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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #556 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, May 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 556 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder (resupply and yearly requirements) -áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn] -áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: trappin & packin was priming horn] -áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Cacheing goods.] -áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Cacheing goods.] -áááááá MtMan-List: priming powder -áááááá MtMan-List: Ticks -áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches -áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches -áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches -áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ticks -áááááá MtMan-List: English sporters -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ticks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ticks -áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: trappin & packin was priming horn] -áááááá MtMan-List: Quotes -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: English sporters -áááááá MtMan-List: Caches still used today -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ticks -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ticks -áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Caches still used today -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ticks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 02:59:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder (resupply and yearly requirements) On Thu, 18 May 2000, Duncan Macready wrote: > In Africa a lot of powder was carried in "lead kegs" the powder was the > correct amount for the bullets cast from the container, when you wanted > more you hacked open a keg , poured the powder into horns and moulded the > bullets, > Did this happen in the USA? Duncan I am at work at the moment, so do not have access to my books, but I believe Captains Lewis & Clark, 1803-1806, carried powder and lead in this manner, though the exact weight of the lead keg, and the amount of powder held in them was not documented...... to my knowledge. Your Most Obedient Servant... Lee Newbill of North Idaho Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders www.geocities.com/northscribe - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:11:19 -0600 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn] Allen, I agree with you, I have long belived that each Mountain Man had about 2 to 3 pack animals. The resuply was done at the Rendezvous where company men would use there pack animals and carts to take the plews back to St Louis. The reason for a Cache in my mind would be so that you didn't have to haul things that you didn't need daily and to store extra equipmemt and supplies. For instance if you were heading to rendezvous to sell your plews and were comming back to the same area, you would not haul extra powder, lead, traps. You would travel light and carry your catch, this would leave plenty of room to use your pack animals for resuply for the winter. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn] >Date: Thu, May 18, 2000, 11:01 PM > >At 07:11 PM 05/16/2000 -0600, you wrote: >>Ole, >>What do you mean? ....the pack animals were not there to hall goods in they >>were there to haul pelt's out" >>Walt > >Walt, > >I have to disagree with ya here. Pack animals were just that, to pack >equipment and plews around. The pack animals that brought goods out, turned >right around and took plews back to St. Louis, that was the deal. The >trappers in the mountains had need, daily need, of pack animals. > >We've done enough horse back travel to know that one horse will keep a >single man moving and haul his personal equipment. But when you add traps, >any kind of supplies at all, you're talking about pack animals. But heck, >don't listen to me, saddle up your pony and give it a go! > >Allen > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:03:22 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: trappin & packin was priming horn] Ole, Walt made a good point by the time Rendezvous time came around their supplies were pretty well used up. The only thing a man would have been packin in to Redness that was not needed at the time was his traps. They might have a lodge skin cached where they in tended to winter but that would be about it. As far as headin back to the same trappin grounds if they had done their job that area would have been pretty much trapped out. Thoughts from the Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 19 May 00 11:30:48 EDT From: Concho Smith <conchosmith@netscape.net> Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Cacheing goods.] "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com> wrote: >How do you think the Cache Valey got it's name? Dog, >Gabe's Hole Brig. Do you know how it got its name? Unless I am mistaken I believe it was because some men were killed while in the process of making a cache. The hole they were excavating collapsed in on them. A typical method of makin= g a cache for a large amount of goods was to excavate a hole in the earth, usually near a stream or some type of water where the earth that was take= n out of the hole could be disposed of without leaving any sign, and then placing goods to be cached inside and covering all remaining sign of any type of activity. Of course a cache could consist of a large amount of goods, or just one item. A good way of caching traps was to leave them underwater, like in a spring, lake, or stream. T. Clark - ----------------------------------------------------------- Tony, That's how the "Cache La Poudre River" got it's name, some French trapper= s had a cache of powder on that stream in Colorado. Concho. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 12:10:46 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Cacheing goods.] I have always thought that had to be one of most dangerous things they did. I would rather face a griz then jump down in a hole dug the shape of a pop bottle five feet and deeper. That gust askin to be buried alive there was probably quit a few that lost their lives or all most lost their lives doing this. Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 18:36:51 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@centurytel.net> Subject: MtMan-List: priming powder With all the talk about priming powder, I have recalled a situation from the early 1970's during which there was a shortage of 4Fg. Then U.S. Senator Birch Bahy (sp?), Democrat of Indiana, sponsored the "Black Powder Relief Bill". Yea, right, his "relief" is what brought about the burdensome regulations that restrict, shipping, sale, storage and so on of black powder, not to mention drastically increasing the cost. But I stray from topic............. One of the results was a shortage of 4Fg for a couple years. During that time some enterprising company made and sold a "4F grinder". It was a wood device about four inches long with a long concave hole and a handle with a loosely fitting round handle. You simply put in the coarse powder and ground it up. Made good dust but nothing like true 4Fg. Today it is a curiosity and a reminder of how some politicians can lie. Relief? BS ! Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:02:48 -0500 From: "Matthew Porter" <pmporter@up-link.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Ticks To all, Does anyone no what species of tick carries the lyme disease? Down here, we have at least 3 different species. Thanks for any help. YMHS Matt Porter - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:23:38 -0500 From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com> Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches - -----Original Message----- From: Casapy123@aol.com <Casapy123@aol.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: May 18, 2000 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches >Would someone provide a reference to trappers making daily caches? I find >it hard to swallow. Depends what your definition of a cache is I guess. I can't provide a reference, however here is something to think about. I've found that often times when a person spends extended time out of doors in the wild that they are eventually faced with a situation in which they say to themselves " I think i'll just stash this here and come back for it tommorrow" (or next week,month, or whatever). For instance, they shot some game and have to cache part till they can return the next day, they found something that they can't transport at the moment (let your imagination work here), they stole something from an enemy, they got injured or sick, they injured a pack animal, they were in a fight, they lost something, the possibilities are endless. Say they were out from camp a distance and wanted to get back before the end of day, but had to return to the same spot the following day. Could be that if they had items that were dead weight and they wouldn't need till they returned the next day,they would just cache them? Like some traps for instance. Personally I have a habit when I am in the woods, which is most every day and I cover a lot of different country, I always am looking for spots that are good "hiding" places, or I should say that are suitable for hiding or caching something. Places and things that catch my eye might be a unique geographical feature like a rock formation, or a spring, or a large tree, or an island, somewhere that a person would be able to find again and would afford a safe place to stick something away or bury. Many times I have found items that I am sure were hidden, and then never recovered for some reason. Everything from prehistoric artifacts, fur trade items, to more recent items. Since I live in WI where a lot of logging went on across the entire state 100 to 150 yrs. ago I have found many items from these log gone people. How many times when I see a spot that I figure might make a good spot to put something and "come and get it tomorrow" I start poking around and find an axe, saw, or better yet, a long handforged chain. Just something to think about I know it ain't a reference, T. Clark - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:19:34 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches > Depends what your definition of a cache is I guess. I can't provide a > reference, however here is something to think about. I've found that often > times when a person spends extended time out of doors in the wild that they > are eventually faced with a situation in which they say to themselves " I > think i'll just stash this here and come back for it tommorrow" There is a story of a well known trapper who lived wild in the Boundary Waters area of Minnesota and Canada. A book was written about him, but I can't remember what it was. He seldom returned to civilization except to sell furs and to get resupplied. He had caches all over the Boundary Waters that included dried grains, coffee or tea, and tin cans. He used the cans to store the food and also to cook in. This was around the turn of the century and he was one of the last of the wild trappers in that area. In Canada, robbing another man's cache was a crime punishable by death if you were caught. This was true until recent times, and may still be true today in the more wild parts of that country. Caches were made for survival situations, so a man always knew where to go if he lost his food, or his canoe dumped, etc. Perhaps Angella is more familiar with the laws as they exist today. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:25:56 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches From: <ThisOldFox@aol.com>> There is a story of a well known trapper who lived wild in the Boundary > Waters area of Minnesota and Canada. A book was written about him, but I > can't remember what it was. He seldom returned to civilization except to > sell furs and to get resupplied. He had caches all over the Boundary Waters > that included dried grains, coffee or tea, and tin cans. He used the cans to > store the food and also to cook in. This was around the turn of the century > and he was one of the last of the wild trappers in that area.