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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #660
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Wednesday, October 25 2000 Volume 01 : Number 660
In this issue:
-áááááá MtMan-List: Index
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Knife query redux
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: metis
-áááááá MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
-áááááá MtMan-List: metis/Deschamps family
-áááááá MtMan-List: Poison River
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau
-áááááá MtMan-List: Canadian History on TV (OT)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Peregrinate
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Peregrinate
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: buffalo tongue
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Re: metis
-áááááá MtMan-List: Children of the Furtrade
-áááááá MtMan-List: ..... [OT] ..... Concho's Recent Posts to the List
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
-áááááá MtMan-List: Poison River
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Poison River
-áááááá MtMan-List: Humble Pie
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Poison River
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: MtMan list: sources of natural blue dye
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Poison River
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Poison River
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Peregrinate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:10:03 EDT
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Index
INDEX history_text
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:22:44 EDT
From: ThisOldFox@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Knife query redux
> A student of mine showed me a photo of a knife with a antler handle. The
> blade has an interesting marking near the base. There is a "V" and an "R"
> with a crown in between, indicating that it was possibly made in the time
> of Victoria. The manufacturer's name, Thornhill(?), is also stamped into
> the base of the blade.
Henry,
There was an English knifemaker, Walter Thornhill, London, 1890; who made
fine Victorian cutlery. It was usually finely accoutered tableware, often in
sterling silver. Your antler handled knife is probably a generic carving
knife made by him. One often runs across these antler handled set at antique
shows and flea markets.
If you go into google.com and type in the key words "walter thornhill english
knife" you will be returned with a British auction site which sold a set in
1998. The link was very slow and kept timing out on me, so I couldn't gain
any more info.
Of course, you could have done that yourself and saved me the trouble. <G>
Dave Kanger
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:25:33 -0600
From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: metis
I've been discussing this topic offline with Allen Hall, and he felt some
of our discussion might be useful to list members; Walt Foster & Ponyrider,
please feel free to correct me or add more info:
>When did Metis evolve as an identifiable name and
>people?
Well, there are two answers to that. The first one is that it happened
around 1805, when the first mainly half-breed settlement began, at Pembina.
The other is that the Metis became a nation during the Red River Rising in
1869, under the leadership of Louis 'David' Riel. It's similar to the
origin of both of our countries: before 1776 (or 1867, for Canada), there
was a group of English-speaking people that, in hindsight, we label
'Americans' or 'Canadians', but who were originally considered British.
Certain events made them become aware that they were a different nation.
>It certainly is possible that the half-breeds that I've read about
>could be Metis, but is what is a Metis? I guess in my mind, this hasn't
>been fully answered.
I think a good working definition is that a Metis is someone descended from
a man employed in the Canadian fur trade, and a Native woman. Louis Riel
could be a good example: His great-grandmother & great-grandfather were
Marie-Anne Lagimoniere (nee Gaboury), from Quebec, and Jean-Baptiste
Lagimoniere, a voyageur for the NWC & HBC, and also a freeman (what you
might call a free trapper). Their children were the first white kids born
in Western Canada (starting in 1806). One of their daughters (Reine?)
married a Metis man who came from (if I recall correctly) the
Isle-a-la-Crosse area in Saskatchewan, and one of _her_ children was Louis
Riel.
So who, in the US Rocky Mountain fur trade, would be considered a Metis?
Well, someone with a pedigree like Riel's, certainly. There were definitely
Metis at Fort Vancouver. For example, all of Dr. John McLoughlin's children
would be Metis, since his wife was Metis. (And with quite a fascinating
genealogy, too--her father was the Swiss fur trader, Jean-Etienne
Wadin, murdered by Peter Pond.) Since the McLoughlins married in 1811,
it's quite possible that some adult children accompanied them to Ft.
Vancouver. Chief Trader James Douglas and Peter Skene Ogden also had Metis
wives.
