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hist_text-digest     Thursday, September 28 2000     Volume 01 : Number 635



In this issue:

-áááááá MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #634
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Bob Schmidt
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Industrial Revolution
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Take a good look at this.
-áááááá MtMan-List: Fwd: Firelighting
-áááááá MtMan-List: Industrial Revolution
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá MtMan-List: take a good look at this
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Knife query
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá [none]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Charlie's email
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: take a good look at this
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Charlie's email
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:25:28 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

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Subject: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:15:54 -0500
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- -
Subject:    Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

September 20, 2000


Dear friend of liberty,

Senator Jack Reed (RI) introduced S. 2099 in the U.S. Senate on February
24, 2000.  Senators Charles Schumer (NY) and Frank Lautenberg (NJ) are
cosponsors of the bill.

S. 2099 would amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to require the
registration of all handguns, both newly-purchased and currently-owned
handguns, with the federal government.  Current owners would be
required to register their handguns by submitting an application with
a photograph and fingerprints and pay a tax within one year after the
enactment of S. 2099.  The information submitted by owners of handguns
would be kept in a central-government database known as the National
Firearms Registration and Transfer Record maintained by the
Secretary of the Treasury.

Any law-abiding citizen who owns a handgun and does not want to be
tracked by this government database had better carefully read the
"Transfer Rule" section of this bill, which states he or she "shall
register such handgun"..."upon the transfer of such handgun before
such 1 year anniversary date."  In other words, you will be required
to register handguns you no longer own.

Gotcha!

Gun makers would be assessed a $50.00 tax per gun manufactured.
This on the manufacturer, as do all such taxes on the production
of goods, will be passed on to the consumer as an increase in the
purchase price.

S. 2099 is currently in the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance.  We need
to make sure that S. 2099 doesn't make it out of committee.

Even though S. 2099 has only two cosponsors, it is, nonetheless, a
pending bill.  As I wrote in my last update, anything is possible during
the last weeks of a congressional session.  Therefore, we need to tell
our U.S. senators we are aware of S. 2099 and that we strongly
oppose it.

Go to http://www.thelibertycommittee.org and click on S. 2099 in the
Self Defense section, then click on Take Action Here! to express your
opinion about S. 2099 to your two U.S. senators.

Kent Snyder
The Liberty Committee
http://www.thelibertycommittee.org



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:31:00 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #634

>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:17:51 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
>Subject: MtMan-List: contact for Bob Schmidt
>
>Can any of the brothers out there tell me if Bob
>Schmidt from Montana is still making saddles and such,
>and if so how can I contact him.  Thanks in advance, DOG
>

Bob still does saddle work, and he lives in Hamilton, MT (actually near
Corvallis)  He also does footwear.  He made me a pair of outstanding
straight last brogans a couple of years ago.  His email address is
[e-mail].  Tell him hello for me.

HBC

**********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442  FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
***  Living History . . . Because It's There  ***



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:32:01 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Bob Schmidt

>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:17:51 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
>Subject: MtMan-List: contact for Bob Schmidt
>
>Can any of the brothers out there tell me if Bob
>Schmidt from Montana is still making saddles and such,
>and if so how can I contact him.  Thanks in advance, DOG
>

Bob still does saddle work, and he lives in Hamilton, MT (actually near
Corvallis)  He also does footwear.  He made me a pair of outstanding
straight last brogans a couple of years ago.  His email address is
[e-mail].  Tell him hello for me.

At last report, his place was untouched by the fires.

HBC

**********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442  FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
***  Living History . . . Because It's There  ***



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:38:06 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Industrial Revolution

Thanks.  I stand corrected.  However, I still contend that the Industrial
Revolution was underway during the fur trade era.

HBC

>Henry,
>
>Just one thing I would like to correct in your post about the Industrial
>Revolution. Eli Whitney did not introduce interchangeable parts, (This is a
>fallacy that was taught in history classes and still believed by many
>people.) He only talked about interchangeable parts as a sales promotion for
>his gun manufacturing. He was not able to achieve this until long after many
>others had already achieved interchangability. In order to get government
>contracts for arms he boasted of complete parts interchangablility, but was
>not able to fulfill these contracts.
>
>YMOS,
>Harddog


**********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442  FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
***  Living History . . . Because It's There  ***



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:49:38 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Take a good look at this.

