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hist_text-digest         Friday, May 12 2000         Volume 01 : Number 547



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: priming horn
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: New to list
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: priming horn
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: priming horn
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Gourds
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: D. Camp
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: New to list
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Gourds
-áááááá MtMan-List: Appology's
-áááááá MtMan-List: Bounced Mail
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis
-áááááá MtMan-List: Texas rangers (slightly OT)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:37:54 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: priming horn

I can't believe you admitted to using a little brass thingy to prime with!
You got balls, Man!
Larry Huber
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Fusco <[e-mail]>
To: MM <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:35 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: priming horn


>     When I started this ml business with a flinter I started using a
primer
> horn and 4f because I was told that was the correct thing to do and
everyone
> else I observed did the same.
>     At times I have tried priming from my big horn with no apparent
> difference in results.  Using my smooth bore, a Brown Bess, I only prime
> from big horn.
>     However on my rifles I still use a priming horn and [this is going to
> get screams] one of those brass spring loaded devices.  The reason is that
I
> find it difficult to prime just a tiny bit into the pan with the main horn
> and often spill. That is not only sloppy but potentially dangerous. Also,
I
> must admit, I use the small primer out of habit and I like it.  May not
make
> all that much difference in shooting but it is what I have gotten used to.
>     There are reference books that show priming horns from 'back then', so
> they are correct. I plead mea culpa to my little brass thingy.
> Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

- ----------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:00:38 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.

well said CPT L---now lets all go back to normal---You are a exceptional
good in expressing the writen word far better than i could have.  and you
as usuall did your homework and put a lot of thought into your
response---

HAWK
Michael Pierce        "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line "  trademark (C)
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor florida 34684
E-Mail: [e-mail]   Web site:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:22:01 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.

In a message dated 5/12/00 1:29:08 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< You folks have the room for all these people and more,each one of you is
no
more or no less than the other and you are all very lucky.
YMOS
Cutfinger >>

It's good that you point it out, Cutfinger......

Ymos,
Steve

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:30:21 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New to list

Hi, Helen, welcome to the list and to the life.
    In order to give you good advice, I'd need more information.  Are you
talking about leather or cloth?  European/American or Native Indian?
Contrary to common belief, most folks started West wearing cloth (not
leather)and bought cloth whenever they got back to civilization.  Indians
living near posts or forts wore cloth for comfort, style and status.
Leather and buffalo robes were traditionally attainable in the wild but
cotton, linen and wool just felt better.  So, are YOU dressing as an Indian
woman or a settler/habitant?  If there's no native blood in you or your
coloring doesn't reflect that culture, you would probably look better as a
"white" woman ("White" meaning civilization.  Spanish and African blood
lines also wore "civilized" clothing).
Rendezvous are FILLED with white Indian captives!  For easy to digest and
understand research try the Book of Buckskinning series.  Some of the best
period dress tailors have articles in those works.
    My wife and I were born and bred in Minnesota so our personal link with
history was French voyagers.  This is an all cloth culture.  Voyagers(guys
who paddled the canoes and carried the goods) dressed in linen, wool and
cotton.  They were in and out of water all day long and cloth dries faster
than leather.  Fort William and Grand Portage dress their reenactors in
cotton shirts and corduroy trousers, narrow fall.  All Indian personnel are
generally dressed in cloth which pretty much sums up all the historic forts
I've visited.  For French dress I recommend: Historic Colonial French Dress
by the ladies Johnson, Forbes and Delaney.  Good research but crude drawings
and illustrations.  The clothing patterns are usable for an experienced
seamstress, however. For English and German dress (which is similar) try
Tidings from the 18th Century by Beth Gilgun.  18th Century sound too early
for you?  The clothing styles overlapped the centuries and rarely changed
among working folk.  Even so, get Rural Pennsylvania Clothing by Ellen J.
Gehret for conformation of this statement.  This is a scholarly work and the
"bible" for clothing recreators doing living history.
    Insist upon going "Injun"?  I'm less of a help there.  However, If your
interested in Eastern tribes and the influences white settlers had on their
material culture and dress try: Indian Clothing of the Great Lakes:
1740-1840 by Sheryl Hartman.  Sincere drawings and usable patterns but great
information.
    But what about LEATHER?!  Okay, okay.  Moccasins were leather.  I refer
to the Craft Manual of North American Indian Footware by George M. White.
Again, Mr. White is a better historian than artist but this little booklet
contains about every known pattern of Indian footgear,  Invaluable.  I have
made several pairs of moccasins for myself and friends out of this book.
    What about your man?  All the works I've quoted contain patterns for him
as well as you.  The Sketchbook series (Mountain Man, Voyager, Longhunter
etc.)contain good information and usable patterns and I've made items of
clothing out of them.  The Cut of Men's Clothes, 1600-1900  by Norah Waugh
(Great name!)is a good history and usable for tailoring techniques but was
not a very useful book for me.  The Latest Sketchbook out there is The 1837
Sketchbook of the Western Fur Trade by Allen Norman which documents the
clothing of the American Fur Company employee from drawings by Alfred J.
Miller.  This work inspired me to acquire my first set of leather trousers.
    I'm out of words.  Short of introducing you to my wife who has largely
made all the cloth articles of clothing for our family over the years(she
refuses to touch leather!) that's the best I can do from California.  A
great adventure lies ahead for you, Helen.  Welcome to our little piece of
history.

