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hist_text-digest         Friday, June 9 2000         Volume 01 : Number 573



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Wyoming State Museum Discovery Trunk
-áááááá Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
-áááááá Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls
-áááááá MtMan-List: (no subject)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Walnut hull mordant
-áááááá MtMan-List: More on Beaver
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: More on Beaver
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: More on Beaver
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #568
-áááááá MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #568
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá MtMan-List: AMM e-mail addresses
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
-áááááá MtMan-List: The Origin of Oxblood.......

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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:29:12 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Wyoming State Museum Discovery Trunk

Walt, and good day to you.

I haven't downloaded or printed the information compiled by the Wyoming
Museum.  I have skimmed the Mountain Man Discovery Trunk.

Did you, too, find it interesting that under the Mountain Man's "outfit,"
that

(1) in his moccasins he stuffed white ash leaves as a rattlesnake repellent,
(2)  in his pouchy shirtfront he stored bread and johnnycakes, and
(3)  he carried a waterproof deer bladder to keep his gun's lock dry

Just goes to show, friends, you can be a part of this list for years and not
have heard it all.

Dick Summers

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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:01:59 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]

Am I mistaken, but couldn't a lot of running around looking for chemicals be
avoided here as just using some iron filings would make for a good mordant?

Longshot

"Longshot's Rendezvous Homepage"
http://members.aol.com/lodgepole/longshot.html

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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:40:26 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]

> Am I mistaken, but couldn't a lot of running around looking for chemicals
be
>  avoided here as just using some iron filings would make for a good mordant?

Actually, it's easier than that.  Walnut hull dye is supposed to be
self-mordanting.....hence, nothing else is required.


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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:32:47 -0400
From: Bob Spencer <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls

>Actually, it's easier than that.  Walnut hull dye is supposed to be
>self-mordanting.....hence, nothing else is required.

Amen.

From 1669, as quoted by Adrosko in "Natural Dyes and Home Dyeing," 1971:
"Shreds of stuff made by the English planters of cotton and wool, put up to
shew the colour, which was only dyed with the bark of a kind of
walnut-tree, called by the planters the butter-nut-tree,the kernel of that
sort of walnut being very oily, whence they are called butter-nuts. They
dyed it only with the decoction of that bark, without allum or copperas, as
they said."

Adrosko also says, "Thomas Cooper, in 1815, stated that usually the green
hulls or rinds of the walnut were used for dyeing browns. The roots' inner
bark--sometimes referred to as walnut bark--was also used, even though it
was less potent than the rind. Since no mordants were needed for walnut and
butternut dyeing, the vegetable material could be boiled for a certain
period and the wetted cloth dipped until the desired color had been
achieved."

Bob

Bob Spencer <[e-mail]>
Louisville, KY
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html



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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:43:05 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: (no subject)

Hey, here's a link to a site on the first fort on the Missouri before Osage

Rick Petzoldt

http://www.newstribune.com/stories/060200/sta_0602000035.asp

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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:21:44 -0500
From: "Wefarmasmidgen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Walnut hull mordant

For wool and leather, it has been my experience that walnut hulls (not
shells) need no additional mordant to obtain and maintain color; the depth
of the color depends on the amount of hulls used as well as the time hulls
are cooked.   I don't know about cotton as I've never tried it on cotton.
Protein fibers (animals) take dyes differently from bast (plant) fibers.
Boil the hulls until you get the color desired and then strain off the
liquid.  Put the material in the hot liquid and "cook" it for a time at
about 180 degrees.  Your material will be darker when wet than when dry.  If
it is not dark enough the first time, repeat the process.

Sally Bridgham at Wefarmasmidgen
in Beautiful Southwestern Wisconsin
[e-mail]




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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:47:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: MtMan-List: More on Beaver

Detroit Free Press, Wed., 06-07-00, p.5A.

"DON'T MESS WITH THE BEAV:"

"Sam[antha] Pshyshlak said Tuesday that her really big Newfoundland dogs
Bonnie and Billy were attacked by one really angry beaver, pinning them
against a fence.

