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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:21:19 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: white women! (con't)
Lanney,
I recently picked up a copy of Clifford Drury's two books, "The Mountains We
Have Crossed" and "Where Wagons Could Go" for my library. (He has put out one
other which I am trying to find.) They are the letters and dairies of these women.
Very little is known of the ladies you mention who went west in 1840, even their
first names. There are references (I think two very short mentions), one that they
were going west with the caravans and one that they picked up their guide and left)
for that year's rendezvous, but probably only used it as a stopping place. The missioniaries
didn't like the scene they found there and usually once they make connections to go
further westward, did. Mr. Gowans is a well respected writer and I bow to him. But,
I don't feel that they were a major part of the scene that year, by this time (even
if it was the smallest and last of the renedzvous), the trappers and company men
had found that the shine had worn off these "white women". The couples going
west for saving the savages had only one thing on their minds and beside being nice
to who ever helped them, basicly stayed to themselves. In fact, they chalked
up to divine providience helping them through many trials- not to how others had
helped them or the many other people who went through the same thing and lived.
I think the last gathering lasted what- three or four days? And besides being a resting
place, wasn't that big of deal to them or to me that they showed up there.
This may sound very anti-christian, my pounding of them. But even as a christian
today, I would find being around them for any length of time laborious. They were
a different stripe, and even though I belong to the same church (Presbyterian) as
the majority of them, I don't think I would like them. Probably like the rest of you,
these green horns (and they were!) would only receive enough notice to keep them from
injuring themselves or anyone around them and that would be about it. They were a pain
in the neck to the caravans by not wanting to travel on the Sabbath, didn't want stand
guard at night (in fact, they paid others to do it), had trouble with packing and un packing
every day and had to hire men to do it for them all the way west.
Sorry for rambling. I do respect Mr. Gowans and others like him. The missionaries
in 1840 did make to the rendzvous, but they camped away from the main gathering and
didn't stay long. So my opinion is that they don't merit mention on the list. But, just my
opinion.
mike.
Ratcliff wrote:
> Mike
> What is your basis for stating that only 4 white women attended a rendezvous? Fred Gowan's book "Rocky Mountain Rendezvous" says that many on your list, all missionary's wives, attended the following rendezvous:
> 1840 Mrs Harvey Clark
> Mrs P. B. Littlejohn
> Mrs Alvin T. Smith
> 1839: Mrs John S Griffith
> Mrs Asahel Munger
> 1838 Mrs. W H Gray
> Mary Richardson Walker (Mrs Elkanah Walker)
> Myra Fairbanks Eells (Mrs Cushing Eells)
> Sarah Gilbert White Smith (Mrs Asa B. Smith)
> 1836 Narcissa Whitman (Mrs Marcus Whitman)
> Eliza Spaulding (Mrs Henry Spaulding)
> Does Gowan's book inaccurately place these women at rendezvous, and if that is the case, were these missionaries simply traveling on their own hook, bound for Oregon? Much of Gowan's information is based on diaries of those in the rendezvous caravans and has been commonly accepted as factual. I would be very interested in your comments.
> YMOS
> Lanney Ratcliff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Moore" <amm1616@earthlink.net>
> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 11:23 PM
> Subject: MtMan-List: white women! (con't)
>
> > Sorry guys,
> > I wrote one line which I should clarify,
> > the ladies who came west in 1838 did go to the
> > rendezvous too, so there were actually four that
> > went to the "Trade Fairs" in the west (and not two).
> > I tend to treat this form of communication different
> > than when I put out info for other things, like articles,
> > rescearch papers, etc... and I shouldn't. So, I'll
> > try to proof read and think more in depth on things like
> > this before I hit the send button. I'm surprised you guys
> > didn't catch it and rouse me about it.
> > mike.
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:29:04 -0400
From: "Dennis Earp" <96mfg@hspower.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TRADE GUNS
Dave,
Do you know if there is solid documentation for this method? I have
heard of a similar method by individual owners where they would
urinate on the metal instead of using salt, but I have still not been able
to document it. I have been told by more than one knowledgable
person that it was documented to the mid eighteenth century, but I
still haven't found it.
Thanks,
Dennis
> One of the earliest, most used, and least mentioned methods of metal
> finishing on these early firearms was salt. It works quickly, imparts the
> required finish to the metal, and is durable.
>
> You swab a salt solution on the metal, let it rust, and card it off. An
> asphaltum or linseed oil coating was often used to kill the action
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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:06:22 EDT
From: ThisOldFox@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TRADE GUNS
> Do you know if there is solid documentation for this method? I have
> heard of a similar method by individual owners where they would
> urinate on the metal instead of using salt,
Dennis,
Angier's book document's it to very early times. I have also seen it
elsewhere, but a senior moment prevents immediate recollection. When it
comes to me, I will post it. It may have been in a book I have about Eli
Whitney' gun manufacturing techniques.
Dave
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Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:35:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Noe <gnoe39@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mystic symbols
- --- ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote:
> > I will attache picture of symbols crooked heart,
> X-cross and eight-tips
> star.
>
> Pavel,
>
> There is nothing mystic about the inlay decorations.
> They evolved from the
> folklore of the Pennsylvania gunmakers of the US.
Ho the list !!!
Did I miss something,or have we not answered Pavel's
question ????
I thought she ask about these symbols on early
European arms(pre -American)
Was the earliest arms guns made in America and sent
to Europe?
Or did the Pennsylvanian gunmakers just bring these
"designs" with them as they either was trained in
Europe,or by European makers??
I thought she stated they were on arms "pre-dating"
the American arms.(At least thats the way I read her)
HOW ABOUT IT PEGGY ????
$00.02
grn
=====
George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
