History List" <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 7:12 PM Subject: MtMan-List: cheap linen thread > > Ho the list > Some time ago there was a discussion about linen thread and about the only thing that was agreed was that the stuff is extremely pricy.........$75.00 for a pound spool in some cases. If you want to beat that price click on cheaperthandirt.com and look for the "search by catalog number" box then enter LEG-115. You will find for sale a large spool (about 1 pound) of what they call linen thread for less than $6 plus shipping. I bought a spool at the CTD store in FtWorth today and by golly it looks like linen thread. The package says "spool of natural twine" and I presume it is of foreign manufacture. It consists of 6 twisted threads each about the size of ordinary sewing thread, making a substantial thread (about the size of .5mm pencil lead) suitable for nearly anything. It is a natural light tan color and is too strong for me to break with my bare hands. It burns without smoke and leaves only a wispy little ash.....no drips, etc. I bet it's linen, but they say that their supplies are limited. > YMOS > Lanney Ratcliff > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:48:23 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cooking buffalo steak > I think my teacher would say that "shun" is a slightly stronger level of > "measured indifference". <G> Rog, The former was the intent of my first posting. I should have resorted to the latter. You guys and your semantics. I used circus instead of zoo, cause Harddog would have jumped in and corrected me. Then Dennis would have chimed in and we would have ended up with a real conflagration causing us all to peregrinate for the hills. Dave - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:05:16 -0500 From: "harddog" <harddog@mediaone.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Cooking buffalo steak Well Dave, there is a difference between using zoo to describe certain balckpowder events and using the word circus. A zoo is a place full of animals, while a circus has both animals and guys in funny outfits. Harddog - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:08:56 -0500 From: "harddog" <harddog@mediaone.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Peregrinate Peregrinate? I kind of like that word. Like learning the word of the day. I'm going to have fun trying to find opportunities to use it. Probably when I find the opportunity I will not remember how to spell the damn word. Harddog - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:13:44 -0700 From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cheap linen thread Lanney, Funny, I received a catalog form this outfit today! On your recommendation I ordered 3 rolls, I plan to live a looong time. Thanks for the tip. hardtack - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:20:57 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cheap linen thread > Lanney, Funny, I received a catalog form this outfit today! > On your recommendation I ordered 3 rolls, I plan to live a looong time. I just checked their website. They have 360 rolls on hand. Be interesting to watch and see how the market is for linen thread these days. Maybe you can coax a commission out of them for unloading all their slow movers on all us slow movers. <G> Dave - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:33:47 EDT From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau/1676 In a message dated 10/22/00 9:00:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Wfoster@cw2.com writes: > Hi Jim, I like your story better than I do mine. Setting out for the upper > Missouri 2 days before Christmas seems a bit fool hardy for someone who grew > up in Europe. While getting in the fire wood over the last several days I > have been trying to remember the resource that I read on Pomp. I can > remember the 3 different times and places attributed to his mothers death. > Walt, What I wrote is not a "story," but a quote directly from Ann Hafen, a far better historian than I. The best part of it is that I didn''t have to rely on remembering anything. I looked it up and quoted chapter and verse, straight from the book to the list. That is how I understand the concept of documentation. Unfortunately, too many folks on this list "remember" things that just ain't so once the book gets opened. If we could all add a reference to our comments instead of just spouting opinions, comments from failed memories, this list would be a lot more attractive to those with a genuine interest in documented history. In a message dated 10/23/00 12:08:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Wfoster@cw2.com writes: >I think I recognize Jim Hardee's name from a picture on >one of them early Buckskinner books. If I remember right he was up on >horseback riding in the water. Crossing a creek in south western Montana. >The photo credit said he was from Billings. I tried to look him up back >then without any luck. But he came through on your side Ponyrider with the >documentation about Pomp being in the RMFT for 14 years according to Haffen. >Great stuff! Helps to counter Allen in Fort Hall Country. I don't know who you saw in the picture in the early Buckskinner book but I can tell you, I do not have the honor of being that person. My address and contact information is below. As for countering Allen in Fort Hall Country, I can't make that jump. First, there is nothing in Hafen's article that puts Jean Baptiste Charbonneau at Fort Hall. Second, you haven't defined "Metis" sufficiently for me to agree that Jean Baptiste could be classified as such. Finally, I totally agree with Allen. Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:11:47 -0400 From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Peregrinate > Peregrinate? Gwen says if she hears that word one more time, She may peregrinate to a reader of the law.<G> D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:32:23 -0400 From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements, Poison River "what are the additional 5 AMM reqs. not listed on the web site?" Jon, If we told you, we'd have to kill you...<BG> D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:52:36 -0600 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau Sir, I have freinds that live there, I would like to know where he is burried exactly. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: "atthesea" <atthesea@gte.net> >To: "Mountain Man List" <hist_text@xmission.com> >Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau >Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000, 10:31 PM > >Hello the list: >Last summer in the local Coos Bay, Oregon, newspaper, there was an article >regarding the grave of JBC. His grave is reportedly near Jordan Valley, >Oregon, near the Idaho line in SE Oregon. As I recall the story, JBC was >dumped (fell) into Owyhee River (west of Jordan Valley), caught a chill and >died in Jordan Valley and is buried near the site. The state was going to >fix up the area due the the L & C thing soon upcoming. There was other info >in the article on his mom, where/when she died, where buried. Can't recall >the details or the sources of the informaiton other than when the article >came out, I did some map work to locate where Jordan Valley was. >Just 'nuther bit to chew on. Beats Buffalo Steak... >Regards from foggy Coos Bay >Ghostrider > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:37:36 -0600 From: "Daniel L. Smith" <dlsmith@about.com> Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau/1676 <html><head><meta Name='keywords' Content='commtouch, pronto, mail, free email, free, branded, web based, free web based email, communications, internet, software, advertising banners, e-mail, free software'></head><body ><div align='left'><blockquote><blockquote><TT>Amen Jim, Well put Jim, seems this gentleman does the side step at many questions. If you can't show good reference to the subject, then don't comment - you waste everyone's time, that goes for several on the list. Concho. - ---- Begin Original Message ---- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau/1676 In a message dated 10/22/00 9:00:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Wfoster@cw2.com writes: > Hi Jim, I like your story better than I do mine. Setting out for the upper > Missouri 2 days before Christmas seems a bit fool hardy for someone who grew > up in Europe. While getting in the fire wood over the last several days I > have been trying to remember the resource that I read on Pomp. I can > remember the 3 different times and places attributed to his mothers death. > Walt, What I wrote is not a "story," but a quote directly from Ann Hafen, a far better historian than I. The best part of it is that I didn''t have to rely on remembering anything. I looked it up and quoted chapter and verse, straight from the book to the list. That is how I understand the concept of documentation. Unfortunately, too many folks on this list "remember" things that just ain't so once the book gets opened. If we could all add a reference to our comments instead of just spouting opinions, comments from failed memories, this list would be a lot more attractive to those with a genuine interest in documented history. In a message dated 10/23/00 12:08:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Wfoster@cw2.com writes: >I think I recognize Jim Hardee's name from a picture on >one of them early Buckskinner books. If I remember right he was up on >horseback riding in the water. Crossing a creek in south western Montana. >The photo credit said he was from Billings. I tried to look him up back >then without any luck. But he came through on your side Ponyrider with the >documentation about Pomp being in the RMFT for 14 years according to Haffen. >Great stuff! Helps to counter Allen in Fort Hall Country. I don't know who you saw in the picture in the early Buckskinner book but I can tell you, I do not have the honor of being that person. My address and contact information is below. As for countering Allen in Fort Hall Country, I can't make that jump. First, there is nothing in Hafen's article that puts Jean Baptiste Charbonneau at Fort Hall. Second, you haven't defined "Metis" sufficiently for me to agree that Jean Baptiste could be classified as such. Finally, I totally agree with Allen. Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 - ---- End Original Message ---- </TT> <TT> Later, Daniel L. "Concho" Smith Research & Documentation for: ______________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT "Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers". ________________________________________HRD__ Visit the HRD at: http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/ ______________________________________________ </TT> <TT>Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com </TT></blockquote></blockquote></div></body></html> - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:53:54 -0700 From: "atthesea" <atthesea@gte.