There is a new book called _Children of the Fur Trade_ that I believe deals
more specifically with the Metis west of the Rockies--Ponyrider, I think
you have more info on it? Who's the author & publisher? I haven't read it,
but now I'm going to have to check it out, since my info on Metis is
focused mostly on women.
Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:56:13 GMT
From: "Chance Tiffie" <bossloper@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
I was reading a biography in the Hafen series on Charles Larpenter last
night, and an incident with the Deschamp(sp) family, and another half-breed
family was mentioned. The Deschamp's were living at Ft. William, and were
vengefully killed. It was mentioned that the half-breed Deschamp family had
been kicked out of the "Red River" settlement. The word Metis wasn't used,
but could the Deschamps been Metis??
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:13:16 GMT
From: "Robert Thomson" <hunter1828@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
Well, let me tell you...
Yes they were. I have been doing much research into the Deschamps family
(over 3 years worth), and I have recently finished the third draft of a
paper entitled "'This Wicked Family': The Story of a Metis Family, their
Feuds, Fights, and Violent Demise". I intend to submit this paper to North
Dakota History magazine next month and hope that they publish it sometime
next year.
If anyone is interested in receiving a copy of my draft, let me know and I
will send it as an attachment in an off-list e-mail.
Robert Thomson
"Thanks to kind Providence, here I am again at good old Fort Union"
Charles Larpenteur, 1838
- ----
Robert Thomson
AMF Co
Fort Union
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Chance Tiffie" <bossloper@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:56:13 GMT
I was reading a biography in the Hafen series on Charles Larpenter last
night, and an incident with the Deschamp(sp) family, and another half-breed
family was mentioned. The Deschamp's were living at Ft. William, and were
vengefully killed. It was mentioned that the half-breed Deschamp family had
been kicked out of the "Red River" settlement. The word Metis wasn't used,
but could the Deschamps been Metis??
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:26:19 GMT
From: "Chance Tiffie" <bossloper@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamps family
Mr. Thompson,
I would like a copy, if it would not be much of an inconvenience.
Cliff Tiffie
PO Box 5089
Durant, OK
74702
580-924-4187
- ---------------------
Aux Aliments de Pays!
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:34:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: todd glover <tetontodd@juno.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Poison River
Jon,
Are you wondering about the Poison River as in "Poison River Party?" If so,
it is the Malad river located in Southeastern Idaho. Malade comes from the
French term "malade" meaning sickness. THe term seems to have originated
from trappers who ate beaver trapped in the river and later became sick. It
is speculated that the beaver had eaten roots that are poisonous to humans
and that the poison had been stored or concentrated in the beavers flesh or
liver.
"Teton" Todd Glover
#1784
- ------Original Message------
From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti)
To: hist_text@xmission.com
Sent: October 24, 2000 3:31:06 AM GMT
Subject: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements, Poison River
The AMM site lists 15 reqs. If I'm understanding this correctly (per
Capt.L), to earn Bossloper (full membership) one must complete 10 reqs.
in 1-2 years. To earn Hiveranno, one must complete 10 more reqs. (20
total) after being Bossloper for 3 years. Basic question is: what are
the additional 5 AMM reqs. not listed on the web site?
On another topic: Where exactly is Poison River located? Is (or was
originally) the water really that horrible and bad tasting?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:32:11 EDT
From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau
In a message dated 10/23/00, atthesea@gte.net writes:
<< Last summer in the local Coos Bay, Oregon, newspaper, there was an article
regarding the grave of JBC. His grave is reportedly near Jordan Valley,
Oregon, near the Idaho line in SE Oregon. >>
This is interesting. I' may have to do some research on this one of these
days. Wonder who that feller is buried in Potosi, Mo. with his name on the
stone?
Longshot
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:52:37 EDT
From: ThisOldFox@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau
> This is interesting. I' may have to do some research on this one of these
> days. Wonder who that feller is buried in Potosi, Mo. with his name on
the
> stone?
