ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/v01.n546

Internet Message Format | 2000-05-11 | 42KB

From: [e-mail] (hist_text-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #546
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


hist_text-digest         Friday, May 12 2000         Volume 01 : Number 546



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: New to list
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Gourds
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Photo of Jim Beckwourth
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.
-áááááá MtMan-List: priming horn
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: western rendezvous
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Picking a time frame
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Gourds Buck
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Tracking
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Picking a time frame
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 00:41:17 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New to list

I am also letrying to put together a period correct set of skins and such.  I
would also like to be involved in such a discussion.  I have tried several
patterns (didn't like them much) tried to "copy" from various historical
sources and am still struggleing to get to the point I want to be at.  On or
off list I would like to have this discussion with those who may be able to
help.

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:14:53 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gourds

As for gourds in the "early period, 1807-1825,"  Harrison Rogers was given a
gourd of "ogadent" by Fatehr Sanchez as Jedediah Smith and his men were
preparing to leave mission San Gabriel.  Granted this is 1827, a bit later
than the years arbitrarily denoted as "early."  Also, Rogers never made it
back to the Rockies.  Nonethelss, gourds can thus be documented in the hands
of trappers earlier than 1836.

Brooks, George R.  The Southwest Expedition of Jedediah Smith...Arthur H.
Calrk Co.  Glendale, CA, 1977, p.240.

Jim Hardee

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:14:54 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Photo of Jim Beckwourth

Perhaps someon on the list can help me.  In "The West, An Illustrated
History," by Geoffery Ward, published by Little, Brown and Co in 1996 there
is a photo of Jim Beckwourth.  This is a different photo from those I've seen
before.  It is credited to Charles Terril in Kent, WA.  I'd like to get a
hold of him and find out more about the photo.  If any of you know him or
more about the phot, please let me know,

Jim Hardee
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:15:06 +1200
From: Duncan Macready <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.

Capt Lathi ,you and all the others on this and other related lists have won
friends and influenced people all over the world ,and hopefully will
continue to do so for a long time yet.
You folks don't know how lucky you are in the USofA, you have a rich
,exciting and colorful pioneering past which is recent enough to be
accessible thru writings, paintings, lists, artifacts,and accurate
historical research.
You have access to modern made historically accurate firearms and other
equipment, a pool of people with vast practical experience that they are
willing to share,
  You still have the lands , the Wildlife, and the Political freedom to
allow you to relive these experiences.
You have enough shooters to allow you to have dedicated special interest
groups of sufficient numbers to be worth while. (I shoot a matchlock as do
about 3 others in this country , If I want advice I have to give it to myself )
  Just as there will always be those who are happy to make noise and smoke
,with out regard to the accuracy of their firearms, and there are those who
are obsessed with pinpoint accuracy and International competition (Me)
There will be the Hunters and the paper punchers, the beer drinkers and the
shrub drinkers.
There will also always be those who are happy in a pair of jeens and a t
shirt, and those who are happy only with the most meticulously researched
and correctly made gear.
You folks have the room for all these people and more,each one of you is no
more or no less than the other and you are all very lucky.
YMOS
Cutfinger
Friendships made,Problems shared
Campfires across the wilderness.
Auckland, New Zealand


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:35:21 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: priming horn

    When I started this ml business with a flinter I started using a primer
horn and 4f because I was told that was the correct thing to do and everyone
else I observed did the same.
    At times I have tried priming from my big horn with no apparent
difference in results.  Using my smooth bore, a Brown Bess, I only prime
from big horn.
    However on my rifles I still use a priming horn and [this is going to
get screams] one of those brass spring loaded devices.  The reason is that I
find it difficult to prime just a tiny bit into the pan with the main horn
and often spill. That is not only sloppy but potentially dangerous. Also, I
must admit, I use the small primer out of habit and I like it.  May not make
all that much difference in shooting but it is what I have gotten used to.
    There are reference books that show priming horns from 'back then', so
they are correct. I plead mea culpa to my little brass thingy.
Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:20:00 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.

Yo, Cutfinger, do you know my friends, Derek and June Pauley, also of New
Zealand? They spent a year here with me in Colorado and we correspond
regularly. They have a pretty nice set of muzzleloaders and are active in
the local muzzleloading fraternity.
Bill C
- -----Original Message-----
From: Duncan Macready <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How to make friends and influence people.


