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hist_text-digest       Wednesday, March 1 2000       Volume 01 : Number 483



In this issue:

-áááááá MtMan-List: Common misconception
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Mountain Rifles
-áááááá MtMan-List: Bent's Fort dutch ovens (a curator's perspective)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mountain Rifles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mountain Rifles
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts
-áááááá MtMan-List: in need of fur prices, kids school  project
-áááááá Fw: MtMan-List: Common misconception
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:Turkey Calls
-áááááá MtMan-List: Period correctness questions
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:Turkey Calls

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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:11:06 -0600
From: "Glenn Darilek" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Common misconception

I think most things that are accepted at most rendezvous are not too
authentic or were very uncommon:

- -  fur hats (this list has already addressed this some);
- -  bushy beards (Here we go again. Note the adjective 'bushy' this time.)
- -  Any kind of tent except wedge, teepee, and maybe wall tents (this has
been discussed
    some before);
- -  Throwing knives;
- -  Eye glasses
- -  Canteens
- -  Water kegs
- -  wooden tables,
- -  chairs,
- -  granite ware,
- -  wooden boxes,
- -  iron crossbar fire irons and gadgets associated with them,
- -  grills
- -  wooden bowls?
- -  short round ball starters (I have always wondered about these)
- -  lanterns
- -  seed beads

And this list does not get into almost anything else that is accepted if it
is covered up.

Glenn Darilek
Iron Burner

From: [e-mail]
>What I'd like to see is a list, or several lists, from different sources,
about some of the common
> misconceptions of what was worn, used, etc., in the pre-1840 time
period...i.e. "granite ware",
> handle's on tin cups, Levi's, etc. In other words, what "NOT" to bring to
a rendezvous...



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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1980 11:26:41 -0800
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?

Recent posts have finally shed some real light on the subject, after all
the heat. So to recap, our documentation on Dutch ovens is:

Excavated: 1 (Bent's Fort)
Mentioned in journal: 1 (L&C)
Hypothetical (i.e. documented as used in nearby place or time, but not
directly tied to fur trade): 2

Please let me know if there have been posts (or pots!) I've missed.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1980 11:27:02 -0800
From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception

I have good documentation for both flour, and blue willow ware in the
Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821. If you want more details, just ask. Oats
were about as common as flour, by the way, and they're a traditional
ingredient in Scottish bannock. I've never seen cornmeal. Swords are
surprisingly common--I've got about a half-dozen documented, throughout
the period.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred

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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:11:10 -0800
From: "Poorboy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception

Klahowya Angela,
Yes, I would be very interested in further information in each of the topics
you mentioned.  Please share with the rest of us.
Klahowya,
PoorBoy



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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:06:01 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?

Angela,

How about Miller's sketch/painting.... still looks like one to me.

Ymos.
Steve

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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:08:46 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception

In a message dated 3/1/00 10:05:47 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I think most things that are accepted at most rendezvous are not too

authentic or were very uncommon:

 >>

I'd like to hear more about the eye glasses and wooden boxes.....anyone?
Ymos,
Steve

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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:20:47 PST
From: "jerry strobel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Mountain Rifles

I finally dug up out of my cache, my book of buckskinning I, Charles
Hanson's The Hawken Rifle; its place in history, and my back issues of
Muzzleloader magazine. I have more questions then answers again. 1)Even
though there were many rifles on the borderlands during the 1810-1835 era
such as Lancasters, Southern-style rifles, and trade guns from J. Henry,
Derringer, Leman. What would Jack Garner's Tennessee Mountain Rifle
aproxsimilate? 2) Is there anyone replicating J. Henry's Lancaster
(American) pattern rifle of the 1820s? 3)Is there anyone replicating
Deringer's lancaster styled trade rifle of the 1820s? 4)Has anyone heard of
The Powder Keg Rifle Works in Twin Falls, Idaho? they are shown to be
offering on their web page a 1815 S. Hawken which seems to replicate the
pre-1825 rifle fig. 2a on page 9 of Hanson's book on Hawkens. I don't know
if their site is still current but that could be a Hawken that showed up at
the first of Ashley's rendezvous. All replies welcome to my inquiries.
Thanks for pointin' the sign out to this pilgrim. Y.M.O.S. Jerry "Jake"
Strobel.
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 14:59:10 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Bent's Fort dutch ovens (a curator's perspective)

