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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:04:23 +0000
From: rick_williams@byu.edu
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Guns of the Fur Trade
Firearms of the American West Volume 1 is very good. They detail some of
the contracts that the AFC and ohters had with Pennsylvania and St. Louis
based smiths.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of northwoods
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 8:33 PM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the Fur Trade
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Schrotter <mail4dog@yahoo.com>
To: hist list <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: January 20, 2000 12:10 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Guns of the Fur Trade
>No one has mentioned "Firearms, Traps and Tools" which
>was one of the references we used years ago. Has it
>been discredited over time?
nooooo! Still one of the best references ever compiled.
northwoods
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:02:18 -0700
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the Fur Trade
It would be neat to see a AFC table of trade arms from 1828-1850
Badgerhole
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:57:36 -0800
From: "Wayne & Terri" <wharper@sinclair.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN
Yes gentlemen, history is written by the victors, and with a slant. Just
check out our history. It is written that the land of where the US is was
barren of human life. and just ripe for the taking. It was manifest destiny
for the white European to take this land and abuse it as "HE" seemed fit.
I must say that the French at least respected the native community in as
much as they wanted them as partners not slaves. Respected them as a people
not as a savage that did not have any sense.
Enough of this soap box... Sorry gentlemen for the carrying on....
3-Strings
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:22:06 -0600
From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne & Terri <wharper@sinclair.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: January 21, 2000 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN
>Just check out our history. It is written that the land of where the US is
was
>barren of human life. and just ripe for the taking.
Where is that written? I can't remember ever seeing it.
northwoods
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:34:53 EST
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cultivation of camas
We are a little slow in responding with this, but we had to check
with our friend and mentor, Bill Varga, to get the address for bulbs and for
some extra information on camas. camassia quamash is a member of the lily
family, a blue flowered plant resembling a hyacinth. They can be grown from
seeds, but it may take as long as 2 or 3 years to get a bloom this way. It
is much faster to grow the bulbs. Each bulb has platelets at the bottom of
it, which form new bulbs. Camas can be cultivated, and has been grown in
gardens for years, for its beautiful flowers,rather than as a food crop.
Flowers bloom in June, and this is when bulbs are gathered, as the blue
blossom assures that one is not gathering the white flowering death camas.
It does grow along wetter areas in mountain meadows but these areas are dry
as summer progresses, so it does not actually need bog conditions all year to
grow, just a lot of water early in the season. kWe found it growing in what
appeared to be fairly rich, heavy soil, PH around 7 or 8. If you want to try
growing your own, here is a source where you can buy bulbs. They have five
different types available, but camassia quamash is our Rocky Mt. native.
The Daffodil Mart
7463 Heath Trail
Gloucester Va.
23061
Phone #: 1-800-all-bulb
address and above info. courtesy of Bill Varga, better known as Paco
Solitaire.
Its very delicious eaten raw, but after baking they are absoutely
wonderful! It took three hours of steam baking to cook
just a handful of bulbs. They were just like candy when they were done, Be
careful, though. Too many will give diarrhea, just like when Lewis and Clark
party gorged themselves on it. We flattened some cooked bulbs in the palms
of our hands and sun dried them to take on our 5 day ride, and they were
good, too, but nothing beats fresh baked.
See ya on the trail,
Crazy & Jill
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:34:38 -0600
From: "Anne MacDonnald" <sabella3@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN
huh what????!?!?!? and pray tell who were all those
unwashed masses clad in leather living here before us
white men 'discovered' this land... oh puhleeeeze....!!!!
sigh... I have seen a lot of cow chips but this one takes the entire cake!
grins..
anne
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne & Terri <wharper@sinclair.net>
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Date: January 21, 2000 8:01 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN
>
>
> >Just check out our history. It is written that the land of where the US
is
> was
> >barren of human life. and just ripe for the taking.
>
> Where is that written? I can't remember ever seeing it.