Longshot,
It's his old man, ain't it?
Fox
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:01:47 -0600
From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Canadian History on TV (OT)
You folks in the States are lucky, you've had so many good history series
on TV, from _The Civil War_ to _Liberty!_. In Canada, we've had almost
nothing. Finally, though, we have a very promising new series on the
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC), called _Canada: A People's
History_. Talk about ambitious--they're doing *all* of Canadian history,
from pre-contact Native pre-history (the first episode) right up to the
present day, in thirty hours worth of two hour episodes, spread over two
seasons. I was quite nervous before I saw the first show, on Sunday, but it
was wonderful. I have to wait until January before I can see the episode
that covers the 1774-1821 fur trade era, but I know now that it's going to
be worth the wait. If anyone's stuck in a Canadian hotel room, or can
receive CBC TV at home, check it out; it's on Sundays, 8-10 pm, and
repeated on Thursdays, 8-10.
Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:06:04 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Peregrinate
Friends,
Magpie and I are setting here contemplating our morning romp in the bush for
pheasants and quail along the Snake River. Two shots, one quail. Nice head
shot with a Tulle', thank you! (on the fly of course)
Anyway Magpie has come up with another term that is probably period correct.
"Sashay", To move or proceed easily or nonchalantly. We "sashayed" along
the bush to the headlands where we partook of a simple repast of jerky,
parched corn, maple sugar covered walnuts and branch water. After which we
proceeded to walk up a couple covey's of quail. Shortly after the battle
with the quail I kicked two mule deer, a doe and a fork horn into Magpie
from the middle of a copse of brier.
We then retired to the nearest Brewpub and partook of some fine German
victuals where we rehashed our adventure. We now proceed to Crawdad's camp
to plan our next sashay. (use it or loose it <G>) I remain....
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:24:02 -0400
From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Peregrinate
Iffen I'd a knowed Magpie "sashayed". I'dda charged him more for his
sticker..<BG> Generally, around here at least, when growed men "sashay" we
tend to stay plumb clear of them...<G>
D
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:55:00 EDT
From: Tomactor@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Jean Baptiste Charbonneau
In a message dated 10/24/00 2:53:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ThisOldFox@aol.com writes:
> This is interesting. I' may have to do some research on this one of these
> > days. Wonder who that feller is buried in Potosi, Mo. with his name on
> the
> > stone?
>
> Longshot,
>
> It's his old man, ain't it?
>
or supposedly next to one of his mother's supposed graves near Ft. Hall, ID
Tom Laidlaw, web coordinator for <A
HREF="http://rutnut.com/octa/store/front.htm">OCTA's On-line Bookstore</A>
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:18:14 -0500
From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
Mr. Thomson,
I'd be obliged if you would send me a copy
of your draft.
Thanks,
Victoria
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:54:59 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: buffalo tongue
Ho there camp,
i have priest journal that ref. (4 carts of 2 merchances buying buffalo
tongue and dipping them in molasses in reding for shipping back to the
settlements) Does anyone have any thing on this. how was it cooked and how
big was the buffalo tongue market. also when was baking powder first used in
northern ter.
going deeper into history
ponyrider
Hallo your camp,
Ponyrider: I'm coming on in!
I noticed that none of the others have posted any answers to your question.
Therefore I will venture mine.
I can give you a straight forward answer to your question about tongues. It
does not come from the books of history but rather from my
grandmother....gulp...VBG
The molasses dip coats the dried tongue with sulphur. This keeps the dried
tongue in good condition.
1. Prepared for eating the dried tongue is soaked in plain water to
rehydrate.
2. When soft and plump the tongue is ready for cooking in a boiling pot with
fresh water.
