ftp.xmission.com

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ ftp.xmission.com / 2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar / ftp.xmission.com / pub / lists / hist_text / archive / v01.n537 < prev next >

Wrap

Internet Message Format | 2000-05-09 | 42KB

From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #537 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, May 10 2000 Volume 01 : Number 537 In this issue: -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis -áááááá MtMan-List: Goose Bay Workshops -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis -áááááá MtMan-List: Lucet -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) -áááááá MtMan-List: WNS 2001 -áááááá Re: MtMan-List:Lucet cordage and round cord -áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Lucet -áááááá MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-List cordage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 01:24:29 -0700 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis ole--- well put---remember this is a brotherhood here to help each other---NUFF SAID---CUT the BS---I have been slapped by the period pirots before and then went back with my documentation and proved them wrong---done my homework and was 5% smarter---lets get off of this subject all of us know its a tender one---we aint judgeing brothers---if a brother done wrong he is told politely and on a one to one basis---each has helped in that scenario before---I have even went and loaned stuff to a guy to help him be period correct if i could help him--- lets shake hands and close this one out guys--- YMHOSANT =+= HAWK Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:13:18 EDT From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis Reading all these debates about authenticity reminds me of the delightful "Confederates in the Attic" by Tony Horwitz. The book chronicles his adventures while visiting various battlefields, and his involvement with rabid Civil War reinactors. These people were so determined to be authentic, that they actually became competitive over portrayals of "best bloated battlefield corpse" . Hmm. How could anyone NOT be for authenticity, accuracy and knowledge? But at the end of the day, it's good to know I don't have to bag a possum for my dinner. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:19:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> Subject: MtMan-List: Goose Bay Workshops Hallo... Just a note to let folks know that Goose Bay's website has moved to: http://www.goosebayworkshops.com Your Most Obedient Servant... Lee Newbill of North Idaho Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders www.geocities.com/northscribe - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 03:22:36 -0500 From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) - --=====================_61169712==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Bill, I see this differently. Why would you ever need a strand of sinew much over 12" long? Nice if you can get it but 6" works. Certainly not for sewing, splicing a bowstring is readily done; & sinew is self gluing when used for serving strings, points and fletchings. Electrician's shooting line (aka, artificial sinew) is handy in long lengths -- BUT -- how often do you really need to use it in long lengths? If you don't heat weld the knots, they come undone. For threads, snares, lines and every other kind of such -- many other materials are useful as cordage, horse hair, bark, intestines, vines, weeds, hides; all kinds of stuff makes cordage. In todays mountains no one is ever very far from a handy hunk of baling wire &/or twine which can serve many needs, I figure it's fair to use what you find, so much we find is different. Field expedient drop spindles can be readily fashioned and would be a skill a mother would have taught -- those born to the period. Rawhide and sinew can be made to seize tighter and bind more securely than any nylon fastening. How does a coil of nylon improve survivability over a small wad of easily replaced sinew pieces? Sinew comes free with meat, guts, hide, bone and fat; other handy survival items. At best artificial sinew is a convenience. It is not demonstrably superior to real sinew for the purposes for which it is used. It offers no particular survival advantage other than convenience. I've used it but, could never find a real justification for it. I haven't been able to find my spool of it (1 spool lasts a lifetime) in better than 15 years now. Must have figured I wouldn't be needing it when I put it away last. I use linen for convenience. I have a spool of unwaxed 4 strand twist. For fine sewing I split lengths to two threads and re-spin the thread on the turned drop spindle I use at home. If I need a heavy thread I untwist and spin together as many strands as is appropriate in lengths suitable to the work. You can buy the thread in varying numbers of strands, in left or right hand twist, on each spool. I find it easiest to have one spool of unwaxed (for