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hist_text-digest         Monday, May 15 2000         Volume 01 : Number 552



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: priming horn
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a country
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a UGLY country...Go to Yellowstone Park
-áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]
-áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Mackinaw boat]
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)
-áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: What a country]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What a country
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)
-áááááá Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Mackinaw boat]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: priming horn
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: priming horn
-áááááá MtMan-List: What I meant to say....
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What I meant to say....
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: What I meant to say....
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Black Powder
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Literature/Historical Experience/Quotes, etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:17:20 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: priming horn

guys---
must have 50 plus horns total that are quite old---and many  are quite
small---only have 6 or 8 that hold over 1/4 lb of powder---all are made
prior to 1900 to the best of my knowledge---some have brass tips and some
dont---most of them would not hold more than 5 or 6 shots with a large
bore gun IE 50 cal or above---I always thought that those with a large
pouring hole was for salt or for caps---most show that they contained
powder ---I have one horn that I bought at a auction when they were
selling the boon rifle and some of his gun stuff by the boon family---it
has scratched on the end---D. Boon 1818 and is presently on loan and
displayed at the Boon Home in defiance Mo.---It is about 4" long and the
pouring hole is too small for caps and I feel not for salt usage---it is
white with patenia on the outside and flat---inside is black from
powder---


does this tell us anything-??? is this something that could be considered
as documentation of the use of a priming horn--(cant deturmine but)-yes
it is easier to not use a priming horn but there must have been a reason
for the small horns---My personal feeling is that they were bag or day
horns used for one or two day hunts---and would help to keep things from
flopping around in the woods---trecking and such used big horns with a 30
plus day supply of powder---and a good supply of balls in the pouch or in
the hunting bag---

I have followed this thread with interest and all of you make good points
but lets go to the practical side---and see if we can make any sense in
this---personally i feel that priming horns were a individual
thing---just as they are today---each person had his choice of what he
carried and how he carried it---some of us like to go thru the woods as
quite as possible and have a system or methodology in the way we carry
our equipment in the woods while hunting---I sometimes just go into the
woods with a bullet board. starter , measure and a small horn that
carries only 4 or five shots---just as my bullet board does---this is a
day hunt setup---and the need to carry much more is not required or
necessary---the horn,  bullet board measure and starter are on a whang
around my neck and stuck in my upper pocket or inside my coat or shirt
depending on the weather------no clang bang or noise---no need for
anything else except for a knife to field dress with--and a small section
of rope to use in dragging or tying the critters together if i am
squirrel or rabbit hunting---

I personally feel that the mountain men would set up a base camp to hunt
or trap out of and would casha that stuff not needed on a daly
basis---then would use a small day horn or like system(whatever you call
it) to get fresh meat or to run the traplines and food seeking
trecks---its a lot better to loose a small amount of important stuff than
the whole load of it---just my humbel opinion of course---hope I have
made my point---


and again this is just my humbel opinion of course---no written word just
common sense and practicality in work---thanks for listing to my
wandering on the subject---

YMHOSANT
  =+=
HAWK
Michael Pierce        "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line "  trademark (C)
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor florida 34684
E-Mail: [e-mail]   Web site:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:32:00 -0600
From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a country

Dave,
I can't reply because it would be personal!
Joe
Have a look at our web site @ www.dteworld.com/absarokawesterndesign/
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:26:36 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a UGLY country...Go to Yellowstone Park

Fellers,
You guys are wrong!  Wyoming is a horrid desert, mostly flat and ugly.  Of no
interest to the general public.  Shuffle all the touristas into the wonders of
Yellowstone Park so they'll be happy with their own ilk...all 10 million of
'em...keep the rest of them awful horrid places unpeopled.

