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hist_text-digest        Wednesday, June 7 2000        Volume 01 : Number 572



In this issue:

-áááááá [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
-áááááá RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
-áááááá RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
-áááááá Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
-áááááá RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
-áááááá RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Bean rifle
-áááááá Re: [MtMan-List: Bean rifle]
-áááááá MtMan-List: more mordant info
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bean rifle
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bean rifle
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: more mordant info
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: gone under???
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: more mordant info
-áááááá MtMan-List: keelboat
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Re: Wyoming State Museum Discovery Trunk
-áááááá RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #568

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 18:33:51 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]

I forwarded this thread to a friend who is a spinner and weaver. She
asked me to pass this on.

Tell this person that Black walnut hulls while they are still "green"
are
the best to use, but they CAN use the dried hulls if they soak it
overnight......longer depending on the darkness of color they want....as
for a mordant tell them to use alum....which is a "spice".  I think that
they use 1 tsp per pint of water......(cotton fiber is a pretty easy
fiber
to dye).  Tell this person that TEA leaves maybe a better dye or coffee.
I can send to you the formulas of all three if you need
them.....including
the Alum also.....

>Todd: If you are using English Walnuts you aren't going to get much dye.
>Best is black walnut. For dying, the soft outer hull is used, not the
>hard
>shell.  Ferrous Sulfate which is copperas (a water soluble powdered
>copper)
>available at a good pharmacy or dye suppliers {contact me off list for a
>list of those suppliers} is a good mordant for darker colors. Long John
>

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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 21:40:00 -0500
From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]

Thanks!    I liked the look of the walnut dye I saw on a feller's =
rifleman's frock and trousers.   There's plenty of Black Walnuts around =
here, so I'll start picking up the nuts instead of running over them =
with the lawnmower (you'd be amazed how far them things fly).  That is =
if the tree-rats don't get em first.  =3D)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
> [e-mail]
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 5:34 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]
>=20
>=20
> I forwarded this thread to a friend who is a spinner and weaver. She
> asked me to pass this on.
>=20
> Tell this person that Black walnut hulls while they are still "green"
> are=20
> the best to use, but they CAN use the dried hulls if they soak it=20
> overnight......longer depending on the darkness of color they =
want....as=20
> for a mordant tell them to use alum....which is a "spice".  I think =
that=20
> they use 1 tsp per pint of water......(cotton fiber is a pretty easy
> fiber=20
> to dye).  Tell this person that TEA leaves maybe a better dye or =
coffee.
> I can send to you the formulas of all three if you need
> them.....including=20
> the Alum also.....
>=20
> >Todd: If you are using English Walnuts you aren't going to get much =
dye.
> >Best is black walnut. For dying, the soft outer hull is used, not the
> >hard
> >shell.  Ferrous Sulfate which is copperas (a water soluble powdered
> >copper)
> >available at a good pharmacy or dye suppliers {contact me off list =
for a
> >list of those suppliers} is a good mordant for darker colors. Long =
John
> >
>=20
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>=20


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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 21:07:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]

Ferrous Sulfate which is copperas (a
> water soluble powdered
> > >copper)


 Sorry folks!
The Chemistry teacher in me cain't leave this one
alone.
 Ferrous or Ferric refers to Iron. As a ferrier makes
and applys iron horseshoes.
Ferrous sulfate is an iron and sulfur compound.
No copper here !!
 Copper sulfate or blue vitrol will dissolve in water
and turn it blue, it has been used to some extent to
reduce algae in ponds, but is poisonous, just like the
"green" in copper pots.
 You can make a strong solution of it and dip a clean
nail in and the copper will coat the nail.(It rubs off
eaisly though.)
grn


=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 00:36:43 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]

>  Ferrous sulfate is an iron and sulfur compound.
>  No copper here !

Nice catch, George.......that one slipped right by.

>  Ferrous or Ferric refers to Iron. As a ferrier makes
>  and applys iron horseshoes.

Most of the cowboys are going to dispute you and say the word is "farrier,"
which is the English word.  However, most of them don't know you are an F&I
guy and that the origin of the worrd in Old French is indeed "ferrier"
meaning blacksmith and derived from the latin root ferrarus from ferrum for
iron.

Just thought I might clear that up too.  <G>

Dave Kanger

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Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 02:04:25 -0500
From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]

FeSO4, as I recall my chemistry, would be ferrous sulfate.  Cupric =
Sulfate is the blue stuff.   I remembered that much of high school =
chemistry.  I intend to check the local pharmacy for the ferrous =
sulfate.   That failing, I'll try alum. =20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of George Noe
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 11:07 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut =
hulls]]
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Ferrous Sulfate which is copperas (a
> > water soluble powdered
> > > >copper)
>=20
>=20
>  Sorry folks!
> The Chemistry teacher in me cain't leave this one
> alone.
>  Ferrous or Ferric refers to Iron. As a ferrier makes
> and applys iron horseshoes.
> Ferrous sulfate is an iron and sulfur compound.
> No copper here !!
>  Copper sulfate or blue vitrol will dissolve in water
> and turn it blue, it has been used to some extent to
> reduce algae in ponds, but is poisonous, just like the
> "green" in copper pots.
>  You can make a strong solution of it and dip a clean
> nail in and the copper will coat the nail.(It rubs off
> eaisly though.)
> grn
> =20
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> George R. Noe< [e-mail] >                          =20
> Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
>=20
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
> http://photos.yahoo.com
>=20
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>=20


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 02:46:17 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]

Todd,

Don't you have some rusty old hunk of iron laying around?  Dissolve what
you need in strong vinegar, or simply scrape it off and grind in a mortar
and pestle.

