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2000-05-31
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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #569
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Thursday, June 1 2000 Volume 01 : Number 569
In this issue:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Virus
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re:Virus
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Virus
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Virus
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re:Virus
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re:Virus
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re:Virus
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
-áááááá Re: [MtMan-List: gone under???]
-áááááá Re: [MtMan-List: gone under???]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 07:33:44 -0700
From: "Paul W. Jones" <pwjones@excelonline.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virus
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01BFCAD2.8D1575C0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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I was infected with four. Actually worms I believe. 1) 08f4580.hta/The =
WScript/KAK.worm
2) kak.hta 3)kak.htm and 4)autoexec.bat/kak.worm=20
=20
Despite McAfee, am still repairing the damge and reinstalling program =
files that I was required to delete. Also, have noticed that I have =
received several similar ones this morning, all successfully deleted =
from several list members, including Lanney. =20
Regards, Paul=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Marilyn R. NIchols=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 7:28 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Virus
If anyone on the list knows the name of the virus that we received =
last night please reply to me as soon as possible. One of the long time =
members of this list has been affected with the virus and needs the name =
in hopes that his system can be saved. Thanks.
Marilyn
mnichols1@cinci.rr.com
- ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01BFCAD2.8D1575C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was infected with four. Actually worms I=20
believe. 1) 08f4580.hta/The WScript/KAK.worm</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>2) kak.hta 3)kak.htm and=20
4)autoexec.bat/kak.worm </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Despite McAfee, am still repairing the damge and =
reinstalling=20
program files that I was required to delete. Also, have noticed =
that I=20
have received several similar ones this morning, all successfully =
deleted from=20
several list members, including Lanney. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Regards, Paul<SPAN=20
id=3D__#Ath#SignaturePos__></SPAN> </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:mnichols1@cinci.rr.com" =
title=3Dmnichols1@cinci.rr.com>Marilyn=20
R. NIchols</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com"=20
title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com>hist_text@lists.xmission.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 30, 2000 =
7:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: =
Virus</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>If anyone on the list knows the name =
of the=20
virus that we received last night please reply to me as soon as=20
possible. One of the long time members of this list has been =
affected=20
with the virus and needs the name in hopes that his system can be =
saved. =20
Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Marilyn</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:mnichols1@cinci.rr.com">mnichols1@cinci.rr.com</A></FONT><=
/DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_009A_01BFCAD2.8D1575C0--
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:08:56 -0400
From: Darla <lilacs@pagesz.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Virus
The name of the Virus being passed on the list is "KAK".
It's not too bad, but can be an annoyance. Look on
your C drive. If you have a file called
C/Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\kak.hta, delete
it. That will take care of your system problems, but
I'm not too sure how to keep in from spreading.
(Lanney, you definitely have it -- it's at the end of
your most recent message)
Darla Sublette
List Lurker, Geek, and
Mountain-person wanna-be (gotta be, with this name)
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:08:31 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virus
Hallo the list: You should all be aware that virus scanners (McAfee, Norton,
Dr. Solomon, etc) do NOT do well in intercepting 'worms' or 'trojan horse'
type infections. Check out a website and program called TDS-2, available at
www.diamondcs.com.au. It is a 'script scanner' which does have a very high
chance of catching these others, and it's designed to be used in conjunction
with an 'anti-virus' program.
I would still appreciate it if someone would let me know which e-mail
contained the original instance of this 'kak' virus, and possible even send
it back to me so that i can put a couple of programs to the test.... I have
TDS set on automatic, and it caught and killed it before I was even aware it
had been sent. Also, was it a link included in the mail, or an attachment
that had to be downloaded or what? Thanks. Barney
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:55:55 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
Ole,
Sounds reasonable to me. Capt. L
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> Capt,
> It seems to me that if I were back in those day's I would trade for plews
> more than trap for them, having the local indians do the work wrather then
> having to wade into a frozen stream myself. As most of the traders know,
it
> is hard to antisipate what will sell so you bring a lot of diferent items.
> The question a while back was, why haul cast iron cooking gear to the
> mountains?
