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hist_text-digest        Sunday, March 19 2000        Volume 01 : Number 501



In this issue:

-áááááá MtMan-List: test of new signature
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ho the list!!
-áááááá MtMan-List: Dogs?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wanted Book
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Wanted Book
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
-áááááá MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
-áááááá MtMan-List: Ratcliff's Found Minerals
-áááááá MtMan-List: Salting Hides.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600
-áááááá MtMan-List: Ratcliffs Found Minerals
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ratcliff's Found Minerals
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Ratcliff's Found Minerals
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600
-áááááá MtMan-List: Rock pickin..
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rock pickin..
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: museums
-áááááá MtMan-List: Lost Brother
-áááááá [none]
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:50:17 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: MtMan-List: test of new signature

ertqrggkpktkrt

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:00:16 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.

Washtahay-
At 08:25 AM 3/17/00 PST, you wrote:
>I am interested in the idea of purchasing rawhide that is large enough to be
>of use in making a dress, and brain tanning it.  Has anyone bought hides
>like those described, and what is the process for tanning those hides.  Are
>they ready to brain, or do they require some more work???
    I've walked several students through this, its really not that much
different than tanning a fresh hide-but the only advantage I can see that
it offers is that it lets folks who can't hunt the hides they need stretch
their dollars.
    What I have the kids do is take the dry rawhide and scuff both sides with
a piece of 150 grit sandpaper until it has an evenly  "sueded" surface.
Put about 4 gallons of water in a plastic bucket, add two ounces of
muriatic acid, and soak the hide in it for about 48 hours.  Rinse the hide
in running water for an hour or so.
    From there, braintan per your favorite procedure.  I've even gone so far
as to braintan rawhide taken from dog chew toys.  It usually makes pretty
fair moc soles.
    As always, your mileage may vary.
LongWalker c. du B.


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Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:08:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ho the list!!

Hello Crazy,

Glad to see you're back.  Can't think of anyone that I enjoyed sharing camp
with as you last year at the National.  Just wish I could make it this year
but already know I can't.

That Spanish Barb mustang stud sounds interesting.  Maybe when he gets older
do you think that Bill might be interested in breeding him with my 5 year
old Kiger mustang mare?  She is really a good one.  Problem would be to get
them together with me being here in California, but bet they would have a
really nice foal.

Talk to you soon.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488




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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:02:32 -0600
From: "Matt  P" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Dogs?

Ho the List!
I've been lurking for awhile, with nothing to contribute, but I've been
wondering about something.  Did the frontiersmen and mountain men  have any
dogs with them?I know from my own experience that I can get a little crazy
without other people to talk with, but if I have my dog with me, I could go
for days without other people.  I wonder if the frontiersmen had any similar
experiences.
Matt in Texas
<[e-mail]>
                Moonwolf's Den
http://pages.ivillage.com/misc/txmoonwolf/


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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:40:59 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wanted Book

john funck do you have the right author for that book---there is one
written by shumway and what is the ISBN # for the book you are looking
for---brockway made a lot of target rifles and also there are 6 known
target pistols made by the same guy---They are a bit advanced for their
time---false muzzel and mule ear ignition---with clicker rear sight
- ---some of them are even bedded in pitch pine (the barrels)  real
interesting pieces the brockway guns---couple on display at smithsonian
many are of the underhammer design---most of brockway guns were smaller
caliber and shot slugs ---gain twist and all that nonsense---

    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:27:37 -0800
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wanted Book

HAWK.........
Yes. The book I'm looking for is as described.  I copied all the information
from a friends copy.  Made him promise he'd leave it to me in his will.  He
didn't see the humor in my asking when he thought he'd be 'checking out'.
John "Funk" (drop the 'c' please) ;-)
Thanks for your inquiry.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wanted Book


> john funck do you have the right author for that book---there is one
> written by shumway and what is the ISBN # for the book you are looking
> for---brockway made a lot of target rifles and also there are 6 known
> target pistols made by the same guy---They are a bit advanced for their
> time---false muzzel and mule ear ignition---with clicker rear sight
> ---some of them are even bedded in pitch pine (the barrels)  real
> interesting pieces the brockway guns---couple on display at smithsonian
> many are of the underhammer design---most of brockway guns were smaller
> caliber and shot slugs ---gain twist and all that nonsense---
>
>     "HAWK"
> Michael Pierce
> 854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
> Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
> e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
> site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
> Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
> Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:28:07 -0700
From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.

