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hist_text-digest        Wednesday, May 17 2000        Volume 01 : Number 554



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Static electricity & black powder
-áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]
-áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]
-áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Moccersons questions
-áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Wonderful country
-áááááá MtMan-List: Cacheing goods.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Moccersons questions
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Moccersons questions
-áááááá MtMan-List: pure flax sinew (linen thread)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Powder
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Cacheing goods.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wonderful country
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wonderful country
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wonderful country
-áááááá MtMan-List: Terrible Country
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wonderful country
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Powder
-áááááá MtMan-List: lymes disease

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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:10:24 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]

Larry,
  You are exactly right !  Well said sir !
Pendleton

- -----Original Message-----
From: Larry Huber <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]


I agree with the cache part of this message.  A Mountain Man on horseback,
carrying a year's supply of goods with him would certainly cache it before
setting about his daily routine.  However, it would be a very short sighted
(and short-lived) trapper who believed he only needed to carry with him what
he needed for the day.  He'd be assuming he'd be able to make it back to his
cache by nightfall.  I submit that a long-lived Mountain Man carried with
him daily the minimum he'd need to survive away from camp on an extended
basis.  He's hunting in hostile territory where grizzlies and blackfeet may
actively object to his poaching there.  He would be foolish to assume he
could safely make it back to camp.  No, I submit that he would be packing a
large horn filled with a considerable supply of powder.  A horn of the size
depicted by Alfred Jacob Miller in his sketches.  Also, he'd carry lead or
cast balls that would match the amount of powder in the horn.  His blankets
may be on his horse, but his possibles bag was near at hand not back at
camp.
I believe that day or hunting horns were frequently carried...but in more
civilized areas.  Near settlements of close lying farms or villages.  This
was a rural society for years and a farmer only needed to step a few hundred
yards away from the house to acquire game.  Many of the surviving examples
of horns and guns fall into this category because they were passed down
within the family and the practice they were designed for was also passed
down.  In the scope of American History the time of the Mountain Man was a
short one and his kind developed survival techniques unique to them.  His
camp wasn't his home, it was his base of operations and his "back-up" supply
depot.  The Mountains were his home.  What he needed, he carried.
Respectfully,
Larry Huber
#1517
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Concho Smith <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]


[e-mail] wrote:
guys---
I personally feel that the mountain men would set up a base camp to hunt
or trap out of and would casha that stuff not needed on a daly
basis---then would use a small day horn or like system(whatever you call
it) to get fresh meat or to run the traplines and food seeking
trecks---its a lot better to loose a small amount of important stuff than
the whole load of it---just my humbel opinion of course---hope I have
made my point---

Your idea Hawk is hitting the nail right on head, and the way that Curly G.,
Charley Hanson and Vern Bigsby at a conference in the early 80's saw it
also,
the trapper would setup a base camp, a cache (incase the camp was
discovered)
and carry just what was needed for a day or two - when away from camp. One
good point was powder, he wouldn't carry all his powder in a large horn,
what
if it got wet ot worst yet lost - stolen - etc., same goes with having all
his
gear with him.  They made a good point in there thinking and what they had
researched.

Later

Concho

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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 20:51:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: MtMan-List: Static electricity & black powder

If I may suggest as an experiment, why not try to create a static spark
with an OPEN priming pan amount of 3F to settle the question and post
results back to the list?  Have seen rather finger painful blue static
sparks with Vibram soles on carpet in dry weather and also even on
ordinary grocery store flooring then touching metal cans on shelf.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:11:20 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]

Ole,
What do you mean?  ....the pack animals were not there to hall goods in they
were there to haul pelt's out"
Walt


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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:57:47 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]

From  "'The Pennsylvania Kentucky Rifle " by Henry J. Kauffman ;  page 137,
"Before leaving the subject of horns, the reader should be alerted to the
fact that two sizes of horns were used in the period of the flintlock.  The
larger horn was filled with coarse powder for the barrel, the smaller horn
contained a fine powder that was placed in the pan for ignition.
     The invention of the percussion lock eliminated the need for the smaller
horn and the more recent large horns were not as attractive as the ones used
in the earlier times."............
     Don't really mean nothing, just found this in real black print.  Wanted
to pass it on.
Till trails cross
Turtle