Cherokeoil,

How the HECK does this belong on this list!  I, for one, don't care to see
this garbage.  I'd much rather share a camp with a PAGAN who cares about his
environment than a CHRISTIAN who only worries about giving "lost" souls a
chance to know the "lord".

Give us all a break.

Lou Sickler
Colorado Territory

> -----Original Message-----
> From:    [e-mail] [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:21 AM
> To:    [e-mail]
> Subject:    MtMan-List: Take a good look at this.
>
> Subj:     Take a good look at this
> Date:   00-09-17 00:15:40 EDT
> From:   [e-mail] (cedric)
> > >Subject: Take a good look at this
> > >
> > >
> > > Read & Weep!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >CBS will be forced to discontinue "Touched by an Angel" for
> > >using the word God in every program.
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:10:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: S Jones <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Firelighting

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Note: forwarded message attached.


=====
defstones
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge.
Knowledge is of the past,
Wisdom is of the future."
- -Native American Proverb

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
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Lifted from Usenet:- does this sound rather like a floppy fire-hole to
anyone else?

*****************************

From: [e-mail] (Ewan Scott)
Subject: Firelighting
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:11:06 GMT

I thought this might be of interest:-


<Quote>

We had no matches in those days; so we had to make our fires by
striking white indian flint or by filling a buckskin with dry, rotton
wood or tree canker - touchwood - and then rubbing it up and down
a
sinew bow string until it got hot and started an ember in the
touchwood. We had a Professional "fire man" with the tribe, a man
whose business it was to carry fire with him from camp to camp
and
sell it to the members of the tribe when they were ready to make
their
fires.
he carried the fire in a hollow birch log about two feet long. He
would start and ember and then put in a lot of touchwood and strap
the
log [covered in buckskin] to his horse and carry it for a day or so
without having to bother about it again. We youngsters used to like
to
see him open it; it looked like a quiet, glowing little furnace, as he
placed himself in the middle of the camp and started to dole out his
embers to those who wanted to start their fires.
<end quote>

from Long Lance - the autobiography of Chief Buffalo Child Long
Lance,
a Blackfoot Indian. Published by ABACUS  ISBN 0 349 12209


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:12:08 -0500
From: "harddog" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Industrial Revolution

"Thanks.  I stand corrected.  However, I still contend that the Industrial
Revolution was underway during the fur trade era."

HBC

Henry,

Yes, you are correct that the Industrial Revolution was underway during the
fur trade era. It spread here from England and Europe. I just took exception
with the old notion that we can credit Eli Whitney with the actual
development of interchangeable parts.

Many people forget that, during the RMFT era, many great and wonderous
things were being developed in the Eastern part of this country.

YMOS,
Randy Hedden


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:34:31 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

Why would a "law abiding citizen" fear guns being tracked?  Unless, 1) s/he
had something to hide; 2) s/he wasn't really a "law abiding citizen, or 3)
s/he was paranoid about our own government.
Maybe this would assist in keeping guns from "the bad guys."

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:28:33 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)


> Why would a "law abiding citizen" fear guns being tracked?  Unless, 1)
s/he
> had something to hide; 2) s/he wasn't really a "law abiding citizen, or 3)
> s/he was paranoid about our own government.
> Maybe this would assist in keeping guns from "the bad guys."

This also has no place on this list. No way to stop pro or anti but this is
the History List, not the "Liberal Feel Good list" or the "Nuke Em All and
Let God Sort It Out List".

Since you asked, let's ask the question, How does it keep guns out of the
hands of the bad guys? And how does it do that without infringing on your
Right to Possess a means of protecting you and your family from bad guys
that don't obey the law, much less your way of life and your government from
despots and tyrants who Know What is best for you?

That's why this is not appropriate for this list. Take it else where. BTW,
What dies SFH stand for. I remain.....Sir or Madam,

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:59:46 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

In a message dated 9/28/00 10:35:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< s/he was paranoid about our own government.  >>

THIS HAS NO PLACE ON THIS LIST, BUT, SINCE YOU BROUGHT IT UP....