"Shoots-the-Prairie" Larry Huber
#1517
- ----- Original Message -----
From: elenyte <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:52 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: New to list


> Hi,
> I'm new to the list and am interested in sewing clothing for my husband
and
> I for mountain man impression. I'd like to chat with other folks on the
list
> who are doing the same so that I can locate patterns or instructions and
> also learn to do this "right". I live just west of Denver.
>
> Helen
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:24:44 -0600
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis

Paul,
Just a point of information, the term NAZI stands for political party if you
are going to slap someone with a name it should be= "Authenticity Gestapo".
Just thought I would correct you (ha ha)
YMOS
Ole
- ----------
>From: "Paul W. Jones" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis
>Date: Thu, May 11, 2000, 10:23 AM
>

>Dear List Members...
>
>For what my opinion is worth, if we can not let this dog (topic) die, at
>least give up the subject  line using the term "Nazis."  It is an extremely
>offensive term, and one to which, I at least, take particular umbrage.
>
>Additionally, while I do appreciate to a degree, the sensitivity of some of
>our list members, as expressed by the material below between Julia and
>Bobbie, I respectfully suggest that such comments are better directed off
>list as between the interested parties and not to the list at large.
>
>This list is for a dedicated purpose, and while humor and venom often seem
>to creep (creep hell, it flows like lava) in to our conversations, I would
>think it a better practice to keep the personal comments personal and off
>the list.
>
>Just my thoughts.  Regards,  Paul
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Julia <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 5:27 AM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis
>
>
>> My heart goes to you,  Bobbie,
>>
>> >   Thanks, Ole, for acknowledging that what was said was hurtful.  It
>seems
>> >to have escaped everyone else on this list.
>>
>> I was not lost on me,  but I have never been made welcome on this
>> list,  so I offer very little.   I have been very tempted to withdraw
>> from this list over the list over this too.
>>
>> >    Tonight I'm mourning the fact that my hometown is going up in flames.
>> >Two weeks ago, I saw my childhood home, and tonight I read the words that
>> >it is all gone.  Gone.  Now the fire is spreading into one of the poorest
>> >counties in the nation, including two Indian Pueblos.  Those people can't
>> >afford to lose anymore.  They have so little.
>>
>> Tears fill my eyes,   I want to help!  What can I do?  Let me know!
>> All of this list stuff seem so unimportant when REAL  tragedy strikes.
>> If it is raising money or goods,  I will do it.
>> Give me details,  I want to do what will help!
>>
>> Julia
>> in Oregon
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:09:36 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: priming horn

Somewhere around here I have an ancient shotgun set up - a long pouch that
holds shot and powder both. On the double end it has first a brass powder
measure and on the other a shot measure/scoop that is twisted and removed,
pulling forth a premeasured  load of shot. It is very old, dating from the
mid 1800's and comes from Ireland. I haven't researched priming devices, but
have seen paintings of metal powder "horns". Someone can probably both prove
and disprove the authenticity of brass powder measures.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Larry Huber <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: priming horn