3. The meat is allowed to cool. Sliced and served cold.
I have been thinking about this correspondence while getting in some winter
wood over in my camp along with some other things. One thing is for sure. I
cannot spend time on this electronic camp fire to interact in a real active
way with all the time it consumes. I can barely ride this here pc. There
are periods when I can hack it in terms of time and when I can not. I had
2 big royal elk and 1 real nice 6 point mule deer buck through camp. The
boys have kept me busy these first 3 days of this years meat making season
running around. And what a grand start it has been. I like the idea of
these small 4 to 5 man camps in the honey holes. It is a fine way to keep
things moving. It is quiet moving and cool enough to handle big game
easily. I hope your family is doing as good as mine is as winter's
celebration of true 4 seasons comes on us during our fall preparations for
what ever winter we are given to live with this year. The satellite weather
picture looks pretty good too. For the rest of this week. This first week
is usually the best as you know. Great Big Grin-GBG. Got my hair dressed
and I am looking for my war paint bag!
Ooops. Still busy....gotta go.
PS. Maybe that NPS Historian at Ft Union would be able to comment on the
scale of the tongues and baking powder. Better half calls....
Walt in his badgerhole
Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837
Clark Bottom Rendezvous
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:55:02 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: metis
I've been discussing this topic offline with Allen Hall, and he felt some
of our discussion might be useful to list members; Walt Foster & Ponyrider,
please feel free to correct me or add more info:
>When did Metis evolve as an identifiable name and
>people?
Well, there are two answers to that. The first one is that it happened
around 1805, when the first mainly half-breed settlement began, at Pembina.
Angela Gottfred
Hi Angela,
Your first answer appears to be the most appropriate for understanding the
history of the Metis in Montana. Also as I understand it that Pembina was
considered a town by 1805. Pembina is only 150 miles or so north of where
Lewis and Clark spent the winter of 1804/1805. Pembina is also attributed
to be a cultural growth of the North American Fur Trade beginning with the
French. The French fur trade was first and left it's share of mixed blood.
A strong part of the Metis culture was French particularly appearing so in
what is now called Montana.
Walt
Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837
Clark Bottom Rendezvous
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:48:07 -0700
From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Children of the Furtrade
Hallo
Children of the Fur Trade : Forgotten Metis of the Pacific Northwest by
John C. Jackson. Paperback (October 1995)
It's a good book for those of us in the North and west. I bought it to
better understand what and who the Metis were/are and how they affected
the fur trade in our area (Nor'Westers and HBC). It has a lot of good
info in it.
Regards from Idaho
Lee Newbill
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:02:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti)
Subject: MtMan-List: ..... [OT] ..... Concho's Recent Posts to the List
Is anyone else experiencing "scrambling" of ONLY HIS POSTS? embedded
with some sort of extraneous <computer code> that makes message 5 times
longer and almost impossible to read. seems to be occurring only just
recently with his apparently new e-address.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynn Kirby <lynnkirby@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
Mr Thomson, I would also appreciate a copy of your
paper. I'v read alittle about the Deschamp family in
Ben Innis's book "Sagas of the Smoky-Water"
- --- Robert Thomson <hunter1828@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well, let me tell you...
>
> Yes they were. I have been doing much research into
> the Deschamps family
> (over 3 years worth), and I have recently finished
> the third draft of a
> paper entitled "'This Wicked Family': The Story of a
> Metis Family, their
> Feuds, Fights, and Violent Demise". I intend to
> submit this paper to North
> Dakota History magazine next month and hope that
> they publish it sometime
> next year.
> If anyone is interested in receiving a copy of my
> draft, let me know and I
> will send it as an attachment in an off-list e-mail.
>
> Robert Thomson
>
> "Thanks to kind Providence, here I am again at good
> old Fort Union"
> Charles Larpenteur, 1838
>
> ----
> Robert Thomson
> AMF Co
> Fort Union
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Chance Tiffie" <bossloper@hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:56:13 GMT
>
> I was reading a biography in the Hafen series on
> Charles Larpenter last
> night, and an incident with the Deschamp(sp) family,
> and another half-breed
> family was mentioned. The Deschamp's were living
> at Ft. William, and were
> vengefully killed. It was mentioned that the
> half-breed Deschamp family had
> been kicked out of the "Red River" settlement. The
> word Metis wasn't used,
> but could the Deschamps been Metis??