I am familiar with some of the archeological and historical work done by
the National Park Service folks at Bent's, and I've seen the cast iron
pieces in their storage.   A friend of mine is the Curator at Bent's Old
Fort.  I called her two days ago and our hour-long conversation revealed
some interesting info.  Below I'll explain what I learned.

First, a little background.  For those of you who are familiar with all
this, forgive me.

Historical archaeology uses Material Culture (the study of historical
artifacts within the context of their historical time and place) to help
identify the function and time period of artifacts based on comparative
analysis and primary source documentation.  The term material culture is
also used as a collective noun to describe one or several historical
artifacts, as in "the pot pieces are examples of Bent's Old Fort material
culture."

Archeology is what we in the museum profession call a comparative science.
That means the items recovered from a site can be identified by comparing
them to other associated items known to be from the same period or if the
items are recovered from the same subsurface layer.  Archeological sites
are excavated in a system of layers, where each succeeding layer
corresponds to a different period of time. Wells also are excavated in
layers.  For example, when buildings at the Mormon settlement of Nauvoo, IL
were excavated, historians and archeologists were able to determine the age
of several artifacts based on their proximity to other things known to be
from the Mormon period, and conclude, through other primary documentary
evidence (letters, receipts, household inventories) that the items were
indeed dumped into the well during the Mormon evacuation of Nauvoo.  As
people packed to leave, a lot of things got thrown down the wells.

Oftentimes, archeologists find items clustered with other items that are
positively identified as used during a certain period (again usually at a
particular subsurface level.) that help corroberate evidence that the items
are from a particular period, or even identified with a particular person.

The report, by the way, was written by NPS archeologist Jackson "Smokey"
Moore, who is now retired and living in Georgia.  Moore conducted the field
investigation and excavation of 1962-66.

Now, a few things we do know.  The well was only used during the BSV
period.  In other words, no one used the well to draw water after 1849.  It
was backfilled, probably by Bent before he abandoned the place.  Why?  He
was violently opposed to handing it over to the Army, and he wanted to make
it as unusuable as possible, which is also why he destroyed much of the
fort.  The well was later sealed with a cap of earth and rock (as described
in the report as an inverted bell).  It is believed that the capping
occurred during the stagecoach period (after 1860), probably construction
debris from rebuilding of the fort as a stage stop.  Furthermore, there is
an area of scorched earth at (or just below) the bottom of the cap,
suggesting that early in the stage coach period some debris (scorched
adobe?) from the ca. 1849 fire was dumped into the well on top of the BSV
backfill but bewfore the cap debris was dumped in.  Anyway, to continue,
there were at least 22 layers of strata in the well backfill below the
rocky cap.  There were pieces of porcelain found within layer 22, which is
a BSV layer in the well backfill, and they are positively from BSV.  The
dutch oven fragments (and we know they were dutch ovens from the
configurations and descriptions in the report) found on the site were found
at subsurface levels within the well.  The question is whether they were
found above the 1860 cap or below.

BTW, the BSV company ledgers were never found.  The only primary
documentation scholars have are ledgers of companies BSV dealt with, such
as Chouteau and Pratte, etc.  BSV ledgers would solve a lot of mysteries,
but no one has ever located them.

Meanwhile, back at the well, which is a key to the mystery, the NPS curator
is planning to commission a study all of the field notes and correlate
precisely what was found where.  If the dutch oven fragments were found
below the rocky cap, placing them within the BSV period of occupation, the
logical conclusion would be that dutch oven fragments (therefore dutch
ovens) are consistent with the Fur Trade era (which as we all know,
extended beyond 1840, but that's a different lecture).