>I can't believe you admitted to using a little brass thingy to prime with!
>You got balls, Man!
>Larry Huber
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Frank Fusco <[e-mail]>
>To: MM <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:35 AM
>Subject: MtMan-List: priming horn
>
>
>>     When I started this ml business with a flinter I started using a
>primer
>> horn and 4f because I was told that was the correct thing to do and
>everyone
>> else I observed did the same.
>>     At times I have tried priming from my big horn with no apparent
>> difference in results.  Using my smooth bore, a Brown Bess, I only prime
>> from big horn.
>>     However on my rifles I still use a priming horn and [this is going to
>> get screams] one of those brass spring loaded devices.  The reason is
that
>I
>> find it difficult to prime just a tiny bit into the pan with the main
horn
>> and often spill. That is not only sloppy but potentially dangerous. Also,
>I
>> must admit, I use the small primer out of habit and I like it.  May not
>make
>> all that much difference in shooting but it is what I have gotten used
to.
>>     There are reference books that show priming horns from 'back then',
so
>> they are correct. I plead mea culpa to my little brass thingy.
>> Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:43:45 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan Macready" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.


> You folks don't know how lucky you are in the USofA, you have a rich
> ,exciting and colorful pioneering past which is recent enough to be
> accessible thru writings, paintings, lists, artifacts,and accurate
> historical research

Cutfinger,

Oh, I know how lucky we are. It isn't infrequently that I thank my Finnish
Grandparents for giving me the opportunity to be born in America rather than
any number of places they could have gone. There are a lot of other things I
am thankful for in my life but that has to be the top's. I suspect most of
the rest of us feel the same way.

It never hurts to be reminded of it. Thanks for that. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:00:55 -0400
From: "Dennis Earp" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: priming horn

List,

On the subject of priming horns, has anyone ever came across primary
documentation on the use of priming horns for 1750-1830 period in
America?  I've found documentation for priming horns that were used
for cannons, but as yet have not been able to find it for rifles.  I know
there are some shown in reference books, but I don't believe they were
ever authenicated as to the time period and some claim they are actually
late 19th century "day" horns.

Dennis


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:53:35 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gourds

> Walt,> You stated that...........Gourds would not have been present in the
initial years 1807-1825.
> Can you tell us why?? Just curious.  Lou Sickler> Colorado Territory

Good morning Lou,

I can tell you how this statement about the Clark Bottom Rendez-vous came
about.  When I had my first opportunity to attend a rendezvous it was above
Park City and was called Freezeout"  When the Red Lodge Mountain Man
Rendezvous started up in 89 I started pitching my lodge.  I had 2 chunks of
history pretaining to historic camps in the area that were being overlooked.
I took the opportunity of discussing around the camp for years.  One year a
half a dozen southern rocky mountain man camps showed up and a whole bunch
of new information became available to me.

What I wanted to do was honor the history on the actual site.  While at the
same time I wanted to be able to illustright the whole history of the fur
trade on this location called Clark Bottom.  In 1806 Captain Clark spent 6
days in the area.  The longest camp along the Yellowstone.  John Colter, the
first American Mountain Man spent the winter of 1807 camped on the Clarks
Fork with Dixon and Handcock.  This is the beginning of the American
Mountain Man movement which is world-wide today.  The next winter he spent
near Jackson Hole, Wyoming.  Wyoming has a rich history of the pony trades
exploits.

I use 1825 as the other cut off date in the time line because the rendezvous
system employed alterered the state conditions here on the Clarks Fork of
the Yellowstone area considerably.  The pony traders system established up
the North Platte River route provided the basis for probes to the south
along the eastern front range of the rockies.  I think this mountain man
traffic south and north provided by the pony traders could have brought
gourds and other things from the south after 1825 because the basis for
exchange is there.  A bit earlier probes were launched off towards
California.