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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:17:43 +1200
From: Duncan Macready <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]

Mike wrote Caches were made to be gotten in to once and then moved.
A number of the Hunters who made these Caches must have gone under before
getting back to them , or even couldnt find them, Have any ever been found
later?
YMOS
Cutfinger
Friendships made,Problems shared
Campfires across the wilderness.
Auckland, New Zealand


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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 06:46:37 -0700
From: "Poorboy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Moccersons questions

Klahowya my friends,

I am making my first pair of eastern centerseam moccersons.  in the past I
have always made the two piece plains moccerson.  I have developed the
pattern and cut the uppers and the extra soles.  What I need to know is:  Do
I hide glue the extra sole to the inside of the moc or do I sew it to the
bottom?  What is the best stitch to use for longevity of the linen thread I
am using?  Thank you in advance for everyone's time and efforts concerning
these questions.

YMOS
PoorBoy



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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:46:21 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]

Walt,
Think about this, the reason that trapers were out in the mountains was to
trap Beaver, and like most of us they expected to trap a lot of Beaver. Now
having said that, they had to be able to get those plews to market and so
they would bring pack animals. For instance if you had a party of 20 trapers
you could expect to see about 60 to 80 animals either horses or mules. If
this party was moving to a new traping area they would carry there traps,
bed rolls,cooking equipment, etc. if you were returning to the same area
that you had traped the year before you would have cashed the traps, to be
used later. This would make it possible for a large party to carry a lot of
diferent items into there base camp that a single or couple of traper's
would not be able to do. But like us the traping party would have great
expectations for there success and would be thinking of how to get there
catch to Rendezvous. If you read "Rocky Mountain Rendezvous" by Fred Gowans,
you would see that they had to move the Rendezvous camps two or three times
in order to keep a good supply of feed for there animals.
Anyway I hope this explains my thinking better.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]
>Date: Tue, May 16, 2000, 7:11 PM
>

>Ole,
>What do you mean?  ....the pack animals were not there to hall goods in they
>were there to haul pelt's out"
>Walt
>
>
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>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:20:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Wonderful country

Bill, thanks for coming to the defense of Wyoming,
especially about the bubble crested west coasters.
Keep it up and maybe we'll let you in someday.  I
would rather read this line than the beat to death
authenticity line.  Dog, somewhere near the Black's Fork

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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:21:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Cacheing goods.

How do you think the Cache Valey got it's name?  Dog,
Gabe's Hole Brig.

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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:34:16 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moccersons questions

Poorboy hide glue a lone will not hold up because it brakes down when it gets
wet.  When it dries it will get hard so just tacking it in place with glue
will help hold it where you want it while you sew it. I use a whip stitch
making sure I only go part way threw the leather on the body of the moc. that
way there is no stitch showing on the out side where it will get the most
ware.
                                                 Crazy Cyot



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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:16:50 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moccersons questions

Poorboy I for got to mention this will work for both in side and out side the
only difference when put extra soles on the out side make sure the peace is
large enough that all the stitches are on the side of the foot ware it won't
be walk on.
                                         Crazy Cyot

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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:42:02 -0500
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: pure flax sinew (linen thread)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFC027.355FEDC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

During the recent "discussions" about the use of waxed nylon artificial =
sinew there were numerous references to using real animal sinew or linen =
thread for sewing projects.  There is a company, Barbour's,  in Blue =
Mountain, Alabama 36201 that has made real linen thread, which they call =
"pure flax sinew", since 1784.  Recently I bought a one pound spool =
(1354 yards!!) of 4-cord flax thread that would be ideal for most sewing =
projects that anyone is likely to encounter.  The thread is very strong =
and would probably work for fishing line, too, if care were taken to dry =
it thoroughly after use.  That is pure speculation on my part but I =
intend to test the theory soon. =20
I bought it at the Leather Factory store in Ft Worth and got a hefty =
discount from the rather expensive original price because it is make for =
a particular brand of shoe makers lock stitch sewing machine that has =
been discontinued as has the thread .  (Some machines use left twist =
thread and others use right twist thread, but I figured that the =
direction of the twist would not make any difference in hand sewing.)  =
There are Leather Factory stores around the country and if you can find =
one you might be able to negotiate a similar discount.
YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff

Check our Barbours and Leather Factory below:

http://leatherfactory.com/
http://www.barbour-threads.com/profile.html


- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFC027.355FEDC0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>During the recent "discussions" about the use of =
waxed nylon=20
artificial sinew there were numerous references to using real =
animal sinew=20
or linen thread for sewing projects.  There is a company,=20
Barbour</FONT><FONT size=3D3>'s,  in Blue Mountain, Alabama 36201 =
that has=20
made real linen thread, which they call "pure flax sinew", since=20
1784.  Recently I bought a one pound spool (1354 yards!!) of 4-cord =
flax=20
thread that would be ideal for most sewing projects that anyone is =
likely to=20
encounter.  The thread is very strong and would probably work for =
fishing=20
line, too, if care were taken to dry it thoroughly after use.  That =
is pure=20
speculation on my part but I intend to test the theory soon.  =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>I bought it at the Leather Factory store in Ft Worth =
and got a=20
hefty discount from the rather expensive original price because it is =
make for=20
a particular brand of shoe makers lock stitch sewing machine that =
has been=20
discontinued as has the thread .  (Some machines use left twist =
thread and=20
others use right twist thread, but I figured that the direction of the =
twist=20
would not make any difference in hand sewing.)  There are Leather =
Factory=20
stores around the country and if you can find one you might be able to =
negotiate=20
a similar discount.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>YMOS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Lanney Ratcliff</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Check our Barbours and Leather Factory below:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"http://leatherfactory.com/">http://leatherfactory.com/</A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><A=20
href=3D"http://www.barbour-threads.com/profile.html">http://www.barbour-t=
hreads.com/profile.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFC027.355FEDC0--


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Date: 17 May 2000 16:51:54 -0600
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Powder

Let's bring up one more tid bit to examine on cacheing powder & lead.  =
Just how much do you think a man would have carried for a year?  Did he =
shoot one, two, three times a day?  If he shot one time a day on the =
average, say 80 grains, how much powder and lead did he need?  Are we =
thinking that he carried so much that he needed to cache quite a bit?  Or =
did he not need to carry all that much?  Don


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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:58:10 -0500
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cacheing goods.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
To: hist list <[e-mail]>
Date: May 17, 2000 11:22 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Cacheing goods.


>How do you think the Cache Valey got it's name?  Dog,
>Gabe's Hole Brig.


Do you know how it got its name? Unless I am mistaken I believe it was
because some men were killed while in the process of making a cache. The
hole they were excavating collapsed in on them. A typical method of making a
cache for a large amount of goods was to excavate a hole in the earth,
usually near a stream or some type of water where the earth that was taken
out of the hole could be disposed of without leaving any sign, and then
placing goods to be cached inside and covering all remaining sign of any
type of activity. Of course a cache could consist of a large amount of
goods, or just one item. A good way of caching traps was to leave them
underwater, like in a spring, lake, or stream.

T. Clark


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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:56:05 -0500
From: "jdearing" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wonderful country

> Bill, thanks for coming to the defense of Wyoming,
> especially about the bubble crested west coasters.
> Keep it up and maybe we'll let you in someday

Speaking of Wyoming...I plan to visit Yellowstone and surrounding area the
first of June,
and was wondering if anyone could suggest a few sites not normally seen by
the bubble
crested west coasters.  Ahh, I might add that I'm from Missouri, so don't
count me as
part of nuts, fruits, and flakes from the west coast.  I'm as normal as
anyone on this list. ;-)

I do plan to visit the Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale. Any other
good places
to visit? Any suggestions for good flyfishing locations not normally fished
by the west
coasters? Thanks much
J.D.