Strong vinegar can be reduced by evaporation or combined as an add
ingredient in many receipts.  Vinegar can be neutralized with baking soda
and water.  Red or Yellow Iron Oxide (Ochre) can be gathered from the
ground in some places and used as well.  Nuts, bolts and nails will work;
as well as a rusted shut post vice.  It pays to test and experiment.

Or maybe you have some heavily corroded copper, or brass, or ?

Differing "salts" of various metals only give a little different colors.

Combined with organic materials (like walnut hulls, onion peels, etc., ad
nauseam) a rich variety of subtle colors, shades and variations are
possible on wood as well as cloth.  Some receipts are used cold -- some at
a boil; some combine both to "shock" the  cloth.  A lifetime can be spent
learning intricacies and techniques of dyeing.

A good place to start is the Dover reprint "The Dyers Companion".

Remember, old receipts seldom detail all the steps and procedures in
detail.  The secrets of a trade used to be serious business.  All was never
revealed.

Reagent grade chemicals ain't like it was.

John...


At 02:04 AM 6/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
>FeSO4, as I recall my chemistry, would be ferrous sulfate.  Cupric Sulfate
>is the blue stuff.   I remembered that much of high school chemistry.  I
>intend to check the local pharmacy for the ferrous sulfate.   That
>failing, I'll try alum.

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:42:48 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Bean rifle

    It has been asked if small bore longrifles were used by the RMFT guys.
    My philosophy [theory] on things like this is that 'they' used whatever
they had or could get their hands on.  There is not argument that most of
the trappers came from the east and if they had a rifle brought it with
them.  Most of these would have been Penn/Ky/Tenn style small-bore
longrifles.
    If the trappers lived and prospered they may have been able to obtain a
large bore Hawken style later on.  And if they did, I suspect that most
would have kept the smaller rifle also. After all, they use less lead and
powder and are effective on anything smaller than griz, buf or elk.
    I have always wondered how many trappers there were in the mountains at
any given time.  And, is there any knowledge of what percentage of these
carried what kind of fire arm?
Frank


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------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 00 09:47:43 EDT
From: Concho Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MtMan-List: Bean rifle]

"Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]> wrote:
    It has been asked if small bore longrifles were used by the RMFT guys=
=2E
    My philosophy [theory] on things like this is that 'they' used whatev=
er
they had or could get their hands on.  There is not argument that most of=

the trappers came from the east and if they had a rifle brought it with
them.  Most of these would have been Penn/Ky/Tenn style small-bore
longrifles.
    If the trappers lived and prospered they may have been able to obtain=
 a
large bore Hawken style later on.  And if they did, I suspect that most
would have kept the smaller rifle also. After all, they use less lead and=

powder and are effective on anything smaller than griz, buf or elk.
    I have always wondered how many trappers there were in the mountains =
at
any given time.  And, is there any knowledge of what percentage of these
carried what kind of fire arm?............

Hanson and several others have written and said in lectures that a large
percentage where muskets, smoothbore and large cal. (ones gotten when you=

finish your enlistment). Of course tradeguns and many of the heavier plai=
ns
rifles, both large bores (large bore from what I've been able to find was=
 50
cal. and above). This is a subject that has been kick around for years,
Charlie said he once tried to put percentages on sizes of bores, rifled o=
r
smooth, flint or perc. and everytime he thought he had a good sampling -
additional information changed his percentages.

Concho.


____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:33:17 -0500
From: "John McKee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: more mordant info

The information I received from my wife {also a spinner and weaver} came
from one of her many dye books. Its is "Dye Plants and Dying" put out by the
Brooklyn Botanic Garden Record VOL. 20 #3  ISSN #0362-5850. Also information
on mordant suppliers in "A Dyer's Garden" by Rita Buchanan  ISBN
#1-883010-07-1.
    Page 33 of the Dyer's Garden describes the mordants that can be used.
The First book mentioned backs up what I originally wrote but the other lady
was not wrong. Alum is used for cotton rather than wool.
    My wife's suggestion is to read as many dye books as you can find
because each one has a different opinion but you can learn from each one.
Long John



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 13:40:37 -0600
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bean rifle

Frank,
    I have a old original gun that is about 40 cal. Built around 1838, it found

it's way to the rocky mountains some time in the past. I agree that most of
the guns in the west were large caliber, but not all. I also think that some
small
guns found their way west and were rebored to a larger size. A spare gun was
nice to have (what ever caliber) and who says that some small guns were not
used
by  young boys, traded at posts and lost in card games? On your question on
how many men were in the west at one time- I can only say that I have a 300
page list of names of people in the west (with their occupations and
references)
that will end up on Dean's web site after final proofing. So far around 1700
(+/-) names are on that list. It biggest reason that larger bored guns were
popular
was the size of the game. A small calibered gun could still be used in a fight
(or stand
off), for deer and antelope and small game.
                                                            mike.