It is just my opinion and only counts for this camp beyond that camp I do
not consider myself an authority at all, just another voice.  Thanks for
asking.
Walt
Park City, Montana








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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:16:10 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: D. Camp

> PS, on the last line, Walt, is the Clark Bottom 'voo juried tightly? Or
does> "anything" (pre 1840)go?> Just curious...And that question is not mean
spirited in any way, but I bet> it can be construed as such, cause remember,
I am "insensitive"....> D


Hi D.,
Juried tightly.  You can count on me not to try to hurt your feelings in
anyway.  I value the question.  Clark Bottom Rendez-vous which I spell in
the French manner has been set up to incorporate a wide spectrum of the fur
trade history as a show and tell educational event.  I have 25 acres
surrounded by a 1000 more for the site of the CBR encampment.  This year I
applied for 25 camp permits.  The design plan for the over all camp layout
permits a wide variety without one camp being in sight of another if that is
desirable.  The area is complete with clearings that work well with the
concept.  This is not a comercial camp.  It is a quiet camp made for
learning exchanges with some public access.  And a whole lot of rich history
which can be visited within sight.  You might be interested in how I have
the camp arranged and how I deal with time frames.  Long answer but it is
yes.  And I can incorporate river bottom camps, horse camps, old hands and
the newest beginners with this arrangement.  At least it has been working
and growing for 3 years now.  With this being our 4th.  Our target year is
2006.
Walt
Park City, Montana


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:46:15 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.

Thanks Hawk. Sometimes I say too much so I will learn from that and shut up!
<G> (with one last post on the subject just coming up <G>) Now let's get
back to "Normal"?! <G> Capt. L
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.


> well said CPT L---now lets all go back to normal---You are a exceptional
> good in expressing the writen word far better than i could have.  and you
> as usuall did your homework and put a lot of thought into your
> response---
>
> HAWK
> Michael Pierce        "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line "  trademark (C)
> 854 Glenfield Dr.
> Palm Harbor florida 34684
> E-Mail: [e-mail]   Web site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
> Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
> Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:51:12 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New to list

Larry,

Now this is one fine piece of work and worth repeating! Capt. L
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New to list


> Hi, Helen, welcome to the list and to the life.
>     In order to give you good advice, I'd need more information.  Are you
> talking about leather or cloth?  European/American or Native Indian?
> Contrary to common belief, most folks started West wearing cloth (not
> leather)and bought cloth whenever they got back to civilization.  Indians
> living near posts or forts wore cloth for comfort, style and status.
> Leather and buffalo robes were traditionally attainable in the wild but
> cotton, linen and wool just felt better.  So, are YOU dressing as an
Indian
> woman or a settler/habitant?  If there's no native blood in you or your
> coloring doesn't reflect that culture, you would probably look better as a
> "white" woman ("White" meaning civilization.  Spanish and African blood
> lines also wore "civilized" clothing).
> Rendezvous are FILLED with white Indian captives!  For easy to digest and
> understand research try the Book of Buckskinning series.  Some of the best
> period dress tailors have articles in those works.
>     My wife and I were born and bred in Minnesota so our personal link
with
> history was French voyagers.  This is an all cloth culture.  Voyagers(guys
> who paddled the canoes and carried the goods) dressed in linen, wool and
> cotton.  They were in and out of water all day long and cloth dries faster
> than leather.  Fort William and Grand Portage dress their reenactors in
> cotton shirts and corduroy trousers, narrow fall.  All Indian personnel
are
> generally dressed in cloth which pretty much sums up all the historic
forts
> I've visited.  For French dress I recommend: Historic Colonial French
Dress
> by the ladies Johnson, Forbes and Delaney.  Good research but crude
drawings
> and illustrations.  The clothing patterns are usable for an experienced
> seamstress, however. For English and German dress (which is similar) try
> Tidings from the 18th Century by Beth Gilgun.  18th Century sound too
early
> for you?  The clothing styles overlapped the centuries and rarely changed
> among working folk.  Even so, get Rural Pennsylvania Clothing by Ellen J.
> Gehret for conformation of this statement.  This is a scholarly work and
the
> "bible" for clothing recreators doing living history.
>     Insist upon going "Injun"?  I'm less of a help there.  However, If
your
> interested in Eastern tribes and the influences white settlers had on
their
> material culture and dress try: Indian Clothing of the Great Lakes:
> 1740-1840 by Sheryl Hartman.  Sincere drawings and usable patterns but
great
> information.
>     But what about LEATHER?!  Okay, okay.  Moccasins were leather.  I
refer
> to the Craft Manual of North American Indian Footware by George M. White.
> Again, Mr. White is a better historian than artist but this little booklet
> contains about every known pattern of Indian footgear,  Invaluable.  I
have
> made several pairs of moccasins for myself and friends out of this book.
>     What about your man?  All the works I've quoted contain patterns for
him
> as well as you.  The Sketchbook series (Mountain Man, Voyager, Longhunter
> etc.)contain good information and usable patterns and I've made items of
> clothing out of them.  The Cut of Men's Clothes, 1600-1900  by Norah Waugh
> (Great name!)is a good history and usable for tailoring techniques but was
> not a very useful book for me.  The Latest Sketchbook out there is The
1837
> Sketchbook of the Western Fur Trade by Allen Norman which documents the
> clothing of the American Fur Company employee from drawings by Alfred J.
> Miller.  This work inspired me to acquire my first set of leather
trousers.
>     I'm out of words.  Short of introducing you to my wife who has largely
> made all the cloth articles of clothing for our family over the years(she
> refuses to touch leather!) that's the best I can do from California.  A
> great adventure lies ahead for you, Helen.  Welcome to our little piece of
> history.
>
> "Shoots-the-Prairie" Larry Huber
> #1517
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: elenyte <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:52 PM
> Subject: MtMan-List: New to list
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I'm new to the list and am interested in sewing clothing for my husband
> and
> > I for mountain man impression. I'd like to chat with other folks on the
> list
> > who are doing the same so that I can locate patterns or instructions and
> > also learn to do this "right". I live just west of Denver.
> >
> > Helen
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:58:34 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gourds