>Capt Lathi ,you and all the others on this and other related lists have won
>friends and influenced people all over the world ,and hopefully will
>continue to do so for a long time yet.
>You folks don't know how lucky you are in the USofA, you have a rich
>,exciting and colorful pioneering past which is recent enough to be
>accessible thru writings, paintings, lists, artifacts,and accurate
>historical research.
>You have access to modern made historically accurate firearms and other
>equipment, a pool of people with vast practical experience that they are
>willing to share,
>  You still have the lands , the Wildlife, and the Political freedom to
>allow you to relive these experiences.
>You have enough shooters to allow you to have dedicated special interest
>groups of sufficient numbers to be worth while. (I shoot a matchlock as do
>about 3 others in this country , If I want advice I have to give it to
myself )
>  Just as there will always be those who are happy to make noise and smoke
>,with out regard to the accuracy of their firearms, and there are those who
>are obsessed with pinpoint accuracy and International competition (Me)
>There will be the Hunters and the paper punchers, the beer drinkers and the
>shrub drinkers.
>There will also always be those who are happy in a pair of jeens and a t
>shirt, and those who are happy only with the most meticulously researched
>and correctly made gear.
>You folks have the room for all these people and more,each one of you is no
>more or no less than the other and you are all very lucky.
>YMOS
>Cutfinger
>Friendships made,Problems shared
>Campfires across the wilderness.
>Auckland, New Zealand
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:22:09 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: western rendezvous

Jerry, get hold of the Smoke and Fire News. It carries over 40 pages
advertising rendezvous all over the U.S., plus articles. Great resource.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: western rendezvous


>Jerry,
>
>There are a number of "National" Rendezvous held each year. One Western is
>put on by NMLRA and one is put on by the regular buckskinner community. The
>latter is usually bigger. The AMM puts on a Western National for it's
>members and this year will be in Idaho but it is open for members and
>invited guests only. There are also several regional "National" rendezvous
>put on by NMLRA and the other groups like the Pacific Primitive, the
Midwest
>Primitive, etc. I'm not sure which one your looking at but there are plenty
>to choose from. Sorry I can't help any more than that. I remain......
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "jerry derringer" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 6:08 PM
>Subject: MtMan-List: western rendezvous
>
>
>> Am I mixed up or what? I thought there was a Western rendezvous in
Montana
>next
>> year close to Glacier park. I just got a notice that NMLRA is going to
>have a
>> Western at Avery in Arizona in 2001.
>> need to get my fact straight, so I can plan vac for a Glacier park
>rondy??????
>> jd
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:29:41 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Picking a time frame

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFBBEC.381772C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wynn, sorry to take so long to answer. Where do you live in WY. We own =
land up there and are contemplating a move there within the next couple =
of years.

A discussion of changes with the passage of time can and has filled =
volumes of books. As the the conversation about gourds, I have no idea =
what or when it was - just don't remember it. But. . .I get interested =
in something for a time and research the hell out of it, then move on to =
something else. If it comes up later I usually have to hit the books =
again. That would be the case here. There are lots of references to =
gourds as canteens, especially in the Southwest, and before the white =
man brought manufactured goods to the mountains the Indians had to do =
with what they had. The best I can tell you is to read, read, read. Most =
of us have some hard held opinions but they are usually just that. Even =
if someone quotes a source you had best jot it down and verify it later =
if you want to be absolutely sure. Even after you have done that there =
is usually more material out there, sometimes to the contrary of what =
you think you have found out as sure. Like Doc Ivory says, it's a never =
ending journey. Just be careful of information you receive from people =
that say "it is absolutely this way. . ." or "you must" or "you can't". =
What I have learned over more than 50 years of doing this is that there =
are very few absolutes.
Bill C
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond <[e-mail]>
    To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
    Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:32 PM
    Subject: MtMan-List: Picking a time frame
   =20
   =20
    Walt wrote:
   =20
    Gourds would not have been present in the initial
    years 1807-1825.  The Pony Trader period may be a different matter =
as
    pointed out to me by Bill Cunningham and his friends.  The =
intercourse grew
    stronger between the north and south rockies over the years.
   =20
   =20
    Would Bill or someone else please tell me more about the changes =
that passage of time caused in the mountains.  For instance, 1825-1828 =
period saw a lot of action in a relatively virgin area that I now live =
in.  What would have been different for those boys in comparision to the =
37 crowd.
    =20
    Hungry for knowledge
    WY


- ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFBBEC.381772C0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Wynn, sorry to take so long to =
answer. Where do=20
you live in WY. We own land up there and are contemplating a move there =
within=20
the next couple of years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A discussion of changes with the passage of time can =
and has=20
filled volumes of books. As the the conversation about gourds, I have no =
idea=20
what or when it was - just don't remember it. But. . .I get interested =
in=20
something for a time and research the hell out of it, then move on to =
something=20
else. If it comes up later I usually have to hit the books again. That =
would be=20
the case here. There are lots of references to gourds as canteens, =
especially in=20
the Southwest, and before the white man brought manufactured goods to =
the=20
mountains the Indians had to do with what they had. The best I can tell =
you is=20
to read, read, read. Most of us have some hard held opinions but they =
are=20
usually just that. Even if someone quotes a source you had best jot it =
down and=20
verify it later if you want to be absolutely sure. Even after you have =
done that=20
there is usually more material out there, sometimes to the contrary of =
what you=20
think you have found out as sure. Like Doc Ivory says, it's a never =
ending=20
journey. Just be careful of information you receive from people that say =

"it is absolutely this way. . ." or "you must" or =
"you=20
can't". What I have learned over more than 50 years of doing this =
is that=20
there are very few absolutes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Bill C</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Wynn & Gretchen Ormond <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR><B>T=
o:=20
    </B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
    <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:32 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>MtMan-List: =
Picking a=20
    time frame<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Walt wrote:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gourds would not have been present =
in the=20
    initial<BR>years 1807-1825.  The Pony Trader period may be a =
different=20
    matter as<BR>pointed out to me by Bill Cunningham and his =
friends.  The=20
    intercourse grew<BR>stronger between the north and south rockies =
over the=20
    years.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Would Bill or someone else please =
tell me more=20
    about the changes that passage of time caused in the=20
    mountains.  For instance, 1825-1828 period saw a lot of =
action in=20
    a relatively virgin area that I now live in.  What would =
have been=20
    different for those boys in comparision to the 37 =
crowd.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hungry for knowledge</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>WY</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFBBEC.381772C0--


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:23:11 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gourds Buck

Good morning Buck,

Thanks for the warning. Stop.  But about what? Stop.  I learned to write in
telegraphic style when I went to work on the NP railroad for a while 40
years ago. Stop.  I am talking about 2 camps. Stop.  One camp is the Clark
camp on the Clarks Fork of the Yellowstone in 1806. Stop.  The other camp
with Jim Bridger is in the same location.  Stop.

What does this have to do with east of Mississippi? Stop.  Or anyplace else
except the location being talked about by me. Stop.  Let me write it before
you jump.  Stop.   I am going to try to answer Mr. Stickler question this
morning as I am sitting watching the snow falling around me here in Park
City, Montana.

Thanks again for the warning.  Stop.  Walt







- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gourds


> [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > Walt,
> >
> > You stated that...........
> > > is based on the 1836/1836 camp of Jim Bridger and is late enough in
the
> > period to be represented.  Gourds would not have been present in the
initial
> > years 1807-1825.
> >         [Sickler, Louis L]
> >         Can you tell us why?? Just curious.
> >
> >         Lou Sickler
> >         Colorado Territory
>
> before making a statement about gourds in this country, better take a look
at
> Jefferson's Garden Book, his garden was way before the dates quoted, and
he
> did a lot of seed trading east of the Mississippi.
>
> Buck
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:31:24 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tracking

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFBBEC.75821AC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wynn, me again. The best way I know of learning tracking is to get a =
well experienced mentor. In the absence of one, books can help. But in =
either case it comes down to observation and practice, practice, =
practice.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond <[e-mail]>
    To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
    Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:42 PM
    Subject: MtMan-List: Tracking
   =20
   =20
    I read in the AMM membership requirements:
   =20
    Must be able to demonstrate ability to track man or animal under =
natural wilderness conditions.=20
   =20
    What is the test to pass such a requirement?  I started tracking =
deer and dogs in the mountains of my back yard, and about twelve years =
ago read Tom Browns books and started really looking at tracking =
differently.  But to tell the truth sometimes while riding along these =
hills my four year old will notice a track or identify an irregularity =
in a set of them before I do.  Is there somewhere/someone to go that =
could teach me more?=20
    =20
    Still Hungry
    WY


- ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFBBEC.75821AC0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Wynn, me again. The best way I know =
of learning=20
tracking is to get a well experienced mentor. In the absence of one, =
books can=20
help. But in either case it comes down to observation and practice, =
practice,=20
practice.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Wynn & Gretchen Ormond <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR><B>T=
o:=20
    </B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
    <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:42 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>MtMan-List:=20
    Tracking<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I read in the AMM membership=20
    requirements:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Must be able to demonstrate ability =
to track=20
    man or animal under natural wilderness conditions. </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What is the test to pass such a=20
    requirement?  I started tracking deer and dogs in the mountains =
of my=20
    back yard, and about twelve years ago read Tom Browns books and =
started=20
    really looking at tracking differently.  But to tell the truth=20
    sometimes while riding along these hills my four year old will =
notice=20
    a track or identify an irregularity in a set of them =
before I=20
    do.  Is there somewhere/someone to go that could teach me=20
    more? </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Still Hungry</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>WY</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BFBBEC.75821AC0--


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:35:02 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis

Larry - That's a very good message~!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Larry Huber <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis


>Gentlemen and Ladies,
>     I think we have railed on long enough over this issue.  We've chased
>off some and pissed off most.  This is a list open to all and ALL opinions
>will be expressed.  Some just have a very forceful way of expressing their
>OPINIONS.
>      This really isn't supposed to be a "chat" list.  There are any number
>of fur trade/reenactor chat lists out there for those who wish to visit
>"nice".  Be advised that many of those lists have anything but "nice"
>conversations.  This is supposed to be an informational list to exchange
>ideas (and opinions) and to seek information pertaining to the fur trade
>era.  All are welcome.  Any AMM business or family feuding should be
>restricted to the AMM list or to personal communication.  I don't think we
>should air our laundry in public.
>    So, MY last response to anything with the word "Nazi" in the log line
>follows.
>    I keep my camp and am more than willing to let others keep their camp
>the way they see fit.  When I attend a rendezvous, I attend to the rules
and
>restrictions of the organizers.  I give aid or advice when asked and
>appreciate response when I ask questions of others.  I have wrongly assumed
>that some folks do what they do out of ignorance of the period and wish to
>be enlightened.  This is often NOT the case.  Many participants like the
way
>their camp is irregardless of authenticity or historical precedent and are
>proud of it.  Fine.  As long as the camp rules are maintained, I have no
>problem with those people as long as I can keep my camp my way.  They have
>no reason to have to defend their way of doing things to me as I do not
>intend to defend myself to them.
>     I look at non-AMM functions this way... they are not supposed to be a
>Recreation of History, they are supposed to be a Celebration of History.
>That helps me keep things in perspective and still enjoy myself.  If the
>standards of the event falls so far as to become a mere "shoot" or an
excuse
>to sell trinkets, I stop attending.  I enjoyed the bliss of big camps full
>of women, kids and dogs for years until it all began to look like
>"theme-park history" to me.  That's when I contacted the AMM.  By then I
was
>a familiar face at rendezvous and some of those "elitists" recalled that I
>asked sincere questions.
>    The AMM is required by charter to share their knowledge with others.
>This list is a response to that self-imposed demand. But although we come
>from all backgrounds,we are largely a rough, mostly unshod group.  We
>unashamedly admit to taking this thing we do seriously.  So when you come
to
>us with inquireries, prepare yourself for honest (sometimes brutally
>unvarnished honest) answers.  You can pick a man to relate to on a one to
>one basis but on this list you get everyone's opinion in the way they
>express themselves.  There will most likely be someone you can connect with
>and others you can't. You can choose, however, whose responses to take to
>heart.  This list is OPEN to everyone but not FOR everyone.
>    That's my piece on the matter.
>
>    Larry Huber
>    #1517
>    ----- Original Message -----
>From: Addison Miller <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:27 PM
>Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis
>
>
>> Aw come on guys (and gals)... this is a hobby we have here.... one that
my
>> wife and I enjoy immensely.  We do the best we can, and I am always
>learning
>> new stuff about what to do and not to do, etc... We all do the best we
can
>> with what we got. I admit, I am not 100% accurate, because there are
>comfort
>> things the little woman likes, and since I gota sleep with her, I say
"Yes
>> dear", and see that she has it. Mostly, I do try to be as accurate as
>> possible, and when some one KINDLY (key word here) points out to me that
I
>> am in error, I listen and change it.  However, if someone comes into MY
>> (another key word) camp and starts givin me a ration, then its time to
>start
>> looking for a place to hide bodies. I put up with that from no one!!
>>
>> I am new at this... only been doing it about 10 years, and I love what I
>do.
>> Since we just moved to W Va, I intend to get into Historical Trekking,
and
>I
>> am studying hard to make it right with my gear, etc... however, I am sure
>I
>> will make a few mistakes. That is called being human.  Constructive
>> criticism is accepted gladly... ranting and raving at me about something
>is
>> likely to get you hurt... and more than just your feelings. R E S P E C T
>is
>> another key word. Respect others, and be nice when you point out the
error
>> of their ways.  You will find they will listen much better.
>>
>> I agree whole heartedly, that some traders at events shouldnot be allowed
>in
>> the front gates. All they sell is Pakistani knives, cheap made in China
>> junk, and trinkets. Report it to the Ronnyvous authorities.... don't go
>off
>> on the guy yourself.
>>
>> Many of us want to be as authentic as possible... kudos to you in doing
>> that.  Many of us just aren't as talented at making things as others
(this
>> is my category), so we do the best we can. Hell, it was many years before
>I
>> finally learned to make fire with flint and steel. When a friend took me
>> aside and showed me how to do it (instead of laughing at my attempts and
>> walking away as some others did) I found it was easy as pie.  Now, that
is
>> how I start all my fires at camp.
>>
>> Finally to my point here... BE NICE!!!  You don't have to call people
>names
>> (personally I HATE the word NAZI) to get their attention.  I have learned
>> much from this list, and hope to continue to do so. Several months ago,
>when
>> I was a newbie to the list, I asked a question, and one of the members
(no
>> longer here) stated that it was a "stupid question, not worth an answer".
>> Well, my daddy always said that the only stupid question as was the one
>you
>> didn't ask. People like that can give lists a bad name.... and that is
>not,
>> for the most part, I have found this list to be.
>>
>> Ad Miller
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:30:05 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Picking a time frame