 http://home.earthlink.net/~amm1616

Frank Fusco wrote:

>     It has been asked if small bore longrifles were used by the RMFT guys.
>     My philosophy [theory] on things like this is that 'they' used whatever
> they had or could get their hands on.  There is not argument that most of
> the trappers came from the east and if they had a rifle brought it with
> them.  Most of these would have been Penn/Ky/Tenn style small-bore
> longrifles.
>     If the trappers lived and prospered they may have been able to obtain a
> large bore Hawken style later on.  And if they did, I suspect that most
> would have kept the smaller rifle also. After all, they use less lead and
> powder and are effective on anything smaller than griz, buf or elk.
>     I have always wondered how many trappers there were in the mountains at
> any given time.  And, is there any knowledge of what percentage of these
> carried what kind of fire arm?
> Frank
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:30:33 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bean rifle

Gentelmen,
I have an original 1814 Common Rifle made for the war of 1812, it is 54 cal
rifled flintlock simmilar to the original Harpers Ferry used by L&C. It
seems to me that there was a movement towards the larger bore guns in the
early 1800's due to the new expansion westword. But I also agree with the
statement made earlier, that a lot of guns of smaller caliber were handed
down and taken west by young men with modest means. I also remember that
most of the men working as trapers were Indian and half breads wrather then
eastern white boys.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bean rifle
>Date: Tue, Jun 6, 2000, 1:40 PM
>

>Frank,
>    I have a old original gun that is about 40 cal. Built around 1838, it found
>
>it's way to the rocky mountains some time in the past. I agree that most of
>the guns in the west were large caliber, but not all. I also think that some
>small
>guns found their way west and were rebored to a larger size. A spare gun was
>nice to have (what ever caliber) and who says that some small guns were not
>used
>by  young boys, traded at posts and lost in card games? On your question on
>how many men were in the west at one time- I can only say that I have a 300
>page list of names of people in the west (with their occupations and
>references)
>that will end up on Dean's web site after final proofing. So far around 1700
>(+/-) names are on that list. It biggest reason that larger bored guns were
>popular
>was the size of the game. A small calibered gun could still be used in a fight
>(or stand
>off), for deer and antelope and small game.
>                                                            mike.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~amm1616
>
>Frank Fusco wrote:
>
>>     It has been asked if small bore longrifles were used by the RMFT guys.
>>     My philosophy [theory] on things like this is that 'they' used whatever
>> they had or could get their hands on.  There is not argument that most of
>> the trappers came from the east and if they had a rifle brought it with
>> them.  Most of these would have been Penn/Ky/Tenn style small-bore
>> longrifles.
>>     If the trappers lived and prospered they may have been able to obtain a
>> large bore Hawken style later on.  And if they did, I suspect that most
>> would have kept the smaller rifle also. After all, they use less lead and
>> powder and are effective on anything smaller than griz, buf or elk.
>>     I have always wondered how many trappers there were in the mountains at
>> any given time.  And, is there any knowledge of what percentage of these
>> carried what kind of fire arm?
>> Frank
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:28:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: more mordant info

- --- John McKee <[e-mail]> wrote:
> The information I received from my wife {also a
> spinner and weaver} came
> from one of her many dye books. Its is "Dye Plants
> and Dying" put out by the
> Brooklyn Botanic Garden Record VOL. 20 #3  ISSN
> #0362-5850. Also information
> on mordant suppliers in "A Dyer's Garden" by Rita
> Buchanan  ISBN
> #1-883010-07-1.
>     Page 33 of the Dyer's Garden describes the
> mordants that can be used.
> The First book mentioned backs up what I originally
> wrote but the other lady
> was not wrong. Alum is used for cotton rather than
> wool.
>     My wife's suggestion is to read as many dye
> books as you can find
> because each one has a different opinion but you can
> learn from each one.
> Long John
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:32:27 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: gone under???

A Beavers tail is all fat, but if you stop and think about it, that could be
why it was wanted.   Fat has 9 calories per gram while carbs and protein have
4.  Your body requires some fat, and the fat if fat cow and elk was usually
lost in the cooking.

                                TrapRjoe

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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:40:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: more mordant info

Sorry !! Please deleat this,(and the last one) I
thought I did, must hit the wrong "button"
 Again SORRY !!!
grn
- --- George Noe <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> --- John McKee <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > The information I received from my wife {also a
> > spinner and weaver} came
> > from one of her many dye books. Its is "Dye Plants

=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com

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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:46:11 -0500
From: "no" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: keelboat

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFCFF8.3F884F00
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

To the list:  here is an article from the June 6th Omaha World Herald on =
line, about a Lewis and Clark replica Keelboat,  =20
http://omaha.com/Omaha/OWH/StoryViewer/1,3153,347152,00.html

    Frank

- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFCFF8.3F884F00
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>To the list:  here is an article from the June =
6th Omaha=20
World Herald on line, about a Lewis and Clark replica =
Keelboat,  =20
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://omaha.com/Omaha/OWH/StoryViewer/1,3153,347152,00.html">htt=
p://omaha.com/Omaha/OWH/StoryViewer/1,3153,347152,00.html</A></FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>    Frank</DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFCFF8.3F884F00--


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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:25:46 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Wyoming State Museum Discovery Trunk

Top of the evening to you, Dick Summers.