Walt,

Great post. Thanks. Capt. L
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gourds


>
> > Walt,> You stated that...........Gourds would not have been present in
the
> initial years 1807-1825.
> > Can you tell us why?? Just curious.  Lou Sickler> Colorado Territory
>
> Good morning Lou,
>
> I can tell you how this statement about the Clark Bottom Rendez-vous came
> about.  When I had my first opportunity to attend a rendezvous it was
above
> Park City and was called Freezeout"  When the Red Lodge Mountain Man
> Rendezvous started up in 89 I started pitching my lodge.  I had 2 chunks
of
> history pretaining to historic camps in the area that were being
overlooked.
> I took the opportunity of discussing around the camp for years.  One year
a
> half a dozen southern rocky mountain man camps showed up and a whole bunch
> of new information became available to me.
>
> What I wanted to do was honor the history on the actual site.  While at
the
> same time I wanted to be able to illustright the whole history of the fur
> trade on this location called Clark Bottom.  In 1806 Captain Clark spent 6
> days in the area.  The longest camp along the Yellowstone.  John Colter,
the
> first American Mountain Man spent the winter of 1807 camped on the Clarks
> Fork with Dixon and Handcock.  This is the beginning of the American
> Mountain Man movement which is world-wide today.  The next winter he spent
> near Jackson Hole, Wyoming.  Wyoming has a rich history of the pony trades
> exploits.
>
> I use 1825 as the other cut off date in the time line because the
rendezvous
> system employed alterered the state conditions here on the Clarks Fork of
> the Yellowstone area considerably.  The pony traders system established up
> the North Platte River route provided the basis for probes to the south
> along the eastern front range of the rockies.  I think this mountain man
> traffic south and north provided by the pony traders could have brought
> gourds and other things from the south after 1825 because the basis for
> exchange is there.  A bit earlier probes were launched off towards
> California.
>
> It is just my opinion and only counts for this camp beyond that camp I do
> not consider myself an authority at all, just another voice.  Thanks for
> asking.
> Walt
> Park City, Montana
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:09:15 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Appology's

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Hayden" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Cc: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity---------


> Greetings and many humble apologies to the list. I'm sorry I used the
> terms Authenticity Nazis. Bad choice of words. Really sorry.

I accept this man's words of apology for I know him to be a good man.  And
I wish that he had quit at that. <G> Sometimes the learning curve is steep.
I do not forgive the act, acts can not be taken back. Thoughtless words can
be.