Rick




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------------------------------

Date: 15 May 00 16:17:54 EDT
From: Concho Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: priming horn]

[e-mail] wrote:
guys---
I personally feel that the mountain men would set up a base camp to hunt
or trap out of and would casha that stuff not needed on a daly
basis---then would use a small day horn or like system(whatever you call
it) to get fresh meat or to run the traplines and food seeking
trecks---its a lot better to loose a small amount of important stuff than=

the whole load of it---just my humbel opinion of course---hope I have
made my point---

Your idea Hawk is hitting the nail right on head, and the way that Curly =
G.,
Charley Hanson and Vern Bigsby at a conference in the early 80's saw it a=
lso,
the trapper would setup a base camp, a cache (incase the camp was discove=
red)
and carry just what was needed for a day or two - when away from camp. On=
e
good point was powder, he wouldn't carry all his powder in a large horn, =
what
if it got wet ot worst yet lost - stolen - etc., same goes with having al=
l his
gear with him.  They made a good point in there thinking and what they ha=
d
researched.

Later

Concho

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------------------------------

Date: 15 May 00 16:32:26 EDT
From: Concho Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Mackinaw boat]

"Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]> wrote:

Most could be sailed and usually with a simple square sail in the center.=
=2E.

Hey Roger,

We where on the Missouri heading down from Ft. Osage to Ft. deChartre. Be=
hind
some guys in one of these boats, they decided to try and sail it, got a c=
ross
wind and lost control long enough to sail into an old barrage.
We picked up bits and pieces of damaged boat, a water barrel and misc.
personal gear for several miles, some how they made it to the Mississippi=

before giving up or tired of bailing water. Seems that the bigger the boa=
t the
harder to correct the direction when under sail.

Later

Concho. =



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:28:42 +0100
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)

All this talk about metal and powder horns prompts me to query--If powder
was and is today stored in cans of ferrous material, why are we so concerned
about only using non-ferrous metals with our horns?  I ask this question
because I know iron staples were used to attach straps to horns.  Were these
only inserted far enough that the tips did not go through and thus come in
contact with the powder or are there examples where they did go through and
they just weren't worried about a static charge?  I ask this question
because I would like to use the button on the butt-end of a musket stock as
the strap attachment for a powderhorn.

Thanks

Rick

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
[e-mail]
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 7:32 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)


longwalker
I have a powder can that is shaped like a flask with a cork plug---it
also has 2 small steel rings on the sides---havent seen one like it that
was made after 1900 or found any other documentatiuon on it---it is
american made but no dates that i can see or find if i get the scanner up
and running any time soon will scan and send you a picture if it---I have
a good view of it with my hawken pistol that a friend who is a comercial
photographer took ---he wanted a pistol and a powder flask that would be
different and unique for one of his customers---dont know what he will
use the photo for but he gave me a copy of the print---

best to you

YMHOSANT

HAWK
Michael Pierce        "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line "  trademark (C)
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor florida 34684
E-Mail: [e-mail]   Web site:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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------------------------------

Date: 15 May 00 16:37:35 EDT
From: Concho Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: What a country]

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ratcliff <[e-mail]>
I have always sensed big medicine along the Hoback.  Just seems like
something's watching over the place.  Strong and peaceful.  One of my
favorite places.
Lanney =

________________________________________

In 1978 several of us (5) - spent 5-6 weeks on the Hoback and as you say =
the
feeling was very special, like nothing felt before.

Later

Concho.

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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:57:22 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What a country

- --------------96EE4584C89B8816AC3E0685
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have a wonderful beach, sandy shores, great year round weather, green
trees everywhere, and a few hurricanes to trade for a view like you guys
have.   There is no place like home, there is no place like home....who
hid my ruby slippers???????

Linda Holley


> O.K. which one of you let out the info on Wyoming, We like our
> population
>  some where below half a million.
>                                         somewhere on the Big Horn
> River  PTBIW
>
>                                  Sikapi  Makui---------------><}}}>
>                                  James H Seward.............AMM.. 1189

- --------------96EE4584C89B8816AC3E0685
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<b>I have a wonderful beach, sandy shores, great year round weather, green
trees everywhere, and a few hurricanes to trade for a view like you guys
have.   There is no place like home, there is no place like home....who
hid my ruby slippers???????</b><b></b>
<p><b>Linda Holley</b>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><b><font face="Comic Sans MS">O.K. which one of you
let out the info on Wyoming, We like our population</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Comic Sans MS"> some where below half a million.</font></b>
<br><b><font face="Comic Sans MS">
somewhere on the Big Horn River  PTBIW</font></b>
<p><b><font face="Comic Sans MS">
Sikapi  Makui---------------><}}}></font></b>
<br><b><font face="Comic Sans MS">
James H Seward.............AMM.. 1189</font></b></blockquote>
</html>

