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hist_text-digest         Monday, June 5 2000         Volume 01 : Number 571



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help
-áááááá MtMan-List: Walnut dye?
-áááááá MtMan-List: canteens
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: more info- Beaver in Arizona
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help
-áááááá Fw: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help
-áááááá Re: Fw: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Wyoming State Museum Discovery Trunk
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: more info- Beaver in Arizona
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Wyoming State Museum Discovery Trunk
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Asphaltum Update
-áááááá Re: [Re: [MtMan-List: gone under???]]
-áááááá RE: [Re: [MtMan-List: gone under???]]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Bean Rifle
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Asphaltum Update

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 14:34:05 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help

> List members, I got the monday nite virus. Not being very literate on
>  computers I was sunk.
>  I urge all to stay up dated on your virus program. I didn`t and got caught
>  with the virus. I now have an up to date Norton program.

It simply boggles my mind that folks get caught with these viruses, yet folks
whom I know have been on the internet for some time still seem to get caught.
 I was accused by one listmember on this list, that if I am so smart about
computers, then why don't I try to teach everyone else how to use them.  We
can, of course, see the fallacy in that statement.  My advice in the past
seems to have fallen on deaf ears, yet I will try once again.  Most of you
never take the time to configure your email program.  You just load it up and
accept the default settings.  This is obvious in your postings, because you
send messages to the list with colored backgrounds, html attachments, and a
variety of other arcane settings which serve no useful purpose and just waste
bandwidth, both of the reader and the storage space on the server.

Open your email program.................
Somewhere in the header bar is a choice called options.

Go into it and it to "plain text"  Turn off all the other choices including
html, text/multipart, colored backgrounds, and all the other choices.

There is a choice for "quoting back the entire message."  Turn it off too.
That will eliminate all the postings which contain the previous 5 messages
that everyone else quoted.  When you answer a posting, hold your left mouse
button down and pass it over a sentence or two, which illustrate what you are
posting to.  Release the button.  That block of text should be highlighted.
If you are using MS, then you can click the right mouse button.  A screen
will pop up.  Choose copy.  Hit reply and you will get a blank message with
the proper subject header.  Then hit your right mouse button again.  The
popup menu will appear again.  This time choose "paste."  The lines which you
want to quote will appear in your message.  You can then type in your
response and send it.  If you are using another email program, then you can
do the same thing, however, you must click on the "edit" button in the header
bar.  You should get the same options.  This will result in a simple message
to the list, with a couple of quoted lines, and your reply.  Using the same
left mouse button to highlight text, you can hit the backspace arrow.  This
will erase all the highlighted text.  There are many ways to accomplish the
same task.

Now, somewhere in the that options menu is also a choice for automatically
downloading attachments, or to open them only when you choose to.  Turn off
the automatic selection.  This is where you receive the viruses on your
computer.  You CAN NOT receive a virus unless you download the attachment
which contains it.  NEVER download any attachment which you have NOT
specifically requested from the sender.  ALL viruses come as attachments.
This may change in the future, but it is a fact at this point in time.  If
you receive an email with an attachment that you did not request, just delete
it.

I have been on the internet ever since correspondence was done by dial up
bulletin boards.  I ran one back in the 80's.  I am listowner of two mailing
lists like this one....one has 800 members and one has 150 members.  I DO NOT
nor have I ever used any type of virus program.  They are not necessary
unless you make it a habit of downloading attachments.  I have never been
infected, and I have had email addresses since AOL on had 25K subscribers, as
well as several other ISP's.

There is nothing that anyone can teach you about computers that an hour or
two of clicking the various choices in your program, and reading what the
choices are and what they do, won't accomplish.  99% of all the options and
choices are self-evident.
We spend hours of our valuable time doing research and passing on our
knowledge using this electronic medium, yet we fail to even spent a few hours
to learn how to use it to communicate effectively.  Not doing so denigrates
the efforts of all who do take the time to do so.  To become a member of the
AMM, you must meet certain requirements which show you have the basic skills.
 If you are a computer pilgrim, then make the same effort to acquire the
basic skills required to communicate with others who have done so.  No one
has to teach them to you.  They are there waiting for you to discover them.
You only have to "want' to do it.

