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hist_text-digest       Wednesday, March 29 2000       Volume 01 : Number 510



In this issue:

-áááááá MtMan-List: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles
-áááááá MtMan-List: fur trade museam..
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: fur trade museam..
-áááááá MtMan-List:Thank you for advice on new gun
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun
-áááááá MtMan-List: saddles/mecate
-áááááá MtMan-List: Nationals 2001
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: saddles/mecate

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:00:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: tipi poles

Ho the List,

It's starting to warm up in the NW and with the sap rising in the lodgepole
pine, it's a good time to go cut a few. I'll pass on a neat trick for those
of you that have a lodge and are interested.
Usually after the poles are cut they are barked in the woods, and if you're
as slow as me, the rest of the day is spent bent over a draw knife....hard
work. Now, I haul the poles home with the bark on, lay em out on the patio,
fire up the water pressure cleaner, and just blow the bark off. The Indians
would be proud! What use to take me about an hour to do a 27' pole, now only
takes about the same to do all 17 poles, and the finished poles are
beautiful. You still have to cut and file the limbs off, and sand the bumps.
I seal my poles with a water seal or whatever to keep em pretty.
The poles cut early in the spring seem to have a harder under wood, just
below the bark, and the high pressure water doesn't cut it unless you get
real close and hold there. Poles cut later in the summer are somewhat softer,
so you have to be a bit more careful...just back off a bit.
Leave your poles as long as you can get away with. The Crow used such long
poles the tipi had the appearance of a huge hourglass. My poles are 27' for a
20' lodge and I carry them on top of a short bed truck. I've not been stopped
by the Man yet, but local laws do apply. I'm working on a boat trailer with a
rack to carry the poles and gear ... it should allow for some long poles, and
I don't have to unload everything when I get home ... may even slip a canoe
it there too!

Ymos,
Steve

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:45:36 -0600
From: Don Neighbors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles

Nice ideal!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:48:34 -0600
From: Don Neighbors <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: fur trade museam..

I asked several weeks ago about how to get to the museam of fur trade
and had a good response. Since then I lost all memory on my  smokesingle
(computer)  can you please forward new information to me.  Thank you,
Donnie


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:39:09 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles

Hi Steve, I cut my lodge poles in the spring.  Last year I showed some
others how to use a piece of flint to cut the bark to where I could get a
finger nail or a thumb nail under the bark and pull long strips of bark off.
Takes about 10 minutes for a 27' lodge pole.  Your hands get sticky with sap
but it washes off..  Your right the Crows do like long lodge poles that
extend 10' above.  Are you pitching a Crow Lodge?  I have gone back to
smaller camps myself.  I am getting to old to handle the big stuff.  Now I
am thinking about a 14'.
Walt
Park City, Montana


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:47:28 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes

Pie,
1=pie crust
6 cups fresh sliced apples (tart)
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 cup brown sugar
1 table spoon butter
1/4 teaspoon salt
1 tablespoon lemmon juice
 Mix all ingridients in bowl and pour into pie crust.
Cover top of pie with criss crossed pcs of dough.
Sprinkle top with a mixture of sugar and cinamon.
Bake in bake oven  at 350 deg for 1 hr to 11/4 hr.
YMOS
Ole # 718

- ----------
>From: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes
>Date: Tue, Mar 28, 2000, 12:15 AM
>

>Hello the list,
>    Its been  awhile since I last chimed in so I figured I'd better come out
>of hibernation.   Just got done watching a video done by a gent named Mark
>Baker. It was an instructional/informational video on the eastern long hunter
>circa 1760-1780-ish.  If you havent seen these tapes, they are worth your
>time.   he is a history professor and has done incredible amounts of
>research.   any ways enough of the commercials..... the reason I'm writing is
>that my buddy mentioned that he wanted to make some "Apple Pie" but couldn't
>find a recipe.   I remember many moons ago I saw several recipes come across
>the list.  could you "chefs" run those recipes again?  Thanks in advance for
>your help.
>
>Wade "Sleeps Loudly" Smith
>Meridian, ID
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:53:13 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes

Hi, Ole,

A good recipe to use the fine flour found in the 1836-1837 rendezvous
supplies list.
Walt
Park City, Montana


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes


> Pie,
> 1=pie crust
> 6 cups fresh sliced apples (tart)
> 1/2 tsp cinnamon
> 1/2 cup brown sugar
> 1 table spoon butter
> 1/4 teaspoon salt
> 1 tablespoon lemmon juice
>  Mix all ingridients in bowl and pour into pie crust.
> Cover top of pie with criss crossed pcs of dough.
> Sprinkle top with a mixture of sugar and cinamon.
> Bake in bake oven  at 350 deg for 1 hr to 11/4 hr.
> YMOS
> Ole # 718
>
> ----------
> >From: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes
> >Date: Tue, Mar 28, 2000, 12:15 AM
> >
>
> >Hello the list,
> >    Its been  awhile since I last chimed in so I figured I'd better come
out
> >of hibernation.   Just got done watching a video done by a gent named
Mark
> >Baker. It was an instructional/informational video on the eastern long
hunter
> >circa 1760-1780-ish.  If you havent seen these tapes, they are worth your
> >time.   he is a history professor and has done incredible amounts of
> >research.   any ways enough of the commercials..... the reason I'm
writing is
> >that my buddy mentioned that he wanted to make some "Apple Pie" but
couldn't
> >find a recipe.   I remember many moons ago I saw several recipes come
across
> >the list.  could you "chefs" run those recipes again?  Thanks in advance
for
> >your help.
> >
> >Wade "Sleeps Loudly" Smith
> >Meridian, ID
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:14:53 -0600
From: Don Neighbors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles

Walt, Where is Park City, Montana. Have a old frind that lives in
Hamoltin. Have not heard from him in years. Donnie


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:14:34 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles

Hi Don,
Hamilton is in the Bitterroot Valley in south western Montana.  I have a
daughter over there and some good friends who are reenactors as well.

Park City is in south central Montana.  Where Jim Bridger and the other
large body of Mountain Men spent the winter of 1836 and 1835 in a 5 month
long camp called the Rocky Mountain College.  This is also the place where
Capt. Clark and his men built dug out canoes to go down the Yellowstone.
And where John Colter started out becoming the first of the American
Mountain Men.
Walt
Park City, Montana


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Neighbors" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles


> Walt, Where is Park City, Montana. Have a old frind that lives in
> Hamoltin. Have not heard from him in years. Donnie
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:50:15 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles

In a message dated 3/28/00 10:40:30 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Are you pitching a Crow Lodge?  I have gone back to

smaller camps myself.  I am getting to old to handle the big stuff.  Now I

am thinking about a 14'. >>

Hallo Walt,

No....I've got a Sioux lodge made by Nomadics.....the one on page 6 of the
latest "Tipi Living" magazine. I can still set up the 20 footer by myself in
about an hour... or two hours if I have help....<g> My side kick has a 16'
that's pretty darn small but goes up easy...don't think I'd go smaller than
that. That's one way to get closer to the wimmins though....
Ymos,
Steve

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:00:21 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles

> Hallo Walt,
>
> No....I've got a Sioux lodge made by Nomadics.....the one on page 6 of the
> latest "Tipi Living" magazine. I can still set up the 20 footer by myself
in
> about an hour... or two hours if I have help....<g> My side kick has a 16'
> that's pretty darn small but goes up easy...don't think I'd go smaller
than
> that. That's one way to get closer to the wimmins though....
> Ymos,
> Steve

I have been using 16s.  Remember you shrink as you get older.  I pitched a
lodge for one of the local museums a few months ago and it was all I could
do to handle the 27' lodge poles.  As a hunting camp 16' are hard to beat.