Were I never to have said something I later regretted I might feel
differently but I too have said thoughtless things. There may be some who
can not accept the apology as it is meant. I do not choose to live my life
that way. Making mistakes is a part of growth and a part of being human. Let
us move  on from this. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:26:34 -0400
From: "D Miles" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Bounced Mail

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_013E_01BFBC1E.13175440
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Randy Hedden,
 Been trying to answer your email.. And it has been bouncing...I ain't =
ignoring ya....
D


"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
   http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
  "Knowing how is just the beginning"


- ------=_NextPart_000_013E_01BFBC1E.13175440
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Randy Hedden,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Been trying to answer your =
email.. And it has=20
been bouncing...I ain't ignoring ya....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math=20
e"<BR>          DOUBLE EDGE =

FORGE<BR>  Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements<BR>   =
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<=
/A><BR> =20
"Knowing how is just the beginning"<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_013E_01BFBC1E.13175440--


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:50:22 -0700
From: "Paul W. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis

Thank you.  I was aware of the political party significance.  However, as I
am sure that you understand, the word has taken on a much broader meaning in
the last half of the 20th century.  Regardless, it is offensive and was
intended by the users on this list to be offensive.  Besides, I do not
personally intend to slap anyone with a name.  Regards,  Paul
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ole B. Jensen <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis


> Paul,
> Just a point of information, the term NAZI stands for political party if
you
> are going to slap someone with a name it should be= "Authenticity
Gestapo".
> Just thought I would correct you (ha ha)
> YMOS
> Ole
> ----------
> >From: "Paul W. Jones" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis
> >Date: Thu, May 11, 2000, 10:23 AM
> >
>
> >Dear List Members...
> >
> >For what my opinion is worth, if we can not let this dog (topic) die, at
> >least give up the subject  line using the term "Nazis."  It is an
extremely
> >offensive term, and one to which, I at least, take particular umbrage.
> >
> >Additionally, while I do appreciate to a degree, the sensitivity of some
of
> >our list members, as expressed by the material below between Julia and
> >Bobbie, I respectfully suggest that such comments are better directed off
> >list as between the interested parties and not to the list at large.
> >
> >This list is for a dedicated purpose, and while humor and venom often
seem
> >to creep (creep hell, it flows like lava) in to our conversations, I
would
> >think it a better practice to keep the personal comments personal and off
> >the list.
> >
> >Just my thoughts.  Regards,  Paul
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Julia <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 5:27 AM
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis
> >
> >
> >> My heart goes to you,  Bobbie,
> >>
> >> >   Thanks, Ole, for acknowledging that what was said was hurtful.  It
> >seems
> >> >to have escaped everyone else on this list.
> >>
> >> I was not lost on me,  but I have never been made welcome on this
> >> list,  so I offer very little.   I have been very tempted to withdraw
> >> from this list over the list over this too.
> >>
> >> >    Tonight I'm mourning the fact that my hometown is going up in
flames.
> >> >Two weeks ago, I saw my childhood home, and tonight I read the words
that
> >> >it is all gone.  Gone.  Now the fire is spreading into one of the
poorest
> >> >counties in the nation, including two Indian Pueblos.  Those people
can't
> >> >afford to lose anymore.  They have so little.
> >>
> >> Tears fill my eyes,   I want to help!  What can I do?  Let me know!
> >> All of this list stuff seem so unimportant when REAL  tragedy strikes.
> >> If it is raising money or goods,  I will do it.
> >> Give me details,  I want to do what will help!
> >>
> >> Julia
> >> in Oregon
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------
> >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:43:16 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Texas rangers (slightly OT)

I know it's not necessarily fur trade, but many of us do other periods
besides the fur trade era.  Some of you might be interested in this, so
mark your calendars for Wednesday, May 17.  I will be appearing in a
Discovery Channel documentary called "Texas Rangers: Legendary Lawmen."
The series is listed on TV schedules as "On the Inside," with this episode
being about the history of the Rangers.  It is scheduled to air at 7:00 PM
and repeated at 10:00PM (Central time) on the Discovery Channel.  Among
other things you will see me ride, shoot, and get gunned down by John
Wesley Hardin.  I was hired by CBS News (the producer) to coordinate the
reenactors.  We were able to gather about a dozen historically accurate
reenactors (with horses) on short notice for the project.  I have not seen
the finished product, so I can't say how good the program will be.  All I
know is that the reenacting scenes were pretty well done.  I think y'all
will like it.

Cheers,
HBC

**********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442  FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
***  Living History . . . Because It's There  ***



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------------------------------

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