ease in reworking). Wax it as you work. If I need 5, 6, or ? strand -- I make it. Sewing is slower if the thread is too long. 36" of thread is only needed when doing a full saddle stitch. For all other sewing threads are best cut and used in shorter lengths. Use a second thread if needed, the work will progress with greater ease when the thread isn't getting constantly tangled. I have a prepared ball of heavily waxed thread (1 1/4" +/- dia., in my possibles, the little I've needed on the trail has made the one ball last for years. I have a small wad of sinew as well for the things it can do linen and nylon cannot,. A convenient rock, or stick, or whatever (?) can serve to spin your thread. A made drop spindle is nice to have at home. A spinning wheel is a higher tech answer to do the same, useful if you really need to make a lot of thread. At some point it is instructive to acquire some flax (or any other spinable/twistable fiber) and try making thread and heavier cordage from the beginning. Braiding is another cordage skill. Spun materials can be re-spun and/or braided as best suits the work. Cordage is critical to survival. From thread to rope the skills acquired are complimentary and equally necessary. A set of skills nearly as important as fire. Cordage can ease making fire if all you have is wood: a bow drill is easier to use than a hand drill. The convenience of artificial sinew is seductive. Using it risks not learning all the lessons required for one to be certain. It is about being absolutely certain. John... Note: the spools of thread I refer to are the large commercial ones about 4" long and 3" in diameter. At 08:50 AM 5/9/00 -0600, you wrote: >I was watching that antiques roadshow program one time and a guy brought >in an Indian arrow quiver. It really looked nice and he was sure he had a >pot of money. But the antique guy showed him that it was factory tanned >leather, sewed with artificial sinew, which he explained was a hi-tech >modern product. You could see the guy just wither. But it brought to mind >a couple of questions. In true survival situations, would you be able to >obtain enough sinew to take care of whatever it might be that you'd need >it for? Since sinew is typically 12" long or less, and splicing it is >tricky at best, would you carry 15 feet or so in your possibles pouch, or >rather, perhaps, a small coil of artificial sinew which is infinitely >long? Historical authenticity is great and a fine goal, but what if your >life (or in some cases, your budget) depended on it? >Bill C Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> - --=====================_61169712==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <html> Bill, I see this differently. Why would you ever need a strand of sinew much over 12" long? Nice if you can get it but 6" works. Certainly not for sewing, splicing a bowstring is readily done; & sinew is self gluing when used for serving strings, points and fletchings. Electrician's shooting line (aka, artificial sinew) is handy in long lengths -- BUT -- how often do you really need to use it in long lengths? If you don't heat weld the knots, they come undone. For threads, snares, lines and every other kind of such -- many other materials are useful as cordage, horse hair, bark, intestines, vines, weeds, hides; all kinds of stuff makes cordage. In todays mountains no one is ever very far from a handy hunk of baling wire &/or twine which can serve many needs, I figure it's fair to use what you find, so much we find is different. Field expedient drop spindles can be readily fashioned and would be a skill a mother would have taught -- those born to the period. Rawhide and sinew can be made to seize tighter and bind more securely than any nylon fastening. How does a coil of nylon improve survivability over a small wad of easily replaced sinew pieces? Sinew comes free with meat, guts, hide, bone and fat; other handy survival items. At best artificial sinew is a convenience. It is not demonstrably superior to real sinew for the purposes for which it is used. It offers no particular survival advantage other than convenience. I've used it but, could never find a real justification for it. I haven't been able to find my spool of it (1 spool lasts a lifetime) in better than 15 years now. Must have figured I wouldn't be needing it when I put it away last. I use linen for convenience. I have a spool of unwaxed 4 strand twist. For fine sewing I split lengths to two threads and re-spin the thread on the turned drop spindle I use at home. If I need a heavy thread I untwist and spin together as many strands as is appropriate in lengths suitable to the work. You can buy the thread in varying numbers of strands, in left or right hand twist, on each spool. I find it easiest to have one spool of unwaxed (for ease in reworking). Wax it as you work. If I need 5, 6, or ? strand -- I make it. Sewing is slower if the thread is too long. 36" of thread is only needed when doing a full saddle stitch. For all other sewing threads are best cut