Dave Kanger


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Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 14:22:11 -0500
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help

Dave Klanger wrote.

"It simply boggles my mind that folks get caught with these viruses, yet =
folks=20
whom I know have been on the internet for some time still seem to get =
caught.=20
 I was accused by one listmember on this list, that if I am so smart =
about=20
computers, then why don't I try to teach everyone else how to use them.  =
We=20
can, of course, see the fallacy in that statement.  My advice in the =
past=20
seems to have fallen on deaf ears, yet I will try once again.  Most of =
you=20
never take the time to configure your email program.  You just load it =
up and=20
accept the default settings.  This is obvious in your postings, because =
you=20
send messages to the list with colored backgrounds, html attachments, =
and a=20
variety of other arcane settings which serve no useful purpose and just =
waste=20
bandwidth, both of the reader and the storage space on the server....."

Dave
Your post contains some good information and some very good advice.  =
Thanks for taking the time to send it to the list.  Hopefully it will be =
put to good use by those who need it.=20
However, it comes across as a lecture delivered by a dour professor to a =
classroom full of nit wits.  I don't know if that is how you intended =
it, but that is how it reads to me, at least.  I have discovered that =
when I  "lecture" my "advice" falls less on deaf ears than on ears that =
just don't want to hear it.  I know of a Army Colonel whose every =
sentence is a lecture and only the only people who listen to him are =
those whom he outranks, and therefore have no choice.=20
But, like I said, the information is good and I thank you for posting =
it.

Lanney Ratcliff


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Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:02:14 -0500
From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Walnut dye?

Has anyone found a way to make walnut dyes a bit more permanent?    What =
do you add to the dye as a mordant?   I'll be dyeing canvas if it makes =
a difference.


Todd


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Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 17:41:26 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: canteens

    I made the comment about "e-coli is not a modern invention".  I prefaced
that with my opinion that a container made of animal 'bladder', whether
pericardium, urinary, stomach, skin or whatever might not be too hygienic.
    The point is that 'they' did not understand why it was necessary to
practice hygiene back then.  Animal product water containers would probably
acquire any number of unhealthy buggies with use.
    Even a modern plastic canteen can become unhealthy if not properly cared
for.
    At least they wouldn't have caught a 'KAK' virus back then.
Frank


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Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 18:01:10 -0500
From: "John McKee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: mordant for walnut hulls

Todd: If you are using English Walnuts you aren't going to get much dye.
Best is black walnut. For dying, the soft outer hull is used, not the hard
shell.  Ferrous Sulfate which is copperas (a water soluble powdered copper)
available at a good pharmacy or dye suppliers {contact me off list for a
list of those suppliers} is a good mordant for darker colors. Long John

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Todd <[e-mail]>
To: MtMan <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 3:02 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Walnut dye?


Has anyone found a way to make walnut dyes a bit more permanent?    What do
you add to the dye as a mordant?   I'll be dyeing canvas if it makes a
difference.


Todd


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Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 19:23:01 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help

Something I'd add to Daves 'lecture' ;)... those of you using any Microsoft
mail program (Outlook or Outlook Express for instance) might wanna think
about raising e-mail holy he*l with Microsoft for their inability or should I
say unwillingness to update their software to make sure these virus's aren't
accidentally received/transmitted.  Also, be aware that many of the newest
'worm' or 'trojan'  type bugs are not caught by the most common anti-virus
programs, like Norton or McAfee, even with updated 'DAT' files.  So, if you
do like to download attachments, click on links contained in e-mail or just
'surf' the web, check into other programs designed to protect your system.
I'm in no way affiliated with DiamondCS, but can attest that their TDS-2
program has identified stuff the AV's have missed, as well as having
intercepted 'probes' of my system and automatically notified the offending
hackers ISP so they can be dealt with accordingly.  Because these worm and
trojan 'bugs' are being written and released on the unsuspecting daily, it
couldn't hurt to have a program designed to catch the scripts used to write
them, a process entirely different than what an anti-virus does. Also, an
anti-virus or trojan defense program is not the same as a firewall, another
thing you should consider if you have a network setup or have your file and
printer sharing open.  The internet is a modern day wilderness, and these
type programs are the equivalent of carrying a rifle, pistol and knife into
that wilderness to protect yourself.  Barney

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Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 01:26:15 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: more info- Beaver in Arizona

Any evidence for beaver in the San Pedro besides JO Pattie (Weber merely
cites Pattie?)