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own
> public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:19:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti)
Subject: MtMan-List: Poison River
Thanks Allen. It's a mystery why in that period of time the water would
be polluted. maybe beaver could have had some unknown virus-bacteria.
guess we'll never know for sure unless some new documentation surfaces.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:48:21 -0700
From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Poison River
Jon Marinetti wrote:
> Thanks Allen. It's a mystery why in that period of time the water would
> be polluted.
Jon... twern't pollution, but what the beaver were eating... here's a
snippet that Clay Landry sent a while back, quoted from Alexander Ross's
book "Fur Hunters of the Far West" (page 276).
Fall hunt of 1824- We now turn our attention to the Riviere aux
Malades. We
found beaver in considerable numbers.... For after breakfast the second
morning
a number of the people were taken ill, and the sickness becoming
general
throughout the camp, it struck me that there must have been sonething
poisonous
in our food or water.... and found that all those who had breakfasted
on the
fresh beaver taken out of the river were affected! ...The sickness
first showed
itself in a pain about the kidneys, then the stomach, and afterwards
the back of
the neck and all the nerves, and by and by the whole system became
affected.
The suffers were almost speechless and motionless, having scarcely the
power
to stir yet suffering great pain, which caused froth about the
mouth....Some were
sick for part of the day, but others, owing perhaps to the quantity
they had
eaten, were several days before they got over it and some of them felt
the effects
of it for a month afterwards. We then examined the flesh of the beaver
and
found it much whiter and softer, and the people who had eaten of it
said much
sweeter to the taste than the flesh of beaver generally. As there was
no wood
about the banks of the river we supposed these animals must have lived
on
roots, and in their food have eaten some poisoness roots which although
not
strong enough to destroy them was sufficiently deletorious to injure
us, and from
this it was that I named this stream Riviere aux Malades. (foot note
says now
called Big Wood River in south central Idaho).
Regards from Idaho
Lee Newbill
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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:11:31 EDT
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Humble Pie
Dear Kanger, Kramer and others-equally-offended,
I am posting this on the site since, in my hasty anger, I posted in front of
others so brashly. I would like to address several issues in a humble manner.
FIRST, I would like to offer my apologies to Mr. Kanger for my
quick-temper and lack of restraint. My inappropriate reply was not so much
aimed at him as it was a lack of handling (on my part) stressful events of
that particular day and that was unexcusable. I am not in any way attempting
to justify or excuse this behavior and would like to express my sorrow and
ask Mr. Kanger to accept my apology and extend his forgiveness to me for the
rude reply.
SECONDLY, enough with all the cracks on the name! It was NOT (despite a
prior posting interpreting it as a smart-allecky nom-de-plume) a
smart-alecky nom-de-plume in response to a suggestion that signed posting
were more appropriate. I am not "tenured" at any university nor am I a
stranger to the woods & mtn.s with little to make do with (just new to doing
it with a BP rifle and buckskins & tow-cloth). I think to assume that b/c
one has survived with primitive/pc items that others are not skilled as
getting by with little (how different is a pc skinning knife from a modern
replica when it comes to using it for survival...or a modern fire-stell vs. a
pc fire-steel?) could be an error. I by no means tend to take away from the
accomplishment of the bossloper or hivernant but do not think that those of
you who have reached such lofty achievements are the only persons capable of
such survival skills.