> To trade and to use, then use the animals that hauled the trade goods in
to
> haul the pelts out.
> Ole # 718
> ----------
> >From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >Date: Tue, May 30, 2000, 8:02 PM
> >
>
> >Ole,
> >
> >OK pard, got ya! Way it was worded I was thinking otherwise. I see the
logic
> >in your response below and don't have much trouble seeing that sort of
thing
> >being done either. Now back to our regularly scheduled program. <G> I
> >remain.....
> >
> >YMOS
> >Capt. Lahti'
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net>
> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 5:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >
> >
> >> Capt"
> >> Not Even!
> >> Just making a statement as to what they would and could have hauled in
on
> >> horse back or by cart.
> >> An anvil would weigh from 60 to 150 pounds and there are journals that
> >> memtion them being hauled into the mountain's. On that note they could
> >have
> >> hauled 20 pots made of cast iron to equal one 120 pound anvil. It's
> >amazing
> >> to me what they hauled in.
> >> If I were traping and trading for beaver I would haul in all sorts of
> >goods
> >> for trade including cast iron.
> >> Ole # 718
> >> ----------
> >> >From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
> >> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >> >Date: Tue, May 30, 2000, 6:14 PM
> >> >
> >>
> >> >Ole,
> >> >
> >> >Mind if I wonder a bit about the thought process here a little? <G> I
> >> >presume that you are suggesting the idea that the anvil was made into
> >cast
> >> >iron pots?
> >> >
> >> >>From what little I know about cast iron foundry work, it is a very
> >> >specialized process that requires not only special equipment in the
form
> >of
> >> >a smelter but also just the right fuels to get the metal to melt and
> >pour,
> >> >etc. not to mention the special sands and molds that would be
required.
> >> >
> >> >I would respectfully submit that such would not have been even
remotely
> >> >possible anywhere west of the Great River during that time. Only
> >supposition
> >> >on my part but I think that is correct. I remain.....
> >> >
> >> >YMOS
> >> >Capt. Lahti'
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net>
> >> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:41 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Jerry,
> >> >> Just came back from Cache Valley Rendezvous (Park and Drop) it was
held
> >up
> >> >> Black Smiths Fork south east of Logan Utah (Willow Valley) Why is it
> >> >called
> >> >> Black Smiths Fork?
> >> >> 120 lb Anvil= 20 Cast Iron pots/keatles ? ya think, maybe
> >> >> Ole # 718
> >> >> ----------
> >> >> >From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <zaz@pop.pacificnet.net>
> >> >> >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> >> >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate
> >> >> >Date: Sat, May 27, 2000, 10:23 PM
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> >Well looks like you guys want to get into the Dutch Oven
authenticity
> >> >stuff
> >> >> >again. Maybe you should think about logic also.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I've said this before (and let me make it clear that this is ONLY
my
> >> >> >opinion) but what would an average mountaineer have carried? A
Dutch
> >> >Oven,
> >> >> >a brazier or any other kind of heavy shit like that? Well if I
were
> >> >there
> >> >> >back then, that would be the last thing I would carry with me.
Sure
> >some
> >> >of
> >> >> >it was out there and available during the time period, but so was a
> >> >> >submarine, hot air balloon and a bunch of other stuff that would
not
> >be
> >> >> >appropriate in the mountains.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >My view is, just because you can document something only proves it
was
> >> >> >there, not that it was common. I can document a lot of stuff that
> >> >William
> >> >> >Drummond Stewart took to Rendezvous in 1837. Does it mean if
everyone
> >> >wants
> >> >> >to have something at Rendezvous that he brought, which was
uncommon,
> >it
> >> >> >would be OK? Only if you think it would be OK for half the people
at
> >> >> >Rendezvous to portray Stewart.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I cook with stuff as simple as possible. That means with sticks
over
> >the
> >> >> >fire, a small tin boiler and maybe a small folding steel frying
pan.