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BFBBEC.466EB680
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good morning Wynn,
I am going to respond this morning to the both questions this morning.  =
My friends in Wyoming and Colorado may be interested in this thread.  =
You are certainly right about central Wyoming being the high ball for =
the pony traders from 1825-1828.  Those first 3 years of the pony trader =
rendenzvous made their mark.  I like being responsible for what I have =
to say.
Walt
Park City, Montana
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:35 AM
  Subject: MtMan-List: Picking a time frame


  Walt wrote:

  Gourds would not have been present in the initial
  years 1807-1825.  The Pony Trader period may be a different matter as
  pointed out to me by Bill Cunningham and his friends.  The intercourse =
grew
  stronger between the north and south rockies over the years.


  Would Bill or someone else please tell me more about the changes that =
passage of time caused in the mountains.  For instance, 1825-1828 period =
saw a lot of action in a relatively virgin area that I now live in.  =
What would have been different for those boys in comparision to the 37 =
crowd.
  =20
  Hungry for knowledge
  WY


- ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BFBBEC.466EB680
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3013.2600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good morning Wynn,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am going to respond this morning to =
the both=20
questions this morning.  My friends in Wyoming and Colorado may be=20
interested in this thread.  You are certainly right about central =
Wyoming=20
being the high ball for the pony traders from 1825-1828.  Those =
first 3=20
years of the pony trader rendenzvous made their mark.  I like being =

responsible for what I have to say.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Walt</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Park City, Montana</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>Wynn &=20
  Gretchen Ormond</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 11, 2000 =
6:35=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Picking a =
time=20
  frame</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Walt wrote:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gourds would not have been present in =
the=20
  initial<BR>years 1807-1825.  The Pony Trader period may be a =
different=20
  matter as<BR>pointed out to me by Bill Cunningham and his =
friends.  The=20
  intercourse grew<BR>stronger between the north and south rockies over =
the=20
  years.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Would Bill or someone else please =
tell me more=20
  about the changes that passage of time caused in the =
mountains.  For=20
  instance, 1825-1828 period saw a lot of action in a relatively virgin =
area=20
  that I now live in.  What would have been different for =
those boys=20
  in comparision to the 37 crowd.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hungry for knowledge</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>WY</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BFBBEC.466EB680--