and used in shorter lengths. Use a second thread if needed, the work will progress with greater ease when the thread isn't getting constantly tangled. I have a prepared ball of heavily waxed thread (1 1/4" +/- dia., in my possibles, the little I've needed on the trail has made the one ball last for years. I have a small wad of sinew as well for the things it can do linen and nylon cannot,. A convenient rock, or stick, or whatever (?) can serve to spin your thread. A made drop spindle is nice to have at home. A spinning wheel is a higher tech answer to do the same, useful if you really need to make a lot of thread. At some point it is instructive to acquire some flax (or any other spinable/twistable fiber) and try making thread and heavier cordage from the beginning. Braiding is another cordage skill. Spun materials can be re-spun and/or braided as best suits the work. Cordage is critical to survival. From thread to rope the skills acquired are complimentary and equally necessary. A set of skills nearly as important as fire. Cordage can ease making fire if all you have is wood: a bow drill is easier to use than a hand drill. The convenience of artificial sinew is seductive. Using it risks not learning all the lessons required for one to be certain. It is about being absolutely certain. John... Note: the spools of thread I refer to are the large commercial ones about 4" long and 3" in diameter. At 08:50 AM 5/9/00 -0600, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite cite>I was watching that antiques roadshow program one time and a guy brought in an Indian arrow quiver. It really looked nice and he was sure he had a pot of money. But the antique guy showed him that it was factory tanned leather, sewed with artificial sinew, which he explained was a hi-tech modern product. You could see the guy just wither. But it brought to mind a couple of questions. In true survival situations, would you be able to obtain enough sinew to take care of whatever it might be that you'd need it for? Since sinew is typically 12" long or less, and splicing it is tricky at best, would you carry 15 feet or so in your possibles pouch, or rather, perhaps, a small coil of artificial sinew which is infinitely long? Historical authenticity is great and a fine goal, but what if your life (or in some cases, your budget) depended on it? Bill C</blockquote> <div>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.</div> John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> </html> - --=====================_61169712==_.ALT-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:40:45 -0400 From: "D Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:was saw now its cordage Hawk, Is that "Lucette" thing look like a thick slingshot, sorta? I think I have seen those in a catalog somewhere, in with the spinning supplies.. I will have to look before I go out to the shop.. Cordage, eh? That IS a pure wonderment....And square to booot.. Would be fun to bring that square stuff to a doins and show the Brothers somthing queersome..<G> D PS.. It does my heart good to know I can still ruffle feathers good, when I am a mind to..<BG> And the invitation still goes, I would like to get on the ground with any one of ya's. ('Cept mebby Pendleton) D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning" - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:01:44 -0400 From: "D Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis BLUELODGE WROTE: . Did any of you guys go to your first 'voo naked and unarmed until you learned what to wear? Sorry guys, but I ain't turnin' loose of this one so easy... Mainly cause it touches raw nerves (my favorite thing) As a matter of fact Bluelodge, my wife and I started with chrome tans, artificial sinew, enough fookin camp eqipment to melt down and recast into a damned tank and all the trappings of the "typical" skinner. Hell, we were married "buckskinner style" Me, elk warshirt and pants (bright chrometan, nylon sewn) Gwen had a white antelope dress, also sewn with nylon and all the "reservation" bangles and baubles.. And we did this for several years... And then I started doing some research and things started getting replaced & pared down..(read: IMPROVE) and our "kits" got better & better.. Then I met the fella that sponsered me into the AMM, then it REALLY fell into place. Gwen & I are constantly improving our gear, clothing &ct. It doesn't set in a damned trailer between doins.. We both spend an enormous amount of time wandering the woods, mts and lakes. SO what we use, works. And what we carry into a doins (not much) is what we carry when we are 20 miles from the nearest 2 legged critter. What you see is what you get./ And in hindsight, I sure as hell wish someone would have slapped me upside the head all those years ago and said, "If you're gonna do this, do it right, from the start" It sure as hell would have save us a damned ton of money and frustration as we found out that something wasn't right, and had to be gotten rid of or replaced.. Lost a lot of $$$ getting rid of stuff. The amount I could have saved by doing it right the first time probably would have paid for a brace of matching L&R Caywood smoothie pistols. So maybe thru all the whining, bitching, and crying "NAZI" of those too damned lazy or stupid to try to improve their gear, some new fella will take stock and the "light" will go on. Then, I will have done for someone something that I wished would have happened to me along time ago. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning" - ----- Original Message ----- From: <TEXASLAZYB@aol.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 11:37 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Authenticity Nazis > I don't know what to tell you puristsDo you ride in on > unshod horses? I agree that everyone should strive to be authentic but this > is supposed to be fun as well as a learning experience. > > Y'all argue. I'll still do as I wish, > Bluelodge > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:37:32 -0400 From: "D Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Lucet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_013B_01BFBA5A.FC06F2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hawk, Found a lucet on the web. I typed "lucet" into Dogpile and came up with = a boatload of examples, instructions and references... Neat toy!!!! D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning" - ------=_NextPart_000_013B_01BFBA5A.FC06F2C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Hawk,</DIV> <DIV> Found a lucet on the web. I typed = "lucet"=20 into Dogpile and came up with a boatload of examples, instructions and=20 references... Neat toy!!!!</DIV> <DIV>D</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math=20 e" DOUBLE EDGE = FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements = <A=20 href=3D"http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<= /A> =20 "Knowing how is just the beginning" </DIV></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_013B_01BFBA5A.FC06F2C0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:19:47 -0600 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFBA50.1F692E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow! Thanks for the information! I am printing this and keeping it. = Actually, I do carry a small coil of what we called (as kids) and I = think it still is, squidding line in my pouch. Strange this is, I've = never really used it. Strong as hell, round woven stuff from the = fishermen on the coast of Maine. But thanks, John. It sounds like you = have really worked this stuff out. What do you think of Buck's new = cordage tool? Bill -----Original Message----- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 2:30 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Artificial Sinew (was saws) =20 =20 Bill, =20 I see this differently. =20 Why would you ever need a strand of sinew much over 12" long? Nice = if you can get it but 6" works. =20 Certainly not for sewing, splicing a bowstring is readily done; & = sinew is self gluing when used for serving strings, points and = fletchings. =20 Electrician's shooting line (aka, artificial sinew) is handy in long = lengths -- BUT -- how often do you really need to use it in long = lengths? If you don't heat weld the knots, they come undone. =20 For threads, snares, lines and every other kind of such -- many = other materials are useful as cordage, horse hair, bark, intestines, = vines, weeds, hides; all kinds of stuff makes cordage. In todays = mountains no one is ever very far from a handy hunk of baling wire &/or = twine which can serve many needs, I figure it's fair to use what you = find, so much we find is different. Field expedient drop spindles can = be readily fashioned and would be a skill a mother would have taught -- = those born to the period. =20 Rawhide and sinew can be made to seize tighter and bind more = securely than any nylon fastening. =20 =20 How does a coil of nylon improve survivability over a small wad of = easily replaced sinew pieces? Sinew comes free with meat, guts, hide, = bone and fat; other handy survival items. =20 At best artificial sinew is a convenience. It is not demonstrably = superior to real sinew for the purposes for which it is used. It offers = no particular survival advantage other than convenience. =20 =20 I've used it but, could never find a real justification for it. I = haven't been able to find my spool of it (1 spool lasts a lifetime) in = better than 15 years now. Must have figured I wouldn't be needing it = when I put it away last. =20 I use linen for convenience. I have a spool of unwaxed 4 strand = twist. For fine sewing I split lengths to two threads and re-spin the = thread on the turned drop spindle I use at home. If I need a heavy = thread I untwist and spin together as many strands as is appropriate in = lengths suitable to the work. You can buy the thread in varying numbers = of strands, in left or right hand twist, on each spool. I find it = easiest to have one spool of unwaxed (for ease in reworking). Wax