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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #539 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, May 10 2000 Volume 01 : Number 539 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage -áááááá MtMan-List: Please remove me from the mailing list -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage -áááááá MtMan-List: artificial sinew -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) -áááááá MtMan-List: Re: cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-List cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: artificial sinew -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:28:04 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: cordage Hello Hawknest, I don't think the square cordage you are talking about would make a very good bowstring. To much stretch. The old back twist method is much better. I know it works because I have been using it without out a problem. The bowstring is critical. I am going to a shoot this weekend to the old range I have been a member of off and on since 1953. I have been invited to show some of these young bucks how to go about converting cordage into a suitable bowstring, not to shoot. VBG. Make up a short section and see how much stretch there is in it. That will give you a good anwser. Beautiful weather here in the birthplace of the mountain men. See you in Montana Walt in his badgerhole. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:33:13 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Hello John, So what does D. camp look like? Walt - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hunt" <jhunt1@one.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:57 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage > Dennis, that paddle is used to propel your canoe, not stir up s--t. > > To those who don`t know Dennis, his camp is just as he talks, extremely > correct. He has what it takes to make a comfortable camp for his wife and > himself. You must remember everyone's level of comfort is different. > > Dennis also has the skills, ability, and knowledge to make do with whats at > hand. > > > > > > PS.. It does my heart good to know I can still ruffle feathers good, when > I > > am a mind to..<BG> And the invitation still goes, I would like to get on > the > > ground with any one of ya's. ('Cept mebby Pendleton) > > D > > > > > > > > > > > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > > Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements > > http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 > > "Knowing how is just the beginning" > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:35:17 -0400 From: "D Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Walt Wrote: > So what does D. camp look like? Walt, Like a camp, a oilcloth tarp over the top if it is a pouring or snowing like a banshee, or no cloth if natural shelter is available. And nada when it's nice. A couple a blankets or the robe. A tinned brass kettle and a canteen usually. My gun, bag and haversack laying around somewhere in reach.A jug at some AMM doins. Nothin fancy. It is like that if I am by myself, with Gwen, in a big public doins or in the middle of no damned where. What did you have in mind? Dennis "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning" - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:36:41 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis Ole, Wise words from a wise man. My sympathies exactly. I remain.... As always YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:04 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis > Michael, > Thanks! > there are many things that interest me and I follow my own mind. I hope that > I know the diference between an AMM camp and a park and drop. I will take > diferent things to these camps and it is no reflection on the AMM. I have > seen AMM brothers get so totaly wasted at camp that they pass out in the > dirt and that is no reflection on the orginization just a brother with a > problem. However when I represent the AMM and the things we value I strive > to hold my self to the highest standards but I do it to teach and to be an > example to those who wish to learn and always try to remember that I am no > better then they are just down the trail a litle further. > YMOS > Ole > ---------- > >From: hawknest4@juno.com > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis > >Date: Wed, May 10, 2000, 2:24 AM > > > > >ole--- > >well put---remember this is a brotherhood here to help each other---NUFF > >SAID---CUT the BS---I have been slapped by the period pirots before and > >then went back with my documentation and proved them wrong---done my > >homework and was 5% smarter---lets get off of this subject all of us know > >its a tender one---we aint judgeing brothers---if a brother done wrong he > >is told politely and on a one to one basis---each has helped in that > >scenario before---I have even went and loaned stuff to a guy to help him > >be period correct if i could help him--- > > > >lets shake hands and close this one out guys--- > > > >YMHOSANT > > =+= > >HAWK > >Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) > >854 Glenfield Dr. > >Palm Harbor florida 34684 > >E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: > >http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce > > > >________________________________________________________________ > >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:07:14 -0700 From: "Paul W. Jones" <pwjones@excelonline.