> >I
> >> >also
> >> >> >bring as little as possible. I've learned that less is more and my
ho
> >rse
> >> >> >agrees.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Just my 2 cents.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Best Regards,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
> >> >>
> >>
>
>>>_________________________________________________________________________
_
> >_
> >> >_____
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>No Sir,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>The facts have already been established once and for all by the
Fort
> >> >Union
> >> >> >>Trading Post. Cast iron artifacts of both types were present in
the
> >> >> >>mountain man period.
> >> >> >>Walt
> >> >> >>Park City, Montana
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> You guys aren't really serious about starting round
> >> >> >>> two of the dutch oven debacle, are you???
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Tom
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>----------------------
> >> >> >>hist_text list info:
> >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >----------------------
> >> >> >hist_text list info:
> >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> ----------------------
> >> >> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----------------------
> >> >hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ----------------------
> >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:30:49 -0700
From: hail.eris@gte.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Virus
<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>On 31 May 00, at 11:08, LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote:
<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> TDS set on automatic, and it caught and killed it before I was even aware it
> had been sent. Also, was it a link included in the mail, or an attachment
> that had to be downloaded or what? Thanks. Barney
</color>Another MS integrated product problem. I use a non-MS mail reader, and
did not have any such problems with scripts infecting me.
<smaller>I didn't even notice them, and would have not been aware there was a problem if
not for the warnings on the list.
Try http://www.pegasus.usa.com/
for a good non-MS mailer.
<nofill>
Kristopher K. Barrett
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:14:43 -0500
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Virus
- --=====================_81528906==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
On my current email machine, I'm running Win98, Norton & Eudora. I haven't
seen the first sign of the virus you folks are talking about. I have kept
my virus definition files fairly up-to-date. My Norton logs don't indicate
it ever entered my systems. I can find nor see any trace of it.
I have noted all (except Darla) who have it -- seem to be running MS
Outlook Express 5.0 as their mail client. Maybe this is another present
from Mr. Bill? Ohhh, thanks again Mr. Bill!
Any wonder why I'm switching to Linux as we speak?
John...
At 09:08 AM 5/31/00 -0400, you wrote:
>The name of the Virus being passed on the list is "KAK".
> It's not too bad, but can be an annoyance. Look on
>your C drive. If you have a file called
>C/Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\kak.hta, delete
>it. That will take care of your system problems, but
>I'm not too sure how to keep in from spreading.
>(Lanney, you definitely have it -- it's at the end of
>your most recent message)
>
>Darla Sublette
>List Lurker, Geek, and
>Mountain-person wanna-be (gotta be, with this name)
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
___________________________________
If Microsoft was plumbing -- it wouldn't pass code.
- --=====================_81528906==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
<font size=3>On my current email machine, I'm running Win98, Norton &
Eudora. I haven't seen the first sign of the virus you folks are
talking about. I have kept my virus definition files fairly
up-to-date. My Norton logs don't indicate it ever entered my
systems. I can find nor see any trace of it.<br>
<br>
I have noted all (except Darla) who have it -- seem to be running
MS Outlook Express 5.0 as their mail client. Maybe this is another
present from Mr. Bill? Ohhh, thanks again Mr. Bill! <br>
<br>
Any wonder why I'm switching to Linux as we speak? <br>
<br>
John...<br>
<br>
<br>
At 09:08 AM 5/31/00 -0400, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>The name of the Virus being passed on the list
is "KAK". <br>
It's not too bad, but can be an annoyance. Look on <br>
your C drive. If you have a file called<br>
C/Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\kak.hta, delete <br>
it. That will take care of your system problems, but <br>
I'm not too sure how to keep in from spreading. <br>
(Lanney, you definitely have it -- it's at the end of <br>
your most recent message)<br>
<br>
Darla Sublette<br>
List Lurker, Geek, and <br>
Mountain-person wanna-be (gotta be, with this name)<br>
<br>
- ----------------------<br>
hist_text list info:
<a href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a></font></blockquote><br>
<div>___________________________________</div>
<div>If Microsoft was plumbing -- it wouldn't pass code.</div>
<br>
<br>
</html>
- --=====================_81528906==_.ALT--
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:50:08 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Virus
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFCB31.0AA53B20
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You are right... the KAK.HTA virus seems to be written for MS Emailers =
only...=20
Ad Miller
On my current email machine, I'm running Win98, Norton & Eudora. I =
haven't seen the first sign of the virus you folks are talking about. I =
have kept my virus definition files fairly up-to-date. My Norton logs =
don't indicate it ever entered my systems. I can find nor see any trace =
of it.