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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:21:17 -0500
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wonderful country

- -----Original Message-----
From: jdearing <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: May 17, 2000 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wonderful country
>Speaking of Wyoming...I plan to visit Yellowstone and surrounding area the
>first of June,
>and was wondering if anyone could suggest a few sites

What surrounding areas? East, west. north or south of the park? Have you
ever been there before? If you never been in the park, most all of it is
worth seeing once. That is, if you can go during the "off" season. If there
is such a thing. I had a lot of fun last fall along the Gallatin R. N.W. of
the park. Camped back somewhere on a little branch of the Gallatin which was
called "Portal Creek". The wife and I caught all of the cutthroat we cared
to. There are so many beautiful places to see it's hard to tell you where to
start. I am kind of partial to a place in the park called blacktail plateau
southeast of Mammoth Hot springs. There is a real beautiful spot which
requires a 30 minute hike to get into where the view is exceptional. It's a
360 degree view of mountains. My wife and I were married there by the park
minister.

T. Clark


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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:22:44 -0500
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder

Don
That can be calculated if you know that one pound equals 7,000 grains.  =
Divide the charge weight (adding a smidgen for priming) into 7,000 to =
get the shots per pound of powder.   Your 80 grain load would probably =
yield about 80-odd shots if you allow for a little waste.  I don't know =
how much each of the various sized round ball weighs but the quanity of =
lead could be calculated in the same way.  I do know that a ball for a =
.62 caliber goes about 20 to the pound, with smaller sizes giving more =
ball to the pound, of course. =20
I will leave discussing the issue of cacheing powder and lead to others, =
but if I were in the rocky mountains in the 1820's or 1830's I would =
ALWAYS have a full horn and a hefty poke of ball if I had any choice in =
the matter at all.  =20
YMOS
Lanney=20

- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
To: History Text <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 5:51 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Powder=20


Let's bring up one more tid bit to examine on cacheing powder & lead.  =
Just how much do you think a man would have carried for a year?  Did he =
shoot one, two, three times a day?  If he shot one time a day on the =
average, say 80 grains, how much powder and lead did he need?  Are we =
thinking that he carried so much that he needed to cache quite a bit?  =
Or did he not need to carry all that much?  Don


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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:16:58 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder

Seems to me that I read in Ogden's journal that once they got down to the Lemhi
River country, the men could hardly be restrained from running buffalo except by
restricting them access to powder and lead.  But, then, that's a big brigade
traveling with women, kids, and all the plunder.  Interesting question.  How
much lead & powder did a small party take?



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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:27:29 -0600
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wonderful country

About 10 miles west of Pinedale is the site of Fort Bonneville.  It fits the
description given by period journals to a "T".  Also not far from there is
the site where Father DeSmet preached his sermon, and of course the Horse
Creek rendevous sites......and lots more.

Yellowstone isn't too bad before the 1st of July.

Allen

At 05:56 PM 05/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> Bill, thanks for coming to the defense of Wyoming,
>> especially about the bubble crested west coasters.
>> Keep it up and maybe we'll let you in someday
>
>Speaking of Wyoming...I plan to visit Yellowstone and surrounding area the
>first of June,
>and was wondering if anyone could suggest a few sites not normally seen by
>the bubble
>crested west coasters.  Ahh, I might add that I'm from Missouri, so don't
>count me as
>part of nuts, fruits, and flakes from the west coast.  I'm as normal as
>anyone on this list. ;-)
>
>I do plan to visit the Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale. Any other
>good places
>to visit? Any suggestions for good flyfishing locations not normally fished
>by the west
>coasters? Thanks much
>J.D.
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>


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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:49:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Terrible Country

If you plan on visiting the Yellerstone country in
early June (Or any time of year for that matter)be
sure and dress warm.  I am dead on serious-I have been
snowed on as late as July 3, and the wonderful Wyoming
wind is sharp as a blackfoot arrow.  Please don't tell
the bubble crested west coasters about this little
advertised fact.  There is a lot to see in that area,
and if you have time you should take the Chief Joseph
Highway out of Cody into Montana. It is easy to circle
back to the park, and you will see some really ugly
country-flat as a pancake and just as interesting.
Dog, Gabe's Hole Brig.