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Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 01:48:45 -0400
From: "Fred A. Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Something I'd add to Daves 'lecture' ;)... those of you using any Microsoft
> mail program (Outlook or Outlook Express for instance) might wanna think
> about raising e-mail holy he*l with Microsoft for their inability or should I
> say unwillingness to update their software to make sure these virus's aren't
> accidentally received/transmitted.  Also, be aware that many of the newest
> 'worm' or 'trojan'  type bugs are not caught by the most common anti-virus

[snip]

I have to give credit where credit is due...Dave IS correct! DO NOT open
attachments and you WON'T get "hurt!" Of course, it is BEST to NOT use
any MickySoft mailers nor web browser, as there are holes that can be
exploited WITHOUT you're opening an attachment. Even better....get away
from ALL MickySoft products...period.

Fred

- --
It said "Needs Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux...

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Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 02:08:29 -0400
From: "John Hunt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help

*****Microsoft has a free download patch to correct the hole where the worm
got in. The worm was spread by attaching it`s self to the automatic
signature that many of us use.

>
> I have to give credit where credit is due...Dave IS correct! DO NOT open
> attachments and you WON'T get "hurt!" Of course, it is BEST to NOT use
> any MickySoft mailers nor web browser, as there are holes that can be
> exploited WITHOUT you're opening an attachment. Even better....get away
> from ALL MickySoft products...period.
>
> >
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>


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Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 02:43:20 -0400
From: "Fred A. Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: VIRUS--thanks for help

John Hunt wrote:
>
> *****Microsoft has a free download patch to correct the hole where the worm
> got in. The worm was spread by attaching it`s self to the automatic
> signature that many of us use.
>
> >
> > I have to give credit where credit is due...Dave IS correct! DO NOT open
> > attachments and you WON'T get "hurt!" Of course, it is BEST to NOT use
> > any MickySoft mailers nor web browser, as there are holes that can be
> > exploited WITHOUT you're opening an attachment. Even better....get away
> > from ALL MickySoft products...period.

The MANY other holes are not patched.

- --
MickySoft released W2K with OVER 23,000 KNOWN "issues!"

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Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 08:56:51 -0700
From: "Gary A. Bell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Wyoming State Museum Discovery Trunk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- --------------4234BF180B91DF33888DE484
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello the list,

I struggled with the URL in Dick's message, searched around a little and found:

http://spacr.state.wy.us/cr/wsm/mount.htm

My printer is busily churning out the Mountain Man materials and a different
topic  Dick didn't mention on the Plains Indians.

Happy Trails!

[e-mail] wrote:

> The Wyoming State University Museum has put together lesson plans and a
> "Discovery Trunk," for teachers wishing to present instruction on the
> American Fur Trade and Mountain Men.
>
> Those of you working with Boy Scouts or presenting to school-age children,
> might want to check out this web site, print the lesson plans, and duplicate
> the contents of the trunk.  There is no problem using any of the materials,
> the university just wants credit to be given to them when used.  The web site
> is:
>
> commerce.state.wy.us/cr/wsm/mount.htm
>
> Dick Summers
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

- --------------4234BF180B91DF33888DE484
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Content-Description: Card for Gary A. Bell
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n:Bell;Gary
tel;pager:are you kidding
tel;cell:sorry
tel;fax:inconvenient
tel;home:503 631 3373
tel;work:503 631 3373
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
org:MICROPTICS
adr:;;19515 South Creek Lane;Oregon City;OR;97045;USA
version:2.1
email;internet:[e-mail]
title:proprietor
note:specializing in repair, preventive maintenance, design, consulting and training services on microscopes and allied equipment
end:vcard

- --------------4234BF180B91DF33888DE484--


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Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 13:03:57 -0700
From: vnb <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: more info- Beaver in Arizona

I'll have to go back and research this. Most of my info comes from the Hafen
series, Chittenden, Patties narratives, "The beaver Men", and "This Reckless
Breed of Men".

I had done the initial research many years back and had since made a map
tracing the routes listed in these publications that I now use for living
history demos.