Nomadics.  I have a 20 year old Nomadics that I still use along with my new
one.
Walt


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:10:47 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles

Bill Cunningham taught me a neat trick years back.  Take your tipi pole, green
or dried harder than flint, no matter; sink it into your local ditch with water
flowing past.  Leave it there overnight.  Next day you can peel it slicker 'n a
gut, just like peelin' a carrot in the kitchen.  It really works.
Rick



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:08:41 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fur trade museam..

Its in Chadron, NE, and there are plenty of signs once you get there... Was
there 2 years ago... WELL worth the trip...

Ad Miller

> I asked several weeks ago about how to get to the museam of fur trade
> and had a good response. Since then I lost all memory on my  smokesingle
> (computer)  can you please forward new information to me.  Thank you,
> Donnie



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:51:52 -0600 (CST)
From: "Susan Gilbert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List:Thank you for advice on new gun

    Thank you all who responded with help on Brian's new gun.   Your
collective  knowledge and experience is a valuable gift to the rest of us.
      We are doing our own research, of course, but...so many books, so
little time.  It is so great to be able to pick the brains of you kind folks when
we get stuck and don't know where to start.

gratefully,

Sue Gilbert
6 Beaver Camp





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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:34:26 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun

> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

- --MS_Mac_OE_3037116867_55476_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

John,
You forgot one important thing about burrying your ax or tomahawk,
Don't lick your fingers!
Ole # 718
- ----------
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun
Date: Tue, Mar 28, 2000, 10:05 AM


The most critical item in making a new ramrod is to work with splits of woo=
d
not sawn wood.  By maintaining full length grain through the entire length
maximum strength is maintained.  If full length grain is used not nearly so
many ramrods will need to be made than if you use pre-made dowel rod from
sawn stock.

Sharp shards and flakes from knapping musket flints are excellent for
scraping and shaping the rough wood.  Sandstone can be used for --- guess
what?

Though kerosene is the modern substitute for coal oil which was available i=
n
the east in small measure, the below is an old method.  See my posting a
couple of three Christmases back on the proper uses of linseed oil to avoid
the problems of modern processing.

Ferrules can be well mounted with sealing wax along with the cross pinning.=

Very similar to what used to be called spud cement which can be used
similarly.

Ramrods, shovel handles, axe handles, walking sticks, and war clubs all wil=
l
benefit if you bury them in a large pile of horse manure for 6 months.  Add=
s
considerable flex to the finished work.  Be certain the wood is well
seasoned and ready for final sanding and finishing before you bury it.  The=
n
finish it.

John...

At 08:11 AM 3/28/00 -0800, Bill wrote:
I have taken a piece of PVC, put a plug in one end and shoved anywhere from
1 to a couple dozen ramrod blanks (straight grain dowels) in there, then
filled it with kerosene, put a plug on the top, and let them soak for as
long as three months, then removed them and let them dry. They still are no=
t
bullet proof, but somewhat improved. It depends on whether you have the tim=
e
and desire. You can purchase new ends (they don't cost that much) and make
up several ramrods at one time. That way, when one breaks (and they will)
you have a spare at hand.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun


>Sue,
>
>I and many experienced ml shooters will council you to remove the
adjustable
>sight and replace it with a fixed open sight. Once it is adjusted to where
>the gun shoots with it's best load, it need never be messed with again. It
>will not move either and thus will not change the point of impact at an
>awkward moment.
>
>The ferrules on the ram rod should have been "pinned" with  brass or coppe=
r
>wire but were probably just glued on with something like epoxy. Very
careful
>heating of the metal over a candle  will usually loosen them regardless of
>how they were glued. If they have been pinned then you will have to punch
>the old pin out to pull the ferrule off.
>
>Once replaced on a new rod, a small hole should be drilled through ferrule
>and rod and a pin of that size pushed through and peened into place along
>with the new glue which can be epoxy or any water proof glue.
>
>It is a good idea to pick very straight grain wood, preferably hickory as =
a
>ram rod material. It can be soaked in kerosene for a month and then sealed
>with linseed oil. This will make the rod stronger and more flexible and
less
>likely to break again. Straight grain is the most important though. Some
>folks like metal rods or fiber glass rods, even synthetic rods but if your
>husband is concerned with authenticity, wood is the only choice. Good luck
>and feel free to ask questions. I remain....
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti



John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/ <http://www.kramerize.com/> >

mail to: <[e-mail]>


- --MS_Mac_OE_3037116867_55476_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
John,<BR>
You forgot one important thing about burrying your ax or tomahawk, <BR>
Don't lick your fingers!<BR>
Ole # 718<BR>
- ----------<BR>
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]><BR>
To: [e-mail]<BR>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun<BR>
Date: Tue, Mar 28, 2000, 10:05 AM<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>The most critical item in making a new ramrod is to work with s=
plits of wood not sawn wood.  By maintaining full length grain through =
the entire length maximum strength is maintained.  If full length grain=
 is used not nearly so many ramrods will need to be made than if you use pre=
- -made dowel rod from sawn stock.<BR>
<BR>
Sharp shards and flakes from knapping musket flints are excellent for scrap=
ing and shaping the rough wood.  Sandstone can be used for --- guess wh=
at?<BR>
<BR>
Though kerosene is the modern substitute for coal oil which was available i=
n the east in small measure, the below is an old method.  See my postin=
g a couple of three Christmases back on the proper uses of linseed oil to av=
oid the problems of modern processing.  <BR>
<BR>
Ferrules can be well mounted with sealing wax along with the cross pinning.=
  Very similar to what used to be called spud cement which can be used =
similarly.<BR>
<BR>
Ramrods, shovel handles, axe handles, walking sticks, and war clubs all wil=
l benefit if you bury them in a large pile of horse manure for 6 months. &nb=
sp;Adds considerable flex to the finished work.  Be certain the wood is=
 well seasoned and ready for final sanding and finishing before you bury it.=
  Then finish it.<BR>
<BR>
John...<BR>
<BR>
At 08:11 AM 3/28/00 -0800, Bill wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>I have taken a piece of PVC, put a plug in one end and shoved a=
nywhere from<BR>
1 to a couple dozen ramrod blanks (straight grain dowels) in there, then<BR=
>
filled it with kerosene, put a plug on the top, and let them soak for as<BR=
>
long as three months, then removed them and let them dry. They still are no=
t<BR>
bullet proof, but somewhat improved. It depends on whether you have the tim=
e<BR>
and desire. You can purchase new ends (they don't cost that much) and make<=
BR>
up several ramrods at one time. That way, when one breaks (and they will)<B=
R>
you have a spare at hand.<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Roger Lahti <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></F=
ONT>><BR>
To: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT> <<F=
ONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT>><BR>
Date: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:22 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Sue,<BR>
><BR>
>I and many experienced ml shooters will council you to remove the<BR>
adjustable<BR>
>sight and replace it with a fixed open sight. Once it is adjusted to wh=
ere<BR>
>the gun shoots with it's best load, it need never be messed with again.=
 It<BR>
>will not move either and thus will not change the point of impact at an=
<BR>
>awkward moment.<BR>
><BR>
>The ferrules on the ram rod should have been "pinned" with &n=
bsp;brass or copper<BR>
>wire but were probably just glued on with something like epoxy. Very<BR=
>
careful<BR>
>heating of the metal over a candle  will usually loosen them regar=
dless of<BR>
>how they were glued. If they have been pinned then you will have to pun=
ch<BR>
>the old pin out to pull the ferrule off.<BR>
><BR>
>Once replaced on a new rod, a small hole should be drilled through ferr=
ule<BR>
>and rod and a pin of that size pushed through and peened into place alo=
ng<BR>
>with the new glue which can be epoxy or any water proof glue.<BR>
><BR>
>It is a good idea to pick very straight grain wood, preferably hickory =
as a<BR>
>ram rod material. It can be soaked in kerosene for a month and then sea=
led<BR>
>with linseed oil. This will make the rod stronger and more flexible and=
<BR>
less<BR>
>likely to break again. Straight grain is the most important though. Som=
e<BR>
>folks like metal rods or fiber glass rods, even synthetic rods but if y=
our<BR>
>husband is concerned with authenticity, wood is the only choice. Good l=
uck<BR>
>and feel free to ask questions. I remain....<BR>
><BR>
>YMOS<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>>Capt. Lahti<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0<BR>
<BR>
Kramer's Best Antique Improver<BR>
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<<BR>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<<BR>
<BR>
<<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.kramerize.com/</U></FONT> <<FONT=
 COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.kramerize.com/</U></FONT>> ><BR>
<BR>
mail to: <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT>> <=
BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:58:21 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun

> Ramrods, shovel handles, axe handles, walking sticks, and war clubs all will
>  benefit if you bury them in a large pile of horse manure for 6 months.
Adds
>  considerable flex to the finished work.  Be certain the wood is well
>  seasoned and ready for final sanding and finishing before you bury it.
Then
>  finish it.

John,
Have a friend who restores old clocks.  One of the things he does to match
old wood when necessary, it to smear the replacement wood with dog manure and
then bury it in the garden for several weeks.  It ages the new wood to match
the old.  I suspect that the highly acidic dog manure breaks down the wood
fibers.

Dave Kanger

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:32:15 -0700
From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: saddles/mecate

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF98A0.E2632180
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:

How far back does the "macate" rein date back?

The mecate can be used with both bosal and snaffle. The use of the bosal =
is claimed to be descended from the Moors who invaded Spain in the =
Middle Ages, but can definitely be traced to the grand horseman of =
California. Ms Victor quoted Meek as claiming the Nez Perce used a horse =
hair rein of sorts:=20

"For bridles they used horse-hair cords, attached around the animal's =
mouth."


And they also claim the camp keepers of the fur trade made horsehair =
ropes themselves:

....finds a piece of work imperfectly done, whether it be cleaning the =
firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin lodge, or washing a horse's =
back.....

What they used the ropes for I can only speculate. Horsehair does not =
slip in your grip and doesn't hold water as bad as some when wet. But as =
you might guess I am partial to the hackmore.

WY




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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<P>John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:</P>
<P>How far back does the "macate" rein date back?</P>
<P>The mecate can be used with both bosal and snaffle. The use of the =
bosal is=20
claimed to be descended from the Moors who invaded Spain in the Middle =
Ages, but=20
can definitely be traced to the grand horseman of California. Ms Victor =
quoted=20
Meek as claiming the Nez Perce used a horse hair rein of sorts: </P>
<P>"For bridles they used horse-hair cords, attached around the animal's =

mouth."</P><FONT face=3DArial>
<P></P></FONT>
<P>And they also claim the camp keepers of the fur trade made horsehair =
ropes=20
themselves:</P>
<P>....finds a piece of work imperfectly done, whether it be cleaning =
the=20
firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin lodge, or washing a horse's=20
back.....</P>
<P>What they used the ropes for I can only speculate. Horsehair does not =
slip in=20
your grip and doesn’t hold water as bad as some when wet. But as =
you might guess=20
I am partial to the hackmore.</P>
<P>WY</P>
<P> </P></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:36:19 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Nationals 2001

Hey Crazy,
I don't have your e-mail address in my file, at Bridger I talked to Allen
about a possible spot for next years camp. Please contact me off list and I
will tell you about it.
YMOS
Ole # 718

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:47:12 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles

In a message dated 3/29/00 6:28:51 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<<  Your post about the poles was quite timely for me, and I'm frustrated
that for some reason, I can't post to the list.  I get the messages fine, I
just can't reply.

 >>

Hallo Bobbie,

Hmmmm...I've had that problem in the past too. What you need to do is
"unsubscribe" from the list and then "re-subscribe" to the list. Don't know
what happens in cyber, but that should fix the problem. Also send an email
directly to Dean and let him know what's been going on.