I have noted all (except Darla) who have it -- seem to be running MS =
Outlook Express 5.0 as their mail client. Maybe this is another present =
from Mr. Bill? Ohhh, thanks again Mr. Bill! =20
- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFCB31.0AA53B20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You are right... the KAK.HTA virus =
seems to be=20
written for MS Emailers only... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ad Miller</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>On my current email machine, I'm running Win98, =
Norton &=20
Eudora. I haven't seen the first sign of the virus you folks are =
talking=20
about. I have kept my virus definition files fairly =
up-to-date. My=20
Norton logs don't indicate it ever entered my systems. I can =
find nor=20
see any trace of it.<BR><BR>I have noted all (except Darla) who have =
it =20
-- seem to be running MS Outlook Express 5.0 as their mail =
client. Maybe=20
this is another present from Mr. Bill? Ohhh, thanks again Mr.=20
Bill! </FONT><FONT =
size=3D3></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFCB31.0AA53B20--
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:05:50 EDT
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
One Question way don't any of these Dutch Ovens show up on any trade lists?
Who in there right mind would trade for a heavy cast iron pot when a tin,
copper or sheet metal pot would do the same job? I can't remember herrin of
or reading of any Indians having a Dutch Oven cook off. Just because you want
it to be, does not make it so. Maybe in a fort, but out in the mountains I
think not.
Coverin ground and packin light
Crazy Cyot
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:03:50 -0400
From: "Fred A. Miller" <fmiller@lightlink.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Virus
John Kramer wrote:
>
> On my current email machine, I'm running Win98, Norton & Eudora. I
> haven't seen the first sign of the virus you folks are talking about.
> I have kept my virus definition files fairly up-to-date. My Norton
> logs don't indicate it ever entered my systems. I can find nor see
> any trace of it.
>
> I have noted all (except Darla) who have it -- seem to be running MS
> Outlook Express 5.0 as their mail client. Maybe this is another
> present from Mr. Bill? Ohhh, thanks again Mr. Bill!
>
> Any wonder why I'm switching to Linux as we speak?
[snip]
Quite right! ANYTHING from MickySoft is full of gaping holes. 'Bad
design followed by bad code. Linux can be broken into, but IF you take
proper measures to secure it, you'll be fine, and you'll find out for
the first time what "stable" means. :) SuSE has the best distribution,
IMHO, and is not only my choice for here at home, but for my dept. at
Cornell Univ., where I'm a Systems Admin. If you have any questions,
contact me off list.
Best,
Fred
- --
It said "Needs Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux...
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:04:19 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
Crazy,
Packing a cannon, lead powder keg's, kegs of grain alcohol, glass bead's is
far from light.
The way we use horses and mules to day is light, the way they used them back
then was "hauling freight" (Teamster's) Etc. I will repeat what I said a
long time ago, I would not bring a "Dutch Oven on a primitive horse trip
today". Now think of this, if there is evidence of cast Iron pots at Bent's
fort, Fort Union, Astoria, and there were but a handfull of white women, Who
cooked in those pots? The trapers? or was in Indian women?. As it was then
it is now, it may not be practical but I have seen many women that have to
keep up with there neighbor. As for trade lists I don't know but more
information comes forword every year.
Your Humble Servant.
Ole #718
- ----------
>From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>Date: Wed, May 31, 2000, 6:05 PM
>
>One Question way don't any of these Dutch Ovens show up on any trade lists?
>Who in there right mind would trade for a heavy cast iron pot when a tin,
>copper or sheet metal pot would do the same job? I can't remember herrin of
>or reading of any Indians having a Dutch Oven cook off. Just because you want
>it to be, does not make it so. Maybe in a fort, but out in the mountains I
>think not.