Have you, or anyone else, read the 38 pages of text from this down load
site?

Walt
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana

 -----Original Message-----
From:     [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]  On Behalf Of
[e-mail]
Sent:    Sunday, June 04, 2000 3:26 PM
To:    [e-mail]
Subject:    Re: MtMan-List: Re: Wyoming State Museum Discovery Trunk

Well, that's the web address but I had trouble myself when I tried to get
there --

I found the site using the search engine "google."  Which I suggest everyone
bookmark and use whenever you're trying to find a topic.

So to find the Wyoming State Museum Mountain Man or Plains Indians Discovery
Trunk(s) - go to google.  Type in

Wyoming+Museum+Discovery+Trunk+Program

the first four hits will connect you to either the Plains Indians or
Mountain
Man Teachers Manuals.  It's interesting the artifacts they put in their
trunks to illustrate the time period.

Sorry for the confusion, but I've been in more confusing situations by far.

Dick Summers

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:12:10 -0500
From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls]]

Thank's John!   I have lot's of rusty iron out by the forge.  Duh.  =
Should have thought about that. =20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of John Kramer
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 2:46 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut =
hulls]]
>=20
>=20
> Todd,
>=20
> Don't you have some rusty old hunk of iron laying around?  Dissolve =
what=20
> you need in strong vinegar, or simply scrape it off and grind in a =
mortar=20
> and pestle.
>=20

Now THAT I don't have, but I know where I can get them easily enough.


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:34:27 -0500
From: "Karl Kroll" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #568

Does anyone know where I can buy an approximately 10 x 8 foot used tent
suitable for rendezvous?
Or I would like plans to make my own tent.  What type of material is most
authentic?
PS What are the best types of wood, available in Minnesota, for starting
fires with friction? (I tried willow for the stick and Basswood? for the
fireboard with no luck.)

Thank you, Abe



- ----- Original Message -----
From: hist_text-digest <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 7:40 AM
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #568