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Dennis, you forgot to mention the tiny teddy bear, the incense, prayer bells and so forth. - ----- Original Message ----- From: D Miles <deforge1@bright.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>; <Wfoster@cw2.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 11:35 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage > Walt Wrote: > > So what does D. camp look like? > > > Walt, > Like a camp, a oilcloth tarp over the top if it is a pouring or snowing > like a banshee, or no cloth if natural shelter is available. And nada when > it's nice. A couple a blankets or the robe. A tinned brass kettle and a > canteen usually. My gun, bag and haversack laying around somewhere in > reach.A jug at some AMM doins. Nothin fancy. It is like that if I am by > myself, with Gwen, in a big public doins or in the middle of no damned > where. What did you have in mind? > Dennis > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements > http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 > "Knowing how is just the beginning" > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 15:18:59 EDT From: VRsmussen@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Please remove me from the mailing list Please Thanks Vaughn - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:43:21 -0700 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage I figured you were hiding out there someplace awaiting to pounce......... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul W. Jones <pwjones@excelonline.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 2:07 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage > Dennis, you forgot to mention the tiny teddy bear, the incense, prayer bells > and so forth. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: D Miles <deforge1@bright.net> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>; <Wfoster@cw2.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 11:35 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage > > > > Walt Wrote: > > > So what does D. camp look like? > > > > > > Walt, > > Like a camp, a oilcloth tarp over the top if it is a pouring or snowing > > like a banshee, or no cloth if natural shelter is available. And nada > when > > it's nice. A couple a blankets or the robe. A tinned brass kettle and a > > canteen usually. My gun, bag and haversack laying around somewhere in > > reach.A jug at some AMM doins. Nothin fancy. It is like that if I am by > > myself, with Gwen, in a big public doins or in the middle of no damned > > where. What did you have in mind? > > Dennis > > > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > > Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements > > http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 > > "Knowing how is just the beginning" > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:59:39 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@centurytel.net> Subject: MtMan-List: artificial sinew Yes, I believe we all "strive to improve" and most of us would rather use real sinew. However, not everyone bags a deer, or elk or any big game each year. I admire those who are able to ignore the square life and [legally?] hunt and bag six or ten deer a year. And who have time to harvest the sinew and hand tan the hides and hand make their gear. For most it is a dream. I feel very fortunate if I kill a deer every other year. Our muzzle loading seasons here are often in very warm weather. Got to get the carcass to a chilling room and processor quickly or it is just buzzard bait. Hard to harvest the sinew. And one little whitetail does not produce much sinew by his lonesome. So, I "strive" to do my best with artificial sinew. Used right, it looks good and lasts. My 'skins and capotes and blankets and plunder is important to me but in the big picture of daily living they are really luxuries. I take very good care of all of it as I cannot go out and kill a couple critters each time I need a new shirt or mocs or whatever. I would hope that most reenactors respect the fact that not everyone can actually "live" the life of an 1800's trapper or whatever. The rest of us "strive" to do our best to help preserve that part of history. And most of us respect those who are "striving to improve". Respect and understanding are American traits. (p.s. forgive me if above sounds angry. one of my failings is that I do not deal well with negativism or elitists) Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:21:24 -0400 From: "D Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Pablo.. Shhhhhhhhhhh..........