it as = you work. =20 =20 If I need 5, 6, or ? strand -- I make it. Sewing is slower if the = thread is too long. 36" of thread is only needed when doing a full = saddle stitch. For all other sewing threads are best cut and used in = shorter lengths. Use a second thread if needed, the work will progress = with greater ease when the thread isn't getting constantly tangled. =20 I have a prepared ball of heavily waxed thread (1 1/4" +/- dia., in = my possibles, the little I've needed on the trail has made the one ball = last for years. I have a small wad of sinew as well for the things it = can do linen and nylon cannot,. =20 =20 A convenient rock, or stick, or whatever (?) can serve to spin your = thread. A made drop spindle is nice to have at home. A spinning wheel = is a higher tech answer to do the same, useful if you really need to = make a lot of thread. =20 At some point it is instructive to acquire some flax (or any other = spinable/twistable fiber) and try making thread and heavier cordage from = the beginning. Braiding is another cordage skill. Spun materials can = be re-spun and/or braided as best suits the work. =20 Cordage is critical to survival. From thread to rope the skills = acquired are complimentary and equally necessary. A set of skills = nearly as important as fire. Cordage can ease making fire if all you = have is wood: a bow drill is easier to use than a hand drill. =20 The convenience of artificial sinew is seductive. Using it risks = not learning all the lessons required for one to be certain. It is = about being absolutely certain. =20 John... =20 Note: the spools of thread I refer to are the large commercial ones = about 4" long and 3" in diameter. =20 =20 =20 At 08:50 AM 5/9/00 -0600, you wrote: =20 I was watching that antiques roadshow program one time and a guy = brought in an Indian arrow quiver. It really looked nice and he was sure = he had a pot of money. But the antique guy showed him that it was = factory tanned leather, sewed with artificial sinew, which he explained = was a hi-tech modern product. You could see the guy just wither. But it = brought to mind a couple of questions. In true survival situations, = would you be able to obtain enough sinew to take care of whatever it = might be that you'd need it for? Since sinew is typically 12" long or = less, and splicing it is tricky at best, would you carry 15 feet or so = in your possibles pouch, or rather, perhaps, a small coil of artificial = sinew which is infinitely long? Historical authenticity is great and a = fine goal, but what if your life (or in some cases, your budget) = depended on it? Bill C =20 =20 =20 Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFBA50.1F692E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Wow! Thanks for the information! I = am printing=20 this and keeping it. Actually, I do carry a small coil of what we called = (as=20 kids) and I think it still is, squidding line in my pouch. Strange this = is, I've=20 never really used it. Strong as hell, round woven stuff from the = fishermen on=20 the coast of Maine. But thanks, John. It sounds like you have really = worked this=20 stuff out. What do you think of Buck's new cordage tool?</DIV> <DIV>Bill</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <DIV>-----Original = Message----- From:=20 John Kramer <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:kramer@kramerize.com">kramer@kramerize.com</A>> T= o:=20 <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>> Date:=20 Wednesday, May 10, 2000 2:30 AM Subject: Re: = MtMan-List:=20 Artificial Sinew (was saws) </DIV>Bill, I=20 see this differently. Why would you ever need a strand of = sinew much=20 over 12" long? Nice if you can get it but 6"=20 works. Certainly not for sewing, splicing a bowstring is = readily=20 done; & sinew is self gluing when used for serving strings, = points and=20 fletchings. Electrician's shooting line (aka, artificial = sinew) is=20 handy in long lengths -- BUT -- how often do you really need to use = it in=20 long lengths? If you don't heat weld the knots, they come=20 undone. For threads, snares, lines and every other kind of = such --=20 many other materials are useful as cordage, horse hair, bark, = intestines,=20 vines, weeds, hides; all kinds of stuff makes cordage. In = todays=20 mountains no one is ever very far from a handy hunk of baling wire = &/or=20 twine which can serve many needs, I figure it's fair to use what you = find,=20 so much we find is different. Field expedient drop spindles = can be=20 readily fashioned and would be a skill a mother would have taught -- = those=20 born to the period. Rawhide and sinew can be made to seize = tighter=20 and bind more securely than any nylon fastening. How = does a=20 coil of nylon improve survivability over a small wad of easily = replaced=20 sinew pieces? Sinew comes free with meat, guts, hide, bone and = fat;=20 other handy survival items. At best artificial sinew is a=20 convenience. It is not demonstrably superior to real sinew for = the=20 