Another interesting tidbit of information:  The only existing remnant of
the fort structure in public view is the flagstone floor directly in front
of the hearth in the kitchen.  Those stones have never been moved since
they were laid in 1833, (they were uncovered during the 1963-66 excavation)
and they still serve their original purpose.  So next time you see the
kitchen think of Charlotte Green, the fort's African-American cook,
standing over those very stones preparing a delicious beavertail stew (a
fort favorite).

Buena Suerte
HBC

****************************************
Henry B. Crawford    Box 43191
Curator of History    Museum of Texas Tech University
[e-mail]    Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
806/742-2442     FAX [phone]
              Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because It's There  ******



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 14:48:52 -0700
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mountain Rifles

Jerry,
    Bob Lienemann [phone] makes a very good J. Henry. I have at least
one friend who use a Henry (he converted it to percussion) and works/ looks
great. very authenic.
                                                                        mike.

jerry strobel wrote:

> I finally dug up out of my cache, my book of buckskinning I, Charles
> Hanson's The Hawken Rifle; its place in history, and my back issues of
> Muzzleloader magazine. I have more questions then answers again. 1)Even
> though there were many rifles on the borderlands during the 1810-1835 era
> such as Lancasters, Southern-style rifles, and trade guns from J. Henry,
> Derringer, Leman. What would Jack Garner's Tennessee Mountain Rifle
> aproxsimilate? 2) Is there anyone replicating J. Henry's Lancaster
> (American) pattern rifle of the 1820s? 3)Is there anyone replicating
> Deringer's lancaster styled trade rifle of the 1820s? 4)Has anyone heard of
> The Powder Keg Rifle Works in Twin Falls, Idaho? they are shown to be
> offering on their web page a 1815 S. Hawken which seems to replicate the
> pre-1825 rifle fig. 2a on page 9 of Hanson's book on Hawkens. I don't know
> if their site is still current but that could be a Hawken that showed up at
> the first of Ashley's rendezvous. All replies welcome to my inquiries.
> Thanks for pointin' the sign out to this pilgrim. Y.M.O.S. Jerry "Jake"
> Strobel.
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 16:55:38 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mountain Rifles

If my mind isn't shot, Bob is the one that built Mrs. Jager....Right Buck??
D

"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
          DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
  Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
   http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
  "Knowing how is just the beginning"

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mountain Rifles


> Jerry,
>     Bob Lienemann [phone] makes a very good J. Henry. I have at
least
> one friend who use a Henry (he converted it to percussion) and works/
looks
> great. very authenic.
>
mike.
>



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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:38:19 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?

Hello in the camp
 First off I did not say Flour was not available. I said it was not THAT
available. For the average trapper only once a year at rendezvous and then at
mountain prices or at a forts and still at mountain prices. Lets look at what
the trappers had to say in there journals about bread and flour. In Journal
of a Trapper page 39 Osborne Russell writes. They killed plenty of Bulls but
they were so poor that their meat was perfectly blue yet this was their only
article of food as bread or vegetables were out of the question in the Rocky
Mountains except a few kinds of roots of spontaneous growth which the Indians
dig and prepare for food.
   The Rocky Mountain Journals of William Marshall Anderson page 265 after
the rendezvous of 1839 Bridger set out for the states with the returning
caravan, his first visit home in seventeen years. (During all this time, as
he later commented, he had not once tasted bread.) William Marshall Anderson
writes in his diary May 24, 1834, ( page 100) No bread, and no more till my
return to civilization. This entry was made on the return trip he was
traveling with Wyeth and Sublette. Sublette was on his way to build Fort
William.
   Forty Years a Fur Trader on the Upper Missouri (the personal narrative of
Charles Larpenteur) page 22 on there way to the Green River he makes this
statement. My comrades had told me that we should now get a sickness called
by them le mal de vach; it is a dysentery caused by eating too much fat meat
alone, and some are known to have died of it. (it appears they had no bread)
page 28-29 Mr. Campbell sent for me one morning. On entering his tent I was
presented with a good cup of coffee and a large sized biscuit; this was a
great treat, for I believe that it was the first coffee I drunk since I left
Lexington. page 43 In the evening a great feast was given us by Mr. Campbell.
It consisted of half a pint of Flour to each man, one cup of coffee, one of
sugar, and one of molasses, to four men. Out of this a  becoming feast was
made, consisting of thick pancakes, the batter containing no other ingredient
than pure Missouri water, greased with buffalo tallow; but as I had nothing
of the kind for upward of six months, I thought I had never tasted anything
so good in my life. page 51 He is working as a clerk for the American Fur
Company at Fort William when  he states I had saved over$200, thanks to not
indulging too much in pancake parties. Coffee being $1 a pint, sugar $1, and
Flour 25 cents, many of my poor comrades came out in debt.
There was no flour brought out to the rendezvous in 1825. At the 1826
rendezvous this is a partial price list of what things sold for
Gunpowder-$1.50 per pound, Lead-$1.00 per LB, Shot-$1.25 per LB, Flour-$1.00
per LB, Sugar-$1.00 per LB coffee-$1.25 per lb.
So a trapper is going to pack around a dutch oven for this. What ever makes
your stick float I guess.              See ya on the trail
                                                   Crazy Cyot