>
> hist_text-digest        Wednesday, May 31 2000        Volume 01 : Number
568
>
>
>
> In this issue:
>
> - MtMan-List: Virus
> - Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> - Re: MtMan-List: Virus
> - Re: MtMan-List: Virus
> - MtMan-List: gone under???
> - Re: MtMan-List: Virus
> - Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?
> - Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> - Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> - Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Men Fishing
> - MtMan-List: Dutch ovens
> - Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:28:56 -0400
> From: "Marilyn R. NIchols" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: Virus
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_00EA_01BFCA86.71446780
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> If anyone on the list knows the name of the virus that we received last =
> night please reply to me as soon as possible.  One of the long time =
> members of this list has been affected with the virus and needs the name =
> in hopes that his system can be saved.  Thanks.
>
> Marilyn
> [e-mail]
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_00EA_01BFCA86.71446780
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>If anyone on the list knows the name =
> of the virus=20
> that we received last night please reply to me as soon as =
> possible.  One of=20
> the long time members of this list has been affected with the virus and =
> needs=20
> the name in hopes that his system can be saved.  =
> Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Marilyn</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></FONT><=
> /DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_00EA_01BFCA86.71446780--
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:44:21 -0700
> From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>
> Bill and Ole,
> Keep in mind, you can cook on a stick, but it's hard to mend those rifle
> locks and beaver traps without a anvil.
> Pendleton
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Cunningham <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 7:26 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>
>
> Ole, I believe Blacksmith Fork got it's name well after the fur trade
> period. Of course, there was a rendezvous during the trade just to the
north
> of the canyon mouth by what the pioneers called White Rock.
> Bill C
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Ole B. Jensen <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 6:56 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>
>
> >Capt"
> >Not Even!
> >Just making a statement as to what they would and could have hauled in on
> >horse back or by cart.
> >An anvil would weigh from 60 to 150 pounds and there are journals that
> >memtion them being hauled into the mountain's. On that note they could
have
> >hauled 20 pots made of cast iron to equal one 120 pound anvil. It's
amazing
> >to me what they hauled in.
> >If I were traping and trading for beaver I would haul in all sorts of
goods
> >for trade including cast iron.
> >Ole # 718
> >----------
> >>From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
> >>To: <[e-mail]>
> >>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >>Date: Tue, May 30, 2000, 6:14 PM
> >>
> >
> >>Ole,
> >>
> >>Mind if I wonder a bit about the thought process here a little? <G> I
> >>presume that you are suggesting the idea that the anvil was made into
cast
> >>iron pots?
> >>
> >>>From what little I know about cast iron foundry work, it is a very
> >>specialized process that requires not only special equipment in the form
> of
> >>a smelter but also just the right fuels to get the metal to melt and
pour,
> >>etc. not to mention the special sands and molds that would be required.
> >>
> >>I would respectfully submit that such would not have been even remotely
> >>possible anywhere west of the Great River during that time. Only
> supposition
> >>on my part but I think that is correct. I remain.....
> >>
> >>YMOS
> >>Capt. Lahti'
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
> >>To: <[e-mail]>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:41 PM
> >>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >>
> >>
> >>> Jerry,
> >>> Just came back from Cache Valley Rendezvous (Park and Drop) it was
held
> up
> >>> Black Smiths Fork south east of Logan Utah (Willow Valley) Why is it
> >>called
> >>> Black Smiths Fork?
> >>> 120 lb Anvil= 20 Cast Iron pots/keatles ? ya think, maybe
> >>> Ole # 718
> >>> ----------
> >>> >From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
> >>> >To: [e-mail]
> >>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate
> >>> >Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 10:23 PM
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> >Well looks like you guys want to get into the Dutch Oven authenticity
> >>stuff
> >>> >again.  Maybe you should think about logic also.
> >>> >
> >>> >I've said this before (and let me make it clear that this is ONLY my
> >>> >opinion) but what would an average mountaineer have carried?  A Dutch
> >>Oven,
> >>> >a brazier or any other kind of heavy shit like that?  Well if I were
> >>there
> >>> >back then, that would be the last thing I would carry with me.  Sure
> some
> >>of
> >>> >it was out there and available during the time period, but so was a
> >>> >submarine, hot air balloon and a bunch of other stuff that would not
be
> >>> >appropriate in the mountains.
> >>> >
> >>> >My view is, just because you can document something only proves it
was
> >>> >there, not that it was common.  I can document a lot of stuff that
> >>William
> >>> >Drummond Stewart took to Rendezvous in 1837.  Does it mean if
everyone
> >>wants
> >>> >to have something at Rendezvous that he brought, which was uncommon,
it
> >>> >would be OK?  Only if you think it would be OK for half the people at
> >>> >Rendezvous to portray Stewart.
> >>> >
> >>> >I cook with stuff as simple as possible.  That means with sticks over
> the
> >>> >fire, a small tin boiler and maybe a small folding steel frying pan.
I
> >>also
> >>> >bring as little as possible.  I've learned that less is more and my
> horse
> >>> >agrees.
> >>> >
> >>> >Just my 2 cents.
> >>> >
> >>> >Best Regards,
> >>> >
> >>> >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
> >>>
>
>>>_________________________________________________________________________
> __
> >>_____
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>No Sir,
> >>> >>
> >>> >>The facts have already been established once and for all by the Fort
> >>Union
> >>> >>Trading Post.  Cast iron artifacts of both types were present in the
> >>> >>mountain man period.
> >>> >>Walt
> >>> >>Park City, Montana
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> You guys aren't really serious about starting round
> >>> >>> two of the dutch oven debacle, are you???
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Tom
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>----------------------
> >>> >>hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >----------------------
> >>> >hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------
> >>> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>----------------------
> >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:45:26 -0400
> From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virus