"I never thought beavers were capable of that, Pshyshlak said from her
Manitoba farm 60 miles north of Winnipeg.  I've lost all respect for
beavers."

"Pshyshlak said the animal that attacked her dogs weighed about 30
pounds.  Her dogs weigh 200 pounds each."


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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:56:00 -0700
From: Randal J Bublitz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: More on Beaver

LOST RESPECT??????   a 30# beaver cowing two 200# dogs....this earns my
respect....GO BEAVERS!!!!     hardtack

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Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:38:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Susan Gilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: More on Beaver

On Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:56:00 -0700, Randal J Bublitz wrote:

>LOST RESPECT??????   a 30# beaver cowing two 200# dogs....this earns
my
>respect....GO BEAVERS!!!!     hardtack

Amen!  Our neighbor has a 120lb german shepherd that chases everything
smaller than it is.  Has terrorized the area for years.  Last fall the dog
chased and cornered a beaver down the hill from us at the river.  Took over
200 stitches to close up the slashes on the muzzel and ears of that dog.
Dog refuses to go down to the river now...

Sue Gilbert
6 Beaver Camp


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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:13:27 -0500
From: "jdearing" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #568

> Does anyone know where I can buy an approximately 10 x 8 foot used tent
> suitable for rendezvous?
> Or I would like plans to make my own tent.  What type of material is most
> authentic?
> PS What are the best types of wood, available in Minnesota, for starting
> fires with friction? (I tried willow for the stick and Basswood? for the
> fireboard with no luck.)
>
> Thank you, Abe
>
Well Abe, the best thing I can tell you about buying used tents is to look
around
at some of the bigger events.  A short wall, 18"-24",walls 9' X 9' square
works
out well, is easy to put up by one's self, and is period correct for most
time periods
while providing plenty of room for a couple of people and gear.

Friction fires hmmmm, lots of work to learn, but a reliable method when
mastered.
Check out the book Northern Bushcraft by Mors Kochanski. Good book on all
sorts
of skills.


Here are a couple of messages from another list that might explain a few of
the workings
of the bowdrill.

1. First after having started the hole and notch flatten off the busy
end of the spindle (part facing down) and then shave some off on the
sides at the bottom of the spindle so that there is no side wall
pressure.  This one thing will work wonders.  It has to do with the idea
that the outside ring of the spindle is what is really in contact with
the fireboard and is the real creator of the coal.

2. Start pumping slowly at first and then faster and when you have had
some smoke coming out for a little while push down a little harder and
pump hard for 20-30 strokes. Stop now and look down in the notch there
should be some darkish colored powder and maybe some smoke coming out of
it.  Take a breath and now slowly and gently blow on the coal until it
glows red or orange. Now you can put it in your tinder bundle. (I like
to keep a piece of cardboard of bark under the notch and then transfer
the coal to the tinder by that way because you won't crush the tinder in
the process or get it wrapped up in the spindle.

One other tip is to make more of a U shaped notch than a V because it
gives the coal more room to collect and grow. Once again, I'll say some
time its the little things that make huge differences.  You may be
surprised.  Sometimes it is also your choice of wood.  Make sure you do
the finger nail test


I recently saw Mark Morey of the recently mentioned Deep Wilds school
actually
drill out (with the point of his knife) a conical depression in the bottom
of
his fire spindle.  His explanation was basically the same as yours, but I
have found that the improvement lasts longer than merely flattening the end
because, as it wears away,  the end of the spindle does not become bluntly
rounded as quickly.

> Does any one know any good hand socket lubricants for a bow drill fire
> starter?  I know various animal bi-products can be used, but is there
> any thing else, like from plants?

In a real pinch, you can use a leaf for lubrication.  Some will tell
you it can't (or shouldn't) be done, because the moisture causes the
wood to swell.  Try it.  I have and it works, although (in my experience)
it won't work very long before it grinds away (but with good form and
sets, you shouldn't need all that long).  I've had better luck with
less porous woods and harder, denser leaves like holly.

Pine pitch has worked fairly well for me, at least with harder wood
sockets.  It seems to soak into cedar as it heats up and lose its
effectiveness.

Never tried raw fat or tallow, but I'd think that would work as well.