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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:08:19 -0700
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder

My guess is, what ever was available to them.  Based upon whatever
"intelligence" was available to them regarding hostiles, game and assorted
"targets of opportunity".  Tactical thinking ain't changed much over the
years, folks.  I have to think that "survival" thoughts were foremost in
ones thinking.
John Funk


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder


>
>
> Seems to me that I read in Ogden's journal that once they got down to the
Lemhi
> River country, the men could hardly be restrained from running buffalo
except by
> restricting them access to powder and lead.  But, then, that's a big
brigade
> traveling with women, kids, and all the plunder.  Interesting question.
How
> much lead & powder did a small party take?
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:26:07 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wonderful country

Speaking of Wyoming...I plan to visit Yellowstone and surrounding area the
first of June,
and was wondering if anyone could suggest a few sites not normally seen by
the bubble
crested west coasters.  Ahh, I might add that I'm from Missouri, so don't
count me as
part of nuts, fruits, and flakes from the west coast.  I'm as normal as
anyone on this list. ;-)

I do plan to visit the Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale. Any other
good places
to visit? Any suggestions for good flyfishing locations not normally fished
by the west
coasters? Thanks much
J.D.

Well sir,

I hate to do this, but you might drive out Horse Creek road north of Dubois
and fish the Wiggins Fork.  It's just over Togwotee Pass from Jackson Hole
(and headwaters of the Wind River.) Great car camping all through that
country, lots of excellent access to the wilderness, plenty of (gulp!) griz,
all that good stuff.  Just don't go back there during elk season, especially
not to the cut blocks above Bush Lake, er else you'll be persona non grata
with this ole coon.

On the 4th of July they have a fun little roundezvous in Riverton at the site
(approximately) of the original 1830 & 1838 doins.  Look up Jake Korell in
Riverton-- if there's a man alive today that would fit right in with Bridger,
Fitzpatrick, Walker and such, it'd be Jake Korell.  He's got all the skills.

Visit the Shoshones and Arapahoes in Ft. Washakie and Ethete et. al. while
you're in the country.  You can still pick up fine beadwork for a song.

And that's all I'm going to divulge about my blessed home (though I live down
here in Colo. right now), at least to a flatlander.  Now if you were from
California, the resting place of Andy Sublette, George Yount and countless
other fine frontiersmen, as well as the location of the highest mountains in
the lower '48 and home to probably the best black bear hunting in America, I
might be tempted to tell you more.

Just kidding JD, I hope you have a good time.

john r sweet








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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 20:46:18 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder

Don,
  I can't remember where I read it, but I seem to recall that a typical
outfit for a trapper was 20 pounds of powder and 40 pounds of lead.  Now
that seems like a lot, but when you factor in the possibility of loss due to
thievery, wet conditions, plus having some for trade, etc. That was most
likely about right.  In a .50 cal. rifle it takes about 1 lbs. powder to
fire 2 lbs. of lead.  I know all that depends on what charge you use, and
how much you donate to Mother Earth.
Pendleton
- -----Original Message-----
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
To: History Text <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 3:48 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Powder


Let's bring up one more tid bit to examine on cacheing powder & lead.  Just
how much do you think a man would have carried for a year?  Did he shoot
one, two, three times a day?  If he shot one time a day on the average, say
80 grains, how much powder and lead did he need?  Are we thinking that he
carried so much that he needed to cache quite a bit?  Or did he not need to
carry all that much?  Don


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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:45:25 -0500
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: lymes disease

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Ho the list
I have something serious to talk about so listen up.  It ain't history =
oriented, but that's too bad.