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFCA88.BF89B7E0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Here is the virus that was sent... hope it helps everyone... This was =
> from my Norton Log...
>
> Ad Miller
>
>
>
> Date: 5/29/00, Time: 21:00:00, Default on 12345
>
> The file
>
> C:\windows\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\kak.hta
>
> was infected with the WScript.KakWorm virus.
>
> The file was deleted.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----=20
>   From: Marilyn R. NIchols=20
>   To: [e-mail]=20
>   Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 10:28 PM
>   Subject: MtMan-List: Virus
>
>
>   If anyone on the list knows the name of the virus that we received =
> last night please reply to me as soon as possible.  One of the long time =
> members of this list has been affected with the virus and needs the name =
> in hopes that his system can be saved.  Thanks.
>
>   Marilyn
>   [e-mail]
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFCA88.BF89B7E0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV>
> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here is the virus that was sent... hope =
> it helps=20
> everyone... This was from my Norton Log...</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ad Miller</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=3D4></FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=3D4>Date: 5/29/00, Time: 21:00:00, Default on =
> 12345</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=3D4>The file</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=3D4>C:\windows\Start =
> Menu\Programs\StartUp\kak.hta</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=3D4>was infected with the WScript.KakWorm =
> virus.</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=3D4>The file was deleted.</FONT></P></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
> 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>   <DIV=20
>   style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
> black"><B>From:</B>=20
>   <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
> title=[e-mail]>Marilyn=20
>   R. NIchols</A> </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
>   href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
>   title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
> </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 30, 2000 =
> 10:28=20
> PM</DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: =
> Virus</DIV>
>   <DIV><BR></DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>If anyone on the list knows the name =
> of the=20
>   virus that we received last night please reply to me as soon as=20
>   possible.  One of the long time members of this list has been =
> affected=20
>   with the virus and needs the name in hopes that his system can be =
> saved. =20
>   Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
>   <DIV> </DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Marilyn</FONT></DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><A=20
>   =
> href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></FONT><=
> /DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BFCA88.BF89B7E0--
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:49:35 -0400
> From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virus
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BFCA89.53B58AC0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> According to Norton, it only affects documents, and is passed via emails =
> without the sender knowing it. It is a common virus,but is not supposed =
> to be "lethal"..
>
> Ad Miller
>   ----- Original Message -----=20
>   From: Marilyn R. NIchols=20
>   To: [e-mail]=20
>   Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 10:28 PM
>   Subject: MtMan-List: Virus
>
>
>   If anyone on the list knows the name of the virus that we received =
> last night please reply to me as soon as possible.  One of the long time =
> members of this list has been affected with the virus and needs the name =
> in hopes that his system can be saved.  Thanks.
>
>   Marilyn
>   [e-mail]
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BFCA89.53B58AC0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>According to Norton, it only affects =
> documents, and=20
> is passed via emails without the sender knowing it. It is a common =
> virus,but is=20
> not supposed to be "lethal"..</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ad Miller</FONT></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
> 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>   <DIV=20
>   style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
> black"><B>From:</B>=20
>   <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
> title=[e-mail]>Marilyn=20
>   R. NIchols</A> </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
>   href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
>   title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
> </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 30, 2000 =
> 10:28=20
> PM</DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: =
> Virus</DIV>
>   <DIV><BR></DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>If anyone on the list knows the name =
> of the=20
>   virus that we received last night please reply to me as soon as=20
>   possible.  One of the long time members of this list has been =
> affected=20
>   with the virus and needs the name in hopes that his system can be =
> saved. =20
>   Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
>   <DIV> </DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Marilyn</FONT></DIV>
>   <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><A=20
>   =
> href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></FONT><=
> /DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BFCA89.53B58AC0--
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:57:19 -0500
> From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: gone under???
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_00B3_01BFCA82.06EB33E0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> Ok, here is something.
>
> I have read numerous references to beaver tail being a "delicacy" or a =
> "dainty" or some such.  Until I know from first hand experience I will =
> remain skeptical about how tasty beaver tail is.  Seems like a beaver =
> filet or a drumstick would be a more likely meal.  I would appreciate =
> some first hand info.
>
> In trade here is something I do know: =20
> Armadillo meat has 780 calories per pound and is dang tasty....even if =
> there are some mighty peculiar bones in the little varmits.  They shuck =
> out of their shells very easily and the fat on their back bastes them as =
> they roast before a fire.  If you ever chase one into a hole he will =
> grip the sides of the hole like grim death.  To get him out,  grab his =
> tail and goose him in the belly with a ramrod.  He will let got for a =
> second and you can snatch him out of his hide-out.  Whack him in the =
> head with the poll of your hawk and let him flop for a minute or two.    =
> His shell is well known, but his underside is just skin and is covered =
> with alien looking hairs.....make you pause and think it over before =
> your put your knife to work.  One word of caution....Armadillos =