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau Go to www.lcarchive.org/or_n0300.html and scroll way down. There is info on JBC being at Jordan Valley. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 6:52 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau > Sir, > I have freinds that live there, I would like to know where he is burried > exactly. > YMOS > Ole # 718 > ---------- > >From: "atthesea" <atthesea@gte.net> > >To: "Mountain Man List" <hist_text@xmission.com> > >Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau > >Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000, 10:31 PM > > > > >Hello the list: > >Last summer in the local Coos Bay, Oregon, newspaper, there was an article > >regarding the grave of JBC. His grave is reportedly near Jordan Valley, > >Oregon, near the Idaho line in SE Oregon. As I recall the story, JBC was > >dumped (fell) into Owyhee River (west of Jordan Valley), caught a chill and > >died in Jordan Valley and is buried near the site. The state was going to > >fix up the area due the the L & C thing soon upcoming. There was other info > >in the article on his mom, where/when she died, where buried. Can't recall > >the details or the sources of the informaiton other than when the article > >came out, I did some map work to locate where Jordan Valley was. > >Just 'nuther bit to chew on. Beats Buffalo Steak... > >Regards from foggy Coos Bay > >Ghostrider > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:32:23 -0700 (PDT) From: S Jones <deafstones@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements, Poison River - --- Dennis Miles <deforge1@bright.net> wrote: > > "what are the additional 5 AMM reqs. not listed > on the web site?" > > Jon, > If we told you, we'd have to kill you...<BG> > D You don't have Pilgrim Shoots like one club I know of, do you? That is, line 'em up and shoot 'em? ===== deafstones As I was walking up the stair I met a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today. I wish, I wish he'd stay away. Hughes Mearns __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1904 17:13:32 -0600 From: "Henry B. Crawford" <mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU> Subject: MtMan-List: Knife query redux Friends, The knife query never got answered. The thread went off on another tangent before folks could respond. I'm posting the original query again just in case anyone never saw it. Thanks, HBC A student of mine showed me a photo of a knife with a antler handle. The blade has an interesting marking near the base. There is a "V" and an "R" with a crown in between, indicating that it was possibly made in the time of Victoria. The manufacturer's name, Thornhill(?), is also stamped into the base of the blade. The knife is about 15 inches in overall length. Does anyone know of a English knife maker with a name similar to that, seen any other examples of the maker's work, and is anyone aware of reproductions being made of this maker's work? Please reply. Cheers, HBC ********************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University Box 43191 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 henry.b.crawford@ttu.edu 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum *** Living History . . . Because It's There *** - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:55:07 -0700 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Knife query redux Henry, As you've indicated, the "V...R" could quite possibly be the symbols for 'Victoria Reign'. This logo is quite often seen on British Commonwealth items of that era. John Funk - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry B. Crawford" <mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1904 4:13 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Knife query redux > Friends, > The knife query never got answered. The thread went off on another tangent > before folks could respond. I'm posting the original query again just in > case anyone never saw it. > > Thanks, > HBC > > A student of mine showed me a photo of a knife with a antler handle. The > blade has an interesting marking near the base. There is a "V" and an "R" > with a crown in between, indicating that it was possibly made in the time > of Victoria. The manufacturer's name, Thornhill(?), is also stamped into > the base of the blade. The knife is about 15 inches in overall length. > Does anyone know of a English knife maker with a name similar to that, seen > any other examples of the maker's work, and is anyone aware of > reproductions being made of this maker's work? > > Please reply. > > Cheers, > HBC > > ********************************** > Henry B. Crawford > Curator of History > Museum of Texas Tech University > Box 43191 > Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 > henry.b.crawford@ttu.edu > 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 > Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum > *** Living History . . . Because It's There *** > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #659 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.