<G> D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning" - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:45:03 -0600 From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) - --------------58F8DC5AA39B5A61063E8FAD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, You are right. Recurves were found in the fur trade. George CAtlin's "Letters and Notes on the Manners, Customs and Conditions of North American Indians" volume 1(what a mouth full) shows recurves in all of the pictures when he painted bows. Also, Stanley Honour (who makes ram horns bows) might be a good source for more information on this. Dang, if those bows aren't nice mike.. Bill Cunningham wrote: > Absolutely! I used to practice going out with just a flinter or a bow > and arrows, my knife, fire makings, a wool blanket and the clothes on > my back. In a few days you learn that it is very possible to get along > with the bare necessities. You also learn to appreciate some that > aren't - such as a good waterproof tarp, a pot and a frying pan. It > was on a couple of these trips that I even came up with the idea of a > small tent I could also use as a pack. Made it and carried it for > years. Now age is creeping up on me and I have had to learn to be a > bit more cautious. I carry a first aid kit and often ride a horse.But > speaking of recurves, weren't they around long before the fur period? > Seems to me I saw one in the museum at Betatakin. I know they existed > in Eurasia, but it seems to me that some of the south western Indians > had them also. The one I saw wasn't extreme like the horse bows of the > Steppes, but was definitely a self-bow recurve. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net> > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Date: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 3:43 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) > Bill, > I, like Roger, see how we could (and can) justify > carrying artifical sinew. I just feel > that under regular "survival" situations all I would have to > use for building a shelter, making > a tripod or any putting together any number of things are > sinew, rawhide, cordage (of various kinds) or leather. So by > trying these and seeing what works and what doesn't, > wouldn't that be the best for us when called upon to have to > use it? I hear alot about "survival" gear. And to me, alot > of these items just don't fit in the catagory. Most are well > made, durable items that can be the best you can buy > (wheather it is a kind of Moc, or what is best for sewing > stuff up with), but to me (and this is only my opinion) why > not tie both worlds together and have authenic equipement > that is durable, comfortable and replaceable? > Like alot of you guys, I am a A.M.M. member. and alot of > people have choosen sides in > the authenic/ survival debate. I just say why not be both? > Make you and your equipment the > best they can be. And know how to do the things necessary to > survive, maybe even be > comfortable. I have friends who have Dyer mocs and they love > them. But if I ever had to replace them while in the > mountains (it can happen: a horse or mule scatters > everything for a mile or too, you loose one of them fording > a river or maybe a hungry coyote comes in camp and steals > them) I would have to use leather and sinew (or wangs) to > make a new pair. > Every man has their own opinion on this subject- it is kind > of like the recurve versus stick bow, we won't mention the > new fangled wheel bows. And different guys like different > things > at different times. But ,doesn't this make a good subject to > hammer out and make people > think???? > > > mike. > people. > Bill Cunningham wrote: > > > I was watching that antiques roadshow program one time and > > a guy brought in an Indian arrow quiver. It really looked > > nice and he was sure he had a pot of money. But the > > antique guy showed him that it was factory tanned leather, > > sewed with artificial sinew, which he explained was a > > hi-tech modern product. You could see the guy just wither. > > But it brought to mind a couple of questions. In true > > survival situations, would you be able to obtain enough > > sinew to take care of whatever it might be that you'd need > > it for? Since sinew is typically 12" long or less, and > > splicing it is tricky at best, would you carry 15 feet or > > so in your possibles pouch, or rather, perhaps, a small > > coil of artificial sinew which is infinitely long? > > Historical authenticity is great and a fine goal, but what > > if your life (or in some cases, your budget) depended on > > it?Bill C > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: D Miles <deforge1@bright.net> > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > > Date: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 7:32 AM > > Subject: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) > > > > Boy, I am on a roll now... I also see way to > > many sutlers out there that sell FANTASTIC > > authentic, documented items in various forms.All > > high quality.... But for some reason, allot of > > them also list "artificial sinew" on their trade > > lists.....GO figger...D "Abair ach beagan is > > abair gu math e" > > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > > Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements > > http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 > > "Knowing how is just the beginning" > > - --------------58F8DC5AA39B5A61063E8FAD Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Bill, You are right. Recurves were found in the fur trade. George CAtlin's "Letters and Notes on the Manners, Customs and Conditions of North American Indians" volume 1(what a mouth full) shows recurves in all of the pictures when he painted bows. Also, Stanley Honour (who makes ram horns bows) might be a good source for more information on this. Dang, if those bows aren't nice mike.. Bill Cunningham wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE> Absolutely! I used to practice going out with just a flinter or a bow and arrows, my knife, fire makings, a wool blanket and the clothes on my back. In a few days you learn that it is very possible to get along with