> Dave Kanger Hi Dave, I was in the Fort Francis area. This is the area of the woodsman not the mountain men. I was lucky. I was in the company of some of the decendents of the fur trade. Cacheing in that country and in this country are 2 very different things. It is one thing to travel back and forth across familiar ground on foot or whatever and quite another to be on horse back and not returning to familiar spots frequently. Making a big cache had to be a super big risk for the mountain men with the fur trade wars that were going on during the mountain man period. Walt - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:45:49 -0500 From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com> Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches - -----Original Message----- From: Walt Foster <Wfoster@cw2.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: May 19, 2000 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]but refers to daily caches Making a big cache had >to be a super big risk for the mountain men with the fur trade wars that >were going on during the mountain man period. Walt Less of a risk than hauling it all around with you in many cases. northwoods - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:25:33 -0700 From: Frank <kj7ca@nvbell.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ticks Definately english ticks, other wise known as lymies! Okay...I'm going to my corner now...bad skinner bad skinner! Frank Matthew Porter wrote: > To all, > Does anyone no what species of tick carries the lyme disease? Down > here, we have at least 3 different species. Thanks for any help. > > YMHS > Matt Porter > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:20:56 +1200 From: Duncan Macready <Duncanm@ihug.co.nz> Subject: MtMan-List: English sporters I know that English "Sporting Gents" attended various Rendezvous and hunted in the West , is there any record of the firearms these men used.? YMOS Cutfinger Friendships made,Problems shared Campfires across the wilderness. Auckland, New Zealand - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 03:05:21 -0400 From: traprjon@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ticks Matt, Deer ticks carry and spread lyme. Lyme disease is named for the town Lyme, Connecticut where it was identified or discovered. The latest theory is that other types of ticks may now be spreading Lyme. I have recently been diagnosed with Lyme that I have had for a lot of years. I am well into the third stage of Lyme disease. I have been falsley diagnosed with other things and treated for these ( the treatments did not help at all) until I had insurance that allowed me to finally see a specialist and leader in the treatment of Lyme. I will likely be on anti-biotics for a couple of years. Some interesting facts are that if you have had Lyme disease for some time and it was not caught and treated soon after the tick bite, the Lyme infection moves out of the blood and into the muscle tissue where it causes body aches, joint pain with no swelling (eventually turning into arthritus, not rumetoid arthritus, I forget the name of this type of arthritus). 80% of people who are in this boat will show negative in the blood test called Lyme Titers. There is no definative blood test for Lyme disease. When the Lyme titers is negative, there may be elevations of other counts in the blood that are possible indicators of Lyme. Most doctors are not aware of these things and make a diagnosis based on the Lyme Titers count. Also a lot of blood testing labs don't do the Lyme culture correctly, leading to a false negative reading. The one definative in diagnosing Lyme is to be on Tetracycline (sp) for a time. Around the fourth week if you have Lyme, you will get sick with flu like symptoms including feaver and chills, body aches, etc. Lime bacteria grows in monthly cycles, and the tetracycline kills the Lyme. The pain at this time comes from the dead Lyme bacteria in the muscle tissue. I'm not sure how this bacteria leaves the body, but it does. Massage helps the process. Tetracycline is stopped usually in May and other antibiotics like Hydroxychlor and Biaxin are perscribed until September or October when tetracycline can again be used. Also pain medication such as Neurontin and darvocet (sp) can help for sleep and pain. Often after a while of treatment, the Lyme titers in the blood will at some time show positive where before treatment it showed negative. The long term treatment for Lyme disease in the late stage is to over a period of time to find the right combination of antibiotics to kill the Lyme and other medications to cope with problems caused by the Lyme like not sleeping well (which is critical along with stress reduction). My doctor has advised me to stop work by going out on disability, however, I am going to keep working as long as I can, hopefully all the way through the treatment. One of the best stress reducers I can think of is being at a Mountain Man camp or Vous, but I don't need to tell you good folks that. Lyme (long term) does different things to different people. I had a conversation with a brother recently who advised me he knew someone that was having heart trouble. They did surgery and implanted a pacemaker, and sometime after that they discovered he had Lyme disease which was the cause of the heart trouble. Hope this helps. Trap-R-John YMHOS AMM - White Mountain Party "Don't compromise on your civil rights, they are yours!!! Stand up for what's right!!!" On Fri, 19 May 2000 17:02:48 -0500 "Matthew Porter" <pmporter@up-link.net> writes: > To all, > Does anyone no what species of tick carries the lyme disease? > Down > here, we have at least 3 different species. Thanks for any