Thinking you answered your own question there..  you SHOULD BE danged
paranoid about any government that wants to track gun owners. All it would
take is another law at a later date that banned the possession of guns, and
you can bet your bottom dollar that since they have the addresses where the
guns are, they'll come get 'em, and then who is gonna have the guns?  Only
the gov't and the 'bad guys' as you call them...  Check out what has happened
in the UK and Australia....
GET A GRIP FRIEND!!!!           Barney

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:29:11 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: take a good look at this

    What does a discussion of a TV show like Touched by an Angel have to do
with this list?
    Too bad this list is not manually moderated.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:08:01 -0500
From: Jim Lindberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/00 10:35:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [e-mail]
> writes:
>
> << s/he was paranoid about our own government.  >>
>
> THIS HAS NO PLACE ON THIS LIST, BUT, SINCE YOU BROUGHT IT UP....
>
> Thinking you answered your own question there..  you SHOULD BE danged
> paranoid about any government that wants to track gun owners.


If we all were paranoid about what the government is doing we would all
be living in the mountains....er...never mind!   B^)

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:18:10 -0500
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Knife query

I believe there is some information in "Firearms Traps and Tools of the
Mountain Man" regarding the V&R marking.

northwoods


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: September 27, 2000 3:24 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Knife query


> Friends,
> A student of mine showed me a photo of a knife with a antler handle.  The
> blade has an interesting marking near the base.   There is a "V" and an
"R"
> with a crown in between, indicating that it was possibly made in the time
> of Victoria.  The manufacturer's name, Thornhill(?), is also stamped into
> the base of the blade.  The knife is about 15 inches in overall length.
> Does anyone know of a English knife maker with a name similar to that, and
> is anyone aware of reproductions being made of this maker's work?
>
> Please reply.
>
> Cheers,
> HBC
>
> **********************************
> Henry B. Crawford
> Curator of History
> Museum of Texas Tech University
> Box 43191
> Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
> [e-mail]
> 806/742-2442  FAX [phone]
> Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
> ***  Living History . . . Because It's There  ***
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:09:03 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

<< s/he was paranoid about our own government.  >>
>
>  THIS HAS NO PLACE ON THIS LIST, BUT, SINCE YOU BROUGHT IT UP....
>
>  GET A GRIP FRIEND!!!!

Well, the bait was thrown out, and at least 3 suckers have taken it so far.
Consequently, everyone else will now feel obligated to defend their own
thoughts.
That is why whenever you receive one of these messages, it is considered SPAM.
It's only purpose is to incite friction among us, and we need to stick
together.
It also wastes considerable bandwidth and resources in doing so.

This same bill was on this list less than a month ago, and nothing was
resolved then.
Send a private email to the do-gooder who thought he was doing you a favor,
and tell him what an inconsiderate A-hole he is.  Then, if you are so
inclined to debate your freedoms with someone who wants to argue with you,
join the RKBA list, or any of the others that deal specifically with the
discussion of those topics.

You owe it to yourself as a private, gun-owning citizen to keep track of what
is happening.
Unfortunately, this is not the place to do it...................
I told you last time that this particular bill has been tabled in committee.
Here is a personal email from a friend of mine who is a current director of
the NRA, so you can read it for yourself........

- -------------------begin quoted message------------------------------
    Yeah, this thing has become one of those "urban Myths" except that
there actually IS an S 2099, but it is going absolutely nowhere, according
to NRA staff and out chief lobbyist Jim Baker. It was DOA when Jack Reed
(the little pimple) filed it earlier this year.

    He promises to re-file it in the next Congress... provided the good
folks of Rhode Island re-elect the little shit... and then it may grow legs
IF the Democrats take back Congress and win the White House...
- -----------------end quoted message-------------------------------------

I hope this is sufficient to kill this thread forever.   Thanks
Dave Kanger

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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:16:30 EDT
From: "DAVID ALBAUGH" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

UNSUBSCRIBE HIST_TEXT-DIGEST
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:32:22 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID ALBAUGH" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:16 PM


> UNSUBSCRIBE HIST_TEXT-DIGEST


To unsubscribe, send mail to [e-mail], where the body of the
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:21:44 -0700
From: "Bruce S. de Lis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

"THIS HAS NO PLACE ON THIS LIST"

Nuff Said......