the bare necessities. You also learn to appreciate some that aren't - such as a good waterproof tarp, a pot and a frying pan. It was on a couple of these trips that I even came up with the idea of a small tent I could also use as a pack. Made it and carried it for years. Now age is creeping up on me and I have had to learn to be a bit more cautious. I carry a first aid kit and often ride a horse.But speaking of recurves, weren't they around long before the fur period? Seems to me I saw one in the museum at Betatakin. I know they existed in Eurasia, but it seems to me that some of the south western Indians had them also. The one I saw wasn't extreme like the horse bows of the Steppes, but was definitely a self-bow recurve. <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">-----Original Message----- From: Mike Moore <<a href="mailto:amm1616@earthlink.net">amm1616@earthlink.net</a>> To: <a href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</a> <<a href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</a>> Date: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 3:43 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) Bill, I, like Roger, see how we could (and can) justify carrying artifical sinew. I just feel that under regular "survival" situations all I would have to use for building a shelter, making a tripod or any putting together any number of things are sinew, rawhide, cordage (of various kinds) or leather. So by trying these and seeing what works and what doesn't, wouldn't that be the best for us when called upon to have to use it? I hear alot about "survival" gear. And to me, alot of these items just don't fit in the catagory. Most are well made, durable items that can be the best you can buy (wheather it is a kind of Moc, or what is best for sewing stuff up with), but to me (and this is only my opinion) why not tie both worlds together and have authenic equipement that is durable, comfortable and replaceable? Like alot of you guys, I am a A.M.M. member. and alot of people have choosen sides in the authenic/ survival debate. I just say why not be both? Make you and your equipment the best they can be. And know how to do the things necessary to survive, maybe even be comfortable. I have friends who have Dyer mocs and they love them. But if I ever had to replace them while in the mountains (it can happen: a horse or mule scatters everything for a mile or too, you loose one of them fording a river or maybe a hungry coyote comes in camp and steals them) I would have to use leather and sinew (or wangs) to make a new pair. Every man has their own opinion on this subject- it is kind of like the recurve versus stick bow, we won't mention the new fangled wheel bows. And different guys like different things at different times. But ,doesn't this make a good subject to hammer out and make people think???? mike. people. Bill Cunningham wrote: <blockquote TYPE = CITE><style></style> I was watching that antiques roadshow program one time and a guy brought in an Indian arrow quiver. It really looked nice and he was sure he had a pot of money. But the antique guy showed him that it was factory tanned leather, sewed with artificial sinew, which he explained was a hi-tech modern product. You could see the guy just wither. But it brought to mind a couple of questions. In true survival situations, would you be able to obtain enough sinew to take care of whatever it might be that you'd need it for? Since sinew is typically 12" long or less, and splicing it is tricky at best, would you carry 15 feet or so in your possibles pouch, or rather, perhaps, a small coil of artificial sinew which is infinitely long? Historical authenticity is great and a fine goal, but what if your life (or in some cases, your budget) depended on it?Bill C <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">-----Original Message----- From: D Miles <<a href="mailto:deforge1@bright.net">deforge1@bright.net</a>> To: <a href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</a> <<a href="mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</a>> Date: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 7:32 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) Boy, I am on a roll now... I also see way to many sutlers out there that sell FANTASTIC authentic, documented items in various forms.All high quality.... But for some reason, allot of them also list "artificial sinew" on their trade lists.....GO figger...D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements <a href="http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1</a> "Knowing how is just the beginning"</blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </body> </html> - --------------58F8DC5AA39B5A61063E8FAD-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:19:48 -0500 From: Glenn Darilek <llsi@texas.