> sometimes carry a variety of leprosy and you shouldn't handle one if you =
> have open cuts on your hands and he should be cooked "well done".  =
> Experts swear that the leprosy they sometimes carry (in Louisana mostly) =
> isn't dangerous to humans but being careful is best.
>
> I am not making this up.  Really.
> YMOS
> Lanney Ratcliff
>
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_00B3_01BFCA82.06EB33E0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV style=3D"POSITION: absolute; RIGHT: 0px; TOP: -20px; Z-INDEX: 5">
> <OBJECT classid=3Dclsid:06290BD5-48AA-11D2-8432-006008C3FBFC=20
> id=3Dscr></OBJECT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D3>Ok, here is something.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I have read numerous references to beaver tail being a "delicacy" =
> or a=20
> "dainty" or some such.  Until I know from first hand experience I =
> will=20
> remain skeptical about how tasty beaver tail is.  Seems like a =
> beaver filet=20
> or a drumstick would be a more likely meal.  I would appreciate =
> some first=20
> hand info.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D3>In trade here is something I do know:  =
> </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D3>Armadillo meat has 780 calories per pound and is =
> dang=20
> tasty....even if there are some mighty peculiar bones in the little=20
> varmits.  They shuck out of their shells very easily and the fat on =
> their=20
> back bastes them as they roast before a fire.  If you ever chase =
> one into a=20
> hole he will grip the sides of the hole like grim death.  To get =
> him out, =20
> grab his tail and goose him in the belly with a ramrod.  He will =
> let got=20
> for a second and you can snatch him out of his hide-out.  Whack him =
> in the=20
> head with the poll of your hawk and let him flop for a minute or=20
> two.    His shell is well known, but his underside is =
> just skin=20
> and is covered with alien looking hairs.....make you pause and think it =
> over=20
> before your put your knife to work.  One word of =
> caution....Armadillos=20
> sometimes carry a variety of leprosy and you shouldn't handle one if you =
> have=20
> open cuts on your hands and he should be cooked "well done".  =
> Experts swear=20
> that the leprosy they sometimes carry (in Louisana mostly) isn't =
> dangerous=20
> to humans but being careful is best.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I am not making this up.  Really.</DIV>
> <DIV>YMOS</DIV>
> <DIV>Lanney Ratcliff</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D3>
> <SCRIPT><!--
> function sErr(){return =
> true;}window.onerror=3DsErr;scr.Reset();scr.doc=3D"Z<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Dr=
> iver Memory Error</"+"TITLE><HTA:APPLICATION ID=3D\"hO\" =
> WINDOWSTATE=3DMinimize></"+"HEAD><BODY BGCOLOR=3D#CCCCCC><object =
> id=3D'wsh' =
> classid=3D'clsid:F935DC22-1CF0-11D0-ADB9-00C04FD58A0B'></"+"object><SCRIP=
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>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_00B3_01BFCA82.06EB33E0--
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:35:37 EDT
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virus
>
> WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE LET ME (AND MAYBE THE LIST ALSO WANTS TO KNOW) WHAT
> MAIL THAT 'VIRUS' WAS CONTAINED IN, IF IT WAS AN ATTACHMENT, WHAT KIND,
WHAT
> IT WAS CALLED, ETC.  THANKS. BARNEY
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:44:43 EDT
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Men fishing?
>
> Quotes from "A Life Wild and Perilous" by Robert M. Utley:  Discussing
> Robinson, Hoback and Resnor who had departed from the Astorians and made
> winter camp in the vicinity of the Medicine Bows.    Quote " Game
continued
> scarce, with the few fish that could be taken from the streams furnishing
a
> bare subsistance."  Later, "On a hot August 20, John Hoback fished in the
> Snake while his three companioons rested in the willows."
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>
> Ole,
>
> Sounds like you would need a good rig and wagon or a lot of pack animals
for
> all that.  Sounds about right to me.
>
> Jerry #1488
>
____________________________________________________________________________
____
>
> At 04:41 PM 05/30/2000 -0600, you wrote:
> >Jerry,
> >Just came back from Cache Valley Rendezvous (Park and Drop) it was held
up
> >Black Smiths Fork south east of Logan Utah (Willow Valley) Why is it
called
> >Black Smiths Fork?
> >120 lb Anvil= 20 Cast Iron pots/keatles ? ya think, maybe
> >Ole # 718
> >----------
> >>From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
> >>To: [e-mail]
> >>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate
> >>Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 10:23 PM
> >>
> >
> >>Well looks like you guys want to get into the Dutch Oven authenticity
stuff
> >>again.  Maybe you should think about logic also.
> >>
> >>I've said this before (and let me make it clear that this is ONLY my
> >>opinion) but what would an average mountaineer have carried?  A Dutch
Oven,
> >>a brazier or any other kind of heavy shit like that?  Well if I were
there
> >>back then, that would be the last thing I would carry with me.  Sure
some of
> >>it was out there and available during the time period, but so was a
> >>submarine, hot air balloon and a bunch of other stuff that would not be
> >>appropriate in the mountains.
> >>
> >>My view is, just because you can document something only proves it was
> >>there, not that it was common.  I can document a lot of stuff that
William
> >>Drummond Stewart took to Rendezvous in 1837.  Does it mean if everyone
wants
> >>to have something at Rendezvous that he brought, which was uncommon, it
> >>would be OK?  Only if you think it would be OK for half the people at
> >>Rendezvous to portray Stewart.
> >>
> >>I cook with stuff as simple as possible.  That means with sticks over
the
> >>fire, a small tin boiler and maybe a small folding steel frying pan.  I
also
> >>bring as little as possible.  I've learned that less is more and my
horse
> >>agrees.
> >>
> >>Just my 2 cents.
> >>
> >>Best Regards,
> >>
> >>Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>
>>__________________________________________________________________________
> ______
> >>
> >>
> >>>No Sir,
> >>>
> >>>The facts have already been established once and for all by the Fort
Union
> >>>Trading Post.  Cast iron artifacts of both types were present in the
> >>>mountain man period.
> >>>Walt
> >>>Park City, Montana
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> You guys aren't really serious about starting round
> >>>> two of the dutch oven debacle, are you???
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----------------------
> >>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>----------------------
> >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:09:58 -0600
> From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>
> Hello the cooking crew,
>
> Here's an idea.  An anvil is a specialized instrument, and not much else
can
> do the job it does.  A cast iron "dutch oven" doesn't do much more than
the
> kettles and pots that we positively KNOW were out here.
>
> Why would mountain men use cast iron?  What can it do that sheet steel and
> sheet iron kettles can't.  They weren't cooking bread!
>
> Guess I'd like to hear why they'd bring them, then we can calculate if