Once on a whim I packed the socket with a pinch of some very fine
talc-like dust (it made me think of graphite powder) which seemed to
work somewhat.  Tried it again another time, another place, and that
dust, although it seemed similar, really caused a lot of drag.  Last
weekend I came across some deposits of coal near a river... wish I
had thought of it then, but maybe that could be ground up fine and
used as a lube.  How about soapstone dust?

I've never used bone, but I have a naturally shaped quartzite cobble
that is shaped perfectly for a ready-made low-friction socket (no
lubrication required), and I have a bashed piece of some stone that
may be chert (or something similar) that is shaped sort of like an
orange wedge; the sharp edge serves to abrade the notch while a pit
pecked into the side lets it double as the socket as well.

Any green leaf can be used.  However you are best to use leaves that are
waxy in appearance such as holly, sycamore, thistle etc.

>I haven't yet gotten a fire with my sugar maple bow drill set, but I've
> only worked on it a couple times. I got lots of smoke and filled the
> notch about halfway with dust before my handhold started catching( I was
> just using nose grease and earwax). The dust was hard, not at all soft,
> almost like charcoal. I thought this was cool, cuz the cedar dust is so
> soft.

What is the consistency of the dust in terms of individual grains? Is it
fiberous?
Plate like? Or very small grained like cedar? This makes a difference from
the
standpoint of what kind of pressure and other technique variables you use to
actually get the dust to light and stay lit. If Sugar Maple is anything like
Red
Maple it's important to back off on the pressure, increase the speed for
awhile
and try to get some smaller grained dust to come off that will stay lit. I
don't
know. It's just a suggestion.

My favorite material for bowdrill sets are tree roots, especially
cottonwood roots, but other roots work well too.  You can get spoiled
quickly working with the roots; it is pretty hard to go wrong with them.
I'm sure the roots would work well for the fire plow too.

Check the driftwood piles along the rivers.  That is the best source for
root materials.

Sorry for the long post. Due to the rash of virus's floating around, I
preferred to not send this as an attachment.
J.D.





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Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 21:07:59 -0600
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

Hello the list,

Does anyone have experience with wedge tents?  I've been thinking about
getting one.

I'm interested in sizes, bell back or no, one door or openinging both ends,
handsewn grommet holes or no hole in the top, etc, etch.

Looking forward to your replies,

Allen Hall in Fort Hall Country


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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:26:36 -0500
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

Allen
I have had several and sold them all.    I found them have good floor =
space,but not enough headroom except right under the ridge pole.  I had =
one that was truly huge and still found it confining.  I realize that I =
am a very large person, but others said the same thing.  I would not =
have another except for a pack in shelter with just enough room to sit =
up in.  They are very easy to set up, however.
YMOS
Lanney


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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 23:36:07 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

I have the Panther Giant Bell Wedge... and found it to suffice. Lots of
floor space, good height (I am 6'4"), BUT... the one drawback was not alot
of "wall" space for storage.  The "bell" had considerable storage area
available. Used it for weekend and up to 4 day events. Liked it ok, but my
12x14 wall was great :)

Ad Miller


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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:44:47 -0700
From: "Mark Clodi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BFD19B.25A6FCE0
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have a couple 7x7x7 footers, with doors in both ends. They set up =
incredibly easy and do not require much in the way of ropes/poles.  =
Before this I used a huge tipi, of course there is no comparison of head =
room/space between the two types. HOWEVER, I must say being able to pack =
up a wedge tent and poles into a small package really is more of a =
benefit (right now) than having the space.  For a longer camp I think =
the hassle of a tipi is worth it, for a weekend the wedge tents rule and =
right now I do a lot more camping on the weekends than for a week at a =
shot.=20

The really good part about the way things are working now is that =
eventually I WILL want to lug the tipi to all the camps and having a =
spare wedge which I can set up to hold 'visitors', gear or as a kind of =
fly will be really nice.

Mark
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Allen Hall=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 8:07 PM
  Subject: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents


  Hello the list,

  Does anyone have experience with wedge tents?  I've been thinking =
about
  getting one.