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: cordage Making rope is a little more involved than twisting fibers and cords together. You have to use twists in opposite directions for each level. I was at the Mystic Sea Village in Connecticut last week and saw a part of a rope walk that originally came from the Plymouth Cordage Company. I made some notes, but I don't have them now, so some of my terminology may be incorrect. The fibers are twisted in one direction to make cords? The rope is then made by twisting the cords in the opposite direction. The opposite twist makes them hold together without fraying as bad. The ropes can be twisted together in the opposite direction again to make a cable. During the rendezvous era, they hadn't invented the rope twisting machines so they had rope walks that were buildings that were 1000+ feet long (two story too)! The 1000 foot buildings were was needed because they made ropes in 100 fathoms long (600 feet). When 1000 feet of fibers were laid into a cord, the twists would cause the overall length to shrink to about 600 feet. First they were using hemp (cannabis) ropes for sailing. For the Plymouth Cordage Company, the hemp was imported from Russia and some from the Midwest area near Saint Louis. The hemp was strong, but it needed to be pine tarred to prevent it from rotting. The tar made the rope stiff and was pretty bad and I imagine messy going through sheaves and pulleys. Hence the name 'tar' was used for a sailor. During the rendezvous era (I can't remember the year), they started using manilla. It is not from a manilla plant, but from a type of banana plant. It was from Manilla, Philippines, hence it's name. Manilla has its own natural oils, so tar wasn't necessary. This made flexible ropes. The shipping industry quickly switched over to manilla for their running lines (lines that moved), but stuck with the hemp for their fixed lines because it was stronger. That's about all I know about ropes except for knot tying. YMOS Glenn Darilek Iron Burner - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:57:14 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: cordage - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Darilek" <llsi@texas.net> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 2:19 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Re: cordage > Making rope is a little more involved than twisting fibers and cords > together. You have to use twists in opposite directions for each > level. Glenn, Great information about how rope was made and what it was made out of at different times. We had a discussion about that some time back and the answer was not easy to find. I must disagree with your findings above. Making rope is certainly more involved simply due to the lengths made but the process is esentially the same as it is for hand making cordage. The process for hand making cordage requires that you twist individual groups of fiber bundles (or yarns) in the same direction until you have a managable section of each of the strands you are working with well wound up on itself. Then you let them twist around each other which forms them into an integral cord of two or more strands. To make it workable the yarns usually are not long and more material must be "grafted" in as you proceed. This is what is done in a rope walk or with a rope machine. The several strands or yarns (usually three) are twisted either by hand over the length of the rope walk or by the machine which twist's all the strands at once off their individual serving spools. When they reach the right degree of tension, the main cord is allowed to turn (it will want to turn in the opposite direction if I have it pictured correctly) and as it spins, a divider that keeps each strand separate will be moved down the rope walk or away from the finished cord, thus the rope is formed. The same process is used in hand making cordage but of course it is a much slower process and all done by hand a few inches at a time. A skilled worker can make cordage quit quickly though. Are you sure about rope twisting machines not being available during the Rendezvous time period? I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:21:07 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage That ain't no way to be Dennis ! Pendleton - -----Original Message----- From: D Miles <deforge1@bright.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4:40 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Hawk, Is that "Lucette" thing look like a thick slingshot, sorta? I think I have seen those in a catalog somewhere, in with the spinning supplies.. I will have to look before I go out to the shop.. Cordage, eh? That IS a pure wonderment....And square to booot.. Would be fun to bring that square stuff to a doins and show the Brothers somthing queersome..<G> D PS.. It does my heart good to know I can still ruffle feathers good, when I am a mind to..<BG> And the invitation still goes, I would like to get on the ground with any one of ya's. ('Cept mebby Pendleton) D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning" - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:14:40 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-List cordage > Not an expert on cordage by any means but I assure you that you can make > you're rope twister idea work with any number of strands up to the point it > is just not practical anymore. Those "rope twisters" are the biggest pain in the dupa ever foisted on kids by the fathers of America. They are designed to show Cub Scouts how inept their fathers really are. Several have given advice on how to make cordage. Here's how to use it, or any thread, twine, or whatever else you have handy, to make rope. You only need 2 things and they are both the same.............two 6" long sticks. A partner helps, but you can do it by yourself. Take a length of twine that is three times the final length desired. Tie one end to your stick. Loop it over your partner's stick, back over your stick, and tie the other end to your partner's stick. Pull taut to even the strands out. You now have three equal