<<<<I came across a lodgepole pine that had been recently blown
down in a wind.  It was quite straight and about the length that I will
need.  I wondered what the "contraindications", if any, would be to using
trees that I find blown down. >>>>

What you need to look for in a pole, besides being straight, is that the
diameter where you tie the poles together, (maybe 17' up for a 18' tipi)  be
around 1 3/4" to 2".... and you don't want the bases much more than 2 1/2" to
3". These tall "skinny" poles are usually found in dense stands.

Blow down poles work fine, have the advantage that you can use them right
away, (green trees need to be dried out for a month or more) but hard work
getting the bark off( don't think you could blow the bark off with the
pressure cleaner). The wood may already have started to turn gray with age,
so maybe not as pretty as the new poles. I know what you mean about cutting
new trees, (I live in the NW and have seen what the loggers can do) but offer
that lodgepole pine grow in such dense groves that "thinning" them out gives
the others "breathing" room...

If you don't have it already, get a copy of "The Indian Tipi" by Laubin
before you by your first lodge. It is THE book on tipi's.... Hope this helps
and if you have any more questions, let me know.

Ymos,
Steve



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:18:35 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: March 29, 2000 11:49 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles



> I know what you mean about cutting
>new trees, (I live in the NW and have seen what the loggers can do) ) but
offer
>that lodgepole pine grow in such dense groves that "thinning" them out
gives
>the others "breathing" room...

Hey, I resemble that remark! I would offer that all trees grow in a manner
that they thin themselves out over time. When you cut some tepee poles out
of a dense stand and give the remaining trees "breathing" room you are
managing the stand of trees wether you realize it or not. I am not saying
this in defense of those who would damage the environment through
indiscriminate harvest practices.

"I was alive in the forest
 I was cut by the cruel axe
 In life I was silent
 In death I sweetly sing"

(from an Elizabethen lute face)

northwoods




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:12:08 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles

In that regard, even if you pick up dead lodgepoles from off the ground, you
are "managing" to an extent - depriving the soil of the humus the dead trees
eventually turn into. For me, I sometimes have picked up dead poles,
sometimes cut them. I do not do this on a large scale, just enough for my
tipi and fencing needs. I don't feel guilty about this, I grew up in a state
where wood pulp was and is a major industry and trees replace themselves
within forty years. Here in the west that is not so true. Quakies, which are
being cut and used for wafer board, does a good job of fairly fast regrowth,
but the conifers take forever. Trees left standing beyond their maturity,
though, tend to rot in the center and become useless for lumber, while
shading out new growth. Nature's way, I guess, but then, so is mankind.
- -----Original Message-----
From: northwoods <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles


>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: March 29, 2000 11:49 AM
>Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles
>
>
>
>> I know what you mean about cutting
>>new trees, (I live in the NW and have seen what the loggers can do) ) but
>offer
>>that lodgepole pine grow in such dense groves that "thinning" them out
>gives
>>the others "breathing" room...
>
>Hey, I resemble that remark! I would offer that all trees grow in a manner
>that they thin themselves out over time. When you cut some tepee poles out
>of a dense stand and give the remaining trees "breathing" room you are
>managing the stand of trees wether you realize it or not. I am not saying
>this in defense of those who would damage the environment through
>indiscriminate harvest practices.
>
>"I was alive in the forest
> I was cut by the cruel axe
> In life I was silent
> In death I sweetly sing"
>
>(from an Elizabethen lute face)
>
>northwoods
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:22:39 -0800
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: saddles/mecate

