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hist_text-digest       Monday, February 21 2000       Volume 01 : Number 469



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List:Turkey Calls
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-List obedient servants
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: YMHOS
-áááááá MtMan-List: SMFT Rendezvous
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-List obedient servants
-áááááá MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: dutch oven
-áááááá RE: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?

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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:51:11 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes

Is there an address and phone no: that go with the name. Ole #718
- ----------
>From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes
>Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000, 7:43 AM
>

>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: February 18, 2000 10:49 AM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes
>
>
>>northwoods
>>whose catalog did you get that has the shellak flakes for sale---can you
>>get me on their mailing list---would appreciate it---
>
>Hawk, It's called  "The Cutting Edge, Inc."  They carry woodworking tools
>and supplies. I just found the place last week and already have placed and
>received my first order. It was one of the few places that I could find a
>decent surgical grade black Arkansas stone. In fact they have a great
>selection of sharpening equipment and there tools (hand tools) are
>absolutely top of the line, all the good names. The owners Steve and Terri
>LeGrue seem like nice folks. I spoke with both over the phone and they
>answered my questions and shipped my package out pronto.
>www.cuttingedgetools.com
>BTW not all of the items on the website are in the catalog and vice versa.
>
>northwoods
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 12:22:02 -0600
From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes

Try Albert Constantine & Son (since 1812) 800-223-8087

Any woodworkers supply catalog that doesn't carry shellac in several grades,
hide glue, turpentine, pumice, rottenstone & whiting; won't have anything
worth
buying.  Find a supplier with useful offerings

John...



At 08:43 AM 2/19/00 -0600, you wrote:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>Date: February 18, 2000 10:49 AM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes
>
>
>>northwoods
>>whose catalog did you get that has the shellak flakes for sale---can you
>>get me on their mailing list---would appreciate it---
>
>Hawk, It's called=A0 "The Cutting Edge, Inc."=A0 They carry woodworking=
 tools
>and supplies. I just found the place last week and already have placed and
>received my first order. It was one of the few places that I could find a
>decent surgical grade black Arkansas stone. In fact they have a great
>selection of sharpening equipment and there tools (hand tools) are
>absolutely top of the line, all the good names. The owners Steve and Terri
>LeGrue seem like nice folks. I spoke with both over the phone and they
>answered my questions and shipped my package out pronto.
><http://www.cuttingedgetools.com/>www.cuttingedgetools.com
>BTW not all of the items on the website are in the catalog and vice versa.
>
>northwoods
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info:
<http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html>http://www.xmission.com/
~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>=20
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <[e-mail]>=20


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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:22:19 -0600
From: "northwoods" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ole B. Jensen <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: February 19, 2000 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Short Winter's Jaunt- snowshoes


>Is there an address and phone no: that go with the name. Ole #718


Yes Ole, Just click on this link and it's all there. You can get a catalog
in no time, or they have an on-line catalog.
www.cuttingedgetools.com
They have  an excellent selection of hand tools like chisels, gouges, and
planes.
They say they will beat anyones prices on Henry Taylor brand (since 1834)
tools from Sheffield, England.

northwoods


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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:01:04 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Turkey Calls

Thanks Hawk..... tiger maple and a cloth bag would be great! Let me know what
the damage is...
Ymos
Steve

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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 17:29:35 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-List obedient servants

Scalphunter <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Here is just a sample of Alexander Henry the Younger's
> journal.... "  The Crows had a handsome slave girl, about 12 years of age,
> who was offered to us for a gun, 100 balls, and enough powder to fire them;
> but those rascally Big Bellies would not allow us to purchase her, saying
> they wanted her for themselves."
Not all Native women were slaves. It is, however, one of the shameful truths
of the Canadian fur trade that fur traders were involved in the Native slave
trade, and the slaves were mostly, if not all, women. Slavery still existed
in Canada and the U.S. at this time (1806). There is some evidence to
suggest that the North West Company, which Henry belonged to, banned the
taking of Native women as slaves (or wives!) in the summer of 1806.

>An alliance with an Indian woman was
>formed without the bothersome complications of love or ceremony.  " Livernois
>exchanged his mare for a young wife of about 8 years of age."
This tradition is known as "bride price", and is practiced around the world.
The payment is to compensate the parents for the loss of their daughter's
labour. (Of course, there are greedy boors in every group, like the people
in England at this time who judged the suitability of a bride or groom by
the size of his/her fortune--read Jane Austen!)

>"There are a
>few freemen about this place who have actually disposed of their women to the
>H.B. co's people in barter for beat meat."
If I recall correctly, the freemen in question were starving at the time.
It's not clear whether they were being sold or just, um, rented.

>Such sales were often made by
>voyageurs returning to civilization and were disposing of their wives at
>bargain prices.
I don't recall seeing any evidence of such sales. Sometimes, however, prior
to 1806, women were forcibly taken to repay debts.

>I know we should not judge them by the values of the 20th
>century, but 8 years old is still a child to me!
I agree. I have heard that in Quebec at this time, the age of marriage was
12, if the parents consented; 14 without their consent. Alexander Henry the
Younger married a Native girl who was about 11 or 12; David Thompson married
Charlotte Small, a Me'tis woman, when she was 14-- and he was 29.

For a more up-to-date perspective on fur trade women and their families, I
recommend:

Brown, Jennifer S. H. _Strangers in Blood : Fur Trade Company Families in
Indian Country_. University of British Columbia : Vancouver, 1980. ISBN
0-7748-0125-5.