help. > > YMHS > Matt Porter > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 07:34:23 EDT From: HawkerAmm@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ticks John, You got that right. Most doctors are very hesitant to test for Lyme. Best thing to do if you got tic bites is to insist that your doctor prescribe Amoxicillin. Preferably 500 mg capsule, three times a day. This will almost always stop the infection. Then, the vaccine is a good follow up especially if you're going to be on the ground. The big lesson we learned that we can pass along is if in doubt, get treated. If you believe you got Lyme, get a blood test for it. The doctors are hesitant to have the test done usually because they have to be sent out and not done by local labs. True, there are false positives and false negatives but they are in the 90% range. About a month after I got infected, I tested positive. I insisted on the test at the same time of my cholesterol check. The Dr. finally said, "I suppose you'd feel better if we did the test." He called with the results indicating he was glad I had insisted. l took the amoxycillin for 21 days and that was (is) supposed to take care of the Lyme infection. Also, I got my first shot for the vaccine. My next shot is next month and my third and last in the series is in about six months or so. It is by LYMErix. The thing to remember is that nothing is 100%, the test, the vaccine, etc. Don't bitch, take advantage of the positive odds. LYMErix does have a web site. On it you can sign up for ongoing information by registering as a person taking their shots. In fact, I'm going back to them this morning. Good site! Take care, YF&B Bob / Hawker - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 07:12:00 -0600 From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: trappin & packin was priming horn] Cracy, OK! no more beating around the bush, Caching goods was nothing moore than a way to keep from having to haul everything. What I have been trying to say is this, with the amount of pack animals that they had it is verry possible to haul a lot of goods back from Rendezvous. The way we use horses today is more like a trail ride than a work party, some of the things we would never think of taking on a pack trip today were taken in the old days. The caching of goods would indicate to me that they would return to certain area's for what ever reason "base camp or winter camp". I would invite your comment's. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: GazeingCyot@cs.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: trappin & packin was priming horn] >Date: Fri, May 19, 2000, 9:03 AM > >Ole, Walt made a good point by the time Rendezvous time came around their >supplies were pretty well used up. The only thing a man would have been >packin in to Redness that was not needed at the time was his traps. They >might have a lodge skin cached where they in tended to winter but that would >be about it. As far as headin back to the same trappin grounds if they had >done their job that area would have been pretty much trapped out. > Thoughts from the > Cyot > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:55:30 -0600 From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Quotes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFC1CC.2FCFCD20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Laura asked for favorite quotes a while back and i thought I would give = a few. Mine are not as poetic as hers by any means, but there is a = picture they paint for me. In Rivers of the West Ms. Victor quotes Joe Meek. If you know the = circumstances you will understand the humor if not you can use your = imagination and be pretty close to the truth. " Then," says Meek, " Craig began to sing, and I began to laugh; but = Nelson took to swearing. ' The other quote is from Catlin. (letter 41) I find myself envious of the = little man on the white horse. He is rougher on his steed than I would = ever want to be, but his confidence and skill are such that he can = impress two. . . . well let Catlin tell it.=20 On the fourth day of our march, we discovered. . . . a large party at = several miles distance, sitting on their horses and looking at us. From = the glistening of the blades of their lances, which were blazing as they = turned them in the sun, it was at first thought that they were Mexican = cavalry, who might have been apprized of our approach into their = country, and had advanced to contest the point with us. On drawing a = little nearer, however, and scanning them closer with our spy-glasses, = they were soon ascertained to be a war-party of Camanchees, on the look = out for their enemies.=20 The regiment was called to a halt, and the requisite preparations made = and orders issued, we advanced in a direct line towards them until we = had approached to within two or three miles of them, when they suddenly = disappeared over the hill, and soon after shewed themselves on another = mound farther off and in a different direction. The course of the = regiment was then changed, and another advance towards them was = commenced, and as before, they disappeared and shewed themselves in = another direction. After several such efforts which proved ineffectual, = Col. Dodge ordered the command to halt, while he rode forward with a few = of his staff, and an ensign carrying a white flag. I joined this = advance, and the Indians stood their ground until we had come within = half a mile of them, and could distinctly observe all their numbers and = movements. We then came to a halt, and the white flag was sent a little = in advance, and waved as a signal for them to approach; at which one of = their party galloped out in advance of the war-party, on a milk white = horse, carrying a piece of white buffalo akin on the point of his long = lance in reply to our flag.=20 This moment was the commencement of one of the most thrilling and = beautiful scenes I ever witnessed. All eyes, both from his own party and = ours, were fixed upon the manoeuvres of this gallant little fellow, and = he well knew it.