I have deer, elk cow and buffalo rawide, also green salted deer, elk,
and buffalo hides. Both will work for brain tanning

Joe

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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:05:38 -0800
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.

Joe,
I thought "salted" hides would not work for braining??  Am I wrong?
John Funk


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.


> I have deer, elk cow and buffalo rawide, also green salted deer, elk,
> and buffalo hides. Both will work for brain tanning
>
> Joe
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:58:20 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.

> Joe,
> I thought "salted" hides would not work for braining??  Am I wrong?
> John Funk

John,

Joe will probably back this up but one of my favorite "Brain Tanners" Mike
"Dirty Shirt" Rider, has said that salted hides are actually easier to work
with and in some strange way especially so if they have been salted for some
time. I recall him saying they were easier to dehair and grain. Hope that
helps. I remain........

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:58:32 -0800
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.

"Capt." &  Joe.........
If such be the case I stand forever informed and corrected.  I could have
sworn that during the course of some "brain tanning" discussion someone said
exactly the opposite.  I know "Shirt" well and would agree, he does the best
braining that I've come across.  I sure miss his ugly puss.
Thanks for the input.
John Funk

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Lahti <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.


>
>
>
> > Joe,
> > I thought "salted" hides would not work for braining??  Am I wrong?
> > John Funk
>
> John,
>
> Joe will probably back this up but one of my favorite "Brain Tanners" Mike
> "Dirty Shirt" Rider, has said that salted hides are actually easier to
work
> with and in some strange way especially so if they have been salted for
some
> time. I recall him saying they were easier to dehair and grain. Hope that
> helps. I remain........
>
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:12:11 -0700
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF9116.D8225560
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ho the list,
Today on a construction site I found a number of small (2"-5" diameter)  =
flat (1"-1 1/2" thick) stones, reddish brown in color...more red than =
brown that are lightweight for their size.  I haven't had the =
opportunity to determine the specific gravity, but I will next week.  =
These stones were found as nodules in layers of gray and tan shaley clay =
or in soft weathered limestone and are quite soft...they can be scraped =
with a fingernail.  When washed they erode slightly with a slightly =
"slimey" feel...like wet silty clay.  They can be carved easily with a =
pocket knife.   The cuttings stain the hands a ruddy color.  The stone =
looks like a pipestone (catlinite?) pipe I once had, but I have been led =
to believe that pipestone is found almost entirely in the Great Lakes =
region.  I'm stumped.
Anybody have an opinion?
Lanney Ratcliff

- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF9116.D8225560
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Ho the list,</DIV>
<DIV>Today on a construction site I found a number of small (2"-5"=20
diameter)  flat (1"-1 1/2" thick) stones, reddish brown in =
color...more red=20
than brown that are lightweight for their size.  I haven't had the=20
opportunity to determine the specific gravity, but I will next =
week.  These=20
stones were found as nodules in layers of gray and tan shaley clay or in =
soft=20
weathered limestone and are quite soft...they can be scraped with a =

fingernail.  When washed they erode slightly with a slightly =
"slimey"=20
feel...like wet silty clay.  They can be carved easily with a =
pocket=20
knife.   The cuttings stain the hands a ruddy color.  The =
stone=20
looks like a pipestone (catlinite?) pipe I once had, but I have been led =
to=20
believe that pipestone is found almost entirely in the Great Lakes =
region. =20
I'm stumped.</DIV>
<DIV>Anybody have an opinion?</DIV>
<DIV>Lanney Ratcliff</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF9116.D8225560--


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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:39:37 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.


> "Capt." &  Joe.........
> If such be the case I stand forever informed and corrected.  I could have
> sworn that during the course of some "brain tanning" discussion someone
said
> exactly the opposite.  I know "Shirt" well and would agree, he does the
best
> braining that I've come across.  I sure miss his ugly puss.
> Thanks for the input.