Van Kirk, Sylvia. _Many Tender Ties : Women in Fur-Trade Society,
1670-1870_. Watson & Dwyer : Winnipeg, 1980. ISBN 0-920486-06-1

Both books are still in print, in paperback editions.


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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:13:53 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: YMHOS

Moses (Ancient Mountain Man # 0003) appears to have been the Great
Spirit Father's Most Humble and Obedient Servant [Numbers 12:3, KJV
Bible].

- -----------------------------------
your ~2,000,000th? most obedient servant from Michigan
- -----------------------------------


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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 20:47:55 -0800
From: "Hill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: SMFT Rendezvous

I just got back from the SMFT Rendezvous north of Las Vegas NV...(had to
leave early due to bronchitis rearing it's ugly head this week.)

My first rendezvous except for one time walking thru one...

I was privileged to watch and even help out a little on the team shoot...

You can't have that much fun in town!

It was obvious those that practice their survival skills on an ongoing and
frequent basis (some were, I understand AMM members) did much better in the
team shoot.  they were more aware of opportunities and dangers than the
teams made up of the casual "mountain men."  I also noticed (from the little
I was able to see) that those who were using trade guns and had been doing
so exclusively and seriously did not seem at much of a handicap if at all
with the majority of rifle shooters.

Very impressive!

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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 01:40:01 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-List obedient servants

Also try John C. Jackson, Children of the Fur Trade (Missoula 1996) ISBN
087842329x

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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:14:43 -0700
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?

Hello the camp,
Just for the sake of discussion, I would like to know thoughts on Dutch
Ovens and there use during the fur trade (1830 to 1845)?. I belive they were
used in conjunction with other iron pots.
- -----------------
Aux Aliments de Pays!
Ole

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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:31:03 -0800
From: "Mike Katona" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?

Ole-
 I guess the proper response to this would be, why do you think that dutch
ovens and cast iron pots were in use during the fur trade period?

Two Squaws
Hrvn 914



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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 04:32:50 -0800
From: "Hill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?

I remember thoughts on Dutch ovens being discussed re:  weight of transport
Light weight kettles would be more appropriate unless the party had an
extensive mule train or better yet wagons to carry such heavy items.
From my youth when I saw pack parties in Utah they carried Dutch ovens on
mules and nested them.
BUT they were transporting them for a short time use and often cached the
ovens at high summer camps for use over the long term

my distant cousins were sheepers and used them often BUT they kept their
Dutch's (2-3 per camp at least) in sheep wagons and only moved the wagons
infrequently.

for what it is worth
- ----------
>From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
>To: "hist_text" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?
>Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000, 7:14 PM
>

>Hello the camp,
>Just for the sake of discussion, I would like to know thoughts on Dutch
>Ovens and there use during the fur trade (1830 to 1845)?. I belive they were
>used in conjunction with other iron pots.
>-----------------
>Aux Aliments de Pays!
>Ole
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: 21 Feb 2000 06:34:30 -0800
From: Buck Conner <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?

On Sun, 20 February 2000, "Mike Katona" wrote:

>
> Ole-
>  I guess the proper response to this would be, why do you think that dutch
> ovens and cast iron pots were in use during the fur trade period?
>
> Two Squaws
> Hrvn 914
>
I've found reference to a form of dutch ovens being used by the '49 ers, in wagons going west. Most commonly used in the Civil War and later on, again being carried in wagons !

Later
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~ AMM ~ Lenni-Lenape Society ~ NRA ~~~~
~~~~ http://pages.about.com/buckconner ~~~
~ http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
"meat's not meat until it's in the pan"
                   Aux Aliments de Pays!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:01:31 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?

"Dutch" ovens were being traded during colonial times, and Paul Revere made
modifications to their design, coming up with nearly the style we use today.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Buck Conner <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, February 21, 2000 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?


>On Sun, 20 February 2000, "Mike Katona" wrote:
>
>>
>> Ole-
>>  I guess the proper response to this would be, why do you think that
dutch
>> ovens and cast iron pots were in use during the fur trade period?
>>
>> Two Squaws
>> Hrvn 914
>>
>I've found reference to a form of dutch ovens being used by the '49 ers, in
wagons going west. Most commonly used in the Civil War and later on, again
being carried in wagons !
>
>Later
>Buck Conner
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>~~~~ AMM ~ Lenni-Lenape Society ~ NRA ~~~~
>~~~~ http://pages.about.com/buckconner ~~~
>~ http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark ~
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
>"meat's not meat until it's in the pan"
>                   Aux Aliments de Pays!
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:01:12 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: dutch oven

In addition to the Dutch oven another style is shown in the Tools Traps and
Firearms of the Mountain Man by Russell.  This is a round oven.  Works
super.  I have a #1 and #6.  Great camp gear.
Walt
Park City, Montana


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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:22:21 -0800
From: "Mike Katona" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Dutch Ovens?

The point of my message on the dutch ovens was trying to have some
historical references, as in "why do you think that dutch ovens were in
use".  Normally when a person thinks something was in use during the fur
trade they either 1) have a reference or 2)just like the particular article
so much they want it to be.
I have three pack mules that I drag behind my riding mule and I don't pack
dutch ovens.  I guess I could but I just don't get consumed with preparing
big meals.
Two Squaws
Hrvn 914



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End of hist_text-digest V1 #469
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