  I'm interested in sizes, bell back or no, one door or openinging both =
ends,
  handsewn grommet holes or no hole in the top, etc, etch.

  Looking forward to your replies,

  Allen Hall in Fort Hall Country


  ----------------------
  hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

- ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BFD19B.25A6FCE0
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2722.2800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Helvetica 55 Roman" size=3D2>I have a couple 7x7x7 =
footers, with=20
doors in both ends. They set up incredibly easy and do not require much =
in the=20
way of ropes/poles.  Before this I used a huge tipi, of course =
there is no=20
comparison of head room/space between the two types. HOWEVER, I must say =
being=20
able to pack up a wedge tent and poles into a small package really is =
more of a=20
benefit (right now) than having the space.  For a longer camp I =
think the=20
hassle of a tipi is worth it, for a weekend the wedge tents rule and =
right now I=20
do a lot more camping on the weekends than for a week at a=20
shot. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Helvetica 55 Roman" size=3D2>The really good part =
about the way=20
things are working now is that eventually I WILL want to lug the tipi to =
all the=20
camps and having a spare wedge which I can set up to hold 'visitors', =
gear or as=20
a kind of fly will be really nice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Helvetica 55 Roman" size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" title=[e-mail]>Allen =
Hall</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 08, 2000 =
8:07=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Wedge =
Tents</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Hello the list,<BR><BR>Does anyone have experience with =
wedge=20
  tents?  I've been thinking about<BR>getting one.<BR><BR>I'm =
interested in=20
  sizes, bell back or no, one door or openinging both ends,<BR>handsewn =
grommet=20
  holes or no hole in the top, etc, etch.<BR><BR>Looking forward to your =

  replies,<BR><BR>Allen Hall in Fort Hall=20
  Country<BR><BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xm=
ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 23:57:59 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

IMHO double-doors on any lodge, whether wedge, wall or pyramid are a great
thing to have on hot days..... not to mention the 'back' one can provide a
good escape route, night porthole, secluded access for a 'soiled-dove', etc
<EG>   Barney

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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 21:59:37 -0600
From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #568

I have a 10x12 that has a hole burned in the top where the stove pipe
went through. will sell for $100 plus shipping

Joe
Have a look at our web site @ www.dteworld.com/absarokawesterndesign/
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!

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Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:35:44 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

Started off life in the mountains in a 16' RK that has served me well from
back around 1975-6 to just a few years ago. I got tired of setting it up for
just a weekend and got a 10X10 wedge with double doors and 7' ridge. It has
an 8' dinning fly out the front and a floor piece. It is more than enough
for the wifemate and myself. We don't take that much stuff even to a week
long drive and dump. I cut a hole in it and put the requisite liner for a
stove pipe and have used it a few times hunting. The tent has proven to be a
godsend for an old timer like me. Sets up real quick in the rain. I like it
for the unquestioned authenticity for the RMFT time period and before and
though a wall tent would be more roomy, it would also be more of  a hassle
putting up and not look as right. I am thinking of having Fred Wright build
me a bell to put on the back or not as the case might warrant. I think an
extra fly to go over the tent would make it much more serviceable in warm
and cold weather. I have grommets at both ends for pole spikes to go up
through and had RK make it so that I could also run an extra long lodge pole
through the gable ends (to be supported by cross bucks at both ends if I
didn't have the ready cut tent poles with me.

I like my wedge tent just fine. Capt. L
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Hall" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 8:07 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents


> Hello the list,
>
> Does anyone have experience with wedge tents?  I've been thinking about
> getting one.
>
> I'm interested in sizes, bell back or no, one door or openinging both
ends,
> handsewn grommet holes or no hole in the top, etc, etch.
>
> Looking forward to your replies,
>
> Allen Hall in Fort Hall Country
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:51:52 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

What are the opinions on the historical accuracy of a pyramid tent (sometimes
called a "tepee tent" by oldtimers)?

I know that they've documented Parkman with one on the Plains in the 1840s,
though I haven't seen any documentation for their presence earlier.

The one I've got is a Panther Primitives 12x12 (probably too big for
accuracy, but good for elk camp.)  Would the purists among your number sneer
at such a set-up?