John

After that I sure hope I quoted him correctly. <G> I'd swear I heard him
make that comment to someone who had some hides but wasn't sure they would
be any good cause they had been salted. I remain.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:41:45 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Ratcliff's Found Minerals

Lanney, From the limited description you provided, Barite, Bauxite, Calcite,
Cinnabar, Gypsum, Realgar and a few others are all possibilities.  Any
additional info such as Specific Gravity, Hardness, Streak Color, Refraction,
Cleavage and Odor (when heated) will help to differentiate between the
minerals.  I have many gemological / mineralogical ref's to use, and in
looking at them it would seem that Streak Color in these softer materials is
an important item.  Let me know and I'll see what I can dig up.   Barney Fife

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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:46:49 PST
From: "Chance Tiffie" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Salting Hides.

At Braintan.com they describe proper methods for storing or preserving hides
for future use, and salting is one of the methods described.  Must be OK.
Cliff
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:10:15 -0500
From: "D Miles" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600

LANNEY WROTE:
Anybody have an opinion?

>>Yep... Get a real job..<G>
Love
D

(and it does sound like the catlinite I have here)


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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:18:01 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Ratcliffs Found Minerals

oh, and i forgot the most obvious <GGG>  CATLINITE
Catlinite is chemically a clay (silicate of alumina) colored brick red with
peroxide of iron. In a museum article it was said that Indians preferred this
more pure clay over other red stone found else where

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:25:24 -0600
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ratcliff's Found Minerals

There are some dark brown to black fine streaks.
L
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 8:41 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Ratcliff's Found Minerals


> Lanney, From the limited description you provided, Barite, Bauxite, =
Calcite,=20
> Cinnabar, Gypsum, Realgar and a few others are all possibilities.  Any =

> additional info such as Specific Gravity, Hardness, Streak Color, =
Refraction,=20
> Cleavage and Odor (when heated) will help to differentiate between the =

> minerals.  I have many gemological / mineralogical ref's to use, and =
in=20
> looking at them it would seem that Streak Color in these softer =
materials is=20
> an important item.  Let me know and I'll see what I can dig up.   =
Barney Fife
>=20
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:16:32 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ratcliff's Found Minerals

In a message dated 3/18/00 7:21:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

> There are some dark brown to black fine streaks.

Lanney, If the fine lines you mention are in the mineral, it sounds more like
Catlinite. According to legend: Another phenomena that shows itself is what
the crafts-people call a heart-line. It is a hair-thick line that is straight
and a different color, (usually black,) to the stone. It looks like a crack
but it isn't. If one of these is found in the stone, it is thought to be
highly lucky for both the crafts-person and the person who ends up with the
item it is in.          Barney

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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:11:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.

John,

I would agree with the Capt. and Joe; have also tanned hides that had been
salted for quite a while and they came out very good.  I soaked them well
and got all the salt out; didn't have any problems at all.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
_______________________________________________________________________________

At 01:05 PM 03/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Joe,
>I thought "salted" hides would not work for braining??  Am I wrong?
>John Funk
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 12:28 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
>
>
>> I have deer, elk cow and buffalo rawide, also green salted deer, elk,
>> and buffalo hides. Both will work for brain tanning
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 07:19:25 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600

Lanney, It's difficult to say what it is that you picked up. You and I must
have the same genes somewhere though, because I am a notorious picker upper
of stones and what not also. They usually end up filling icecream pails or
coffee cans, and then they reside in my shop or somewhere for eternity. I
should mention that I have picked up lots of neat things in some very odd
places including construction sites everything from indian artifacts, fur
trade items, old coins, I even found a nice pipestone pipe once.
Nodules found in soft shaley clay and weathered limestone doesn't seem to
match the conditions pipestone is usually found under, from my
understanding. I can fax you some info about the catlanite quarries in
Minnesota which you were referring to earlier. This would explain the
conditions, composition , and other information relating to pipestone found
in that locality. That is where it occurs in the largest amounts and has
been extensively mined by aboriginals. Did you know it was named after
George Catlin?

northwoods


- -----Original Message-----
From: Ratcliff <[e-mail]>
To: History List <[e-mail]>
Date: March 18, 2000 8:12 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600


Ho the list,
Today on a construction site I found a number of small (2"-5" diameter)
flat (1"-1 1/2" thick) stones, reddish brown in color...more red than brown
that are lightweight for their size.  I haven't had the opportunity to
determine the specific gravity, but I will next week.  These stones were
found as nodules in layers of gray and tan shaley clay or in soft weathered
limestone and are quite soft...they can be scraped with a fingernail.  When
washed they erode slightly with a slightly "slimey" feel...like wet silty
clay.  They can be carved easily with a pocket knife.   The cuttings stain
the hands a ruddy color.  The stone looks like a pipestone (catlinite?) pipe
I once had, but I have been led to believe that pipestone is found almost
entirely in the Great Lakes region.  I'm stumped.
Anybody have an opinion?
Lanney Ratcliff



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 05:37:20 -0800
From: "Poorboy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Rock pickin..