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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:54:21 GMT
From: "Bill Jackson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts

Mr. Cunningham.
It was good to finaly see a picture of a face on this list. I saw a article
about you in the March issue of Muzzleblasts.
MadJack


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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:14:14 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts

Well, thank you! I haven't seen it. Shall have to get on them about where my
copy is. Any idea who wrote the article? I know nothing about it.
Thanks again,
Bill C
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Jackson <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 3:56 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts


>
>Mr. Cunningham.
>It was good to finaly see a picture of a face on this list. I saw a article
>about you in the March issue of Muzzleblasts.
>MadJack
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
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>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 00:15:30 GMT
From: "Bill Jackson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts

Yes, Susan Jennys
Concerns Book Review: Lighting Grandma's Fire
MadJack


>From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts
>Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:14:14 -0800
>
>Well, thank you! I haven't seen it. Shall have to get on them about where
>my
>copy is. Any idea who wrote the article? I know nothing about it.
>Thanks again,
>Bill C
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Jackson <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 3:56 PM
>Subject: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts
>
>
> >
> >Mr. Cunningham.
> >It was good to finaly see a picture of a face on this list. I saw a
>article
> >about you in the March issue of Muzzleblasts.
> >MadJack
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >----------------------
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>
>
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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 16:45:12 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?

Steve,

Are you referring to the sketch that was posted a few days back? To my eye,
that is a cast iron pot or cauldron or what ever but not a modern Dutch
Oven. I don't think there is any argument that such rounded sided cast iron
pots were used to some small degree but what is questioned is whether the
modern, straight sided, shallow, flat bottomed, coals holding rimmed lidded,
cast iron "Dutch Oven" we see today was used.

For my money, just because an article of yesteryear was referred to as a
"Dutch Oven" is not proof that what we call a "DC" today is the same animal.
Just my thoughts on this interesting but sofar inconclusive debate. I
remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?


> Angela,
>
> How about Miller's sketch/painting.... still looks like one to me.
>
> Ymos.
> Steve
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 16:54:46 -0800
From: "Roger Lahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception

Steve,

I'm not sure why the eye glasses were included in the list. I would imagine
that not too many young men that went to the mountains needed glasses but
they surely were available. More importantly, in this age that is one thing
that I for one need to enjoy the experience and though I try to come up with
acceptable styles of frames, mine and other's eye wear is not something I
think anyone has a gripe about.

It would seem that most goods going to the mountains would have been packed
in barrels or packs but whether or not wooden boxes actually went, they are
an item that are accepted in most venues. There has to be some way of
hauling all the stuff that is taken to modern Rendezvous that really isn't
appropriate. They surely were used in boat travel more likely in the form of
trunks or chests, but probably not used by every day trappers. Again, just
my thoughts. I remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception


>
> In a message dated 3/1/00 10:05:47 AM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I think most things that are accepted at most rendezvous are not too
>
> authentic or were very uncommon:
>
>  >>
>
> I'd like to hear more about the eye glasses and wooden boxes.....anyone?
> Ymos,
> Steve
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:55:40 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?