THIRD, people around my neck of the woods DO regularly use terms such as
"chaw or chew the fat". Also, I used the term "coon" as it was used in the
sense of fur trade vernacular (another term was regularly employed without
offense which may well cause litigation if it were spoken today). At any
rate, I LIKE THE WAY THOSE GUYS TALKED! If I make a mistake, then I will
accept correction. To those that took offense at the term "coon" I refer you
to the AMM web-page and its glossary of terms used by the Mtn. men.
I posted/spoke in haste a few nights back to Mr. Kanger and I accept my
licks for it (I read every posting re: this issue) and I repeat my apology
and request for forgiveness to Mr. Kanger and the others whom I may have
offended.
I remain yours with a stuffed belly (of crow with humble pie for desert)
- -C. Kent
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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:16:47 -0700
From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Poison River
From what I remember reading (God only knows where) the beaver had been
eating a certain plant, which tainted their meat for human consumption.
hardtack
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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:26:36 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <shootsprairie@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
Mr. Thomson,
I'd like a copy of your paper on this family. Thank you.
Larry Huber
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Thomson <hunter1828@hotmail.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
> Well, let me tell you...
>
> Yes they were. I have been doing much research into the Deschamps family
> (over 3 years worth), and I have recently finished the third draft of a
> paper entitled "'This Wicked Family': The Story of a Metis Family, their
> Feuds, Fights, and Violent Demise". I intend to submit this paper to
North
> Dakota History magazine next month and hope that they publish it sometime
> next year.
> If anyone is interested in receiving a copy of my draft, let me know and I
> will send it as an attachment in an off-list e-mail.
>
> Robert Thomson
>
> "Thanks to kind Providence, here I am again at good old Fort Union"
> Charles Larpenteur, 1838
>
> ----
> Robert Thomson
> AMF Co
> Fort Union
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Chance Tiffie" <bossloper@hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: MtMan-List: metis/Deschamp(sp)family
> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:56:13 GMT
>
> I was reading a biography in the Hafen series on Charles Larpenter last
> night, and an incident with the Deschamp(sp) family, and another
half-breed
> family was mentioned. The Deschamp's were living at Ft. William, and
were
> vengefully killed. It was mentioned that the half-breed Deschamp family
had
> been kicked out of the "Red River" settlement. The word Metis wasn't
used,
> but could the Deschamps been Metis??
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:47:02 EDT
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MtMan list: sources of natural blue dye
O.K., you write:
"Indigo was the most common source of blue dye throughout the 18th and 19th
century. Other dyestuffs were also utilized such as: Prussian blue, woad,
and chemic. Woad was utilized in Europe before the Dutch imported the East
Indian Indigo during the later part of the 16th century. According to the
Smithsonian," . . . . . .
I have just started to look for Indigo and have found no sources. Any
leads???
R. James
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:54:09 EDT
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Poison River
That would most likely be Water Hemlock the Beaver were eating. The way the
trappers were affected by the beaver meat is very similar to the symptoms of
Hemlock poisoning. Water Hemlock still grows on both the Big Wood River in
south central Idaho and the Malad River in south eastern Idaho.
Crazy Cyot
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:01:39 -0600
From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Poison River
At 10:19 PM 10/24/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>Thanks Allen. It's a mystery why in that period of time the water would
>be polluted. maybe beaver could have had some unknown virus-bacteria.
>guess we'll never know for sure unless some new documentation surfaces.
Actually, the water wasn't polluted. Some think the beaver ate water hemlock.
Allen
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:12:04 EDT
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Peregrinate
In a message dated 10/24/00 3:24:56 PM, deforge1@bright.net writes:
<< Iffen I'd a knowed Magpie "sashayed". I'dda charged him more for his
sticker..<BG> Generally, around here at least, when growed men "sashay" we
tend to stay plumb clear of them...<G>
D >>
Haaaaaaaaaa! Dennis, your confusing sissy or sassy with sashay!!!?! Ain't
no one more phobic than me, so , let's go with "Pereginate".....<G> Ain't no
"sashayin" around here....
Magpie
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End of hist_text-digest V1 #660
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