=20 The distance between the two parties was perhaps half a mile, and that a = beautiful and gently sloping prairie; over which he was for the space of = a quarter of an hour, reining and spurring his maddened horse, and = gradually approaching us by tacking to the right and the left, like a = vessel beating against the wind. He at length came prancing and leaping = along till he met the flag of the regiment, when he leaned his spear for = a moment against it, looking the bearer full in the face, when he = wheeled his horse, and dashed up to Col. Dodge, with his extended hand, = which was instantly grasped and shaken. We all had him by the hand in a = moment, and the rest of the party seeing him received in this friendly = manner, instead of being sacrificed, as they undoubtedly expected, = started under "full whip" in a direct line towards us. . . . - ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFC1CC.2FCFCD20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> Laura asked for favorite quotes a while back and i = thought I=20 would give a few. Mine are not as poetic as hers by any means, but there = is a=20 picture they paint for me. In Rivers of the West Ms. Victor quotes Joe Meek. If = you know=20 the circumstances you will understand the humor if not you can use your=20 imagination and be pretty close to the truth. " Then," says Meek, " Craig began to sing, and I began to laugh; but = Nelson=20 took to swearing. ‘ The other quote is from Catlin. (letter 41) I find = myself=20 envious of the little man on the white horse. He is rougher on his steed = than I=20 would ever want to be, but his confidence and skill are such that he can = impress=20 two. . . . well let Catlin tell it. On the fourth day of our march, we discovered. . . . a = large=20 party at several miles distance, sitting on their horses and looking at = us. From=20 the glistening of the blades of their lances, which were blazing as they = turned=20 them in the sun, it was at first thought that they were Mexican cavalry, = who=20 might have been apprized of our approach into their country, and had = advanced to=20 contest the point with us. On drawing a little nearer, however, and = scanning=20 them closer with our spy-glasses, they were soon ascertained to be a = war-party=20 of Camanchees, on the look out for their enemies. The regiment was called to a halt, and the requisite=20 preparations made and orders issued, we advanced in a direct line = towards them=20 until we had approached to within two or three miles of them, when they = suddenly=20 disappeared over the hill, and soon after shewed themselves on another = mound=20 farther off and in a different direction. The course of the regiment was = then=20 changed, and another advance towards them was commenced, and as before, = they=20 disappeared and shewed themselves in another direction. After several = such=20 efforts which proved ineffectual, Col. Dodge ordered the command to = halt, while=20 he rode forward with a few of his staff, and an ensign carrying a white = flag. I=20 joined this advance, and the Indians stood their ground until we had = come within=20 half a mile of them, and could distinctly observe all their numbers and=20 movements. We then came to a halt, and the white flag was sent a little = in=20 advance, and waved as a signal for them to approach; at which one of = their party=20 galloped out in advance of the war-party, on a milk white horse, = carrying a=20 piece of white buffalo akin on the point of his long lance in reply to = our flag.=20 This moment was the commencement of one of the most = thrilling=20 and beautiful scenes I ever witnessed. All eyes, both from his own party = and=20 ours, were fixed upon the manoeuvres of this gallant little fellow, and = he well=20 knew it. The distance between the two parties was perhaps half = a mile,=20 and that a beautiful and gently sloping prairie; over which he was for = the space=20 of a quarter of an hour, reining and spurring his maddened horse, and = gradually=20 approaching us by tacking to the right and the left, like a vessel = beating=20 against the wind. He at length came prancing and leaping along till he = met the=20 flag of the regiment, when he leaned his spear for a moment against it, = looking=20 the bearer full in the face, when he wheeled his horse, and dashed up to = Col.=20 Dodge, with his extended hand, which was instantly grasped and shaken. = We all=20 had him by the hand in a moment, and the rest of the party seeing him = received=20 in this friendly manner, instead of being sacrificed, as they = undoubtedly=20 expected, started under "full whip" in a direct line towards us. . .=20 .</DIV></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFC1CC.2FCFCD20-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:27:15 EDT From: Ssturtle1199@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: English sporters William Drummond Stewart was a Scotsman who went to the mountains in 1833. Check out any info on him including his novel, "Edward Warren". I'll try to research more when I have time. Till trails cross Turtle - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:39:47 -0700 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Caches still used today The subject of caches brought something to mind. Several years back my wife and I took a vacation to Lake Powell, which is on the Utah/Arizona boarder. As you might know Powell was formed as a result of damming up a portion of the Colorado River prior to its entry into the Grand Canyon. Anyway, we boat camped and took several hicks into the sandy box canyons which resulted from the rising water level over the years it took the lake to fill up. In one huge canyon, which was surrounded on three sides by several hundred foot walls of sand stone and on the fourth by lake water, we were poking around some cliffs and rock piles and located an OLD cache. Unfortunately, it was not anything of any "historical" significance and consisted