Klahowya Lanney,
Where are you located at, or more specifically the construction site?  This
sounds a lot like scoria rock like I grew up within MT.  It is plate like in
structure, is a iron oxide red in color, has many veins or darker red,
brown, and black in it.  When it gets wet it is extremely slippery.  It
flakes and crumbles easily, and usually holds nice fossil imprints.  I am
sure scoria is not the technical name, but someone else on the list can help
us with that.
YMOS
PoorBoy


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 07:51:50 -0600
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rock pickin..

That matches the discription of my rocks except that I have found =
relatively few veins.  The site is in Roanoak, Texas, a northern suburb =
of Ft Worth.  Below two or three feet of clay and sandy clay much of the =
site consists of weathered limestone....basically crumbled, fairly soft =
limestone fragments imbedded in limestone that has deteriorated into a =
ten clay-like matrix.  This is where I found the red stones.
Thanks
Lanney
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Poorboy <[e-mail]>
To: AMM mailing list <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 7:37 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Rock pickin..


> Klahowya Lanney,
> Where are you located at, or more specifically the construction site?  =
This
> sounds a lot like scoria rock like I grew up within MT.  It is plate =
like in
> structure, is a iron oxide red in color, has many veins or darker red,
> brown, and black in it.  When it gets wet it is extremely slippery.  =
It
> flakes and crumbles easily, and usually holds nice fossil imprints.  I =
am
> sure scoria is not the technical name, but someone else on the list =
can help
> us with that.
> YMOS
> PoorBoy
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:14:33 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: museums

bearclaw
believe Lee has checked out of the net---someone on the list might
confirm this but i believe he passed about a year ago---his wife also
works there and is a expert on beads--"old trade Beads"---lee was a hell
of a guy and usto write in muzzle blast and give info on gunmakers---he
has one of the best databases I know of on makers and all.

he assisted me several times---

    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

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Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 07:51:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Lost Brother

While attending briefly the Bridger Birthday Doin's at
Ft. Bridger I spoke with Joe Funk from Jackson about
an old brother "Pawnee" Buckley, somewhere in Mt.
Does anyone know for sure his location or how to get
in touch with him? Thanks in advance for any help,
YMOS, Dog, Gabe's Hole Brig.

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Date:
From:
Subject: [none]



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Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:36:05 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ratcliff <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: March 19, 2000 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600


>I wondered if the name came from Catlin.  I also wondered about the stone
being >pipestone since I have seen references to pipestone being quarried
not mined..

Sorry I meant to say quarried, not mined. There are very few instances of
aboriginal people mining anything.
.
> Maybe it will harden in time.

I know that pipestone is soft after first being recovered. It is much easier
to work when "fresh", as are most other stone materials that aboriginals
made implements with. They even employed methods of heat treating to many
types of stones to make them more workable or to improve the way they
fracture although I don't know if they did this with catlanite.

> I was concerned that if it were carved into a pipe and fired up the user
might be breathing in God knows what kind of fumes.

Thats seems to me to be a reasonable concern. Stone in general seems to be a
fairly inert substance. If you could positively identify it as such, which
wouldn't be to difficult if you could show it to someone who is knowledgable
on the subject, I think you would be good to go.

> I wonder if it related to vermillion or cinnibar?  Isn't cinnibar accually
mercury ore? I >remember from chemistry class back in the sixties that the
teacher had a jar of oxide of >mercury powder that when heated would produce
little globules of liquid mercury...which >we all played with, by the way.

I had the similiar experiences when I was younger. Last fall a 7th grader in
a local school got a hold of a tiny (like1oz.)  amount of mercury and took
it out of the class room. Seems some was spilled in different places around
school, and when the authorities found out about it, they closed the school
down and got a HAZMAT team in and after 2 weeks of no classes and $300,000
later they had it cleaned up.