Pp in Az



>
>
> THIS HAS NO PLACE ON THIS LIST, BUT, SINCE YOU BROUGHT IT UP....
>
> Thinking you answered your own question there..  you SHOULD BE danged
> paranoid about any government that wants to track gun owners. All it would
> take is another law at a later date that banned the possession of guns, and
> you can bet your bottom dollar that since they have the addresses where the
> guns are, they'll come get 'em, and then who is gonna have the guns?  Only
> the gov't and the 'bad guys' as you call them...  Check out what has happened
> in the UK and Australia....
> GET A GRIP FRIEND!!!!           Barney
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:25:13 -0700
From: Randal J Bublitz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

Huss,  My answer is (C)...I don't trust my government.  Why is my
government afraid of me being armed, and why do they want to know about
it?  In States where concealed carry is allowed, the crime rates go down,
and stay down.  Citizens are safer when criminals do not know who is
armed.   hardtack

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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:13:53 -0600
From: David Mullen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

Gentlemen,

If you wish to discuss this why not take it to another forum, or at the very
least be polite enough to reply to each other off list so the rest of us
won't have to keep hitting the delete button.

YMHOS,
David Mullen
- --
David Mullen
202 Mesa Verde
Jemez Springs, NM 87025
email- [e-mail]
[phone]


Randal J Bublitz wrote:

> Huss,  My answer is (C)...I don't trust my government.  Why is my
> government afraid of me being armed, and why do they want to know about
> it?  In States where concealed carry is allowed, the crime rates go down,
> and stay down.  Citizens are safer when criminals do not know who is
> armed.   hardtack
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html





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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:27:26 -0700
From: "Bruce S. de Lis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fwd: : Update/S. 2099 (handgun registration)

- --------------A8429812B9442D1CFD17D4D6
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10-4

pp in az....

David Mullen wrote:

> Gentlemen,
>
> If you wish to discuss this why not take it to another forum, or at the very
> least be polite enough to reply to each other off list so the rest of us
> won't have to keep hitting the delete button.
>
> YMHOS,
> David Mullen
>



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<HTML>
10-4

<P>pp in az....

<P>David Mullen wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Gentlemen,

<P>If you wish to discuss this why not take it to another forum, or at
the very
<BR>least be polite enough to reply to each other off list so the rest
of us
<BR>won't have to keep hitting the delete button.

<P>YMHOS,
<BR>David Mullen
<BR><A HREF="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html"></A> </BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

- --------------A8429812B9442D1CFD17D4D6--


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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:37:41 -0400
From: "Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charlie's email

The email addy for Charlie is [e-mail] the web page for Backwoodsman
is http://www.purelight.com/bwmmag/publish.htm
Hope this helps!
Watch yer top knot!
Kevin
Are the Indigo Girls the ladies who put the "point" marks on Hudson's Bay
blankets?


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Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 19:47:15 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: take a good look at this

didnt realise you were on this list too frank---glad to have you
aboard---cpt l is also here along with lanny and many of the amm
BROTHERS---
NUFF SAID''''

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce       "Home Of the " Old Grizz " Product line    TRADEMARK
(C)
854 Glenfield Drive,    Palm Harbor,    Florida        34684
E-Mail: [e-mail]     Phone:  [phone]
Web Site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:54:12 +0800
From: "Hian Leng PANG" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charlie's email

Hi,
     Thanks to all who responded.  Reason I asked was because I saw a
beautiful knife for sale from Ritchie's artifacts at the back of the mag,
but has not recieved any news. Thanks!

Pang




"Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]>@lists.xmission.com on
09/29/2000 08:37:41 AM

Please respond to [e-mail]

Sent by:  [e-mail]

To:   <[e-mail]>
cc:

Subject:  Re: MtMan-List: Charlie's email


The email addy for Charlie is [e-mail] the web page for Backwoodsman
is http://www.purelight.com/bwmmag/publish.htm
Hope this helps!
Watch yer top knot!
Kevin
Are the Indigo Girls the ladies who put the "point" marks on Hudson's Bay
blankets?


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:11:51 -0500
From: "jdearing" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm

>Book 2 has a length article on making horns, and is worth a read.   The
whole series is worth looking into.   You can get >the whole series from
Scurlock publishing, I believe their website is www.muzzmag.com.

Check out these horns; http://www.cit.state.vt.us/vhs/precious/phorn60.htm
http://www.tfaoi.com/newsm1/n1m617.htm

and these sites too;
 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/horn/hornhome.html
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/4034/horn.html

This one a video on  hornmaking;
http://www.blackpowderjournal.com/Vol2No4/Articles/BPJ24-4.htm



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