WAshtathy-
At 09:57 AM 3/1/00 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> Right now, I've waded through almost fifty.  Found out all kinds of neat
>>stuff that will further document my outfit.   BUT I AIN'T FOUND NO FLAT
>>BOTTOMED, THREE-LEGGED, CAST IRON DUTCH OVEN!!!!  Ahem, sorry about
>>that...
>
>Apparently your not looking in the rite places. A good start would be the
>book I quoted from.
    What, I should look in a church?
    I've had a copy of the book on order since this thread started, but wasn't
going to recommend it until I had seen it.  If the remainder of the book is
no more accurate than what you paraphrased, I think I am likely to be
disappointed.  Despite folklore to the contrary, Darby did not introduce
the casting technique he patented-then as now it was who you know, not what
you know.
LongWalker c. du B.



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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:57:07 -0600
From: Jim Colburn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception

Washtahay-
At 12:11 PM 3/1/00 -0600, you wrote:
>I think most things that are accepted at most rendezvous are not too
>authentic or were very uncommon:
>-  Canteens
>-  Water kegs
    There are a number of references to canteens being sold to both natives
and whites.  Also, there was a pretty fair demand for powder
kegs-especially the small ones-for use as canteens.

>-  granite ware,
    Don't know if it ever made it to rendezvous, but pattern pieces exist from
when the French let m8ilitary contracts during the Napoleonic era.

>-  wooden boxes,
    `Trunks were a common trade item, both as trunk-like "nesting boxes" and
as a secondary usage of some shipping containers (one example being the tea
caddy).

>-  seed beads
    Define "seed beads"-by size-and most likely some have been recovered
somewhere within any half-century.
LongWalker c. du B.



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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 19:04:18 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts

Thank you, MadJack.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Jackson <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts


>Yes, Susan Jennys
>Concerns Book Review: Lighting Grandma's Fire
>MadJack
>
>
>>From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>>To: <[e-mail]>
>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts
>>Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:14:14 -0800
>>
>>Well, thank you! I haven't seen it. Shall have to get on them about where
>>my
>>copy is. Any idea who wrote the article? I know nothing about it.
>>Thanks again,
>>Bill C
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Bill Jackson <[e-mail]>
>>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>>Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 3:56 PM
>>Subject: MtMan-List: Muzzleblasts
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Mr. Cunningham.
>> >It was good to finaly see a picture of a face on this list. I saw a
>>article
>> >about you in the March issue of Muzzleblasts.
>> >MadJack
>> >
>> >
>> >______________________________________________________
>> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>> >
>> >
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>>
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>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:52:57 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: in need of fur prices, kids school  project

 Hello list,
             In need of help.   Wife signed me up at my kid's school for
living
History day (Missouri).   Need to know the prices for beaver and other furs
from 1800-1840 when sold at Western Rendezvous compared to prices
received in St. Louis.    Would like prices to compare between both places.

Thank you.

rick
[e-mail]

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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 18:46:02 -0800
From: "Poorboy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Common misconception

> There are a number of references to canteens being sold to both natives
>and whites.  Also, there was a pretty fair demand for powder
>kegs-especially the small ones-for use as canteens.