- --------------96EE4584C89B8816AC3E0685--


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:59:41 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)

Rick,

The iron staples don't go all the way to the inside of the horn so that is
not a consideration. As to being concerned about using non-ferrous
materials, I'm not sure who that is. I'm not concerned since as you point
out powder comes in  steel cans anyway. The non-ferrous metals will conduct
electricity just as easily as steel, probably easier. The difference is that
they do not "spark" as in "hot burning metal fragments". I personally don't
think there is any danger. If you want to make a powder container of steel
it will be as safe as one made of copper.

Working around explosives is a different matter. When we load ships with any
munitions and must shore the containers against movement at sea, we always
use non sparking hammers (made of bronze I believe). That way no spark is
struck from the hammer blow against the nail. That is the type of spark that
sets BP off. I believe it has been well proven that a static electric spark
does not have enough heat in it to ignite BP.

The biggest reason I can think of to use non ferrous metals for spouts and
such is corrosion/rust prevention and it is usually easier to work with but
I am sure a steel spout would work just fine. Hope that answers your
concerns. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:13:41 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Mackinaw boat]

Concho,

Most of those types of boats don't work well with sail unless they are
equipped with leeboards to keep the boat from sliding sideways. I doubt
leeboards were traditionally used so a square sail is usually only good with
running with the wind or only slightly off to windward. The Vikings and big
square sail Sailors got away with it because their boats/ships had a bit of
keel and some ballast to keep them down in the water or with the deeper
keel, from sliding sideways to a degree. They also had more sea room to
turn. But changing direction with a square sail is often done more like a
"loop", falling off to leeward and then coming back into the wind on a
different tack than with other styles of sail where you can just cross the
wind on a simple tack manuver.

Do you know what style of sail they were using? If you brought up the URL I
posted of the Mackenzie boat under sail it had a "jib" forward with two
lateen sails on the two masts. A lateen sail is a big improvement over a
square sail and will allow sailing with more directional control and closer
to the wind. Easier to tack with too.

Bigger boats are harder to deal with too. But I sure would like to try. <G>
Capt. L



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:12:22 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: priming horn

Ok guys.  How about a different slant on the priming horn question ?  Can
anyone document 4f powder, and in what quantiies ?  Can anyone document it
going to the mountains in the pre-1840 period ?  I don't recall ever seeing
a reference to 4f or superfine powder.  It seems to me if there wasn't any
priming powder to be had, then they didn't have a need for a priming horn.
Hmmm just a thought.
Pendleton
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Earp <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, May 15, 2000 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: priming horn


Tony,

I talked to Jim at the annual Horner's Guild meeting last month and he's
a very nice and knowledgeable gentleman.  Unfortuntely, we didn't get
around to discussing priming horns.  I have talked to Roland Cadle on
several occasions ( past president of the Horner's Guild ) and he's of
the opinion that any small horn was a day horn and mostly 19th century.
That's not to say priming horns didn't exist then, but I haven't been able
to document one as yet other than those use to prime cannons.

Dennis

>Hi Steve, A couple years ago I had a conversation with Jim Dresslar the
>author of "The Engraved Powder Horn", and probably the countries foremost
>authority on powder horns, and he also mentioned that there are very few
>references in period documents to priming horns, and that priming horns
>generally weren't used by many folks.


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:02:27 -0500
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: priming horn

- -----Original Message-----
From: larry pendleton <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: May 15, 2000 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: priming horn


.  It seems to me if there wasn't any
>priming powder to be had, then they didn't have a need for a priming horn.
>Hmmm just a thought.
>Pendleton

And a good one at that Larry, I think you may be on to something.  Seems to
me a good argument could be made against the use of priming powder and horns
just on the basis of practicality. Kind of the "keep it simple" principle.
Why would you use and carry something that wasn't necessary?
I do know that the small horns I have that I thought might be priming horns
did in fact contain powder. They weren't salt or cap horns. I think at the
very least it can be said that there is not a lot of evidence that shows
that priming horns were actually used.

T. Clark


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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:30:37 -0600
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: What I meant to say....