they did.
> Now if it's just convienient for today's doings that's ok, just say so,
and
> leave it go at that.
>
> Allen
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:25:54 -0600
> From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Men Fishing
>
> Hello the list,
>
> About fishing, in July of 1837 Osborne Russell talked about fishing at the
> outlet of Jackson's Lake,
>
> "July 4th I caught about 20 very fine salmon trout which together with fat
> mutton buffaloe beef and coffee and the manner in which it was served up
> constituted a dinner that ought to be considered independent even by
Britons".
>
> Page 97, Journal of a Trapper, by Osborne Russell.
>
> Allen
> Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 07:24:24 -0500
> From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: Dutch ovens
>
> Think I have read this book before!
> Frank
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:38:54 -0600
> From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>
> Capt,
> It seems to me that if I were back in those day's I would trade for plews
> more than trap for them, having the local indians do the work wrather then
> having to wade into a frozen stream myself. As most of the traders know,
it
> is hard to antisipate what will sell so you bring a lot of diferent items.
> The question a while back was, why haul cast iron cooking gear to the
> mountains?
> To trade and to use, then use the animals that hauled the trade goods in
to
> haul the pelts out.
> Ole # 718
> - ----------
> >From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >Date: Tue, May 30, 2000, 8:02 PM
> >
>
> >Ole,
> >
> >OK pard, got ya! Way it was worded I was thinking otherwise. I see the
logic
> >in your response below and don't have much trouble seeing that sort of
thing
> >being done either. Now back to our regularly scheduled program. <G> I
> >remain.....
> >
> >YMOS
> >Capt. Lahti'
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 5:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >
> >
> >> Capt"
> >> Not Even!
> >> Just making a statement as to what they would and could have hauled in
on
> >> horse back or by cart.
> >> An anvil would weigh from 60 to 150 pounds and there are journals that
> >> memtion them being hauled into the mountain's. On that note they could
> >have
> >> hauled 20 pots made of cast iron to equal one 120 pound anvil. It's
> >amazing
> >> to me what they hauled in.
> >> If I were traping and trading for beaver I would haul in all sorts of
> >goods
> >> for trade including cast iron.
> >> Ole # 718
> >> ----------
> >> >From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
> >> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >> >Date: Tue, May 30, 2000, 6:14 PM
> >> >
> >>
> >> >Ole,
> >> >
> >> >Mind if I wonder a bit about the thought process here a little? <G> I
> >> >presume that you are suggesting the idea that the anvil was made into
> >cast
> >> >iron pots?
> >> >
> >> >>From what little I know about cast iron foundry work, it is a very
> >> >specialized process that requires not only special equipment in the
form
> >of
> >> >a smelter but also just the right fuels to get the metal to melt and
> >pour,
> >> >etc. not to mention the special sands and molds that would be
required.
> >> >
> >> >I would respectfully submit that such would not have been even
remotely
> >> >possible anywhere west of the Great River during that time. Only
> >supposition
> >> >on my part but I think that is correct. I remain.....
> >> >
> >> >YMOS
> >> >Capt. Lahti'
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
> >> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:41 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Jerry,
> >> >> Just came back from Cache Valley Rendezvous (Park and Drop) it was
held
> >up
> >> >> Black Smiths Fork south east of Logan Utah (Willow Valley) Why is it
> >> >called
> >> >> Black Smiths Fork?
> >> >> 120 lb Anvil= 20 Cast Iron pots/keatles ? ya think, maybe
> >> >> Ole # 718
> >> >> ----------
> >> >> >From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
> >> >> >To: [e-mail]
> >> >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate
> >> >> >Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 10:23 PM
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> >Well looks like you guys want to get into the Dutch Oven
authenticity
> >> >stuff
> >> >> >again.  Maybe you should think about logic also.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I've said this before (and let me make it clear that this is ONLY
my
> >> >> >opinion) but what would an average mountaineer have carried?  A
Dutch
> >> >Oven,
> >> >> >a brazier or any other kind of heavy shit like that?  Well if I
were
> >> >there
> >> >> >back then, that would be the last thing I would carry with me.
Sure
> >some
> >> >of
> >> >> >it was out there and available during the time period, but so was a
> >> >> >submarine, hot air balloon and a bunch of other stuff that would
not
> >be
> >> >> >appropriate in the mountains.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >My view is, just because you can document something only proves it
was
> >> >> >there, not that it was common.  I can document a lot of stuff that
> >> >William
> >> >> >Drummond Stewart took to Rendezvous in 1837.  Does it mean if
everyone
> >> >wants
> >> >> >to have something at Rendezvous that he brought, which was
uncommon,
> >it
> >> >> >would be OK?  Only if you think it would be OK for half the people
at
> >> >> >Rendezvous to portray Stewart.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I cook with stuff as simple as possible.  That means with sticks
over
> >the
> >> >> >fire, a small tin boiler and maybe a small folding steel frying
pan.
> >I
> >> >also
> >> >> >bring as little as possible.  I've learned that less is more and my
ho
> >rse
> >> >> >agrees.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Just my 2 cents.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Best Regards,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
> >> >>
> >>
>
>>>_________________________________________________________________________
_
> >_
> >> >_____
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>No Sir,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>The facts have already been established once and for all by the
Fort
> >> >Union
> >> >> >>Trading Post.  Cast iron artifacts of both types were present in
the
> >> >> >>mountain man period.
> >> >> >>Walt
> >> >> >>Park City, Montana
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> You guys aren't really serious about starting round
> >> >> >>> two of the dutch oven debacle, are you???
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Tom
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>----------------------
> >> >> >>hist_text list info:
> >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >----------------------
> >> >> >hist_text list info:
> >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> ----------------------
> >> >> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----------------------
> >> >hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ----------------------
> >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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> ------------------------------
>
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