As I have spent a considerable amount of time over the last few weeks ready
the archives from this site ( very informative, and educational) I am not
exactly sure if this information is from a current thread or an archived
one.  My question... there has been some discussion that there was a decided
lack of need for canteens during the RMFT as natural sources were clean and
abundant.  In cases where it was known that this would not be the case
 like crossing the desert, animal bladders and skins are specifically
mentioned.  As it is also a given that canteens are necessary for the modern
jaunters and reenactors I would be most interested in any supporting
documentation to support the above quoted statement.  Thank you in advance
for your time and consideration.  I am also interested in further
information on the boxes/trunks issue.
Klahowya PoorBoy
[e-mail]



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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 21:34:55 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Turkey Calls

call shipped today---
hawk---

On Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:55:21 EST [e-mail] writes:
>
> In a message dated 2/18/00 8:49:18 AM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> <<    "HAWK"
> Michael Pierce
> 854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
>
> P >>
>
> Hey Hawk....you got any of them ole Turkey Calls around that ya
> make? I never
> did get the one you were gonna send a couple years back... and I'd
> be glad to
> pay ya what you think is fair.
> Ymos,
> Steve Cushing
> 22324 NE Finn Hill Rd
> Brush Prairie, WA 98606
>
>
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    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.             (Home of "Old Grizz"  products)    (C)
Palm Harbor Florida     34684        Phone:    [phone]
e-mail:   [e-mail]  web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 19:04:43 -0800
From: "Poorboy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Period correctness questions

As I explained in a previous post I have spent considerable time and am
still researching all of the archived material from this list, however I
have several questions that I have been unable to answer as of yet.  If I
have overlooked previously posted information on these topics please excuse
my clumsiness.
1.  A recent posting indicated that fur hats were probably not correct for
pre-1840 RMFT rendezvous.  And a respondent indicated that this had been a
topic of discussion before.  I have been unable to locate that discussion.
It has always been my understanding having been brought up by an AMM member
that beaver fur was money and would only be used for something else in an
emergency.  However, since we accept that the mountaineers adopted Indian
dress (whether of need or desire is another issue)  and Indians used the
natural furs available for head coverings, clothing, household utensils etc.
Isn't it a little difficult to make the statement that the Rocky Mountain
trappers and traders did not utilize fur head coverings.....
2.  Eye glasses were definitely available in the settlements, and although I
will accept they may not have been common in the mountains, it is a reach to
assume that no one wore a pair west, nor took a spare pair or two, and would
have been so clumsy as to have lost or destroyed all of them.  I will admit
that a person needing glasses who either could not get them, or having lost
possession of them would soon become victim to either enemies of animals due
to lack of accuracy in shooting or not seeing there enemies approach.  I
also believe that a person of only slight vision problems would attach
himself to a group so as to compensate for this inadequacy.
3.  As there is a large contingent within the ranks that support the
southwest influence within the RMFT I ask the following question.  It was
common practice to smoke cigarettes rolled in corn husks in the southwest.
Can anyone provide me with information concerning the preparation and use of
the husk material, ie.. how to keep it rolled up once you have successfully
rolled a cigarette.  size of cigarettes, and appropriateness to the RMFT
era.
Thank you in advance for you time and knowledge.  I could not read in a
lifetime enough books to compile the gathered and documented knowledge of
this lists members.



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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:04:01 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Documentation of Dutch Ovens?

In a message dated 3/1/00 4:41:50 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Are you referring to the sketch that was posted a few days back? To my eye,

that is a cast iron pot or cauldron or what ever but not a modern Dutch

Oven.  >>

Yeah Capt.... but I was thinking a guy could put coals over the top flat
cover, and bake in it too..... also appears to be of cast iron to me.  I
quite agree... the "Lodge" type dutch oven aint right for what we're doing...

Ymos,
Steve

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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:12:26 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Common misconception

In a message dated 3/1/00 4:50:33 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< It would seem that most goods going to the mountains would have been packed

in barrels or packs but whether or not wooden boxes actually went, they are

an item that are accepted in most venues.  >>

I've been over to Fort Vancouver and got the dimensions off the wooden
"Cassettes" they have over there. Have made a few and they fit good in a
canoe. I agree though...not the easiest to pack on a hoss....
Ymos,
Steve

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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:20:03 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Turkey Calls

<<<<<call shipped today---
hawk--->>>

Hawk.....you are the Man.... Planning a sashay in NE Washington when the
season opens and will give you a report on how maney of them varmits I scared
away! Gotta get close with a 20ga Fusil...
Ymos,
Steve

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