> That powder was very heavy and these stones are noticibly light for their
size.  It's a dang >puzzlement, that's what it is.  Please fax me the
information at 817 268 8602...be sure to >include a cover sheet with my name
on it or the secretary will give it to one of the >engineers.

Pipestone isn't the really that light for it's size. That maybe another
indication that what you found is not catlanite. If you want a pipestone
pipe, or a piece of pipestone to carve one out of I may be able to find one
for ya. I'll get the info out to you tommorrow when I get into the office.

northwoods






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Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:27:39 -0800
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.

Thanks, Jerry......
That will simplify matters for me in the future.  Can't imagine where I got
that notion.
John Funk


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.


> John,
>
> I would agree with the Capt. and Joe; have also tanned hides that had been
> salted for quite a while and they came out very good.  I soaked them well
> and got all the salt out; didn't have any problems at all.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> At 01:05 PM 03/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >Joe,
> >I thought "salted" hides would not work for braining??  Am I wrong?
> >John Funk
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 12:28 PM
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rawhides to Brain Tan.
> >
> >
> >> I have deer, elk cow and buffalo rawide, also green salted deer, elk,
> >> and buffalo hides. Both will work for brain tanning
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> ----------------------
> >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:37:13 -0600
From: "Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600

The weight was what caused me to doubt that it is pipestone.  If I look =
around some I bet that I can find the pipe that was a gift from my AMM =
sponsor, James Craker.  Looks like a little tomahawk.  Maybe I will =
carve something and let it dry for a time and see what happens.  Maybe =
an amulet or talisman instead of a pipe.  No fumes from a thing like =
that.  Thanks in advance for the faxed info.
Lanney

- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: northwoods <[e-mail]>=20
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600


>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ratcliff <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Date: March 19, 2000 7:41 AM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:16:29 -0600
>=20
>=20
> >I wondered if the name came from Catlin.  I also wondered about the =
stone
> being >pipestone since I have seen references to pipestone being =
quarried
> not mined..
>=20
> Sorry I meant to say quarried, not mined. There are very few instances =
of
> aboriginal people mining anything.
> .
> > Maybe it will harden in time.
>=20
> I know that pipestone is soft after first being recovered. It is much =
easier
> to work when "fresh", as are most other stone materials that =
aboriginals
> made implements with. They even employed methods of heat treating to =
many
> types of stones to make them more workable or to improve the way they
> fracture although I don't know if they did this with catlanite.
>=20
> > I was concerned that if it were carved into a pipe and fired up the =
user
> might be breathing in God knows what kind of fumes.
>=20
> Thats seems to me to be a reasonable concern. Stone in general seems =
to be a
> fairly inert substance. If you could positively identify it as such, =
which
> wouldn't be to difficult if you could show it to someone who is =
knowledgable
> on the subject, I think you would be good to go.
>=20
> > I wonder if it related to vermillion or cinnibar?  Isn't cinnibar =
accually
> mercury ore? I >remember from chemistry class back in the sixties that =
the
> teacher had a jar of oxide of >mercury powder that when heated would =
produce
> little globules of liquid mercury...which >we all played with, by the =
way.
>=20
> I had the similiar experiences when I was younger. Last fall a 7th =
grader in
> a local school got a hold of a tiny (like1oz.)  amount of mercury and =
took
> it out of the class room. Seems some was spilled in different places =
around
> school, and when the authorities found out about it, they closed the =
school
> down and got a HAZMAT team in and after 2 weeks of no classes and =
$300,000
> later they had it cleaned up.
>=20
> > That powder was very heavy and these stones are noticibly light for =
their
> size.  It's a dang >puzzlement, that's what it is.  Please fax me the
> information at 817 268 8602...be sure to >include a cover sheet with =
my name
> on it or the secretary will give it to one of the >engineers.
>=20
> Pipestone isn't the really that light for it's size. That maybe =
another
> indication that what you found is not catlanite. If you want a =
pipestone
> pipe, or a piece of pipestone to carve one out of I may be able to =
find one
> for ya. I'll get the info out to you tommorrow when I get into the =
office.
>=20
> northwoods
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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