of rather 'modern' day stuff. Wedged under a large bolder and partially buried in the sand we found an old bedroll which the pack rats and stink bugs had taken over and no doubt had used for many years. In the bedroll was wrapper an "old" Coleman stove, gasoline type, a frying pan, about 16" in diameter with a 2' handle (rusted), and what was probably a food sack of canvas (empty) with numerous holes. We figured that since the area had been inhabited for centuries by local native tribes who had, in recent years, been relegated to eking out a meager existence in farming and sheep herding that this was probably the "cache" of some Indian sheep herder. We thought it conceivable that he or she had returned to the grazing area one year only to find the water level to high to gain entry to the canyon and as such, all the cached possessions were lost to .......posterity. I suspect that from an "historical" point, instances of this nature have been played out hundreds of times throughout the expansion of the west. John Funk - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 11:09:33 -0500 From: "jdearing" <jdearing@brick.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ticks > Matt, > Deer ticks carry and spread lyme. Lyme disease is named for the town > Lyme, Connecticut where it was identified or discovered. The latest > theory is that other types of ticks may now be spreading Lyme A precaution I take is to spray my clothing and ground cloth with Permanone, also called Permalyn. It is available at Waly World in the sporitng goods section, next to the insect repellents. It isn't anywhere near historically correct, but neither is lyme disease. > "Don't compromise on your civil rights, they are yours!!! Stand up for > what's right!!!" > > That reminds me, check out this news story concerning Reno's search and seizure agenda. http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment051800a.html J.D. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:30:09 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ticks > A precaution I take is to spray my clothing and ground cloth with Permanone, > also called Permalyn. It is available at Waly World in the sporitng goods > section Lest anyone be confused, I think that Permalyn is also a Birchwood Casey gunstock finish, in which case you wouldn't really want to be spreading it on your body or hairy parts, unless of course, you were having a bad hair day. It is also found in the sporting goods section and could be easily mistaken for the repellant. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 11:57:01 -0700 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Caches still used today Make that...."took several "hikes", though I suppose we could have taken some "hicks" had they made themselves know to us. JF - ----- Original Message ----- From: John C. Funk, Jr. <J2Hearts@norcalis.net> To: history line <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 8:39 AM Subject: Caches still used today > The subject of caches brought something to mind. > Several years back my wife and I took a vacation to Lake Powell, which is > on the Utah/Arizona boarder. As you might know Powell was formed as a > result of damming up a portion of the Colorado River prior to its entry into > the Grand Canyon. > Anyway, we boat camped and took several hicks into the sandy box canyons > which resulted from the rising water level over the years it took the lake > to fill up. In one huge canyon, which was surrounded on three sides by > several hundred foot walls of sand stone and on the fourth by lake water, we > were poking around some cliffs and rock piles and located an OLD cache. > Unfortunately, it was not anything of any "historical" significance and > consisted of rather 'modern' day stuff. Wedged under a large bolder and > partially buried in the sand we found an old bedroll which the pack rats and > stink bugs had taken over and no doubt had used for many years. In the > bedroll was wrapper an "old" Coleman stove, gasoline type, a frying pan, > about 16" in diameter with a 2' handle (rusted), and what was probably a > food sack of canvas (empty) with numerous holes. We figured that since the > area had been inhabited for centuries by local native tribes who had, in > recent years, been relegated to eking out a meager existence in farming and > sheep herding that this was probably the "cache" of some Indian sheep > herder. We thought it conceivable that he or she had returned to the > grazing area one year only to find the water level to high to gain entry to > the canyon and as such, all the cached possessions were lost to > .......posterity. > > I suspect that from an "historical" point, instances of this nature have > been played out hundreds of times throughout the expansion of the west. > > John Funk > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:38:40 -0500 From: "jdearing" <jdearing@brick.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ticks > > A precaution I take is to spray my clothing and ground cloth with Permanone, > > also called Permalyn. It is available at Waly World in the sporitng goods > > section > > Lest anyone be confused, I think that Permalyn is also a Birchwood Casey > gunstock finish, in which case you wouldn't really want to be spreading it on > your body or hairy parts, unless of course, you were having a bad hair day. > > Maybe a word of caution is advisable here. Permanone is sprayed on your clothing at least several hours before going into the woods....before you put 'em on. Permanone kills ticks and chiggers before they can cause problems. Permanone is supposed to be a derivative of pyrethrum, a natural insecticide, and not supposed to be harmful to humans after it dries. This is good stuff. I have used it on week long treks, with only the one application before leaving, and not found even one tick on me. It doesn't work on mosquitoes though. Bummer. J.D. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #556 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.