> Coverin ground and packin light
> Crazy Cyot
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 23:27:39 EDT
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 00:00:34 EDT
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
Sorry about that, it got plum away before I even got started. Ole my Friend
you talked of a trader so lets look at it from a traders point of view.
Besides buying the goods in St. Louis the biggest expanse he had was getting
his goods to the Mountains. Weight meant money why would you take a few cast
iron pots when for the same amount of weight you could take a hole lot of
lighter weight pots and have more trade goods to sale. There for making more
off your trade goods. The Indian women had to do all the packing and what
advantage did the cast Iron pot offer her for type of cooking she did? I
don't think a trader could take fast enough to talk her in to one my self.
Crazy Cyot
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Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 07:38:42 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
Cracy,
We know by the drawing's made by Catlin and Miller that Cauldrons were used.
But remember St Louis was not the only source of supply, American fur at
fort union was supplied by steam boat. Astoria was supplied by ship and it
would depend on how close you lived around one of those forts and who you
were alligned with. I agree that it makes no sence and you could haul a lot
more tin,steel but like that bead's cost money and quils are free.
Back in 1983 I worked in the Alaska for 6 months, I was at a place called
Port Heiden. The natives that live there are a mix of Aliute and Norwigan
fishermen (Half Breeds) they are verry insecure as they are neither white
nor Indian. One of the young men had made a lot of money fishing for Salmon
and purchased a new Ford 3/4 ton 4-wheel drive truck, the truck cost about
26000.00 to buy and 6000.00 to have flown out to the village. Now here is
the catch, Port Heiden has 3 miles of road, no mountains and serounded by
wetlands. Funny thing there were about 4 of these new truck's in the
village. All dressed up but no place to go.
I don't know why, but vanity will make people do strange things.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>Date: Wed, May 31, 2000, 10:00 PM
>
>Sorry about that, it got plum away before I even got started. Ole my Friend
>you talked of a trader so lets look at it from a traders point of view.
>Besides buying the goods in St. Louis the biggest expanse he had was getting
>his goods to the Mountains. Weight meant money why would you take a few cast
>iron pots when for the same amount of weight you could take a hole lot of
>lighter weight pots and have more trade goods to sale. There for making more
>off your trade goods. The Indian women had to do all the packing and what
>advantage did the cast Iron pot offer her for type of cooking she did? I
>don't think a trader could take fast enough to talk her in to one my self.
> Crazy Cyot
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 07:37:15 -0700
From: hail.eris@gte.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
On 31 May 00, at 21:04, Ole B. Jensen wrote:
> Packing a cannon, lead powder keg's, kegs of grain alcohol, glass bead's is
> far from light.
> long time ago, I would not bring a "Dutch Oven on a primitive horse trip
> today". Now think of this, if there is evidence of cast Iron pots at Bent's
> fort, Fort Union, Astoria, and there were but a handfull of white women, Who
I think we may be confusing trade goods with gear carried by
trappers. I guess if you are re-enacting, it all depends on your
persona. A trader would likely be carrying anything, including the
kitchen sink. Someone living in a fort or a lodge in a village would
be justified in packing almost as much stuff. A trapper would lose
potential profit for each pack animal not carrying either
consumables or pelts.
I would not be surprised if a lone trapper's personal goods simply
rode on the same horse he was on. A company of trappers would
be able to split the load for more comfort ( i.e., those two carry half
the cook gear each, and the rest of us lug pieces of the tents,
ect....), but that is also dependent your persona.
Kristopher K. Barrett
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Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 10:33:22 -0500
From: jc60714@navix.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
Washtahay-
At 06:38 AM 5/31/00 -0600, you wrote:
>It seems to me that if I were back in those day's I would trade for plews
>more than trap for them, having the local indians do the work wrather then
>having to wade into a frozen stream myself.