purposes for which it is used. It offers no particular = survival=20 advantage other than convenience. I've used it = but,=20 could never find a real justification for it. I haven't been = able to=20 find my spool of it (1 spool lasts a lifetime) in better than 15 = years=20 now. Must have figured I wouldn't be needing it when I put it = away=20 last. I use linen for convenience. I have a spool of = unwaxed 4=20 strand twist. For fine sewing I split lengths to two threads = and=20 re-spin the thread on the turned drop spindle I use at home. = If I need=20 a heavy thread I untwist and spin together as many strands as is = appropriate=20 in lengths suitable to the work. You can buy the thread in = varying=20 numbers of strands, in left or right hand twist, on each = spool. I find=20 it easiest to have one spool of unwaxed (for ease in = reworking). Wax=20 it as you work. If I need 5, 6, or ? strand -- I make=20 it. Sewing is slower if the thread is too long. 36" = of=20 thread is only needed when doing a full saddle stitch. For all = other=20 sewing threads are best cut and used in shorter lengths. Use a = second=20 thread if needed, the work will progress with greater ease when the = thread=20 isn't getting constantly tangled. I have a prepared ball of = heavily=20 waxed thread (1 1/4" +/- dia., in my possibles, the little I've = needed=20 on the trail has made the one ball last for years. I have a = small wad=20 of sinew as well for the things it can do linen and nylon = cannot,. =20 A convenient rock, or stick, or whatever (?) can serve to = spin your=20 thread. A made drop spindle is nice to have at home. A = spinning=20 wheel is a higher tech answer to do the same, useful if you really = need to=20 make a lot of thread. At some point it is instructive to = acquire some=20 flax (or any other spinable/twistable fiber) and try making thread = and=20 heavier cordage from the beginning. Braiding is another = cordage=20 skill. Spun materials can be re-spun and/or braided as best = suits the=20 work. Cordage is critical to survival. From thread to = rope the=20 skills acquired are complimentary and equally necessary. = A set=20 of skills nearly as important as fire. Cordage can ease making = fire if=20 all you have is wood: a bow drill is easier to use than a hand=20 drill. The convenience of artificial sinew is = seductive. Using=20 it risks not learning all the lessons required for one to be = certain. =20 It is about being absolutely certain. John... Note: = the spools=20 of thread I refer to are the large commercial ones about 4" = long and=20 3" in diameter. At 08:50 AM 5/9/00 -0600, you=20 wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE cite type =3D cite>I was watching that = antiques=20 roadshow program one time and a guy brought in an Indian arrow = quiver.=20 It really looked nice and he was sure he had a pot of money. But = the=20 antique guy showed him that it was factory tanned leather, sewed = with=20 artificial sinew, which he explained was a hi-tech modern = product. You=20 could see the guy just wither. But it brought to mind a couple = of=20 questions. In true survival situations, would you be able to = obtain=20 enough sinew to take care of whatever it might be that you'd = need it=20 for? Since sinew is typically 12" long or less, and = splicing it is=20 tricky at best, would you carry 15 feet or so in your possibles = pouch,=20 or rather, perhaps, a small coil of artificial sinew which is = infinitely=20 long? Historical authenticity is great and a fine goal, but what = if your=20 life (or in some cases, your budget) depended on it? Bill C<FONT=20 size=3D3></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.</DIV>John = Kramer =20 <kramer@kramerize.com> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BFBA50.1F692E00-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 06:56:15 -0700 (MST) From: delis@aztec.asu.edu (BRUCE S. DE LIS) Subject: MtMan-List: WNS 2001 FYI Well we got dates, new name, etc. Start Planning for 2001 Book Mark!!!!!! http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb1087119 NMLRA Western National Shoot.. Shot Gunning Events Returning to Ben Avery Tell your friends... - -- A.K.A. Penny Pincher - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:23:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "Susan Gilbert" <sgilbert@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Lucet cordage and round cord On Wed, 10 May 2000 00:34:23 -0700, hawknest4@juno.com wrote: >as I would say its a wonderment---just a pure wonderment---and I figured >out how to start it and make it work---wish there was a like tool to make >round cordage and weave it the same way--- > >anyone know if there is a tool like the Lussette (SP) tool that will >brade round cordage--- Lucets have been around since Renaissance times. It is one of the period "needlecrafts" I demonstrate at Voos and living history events. The cordage can be made as thin as sewing thread for chemise drawstrings or thick as ship cable using hemp. I even made a halter