Hello the list,

I did not mean to start ANOTHER fight on this list.  The "What a Country"
topic was to share with all, that there's still some wonderful country out
there, and it's the ground that we have a mutual interest in.  That's why I
posted.

I also do not like this list used as a chat room.  But if I get upset enough
about it, I guess I should open another interesting topic so that folks will
talk about it..........

I also HATE the population explosion that's going on here in the Rockies.
Tell all your friends that ask that whatever they HATE, we have in great
abundance here in Idaho and Wyoming and Montana and (add your favorite place
here).

Let's all get along, ok?

Now for some socially redeeming info for this post.......let's see....  Ok,
if you need beeswax, go to a honey dealer/manufacturer.  Here I can get it
for $3 a pound, which is a whole lot cheaper than rendezvous/mountain
prices.  It's good for a number of things not the least of which is making
moccasins more water resistant for those of us that go out in whatever the
weather has to offer.


Allen Hall from Fort Hall country that is full of nasty rotten bugs, snakes,
no water, rednecks, horrible weather, obnoxious people, wolves that will eat
your dogs, grizzly bears that will eat you and what ever else you really
hate.  Oh yeah and nuclear waste, we've got lots of that too........




At 10:42 PM 05/14/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>At 11:20 PM 05/14/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>
>>Are you trying to tell me that is OK for your "old boys club" to converse
>>publicly on the list, but everyone else should do it privately?
>
>Hey, I finally made it to an "old boys club".  Is that good or bad.
>
>>It's a chat room for old, retired guys to relive their past with no concern
>>for others on the list who are hoping for an exchange of ideas and
>>information, rather than personal BS.  And Yeah, a lot of them are my friends
>>too.
>
>Made it to the "old boys club" and I'm not even retired!
>
>Well, for some socially redeeming value to this e-mail.  For you new brain
>tanning folks, plan on braining your hides at least twice.  I'm working on a
>big mule deer hide.  It came about 2/3's out with the second braining, and
>oughta be dandy on the third one.
>
>And while you've got all that great brain juice, drop in a couple of more
>hides for their first go around.
>
>Brain tanning is a lot of physical work, but well worth the effort.  It's
>not all that difficult (but is time consuming) to turn out stuff that costs
>at least $10 a square foot to buy.  Put it into a slightly different
>perspective, that's about $90 a yard.
>
>In the past I've dry scraped, but am trying wet scrape this go around.  Many
>folks say that wet scrape gives a fluffier hide than dry, but I've not found
>that myself.
>
>Good luck!
>
>Allen Hall in Fort Hall country
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>


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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:23:49 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)

Static electricity is the villain. When pouring powder from a metal or
plastic container a static charge can build up. If the container makes
contact with another conductive object, such as your hand, Surprise! This
can be obviated by using a clip on static strap to bleed off any charge as
it occurs.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, May 15, 2000 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)


>Rick,
>
>The iron staples don't go all the way to the inside of the horn so that is
>not a consideration. As to being concerned about using non-ferrous
>materials, I'm not sure who that is. I'm not concerned since as you point
>out powder comes in  steel cans anyway. The non-ferrous metals will conduct
>electricity just as easily as steel, probably easier. The difference is
that
>they do not "spark" as in "hot burning metal fragments". I personally don't
>think there is any danger. If you want to make a powder container of steel
>it will be as safe as one made of copper.
>
>Working around explosives is a different matter. When we load ships with
any
>munitions and must shore the containers against movement at sea, we always
>use non sparking hammers (made of bronze I believe). That way no spark is
>struck from the hammer blow against the nail. That is the type of spark
that
>sets BP off. I believe it has been well proven that a static electric spark
>does not have enough heat in it to ignite BP.
>
>The biggest reason I can think of to use non ferrous metals for spouts and
>such is corrosion/rust prevention and it is usually easier to work with but
>I am sure a steel spout would work just fine. Hope that answers your
>concerns. I remain.....
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:16:33 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What I meant to say....

> I did not mean to start ANOTHER fight on this list.

Allen,
Don't give it another thought.  You didn't start anything, you just happened
to be standing by the fire when the pot boiled over.  No doubt you are quick
enough that you didn't get burned.  This pot has been brewing for quit a
while, with lots standing around the fire, but none tending it.