The reality of the situation was that the natives were aware of the trade
opportunities, and frequently found that raiding--for goods or for items
sought in trade-- was more productive than trapping. A few references to
be considered on this subject are "The Cheyenne in Plains Indian Trade
Relations 1795-1840" by Joseph Jablow (get the Bison Press edition instead
of the original, its about $8 vs around $50), "Counting coup and Cutting
Horses--Intertribal Warfare on the Northern Great Plains 1738-1889" by
Anthony McGinnis, and "Changing Military Patterns of the Great Plains
Indians" by Frank Raymond Secoy. I can get ISBN numbers if anyone wants.
>As most of the traders know, it
>is hard to antisipate what will sell so you bring a lot of diferent items.
But the lists of trade goods taken to the mountains, the forts, and the
trading posts tell us what was sought by the buyers. For a later
discussion of this topic you might look at "Metal weapons, tools, and
ornaments of the Teton Dakota Indians" by James Austin Hanson.
I'm curious, and am hoping someone will have some knowledge on this: what
was the US military using in the west during the period in question? I've
seen sheet iron pots with US markings that date from the 1860s, but don't
know what was in use earlier. Accounts of the Revolutionary War discuss
the "heavy" pots and seem to indicate cast iron, but I have no idea what
was used in between. So far, I haven't found records of the governement
purchasing cast iron for the military but I think it likely that I haven't
yet found the right foundry records.
LongWalker c. du B.
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------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 00 12:15:38 EDT
From: Concho Smith <conchosmith@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [MtMan-List: gone under???]
Ok, here is something.
I have read numerous references to beaver tail being a "delicacy" or a
"dainty" or some such. Until I know from first hand experience I will re=
main
skeptical about how tasty beaver tail is. Seems like a beaver filet or a=
drumstick would be a more likely meal. I would appreciate some first han=
d
info.
Lanney Ratcliff
- -------------------------------------------------
Lanney,
=46rom Buck's page "Meat's Meat" article at:
http://pages.about.com/buckconner/edibles.htm#meat
A few folks we have read about had some comments about beaver.
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Osborn Russell reported that "beaver feeding on wild parsnips were poison=
ous
and those that ate of the meat, within a few hours became sick at the sto=
mach
and the whole system became cramped..."
Rev. Samuel Parker said "that while flesh of the beaver was usable, the f=
ore
part is of a land animal while the hind part is of the taste of fish like=
=2E.."
- ---------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure there's more than these two that made mention of the animal when=
prepared for the dinner table.
Concho.
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:33:44 -0400
From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: Re: [MtMan-List: gone under???]
Beaver liver is GREAT!!!
D
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Concho Smith <conchosmith@netscape.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MtMan-List: gone under???]
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:19:33 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
Kristopher,
Most trappers traveled in a group however there were some that traveled
alone due to circumstance.
Having only one horse would make traping un proffitable, how do you get your
hides out? walk and lead the horse with the plews on it's back?. They had a
lot of pack animals with them because they had to. Trapers both traded and
traped unless they were company hands
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: hail.eris@gte.net
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great Dutch Oven Debate/Anvil
>Date: Thu, Jun 1, 2000, 8:37 AM
>
>On 31 May 00, at 21:04, Ole B. Jensen wrote:
>> Packing a cannon, lead powder keg's, kegs of grain alcohol, glass bead's is
>> far from light.
>
>> long time ago, I would not bring a "Dutch Oven on a primitive horse trip
>> today". Now think of this, if there is evidence of cast Iron pots at Bent's
>> fort, Fort Union, Astoria, and there were but a handfull of white women, Who
>
>I think we may be confusing trade goods with gear carried by
>trappers. I guess if you are re-enacting, it all depends on your
>persona. A trader would likely be carrying anything, including the
>kitchen sink. Someone living in a fort or a lodge in a village would
>be justified in packing almost as much stuff. A trapper would lose
>potential profit for each pack animal not carrying either
>consumables or pelts.
>
>I would not be surprised if a lone trapper's personal goods simply
>rode on the same horse he was on. A company of trappers would
>be able to split the load for more comfort ( i.e., those two carry half
>the cook gear each, and the rest of us lug pieces of the tents,
>ect....), but that is also dependent your persona.
>
>Kristopher K. Barrett
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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