John R Sweet

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Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 08:52:02 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

  I also have two tipis and a French wedge of about 7x7x12 and love it.  Mostly
for weekends when the tipis are too much and with my tipi for storing of gear
and others.  Mine has a bell which is great for storage.  I do use a small wood
bed which cuts the bell in half for the walk way, but does give me under
storage for gear.

Linda Holley


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Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 07:03:28 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

Allen,
I will bring a Catalog with me to the fish camp, Tent Smith has allowed me
to be there rep. in the area, and they make about 20 diferent style's of
wedge tents.
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
>Date: Thu, Jun 8, 2000, 9:07 PM
>

>Hello the list,
>
>Does anyone have experience with wedge tents?  I've been thinking about
>getting one.
>
>I'm interested in sizes, bell back or no, one door or openinging both ends,
>handsewn grommet holes or no hole in the top, etc, etch.
>
>Looking forward to your replies,
>
>Allen Hall in Fort Hall Country
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 07:25:30 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

John,
I have been told that the "Pyramid" tent was originaly called the "Miners
tent" due to it's use during the california gold rush. I was also told that
it does not go back any further than 1840 which would be late rendezvous
period. Having said that I have no evidence one way or the other and would
also like to know. However having looked at drawings made by Catlin and
Miller I have seen Tipi's, wedge tents, wall tent's, and what looks to be a
lean to. I have been using a conical tent made by tentsmith which goes back
to the the french military in 1753, the conical is a true one pole tent. For
park and drops I use a  15'X24' slant wall Marquee which takes about the
same effort as putting up a lodge but has 2 poles which are 12' long instead
of 30'+, it gives me the same room as 2=20' lodges. Hey for a dog and pony
show, might as well have a circus tent.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents
>Date: Thu, Jun 8, 2000, 11:51 PM
>

>What are the opinions on the historical accuracy of a pyramid tent (sometimes
>called a "tepee tent" by oldtimers)?
>
>I know that they've documented Parkman with one on the Plains in the 1840s,
>though I haven't seen any documentation for their presence earlier.
>
>The one I've got is a Panther Primitives 12x12 (probably too big for
>accuracy, but good for elk camp.)  Would the purists among your number sneer
>at such a set-up?
>
>John R Sweet
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 07:41:07 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: AMM e-mail addresses

Gentelmen,
I am curently working on putting together a Data-base which would have all
the members names and addresses.
If you are curently on the list please contact me off the list at
[e-mail]
and send me the following information.
Name
address
amm number
E-mail address
phone no:
The information will remain confidential and will only be used in putting
together the history of the AMM.
YMOS
Ole # 718

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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:34:44 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

The purists among us would sneer at anything!
Most rendezvous allow the pyramid tent.  It looks correct and is certainly
easy to set up.  The "baker" and Whalen configurations are other tents that
are suspect to the narrow historical era of the Mountain Man period.
Certain forts that depict dates earlier than 1840 do not currently allow the
pyramid tent at gatherings on their property in connection with fort
activities.  The rule of thumb for these museums and living history centers
is two documented pieces of evidence for admission and use.  You have to
decide for yourself how much you intend to follow museum standards.

Larry Huber

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents


> What are the opinions on the historical accuracy of a pyramid tent
(sometimes
> called a "tepee tent" by oldtimers)?
>
> I know that they've documented Parkman with one on the Plains in the
1840s,
> though I haven't seen any documentation for their presence earlier.
>
> The one I've got is a Panther Primitives 12x12 (probably too big for
> accuracy, but good for elk camp.)  Would the purists among your number
sneer
> at such a set-up?
>
> John R Sweet
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

- ----------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:52:13 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