>  I also do not like this list used as a chat room.

Welcome to the minority.

>  I also HATE the population explosion that's going on here in the Rockies.

How do you think our Red Brothers felt when the land and money hungry white
man took over his land?  History has a way of repeating itself, don't it?

>  Let's all get along, ok?

 Always a Utopian dream, but never really possible in everyday life.  I sent
this to another list, but it might also be appropriate here at this given
time.

.............................................................................
"No! for such has been our education, that we hesitate not to devote years
and expend millions in the detection and punishment of crimes, and in the
attainment of objects whose ultimate results are, in comparison with this,
insignificancy itself: and yet we have not moved one step in the true path to
prevent crimes, and to diminish the innumerable evils with which mankind are
now afflicted.

Are these false principles of conduct in those who govern the world to
influence mankind permanently? And if not, how, and when is the change to
commence?"

A New View of Society [by]
Robert Owen  1813

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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:32:40 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What I meant to say....

Let's not forget that the most feared critter of all exists in large flocks
in any part of Wyoming that has scenery of any kind: the Ocean Pacific
crested tourist! They are also known to drag along the product of vigorous
procreating, SUVs, two stroke motorcycles and ATVs, and those horrid
mountain bikes. Of course the locals put out bait to attract them. Bait such
as mountains, clean air, staggering scenery, motels, miniature golf courses,
factory outlet stores, river rides, horse stables, and museums. La!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, May 15, 2000 7:31 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: What I meant to say....


>Hello the list,
>
>I did not mean to start ANOTHER fight on this list.  The "What a Country"
>topic was to share with all, that there's still some wonderful country out
>there, and it's the ground that we have a mutual interest in.  That's why I
>posted.
>
>I also do not like this list used as a chat room.  But if I get upset
enough
>about it, I guess I should open another interesting topic so that folks
will
>talk about it..........
>
>I also HATE the population explosion that's going on here in the Rockies.
>Tell all your friends that ask that whatever they HATE, we have in great
>abundance here in Idaho and Wyoming and Montana and (add your favorite
place
>here).
>
>Let's all get along, ok?
>
>Now for some socially redeeming info for this post.......let's see....  Ok,
>if you need beeswax, go to a honey dealer/manufacturer.  Here I can get it
>for $3 a pound, which is a whole lot cheaper than rendezvous/mountain
>prices.  It's good for a number of things not the least of which is making
>moccasins more water resistant for those of us that go out in whatever the
>weather has to offer.
>
>
>Allen Hall from Fort Hall country that is full of nasty rotten bugs,
snakes,
>no water, rednecks, horrible weather, obnoxious people, wolves that will
eat
>your dogs, grizzly bears that will eat you and what ever else you really
>hate.  Oh yeah and nuclear waste, we've got lots of that too........
>
>
>
>
>At 10:42 PM 05/14/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>>At 11:20 PM 05/14/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>>
>>>Are you trying to tell me that is OK for your "old boys club" to converse
>>>publicly on the list, but everyone else should do it privately?
>>
>>Hey, I finally made it to an "old boys club".  Is that good or bad.
>>
>>>It's a chat room for old, retired guys to relive their past with no
concern
>>>for others on the list who are hoping for an exchange of ideas and
>>>information, rather than personal BS.  And Yeah, a lot of them are my
friends
>>>too.
>>
>>Made it to the "old boys club" and I'm not even retired!
>>
>>Well, for some socially redeeming value to this e-mail.  For you new brain
>>tanning folks, plan on braining your hides at least twice.  I'm working on
a
>>big mule deer hide.  It came about 2/3's out with the second braining, and
>>oughta be dandy on the third one.
>>
>>And while you've got all that great brain juice, drop in a couple of more
>>hides for their first go around.
>>
>>Brain tanning is a lot of physical work, but well worth the effort.  It's
>>not all that difficult (but is time consuming) to turn out stuff that
costs
>>at least $10 a square foot to buy.  Put it into a slightly different
>>perspective, that's about $90 a yard.
>>
>>In the past I've dry scraped, but am trying wet scrape this go around.
Many
>>folks say that wet scrape gives a fluffier hide than dry, but I've not
found
>>that myself.
>>
>>Good luck!
>>
>>Allen Hall in Fort Hall country
>>
>>
>>----------------------
>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:38:34 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)

You just need to be grounded if this possibility worries you. Bare feet, or sopping wet moccs
make excellent ground straps. In drier climates, try stepping on a low cactus while pouring.