for a horse using thin strips of left over brain tan. There IS a gizmo that makes a round cord, rather like a lucet. It is called a "corker". It looks like an oversized spool made out of hard wood with 4 wooden pegs in the top. You make a "knitted" cord by wrapping and looping the thread over the pegs. My research has found them in Colonial American womens craft supplies. I bet many of you saw a homemade version as a kid. When I was in Girl Scouts we made "knitting spools" out of old wooden thread spools and finishing nails. Both lucets and corkers can be made in differing sizes and that effects the thickness of the cordage you make. I have lucets less than 3 inches tall that make very fine drawstrings using silk thread. The one I demo with is about 9 inch tall and uses crochet weight cotton or wool. Both are relatively easy to make, I bought my first lucet 25 years ago and have made all the ones since. The corker is also possible to make yourself with a drill press and a pocket knife for a solid wood one or wood and metal if you use a spool and nails. Any one interested in finding out more info can get ahold of me by e-mail, so I don't clutter up the list. Sue Gilbert 6 Beaver Camp sgilbert@avalon.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:08:07 -0700 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lucet d> drop me a note offline and let me know what the websites are that you found---I dont have ready access to the internet so must have the addres then go to a machine that lets me get on the web HAWK Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:45:45 -0700 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-List cordage D yepper the thing looks like a slingshot with pointed tips on it---they need to be made from hardwood that is pretty close grain---easy to start when you do it a couple of times and it brades---real tight square cordage---it also has a hole in the vee of the tool for the cordage that you made to go thru---its a pure wonderment how it works and you can sit around and tlk amd make the cordage---makes it so easy that you dont have to even think just pull your stitches---and it adds a lot of agility to your fingers and keeps your mind occupied---a good theoripy tool for someone that can't do much of anything else---could make some hellatious cordage out of gut if it was prepared right and would also make a exceptionally strong bow string---remings me of when we usto make the square brade bracelets when i was a kid-except tighter weave--i need to find out how to properly spell the name of this tool---also have a wooden rope twister that i play with---get the hemp binder twine and it makes darn good ropes for use around camp---been playing with that kind of junk the last couple of months-- saw a cast iron rope twister a couple of years ago and decided you could duplicate it out of wood---easy as hell to make and would truly be period correct in making period rope---just need 3 hooks to hold the cordage thay you are twisting---I use commercial screw eyes and they work great---you can add one strand of colored cotton thread to the hemp to make your rope distinktive from someone-elses if you want---I saw the original one in smithsonian and it was dated in the 1700 time range but as a field expedient you can make it out of wood instead of metal if you didnt want to make hundreds of feet of twisted cordage---with the roap twister you can add as many strands as long as you do it in threes--3 's fun to play with---am in the process of trying to figure out how to make twisted cordage from a odd number of lines like 5 and see how that will work---three or multipals of three is all I have done well with so far---- maby one of the ladies on the list can give us some more info on the luzzette thing ---can you brade more than just the square stuff would like to be able to brade round rope but havent figured that out yet---am sure there must be a simple tool that you could do that with also---the same tool may work just may have to thread it different--- angelia ---you got any info on this------again just having fun and keeping my hands busy while sitteing around---seems i always have to be busy--- YMHOSANT HAWK Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce On Wed, 10 May 2000 07:40:45 -0400 "D Miles" <deforge1@bright.net> writes: > Hawk, > Is that "Lucette" thing look like a thick slingshot, sorta? I think > I have > seen those in a catalog somewhere, in with the spinning supplies.. > I will have to look before I go out to the shop.. Cordage, eh? That > IS a > pure wonderment....And square to booot.. Would be fun to bring that > square > stuff to a doins and show the Brothers somthing queersome..<G> > D > > PS.. It does my heart good to know I can still ruffle feathers good, > when I > am a mind to..<BG> And the invitation still goes, I would like to > get on the > ground with any one of ya's. ('Cept mebby Pendleton) > D ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #537 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.