Allen,
    My first tent was a wedge tent.  I bought it many years ago and I still
use it today at public rendezvous.  It is a British infantry tent of the
revolutionary war period and it has a bell in back with 7ft headroom. I
bought it when I applied to attend an activity at Fort Snelling in
Minnesota.  At the time, only wedge and wall tents were allowed and they
were discouraged.  They expected voyagers to sleep under their canoes.  An
interesting note was that tipis were limited to 10 ft. in diameter and only
for those depicting Aboriginal Americans.  The Dakota of the region relied
on permanent villages of logs most of the year and carried their tipis by
canoe when they traveled.  Large lodges were rare except for the council
lodge.
The wedge is very comfy for one guy and his gear.  My daughter and her
teenage girlfriends used to occupy one of these when they accompanied my
wife and I on outings.  It fit them very well...but then they giggled and
talked all night and slept all morning!  Remember, THREE soldiers slept in
these things. It can be set up easily and quickly by one guy and if you are
attending an event where the visiting public wanders through camp at will,
the enclosed nature of the tent discourages exploration of your gear.  Those
tourists just love souvenirs!

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 8:07 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents


> Hello the list,
>
> Does anyone have experience with wedge tents?  I've been thinking about
> getting one.
>
> I'm interested in sizes, bell back or no, one door or openinging both
ends,
> handsewn grommet holes or no hole in the top, etc, etch.
>
> Looking forward to your replies,
>
> Allen Hall in Fort Hall Country
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:21:46 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

I also have a small bell wedge that I use primarily as a "storage" tent when
Mouse and I go to the larger, extended stay Ronnys (longer than 5 days).
However, when I do weekend (read 2-4 day events) by myself, I take the
wedge. It sets up with 3, 2" round poles, about 12 stakes, and no ropes, has
almost 7' head room (I am 6'4", so that is nice), a small bell on the back,
and I can set it up in 15 minutes by myself.  I can get my gear and sleeping
stuff in it no problem. I think it measures about 10' long (including
wedge), and about 6' or so wide. Plenty of room for just me.

All depends on what you are looking for, and for how many people and how
much gear...

Ad Miller


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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:28:35 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedge Tents

John,

I guess you have received enough info now to tell you that pyramid tents
really don't go back far enough to be accurate for a pre-1840 event. At
least that's how I read the info given and that is my "opinion" too. Now
that doesn't mean that you can't use one. There are plenty of events that
won't call you on it. But if your concerned about being authentic and
correct for a particular time period, the thing to do is research it and be
sure of your ground.

As to purists turning up their nose's, my buddy Crawdad and I were dang
proud to be able to borrow one to sleep in at the "Pacific Primitive"  last
year during our rainy one night stay, while on our way to the AMM Western in
Wyoming. <G> I remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:06:07 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: The Origin of Oxblood.......

People are always asking what is a period correct way to waterproof their
tarps. I just scanned a book entitled, "The Homestead Builder" by C.P. Dwyer.
 This was a followup book to his other. "The Cottage Builder" first published
in 1850.  Dwyer was an architect who actually went into the frontier to study
various types of homes which were being built by those going west.  He
published this info as a primer for use by future homesteaders.

This little chapter caught my eye.  It has to do with making blood cement for
a hearth for a fireplace, but its content is expanded into several other
usages.

"Procure, at a butcher's, a quantity of bullock's blood, and with one-tenth
of its weight of quicklime reduced to powder by sprinking water on it; mix up
the mass, which may be thinned if necessary by the addition of water.

It must be borne in mind that it is the albumen, or gelatin, of the blood
which is to be used.  The fibrin, or clot, is to be thrown out.

If mixed with sand and plastered over a base, it will make a blood cement
which will harden to an impervious layer and which will take a high polish.
It can also be used to line a chimney, floor a cellar, or line a cistern,
amking them impervious to vermin, and waterproof and hard.

Without the sand, it can be rubbed inro rough canvas giving an article
roughly equal to oilcloth, at a trifling of the expense.  It will only be
necessary to stretch the canvas tight on a frame and rub the composition well
into the cloth until the texture becomes invisible.

As a waterproof cover for the wagon, or as a cloak for the man, it will alike
make its utility felt.

Although bullock's blood is undoubtedly the best, yet any animal blood will
be found to an extent useful for the purpose, according to the muscular
development of the animal."

"The Homestead Builder"  C.P. Dwyer, Lyons Press reprint, ISBN #1-55821-728-2
Its main focus is the building of prairie homes by various means of
construction from materials available on a 1/2 section anywhere on the
frontier.

Dave Kanger

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------------------------------

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