   :]


> Static electricity is the villain. When pouring powder from a metal or
> plastic container a static charge can build up. If the container makes
> contact with another conductive object, such as your hand, Surprise! This
> can be obviated by using a clip on static strap to bleed off any charge as
> it occurs.

Kristopher K. Barrett

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:38:06 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: powder "horns?"(flask or can)

> Static electricity is the villain. When pouring powder from a metal or
>  plastic container a static charge can build up. If the container makes
>  contact with another conductive object, such as your hand, Surprise! This
>  can be obviated by using a clip on static strap to bleed off any charge as
>  it occurs.

Bill,
This is basically an old wive's tale.  Static electricity will not set off
black powder which ignites at approx. 450 degrees.  Static electricity
contains very high voltage, but no amps.  It is the amps which generate the
heat.  Numerous studies have proven this to be true.  The static electricity
that causes explosions in powder factories is due to the dust exploding, not
the powder itself.  The same thing happens in grain elevators and feed mills.

However, a steel can rubbed against a rock or other spark generating medium
will produce a spark which is really red-hot steel.  This will ignite the
powder just the same way a flint lock does.  That is why non-sparking metals
are generally used to transfer flammable substances.

As an aside, I received an alert this week that battery operated devices such
as cell phones, transistor radios, CD players, etc will be banned from the
fueling points of gasoline stations.  I don't know how the yuppies are going
to be able to handle filliing up their cars withou yacking on their cell
phones in the process.

Dave Kanger

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:12:27 -0500
From: "shadowwalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Black Powder

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello all ,=20
                   I'm new to the list but had a question.     I was =
wondering where the <1840'ers got their powder. Did they but at =
rendezvous ? Or did they buy large amounts when they did get into a =
town? If they bought large amounts how did they keep it dry and safe? =
Also, does anyone know of a source of historically acurrate black powder =
manufacturing info?


                               Have a Good'un
                                              Shadowalker

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello all , </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>          &nbs=
p;       =20
I'm new to the list but had a question.     I was =
wondering=20
where the <1840'ers got their powder. Did they but at rendezvous ? Or =
did=20
they buy large amounts when they did get into a town? If they bought =
large=20
amounts how did they keep it dry and safe? Also, does anyone know of a =
source of=20
historically acurrate black powder manufacturing info?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>          &nbs=
p;            =
;       =20
Have a Good'un</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>          &nbs=
p;            =
;            =
          =20
Shadowalker</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFBEBA.A7656DA0--


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:20:38 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Literature/Historical Experience/Quotes, etc.

Hallo the Camp:

One of the things I enjoy is reading quotations, short experiences,
historical information that we all find, enjoy and might like to share.  I
certainly enjoy having my questions answered and learning the answers to
questions that haven't come into my experience.

I would like to ask that anyone with short "literature" they have found in
journals, written themselves, or otherwise, post the list and share these
readings.  I don't care if it's a one-liner, or a couple of paragraphs, but I
find Fur-Trade era fact and fiction highly interesting.

How about Neihardt's "The Mountain Men," . . .

"And naked hill -- as in a fairy tale
Remembered in a dream.  And when the flare
Of sunset died behind them, and the air
Went weird and deepened to a purple gloom,
They saw the white Enchanted Castles loom
Above them, slowly pass and drift a-rear,
Dissolving in the starry crystal sphere . . . "

Or

"Baled three-point-blankets, blue and scarlet cloth,
Rum, powder, flour, guns, gauderies and lead.
And all about, goodbyes are being said.
Gauche girls with rainy April in their gaze
Cling to their beardless heroes and count the days
Between this parting and the wedded morn . . .

What can I say?  I'm a collector of words, wisdom, and experience(s) - I hope
to hear those words, wisdom, and the authentic experience(s) which belong to
each of you.

[e-mail]

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