The Journey never ends...

Barkin Dawg

>===== Original Message From [e-mail] =====
>Any evidence for beaver in the San Pedro besides JO Pattie (Weber merely
>cites Pattie?)
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 17:25:56 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Wyoming State Museum Discovery Trunk

Well, that's the web address but I had trouble myself when I tried to get
there --

I found the site using the search engine "google."  Which I suggest everyone
bookmark and use whenever you're trying to find a topic.

So to find the Wyoming State Museum Mountain Man or Plains Indians Discovery
Trunk(s) - go to google.  Type in

Wyoming+Museum+Discovery+Trunk+Program

the first four hits will connect you to either the Plains Indians or Mountain
Man Teachers Manuals.  It's interesting the artifacts they put in their
trunks to illustrate the time period.

Sorry for the confusion, but I've been in more confusing situations by far.

Dick Summers

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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 08:17:49 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Asphaltum Update

John,
Is this the same type asphaltum used in the process of "jappanning"?  And how
does one do this? I guess it's a paint and bake affair eh?
Rick



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Date: 5 Jun 00 13:32:34 EDT
From: Concho Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [MtMan-List: gone under???]]

"larry pendleton" <[e-mail]> wrote:
You Boys have just gotta try possum on the half shell.  Ya just don't kno=
w
what yer missing.  <GG>
Pendleton
- ---------------------------------
TALK ABOUT GONE UNDER, ANYONE TALK TO BUCK LATELY.

CONCHO.


____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:38:54 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [Re: [MtMan-List: gone under???]]

Beaver liver and possum.  Sounds like poor meat.  I like looking at the
buffalo and elk across the way.

Walt

On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana

You Boys have just gotta try possum on the half shell.  Ya just don't know
what yer missing.  <GG>
Pendleton
- ---------------------------------
TALK ABOUT GONE UNDER, ANYONE TALK TO BUCK LATELY.

CONCHO.




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:54:11 -0500
From: Matt Porter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Bean Rifle

To all,
    Does anyone know how popular rifles made by Bean were during the Fur
Trade and if there are any documented cases of their use in the
mountains?  Thanks.

YMHS
Matt Porter
________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 13:59:19 -0500
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Asphaltum Update

- --=====================_5247669==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Rick,

I don't have a clue.  The can claimed the active ingredient is asphalt, how=
=20
thin it is, or whether it contains sufficient hardeners and/or driers to=20
use for japanning I don't know.

I don't have anything I need to japan at the moment and I've only seen it=20
in 5 gallon cans.  Maybe someone who has a few corral poles to protect can=
=20
try some out on a scrap or two of tin.

The old product I used which was sold as "asphaltum varnish" didn't require=
=20
any baking only air drying.

John...


At 08:17 AM 6/5/00 -0700, you wrote:


>John,
>Is this the same type asphaltum used in the process of "jappanning"?  And=
 how
>does one do this? I guess it's a paint and bake affair eh?
>Rick

John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
 >>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>

- --=====================_5247669==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<font size=3D3>Rick,<br>
<br>
I don't have a clue.  The can claimed the active ingredient is
asphalt, how thin it is, or whether it contains sufficient hardeners
and/or driers to use for japanning I don't know.  <br>
<br>
I don't have anything I need to japan at the moment and I've only seen it
in 5 gallon cans.  Maybe someone who has a few corral poles to
protect can try some out on a scrap or two of tin.<br>
<br>
The old product I used which was sold as "asphaltum varnish"
didn't require any baking only air drying.<br>
<br>
John...<br>
<br>
<br>
At 08:17 AM 6/5/00 -0700, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite>John,<br>
Is this the same type asphaltum used in the process of
"jappanning"?  And how<br>
does one do this? I guess it's a paint and bake affair eh?<br>
Rick</font></blockquote><br>
<div>John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0</div>
<br>
<div>Kramer's Best Antique Improver</div>
<div>>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<</div>
<div>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<</div>
<br>
<div><<a href=3D"http://www.kramerize.com/"=
 EUDORA=3DAUTOURL>http://www.kramerize.com/</a>></div>
<br>
<div>mail to: <[e-mail]> </div>
</html>

- --=====================_5247669==_.ALT--


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