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:24:20 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not

Groan!  I do so hate change(don't we all?) but mebbe I'll give it a try.
See you all at the Nationals.
Larry Huber.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ratcliff <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not


Larry,
You should try 3f in the trade gun.  I use about 70 grains of 3f under a
ball or shot and prime from the same horn.  Works good.  Of course, a larger
charge can be used, but this works fine in my .62 for target work.
Lanney Ratcliff

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Huber <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not


> Hey, Randy,
>     I never tried this but it makes sense.  I know that all military
muskets
> were primed from the same powder as the main charge.  I suspect that the
> touch holes were a bit larger, however.  I might give the single powder a
> test on my .54 but I think I'll carry a 4F primer with my trade gun.  I
burn
> 2F in that 20 gauge gun.
>
>     Larry Huber
>     #1517
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randal J Bublitz <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 5:23 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not
>
>
> > Hi Verlin,   I tend to carry 3f powder in a single horn, loading and
> > priming with the same stuff.  It is my understanding that existing
> > historical priming horns are rare.  The reason I don't use a priming
horn
> > though, is for ease of use.  I have used 4f for priming, and not...I
> > can't tell any real difference in my shooting, it's always mediocre <g>.
> >  My best advice for shooting a flinter is this;  find someone who shoots
> > one well, and go shooting with them....ask for-and follow there advice.
> > I did this and my flinter abilities increased noticeably.    hardtack
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:31:28 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not

Yeah.  My gun has a liner and that hole looks right small.  Never had it
misfire in the rain though.  I've seen folks shoot speed comptition by
loading and priming by giving the breech a good whack.  Impressive.  A good
trick, but I'm unlikely to need to do that.  Still, I like the whole idea of
carrying ONE type of powder and ONE type of caliber.  Right now my rifle,
smooth bore and pistol all have different calibers! (Look.  I said I was
serious about this stuff...not bright.)
Larry Huber
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not


> Larry,
> I use 2f in my smooth bore for priming and in the main charge. Alot
> depends on the size of the touch hole. You can on my gun, turn it on
> it's side and knock it with your hand opposite on the touch hole and
powder
> will fall out of the pan. Try the 2f and see if your gun likes it. Madison
> Grant's book on hunting pouches does show a few orignals that had
> a small powder horn (for priming) but most seem to have only one horn
> for both uses. does your gun have a liner around the touch hole?
>
> mike.
>
> larry pendleton wrote:
>
> > Lanney,
> >   I'll try that in the future.  I got a deal on a bunch of 2f.  I try to
use
> > what I have.  I prime with what ever I have in the main horn.  Works for
me.
> > Of course I can't hit anything anyway.
> > Pendleton
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ratcliff <[e-mail]>
> > To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> > Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not
> >
> > Larry,
> > You should try 3f in the trade gun.  I use about 70 grains of 3f under a
> > ball or shot and prime from the same horn.  Works good.  Of course, a
larger
> > charge can be used, but this works fine in my .62 for target work.
> > Lanney Ratcliff
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Larry Huber <[e-mail]>
> > To: <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not
> >
> > > Hey, Randy,
> > >     I never tried this but it makes sense.  I know that all military
> > muskets
> > > were primed from the same powder as the main charge.  I suspect that
the
> > > touch holes were a bit larger, however.  I might give the single
powder a
> > > test on my .54 but I think I'll carry a 4F primer with my trade gun.
I
> > burn
> > > 2F in that 20 gauge gun.
> > >
> > >     Larry Huber
> > >     #1517
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Randal J Bublitz <[e-mail]>
> > > To: <[e-mail]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 5:23 PM
> > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Prining horn or not
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Verlin,   I tend to carry 3f powder in a single horn, loading and
> > > > priming with the same stuff.  It is my understanding that existing
> > > > historical priming horns are rare.  The reason I don't use a priming
> > horn
> > > > though, is for ease of use.  I have used 4f for priming, and not...I
> > > > can't tell any real difference in my shooting, it's always mediocre
<g>.
> > > >  My best advice for shooting a flinter is this;  find someone who
shoots
> > > > one well, and go shooting with them....ask for-and follow there
advice.
> > > > I did this and my flinter abilities increased noticeably.
hardtack
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------
> > > > hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> > > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

------------------------------

End of hist_text-digest V1 #546
*******************************

-
 To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.