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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WY,
Thanks for your response but your answer, though illuminating,  doesn't =
answer my question....."How far back can the "Macate" rein (system) be =
traced? =20
I know what it can be used for.  I know how it is used but I'm looking =
for the 'history' of it and it's origin.  I do know that horse (tail and =
mane) and buffalo hair were originally woven to create the 21" (+/-) =
rein.  It was (is)  used with a snaffle bit (typically)  and =
incorporates rein and lead when laced through "slobber straps" on the =
snaffle.  I have seen paintings in "Man Made Mobile" which suggest the =
Native American fabricated a similar item.  These appeared to be tied =
around the horses lower jaw resulting in a "rein" and "lead" which =
appeared to be secured by the rider.  I guess what I'm asking is.....is =
the rein (system) period correct.....in anyone's estimation?
I've found it VERY successful and solves a multitude of situations =
encountered in the field.  Basically....I like it!
John Funk
Rick Baird......I know you have 'years' on a critter...give me your =
input.......please...  jf
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 9:32 AM
  Subject: MtMan-List: saddles/mecate


  John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:

  How far back does the "macate" rein date back?

  The mecate can be used with both bosal and snaffle. The use of the =
bosal is claimed to be descended from the Moors who invaded Spain in the =
Middle Ages, but can definitely be traced to the grand horseman of =
California. Ms Victor quoted Meek as claiming the Nez Perce used a horse =
hair rein of sorts:=20

  "For bridles they used horse-hair cords, attached around the animal's =
mouth."


  And they also claim the camp keepers of the fur trade made horsehair =
ropes themselves:

  ....finds a piece of work imperfectly done, whether it be cleaning the =
firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin lodge, or washing a horse's =
back.....

  What they used the ropes for I can only speculate. Horsehair does not =
slip in your grip and doesn't hold water as bad as some when wet. But as =
you might guess I am partial to the hackmore.

  WY




- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF99A3.61EE7640
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>WY,</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your response but your answer, though illuminating,  =
doesn't=20
answer my question....."How far back can the "Macate" rein (system) be=20
traced?  </DIV>
<DIV>I know what it can be used for.  I know how it is used but I'm =
looking=20
for the 'history' of it and it's origin.  I do know that horse =
(tail and=20
mane) and buffalo hair were originally woven to create the 21" (+/-) =
rein. =20
It was (is)  used with a snaffle bit (typically)  and incorporates rein =
and lead=20
when laced through "slobber straps" on the snaffle.  I have seen =
paintings=20
in "Man Made Mobile" which suggest the Native American fabricated a =
similar=20
item.  These appeared to be tied around the horses lower jaw =
resulting in a=20
"rein" and "lead" which appeared to be secured by the rider.  I =
guess what=20
I'm asking is.....is the rein (system) period correct.....in anyone's=20
estimation?</DIV>
<DIV>I've found it VERY successful and solves a multitude of situations=20
encountered in the field.  Basically....I like it!</DIV>
<DIV>John Funk</DIV>
<DIV>Rick Baird......I know you have 'years' on a critter...give me your =

input.......please...  jf</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>Wynn &=20
  Gretchen Ormond</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 28, 2000 =
9:32=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: =
saddles/mecate</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P>John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:</P>
  <P>How far back does the "macate" rein date back?</P>
  <P>The mecate can be used with both bosal and snaffle. The use of the =
bosal is=20
  claimed to be descended from the Moors who invaded Spain in the Middle =
Ages,=20
  but can definitely be traced to the grand horseman of California. Ms =
Victor=20
  quoted Meek as claiming the Nez Perce used a horse hair rein of sorts: =
</P>
  <P>"For bridles they used horse-hair cords, attached around the =
animal's=20
  mouth."</P><FONT face=3DArial>
  <P></P></FONT>
  <P>And they also claim the camp keepers of the fur trade made =
horsehair ropes=20
  themselves:</P>
  <P>....finds a piece of work imperfectly done, whether it be cleaning =
the=20
  firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin lodge, or washing a horse's=20
  back.....</P>
  <P>What they used the ropes for I can only speculate. Horsehair does =
not slip=20
  in your grip and doesn’t hold water as bad as some when wet. But =
as you might=20
  guess I am partial to the hackmore.</P>
  <P>WY</P>
  <P> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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