Last fall my brother contracted lymes disease, a tick borne infectious =
disease that is getting more widespread daily.  He has been hospitalized =
several times and has some scary symptoms.  Some people die from the =
disease, but it is more often just dibilitating.  His doctor told him =
that he will be off work a minimum of six months, but more likely at =
least a year.  Luckily his employer, the City of Arlington, Texas, is =
being very cooperative and between workman's comp and the city he will =
continue to receive his full salary.  Yes,  I said workman's comp.  His =
occupation, utility worker, is among the most widely affected groups and =
with the excellent documentation my brother provided he was approved for =
workman's comp.  In fact, he is thought to be the first person in Texas =
to be approved for  workman's comp due to lymes disease.
Lymes disease is contracted from a tick about the size of a grain of =
coarse pepper, not the big dog ticks that you can actually see.  The =
disease is widespread all over the USA and is approaching epidemic =
proportions in some areas.  My brother's doctor said that state tourism =
departments are downplaying the disease for fear of scaring off =
tourists.  How do you like that?!
Any of us who use the outdoors, and who uses the outdoors more that =
buckskinners?, are subject to infection and should make ourselves aware =
of the dangers and possible preventive measures.  There is a vaccine, =
LYMErix, that goes a long way toward preventing infection.  I have =
included below a couple of sites to find out more about this disease and =
about the vaccine.   I intend to get the vaccine immediately and I urge =
everybody to read this and any other information about lymes disease and =
decide for themselves what is best for them.=20
My brother told me that he will gladly talk to anybody about his case =
and effects it has had on his life.  He asks that you call no later than =
9:00pm Central Time.  My brother's name is Danney Ratcliff and his phone =
number is 817 483 0588
YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff

http://lymerix.com/

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/148ba2.htm

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Ho the list</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>I have something serious to talk about so listen up.  It ain't =
history=20
oriented, but that's too bad.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Last fall my brother contracted lymes disease, a tick borne =
infectious=20
disease that is getting more widespread daily.  He has been =
hospitalized=20
several times and has some scary symptoms.  Some people die from =
the=20
disease, but it is more often just dibilitating.  His doctor told =
him that=20
he will be off work a minimum of six months, but more likely at least a=20
year.  Luckily his employer, the City of Arlington, Texas, is being =
very=20
cooperative and between workman's comp and the city he will continue to =
receive=20
his full salary.  Yes,  I said workman's comp.  His =
occupation,=20
utility worker, is among the most widely affected groups and with the =
excellent=20
documentation my brother provided he was approved for workman's =
comp.  In=20
fact, he is thought to be the first person in Texas to be approved =
for =20
workman's comp due to lymes disease.</DIV>
<DIV>Lymes disease is contracted from a tick about the size of a grain =
of coarse=20
pepper, not the big dog ticks that you can actually see.  The =
disease is=20
widespread all over the USA and is approaching epidemic proportions in =
some=20
areas.  My brother's doctor said that state tourism departments are =

downplaying the disease for fear of scaring off tourists.  How do =
you like=20
that?!</DIV>
<DIV>Any of us who use the outdoors, and who uses the outdoors more =
that=20
buckskinners?, are subject to infection and should make ourselves aware =
of the=20
dangers and possible preventive measures.  There is a vaccine, =
LYMErix,=20
that goes a long way toward preventing infection.  I have included =
below a=20
couple of sites to find out more about this disease and about the=20
vaccine.   I intend to get the vaccine immediately and I urge=20
everybody to read this and any other information about lymes disease and =
decide=20
for themselves what is best for them. </DIV>
<DIV>My brother told me that he will gladly talk to anybody about his =
case and=20
effects it has had on his life.  He asks that you call no later =
than 9:00pm=20
Central Time.  My brother's name is Danney Ratcliff and his phone =
number is=20
817 483 0588</DIV>
<DIV>YMOS</DIV>
<DIV>Lanney Ratcliff</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><A=20
href=3D"http://lymerix.com/">http://lymerix.com/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3><A=20
href=3D"http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/148ba2.htm">http://www.pslgroup.com/dg=
/148ba2.htm</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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