length strands. Keep the strands taut at all times. Both of your start turning your sticks in a clockwise direction until the cord just starts to bunch up it you release the tension slightly. Now, both of you lay your weight into it just to the point of breaking. This will "set" it. Repeat step one again. Loop it over your buddy's stick, and back over your's. You will have 3 strands again. This time, turn your sticks counter-clockwise until it starts to bunch again. Pull hard to set it again. You now have a 9 strand, double-twist rope. It will be as good or better than any commercial rope you can buy, and it will have been made in a primitive manner. By varying the thickness of the beginning material, you can make any size rope you want, or you can use step one to make a series of beginning strands for a larger thickness rope. I use single strand hemp thread and make small, twisted cords to hang my powder horn or neck knife from. Each end of the rope made this way has a natural loop in it., and you just whip it slightly back from the loop. If you don't have a partner with you, you can use a broken stob on a tree, or any other convenient stick that is stationary. If you use a fencepost, then you have a damn big loop in one end. If you are a group, and someone knows how to splice, then you can make each man a "Ranger Rope" This is a 6 foot piece of rope with a loop in one end and a toggle backspliced in the other end. You put the toggle of your partners rope through the loop of your rope. In an 8 man team, you can conveniently have 48 feet of useable rope distributed between the team. Try it you will like it...............unless you have a two dimensional mind and can't visualize how the strands are looped. If this is the case, then you should use the "rope twister" mentioned at the beginning because you most certainly fall in the Cub Scout Dad category. Now that I have taught you how to make rope, you guys who made the nasty comments about the thread that Capt Lahti, me, and the good Widow were involved in last week can take yours and try to piss up it. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:24:00 -0400 From: "D Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Sorry Larry, But you know how us nazis are....<G> D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:44:19 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Yep ! Nazis, Elitist, Wanabes, and someone making a fashion statement, hell I always wanted to somebody. Guess I should have been more specific. <GG> Pendleton - -----Original Message----- From: D Miles <deforge1@bright.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 3:23 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Sorry Larry, But you know how us nazis are....<G> D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:45:53 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: artificial sinew Frank, Have you tried using Linen cord to sew your leather goods ? Try it you might like it. Pendleton - -----Original Message----- From: Frank Fusco <frankf@centurytel.net> To: MM <hist_text@xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 1:00 PM Subject: MtMan-List: artificial sinew Yes, I believe we all "strive to improve" and most of us would rather use real sinew. However, not everyone bags a deer, or elk or any big game each year. I admire those who are able to ignore the square life and [legally?] hunt and bag six or ten deer a year. And who have time to harvest the sinew and hand tan the hides and hand make their gear. For most it is a dream. I feel very fortunate if I kill a deer every other year. Our muzzle loading seasons here are often in very warm weather. Got to get the carcass to a chilling room and processor quickly or it is just buzzard bait. Hard to harvest the sinew. And one little whitetail does not produce much sinew by his lonesome. So, I "strive" to do my best with artificial sinew. Used right, it looks good and lasts. My 'skins and capotes and blankets and plunder is important to me but in the big picture of daily living they are really luxuries. I take very good care of all of it as I cannot go out and kill a couple critters each time I need a new shirt or mocs or whatever. I would hope that most reenactors respect the fact that not everyone can actually "live" the life of an 1800's trapper or whatever. The rest of us "strive" to do our best to help preserve that part of history. And most of us respect those who are "striving to improve". Respect and understanding are American traits. (p.s. forgive me if above sounds angry. one of my failings is that I do not deal well with negativism or elitists) Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:47:19 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage should have said- wanted to be somebody. Oh well ! Pendleton - -----Original Message----- From: larry pendleton <yrrw@airmail.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 3:34 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Yep ! Nazis, Elitist, Wanabes, and someone making a fashion statement, hell I always wanted to somebody. Guess I should have been more specific. <GG> Pendleton - -----Original Message----- From: D Miles <deforge1@bright.net> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 3:23 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Sorry Larry, But you know how us nazis are....<G> D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #539 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.