>
> northwoods
>
>
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> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:51:47 -0600
From: "Anne MacDonnald" <sabella3@earthlink.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Alafia
heya all;
just wanted to telly everyone the Alafia is alive and well.
Spent the day out there... oh my, the goodies to be had.
I hear my new flintlock .40 shoots right fine... the sibling who gave it to
me for Yule, is the one enjoying it...
my surgeon tells me that if he hears of me belly dancing of shooting guns,
he will personaly commit me...
as if my insanity was ever in question to begin with...
The weather today was magnificent... sunny, cool wind, out of the sun, but
sorta warm... warm is a relative & highly subjective word with a native
floridian. We think anything below 70 is going to give us frostbite.
::laughing::
I went to visit freinds, who are merchants, and to shop...
I do things with fabrics and wool.. that is the best way to describe some of
my interests... well I play a bit with leather and furs, but not often
anymore [grins].
You guys are really missing something. [she says with a small evil smile]
sigh... and I am sure I shall be missing a lot this summer.
I had a most fortunate thing happen. The lady who does Heritage Clothiers,
marvelous stuff. Sent me to another couple who live near where I am moving
to go to school in Ohio, they will hook me up with the whole French and
Indian circuit up there... oh my...how wonderful.
I figure that since I am to be up in Yankeeland [as my dtr calls it] for a
yr and a half, and the SCA up there is only around a bit, and the F&I thing
is big up there..heck
why not have a good time, and then there is Friendship.
right down the Interstate... oh my! oh joy! I will have a brain fulll of
learning when I head south to NOLA.
But the Alafia, walked outside the RV to leave and the sky just took my
breath away. I Live in a city, the ambient light takes away the beauty of
the night sky. I had forgotten there was a Milky Way... The Lady Moon rose
and blessed me with her light as I drove home, what a way to end a perfect
day, one with family, and freinds doing something I love dearly.
anne macdonnald
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:14:43 -0800
From: "Wayne & Terri" <wharper@sinclair.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN
No, but that is the way the land was treated and nor would I say that the
natives were treated fairly and given far price for the lands that they
lived on. They were never thrown off the land that was theirs. Of course
they were the losers in the war. and the European's were the just victors.
and of course every treaty that that was ratified by both the Indian and
congress was followed though to the letter by the government of the United
States. And Congress did take excellent care of the natives when it was
decided that they would be the guardians of the Native Americans. And the
Indians were always at fault when a treaty was broken even though they sat
on a chunk of land that would not produce anything and there was no food
provided for them when the government had stated they would supply the
necessities of life if they stayed on the reservation......
Of course I am getting on the soap box again. What do I know, Just read the
history that the white man has written and he will tell you that it was
manifest destiny for the white race to dominate and tame the North American
Continent from sea to shining sea. Of course what happened in 1492 to now
were nothing just the lost of culture and lives over the number of years.
There were only about 50 million humans on the North American Continent when
Columbus started the invasion in North America. But there is as few as 1%
left in the US.
3-strings.
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:15:39 -0800
From: "Wayne & Terri" <wharper@sinclair.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN
true
3strings
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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 05:38:11 EST
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Winter mocs
Hello there by the fire.
There was some talk going on about pack type moc. I was a wonderin if any
one out there had come across any first hand accounts of this kind of winter
foot ware being used in the mountains during the fur trade. I've read about
blanket scraps being warped around the feet in leu of sox, but nothing about
a booty being sewn. But I have not read every thing in fact there are somehow
question weather I can read at all. I have come across mention of Buffalo
hair on winter mochas. But winter ware like so many other areas of the fur
trade
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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 06:55:50 EST
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Winter mocs
oops a durn miss fire, how did that thing get away from me before I was
done with it? I loves these new finagled contraptions! Where was I? Oh ya;
there just isn't a lot of first hand accounts that go in to much detail about
winter ware. I have used buffalo and deer with hair on to make my winter
moccasins. They have served me well for several years. I have found that they
do dry slower then pack type. the hair holds the moisture and you can't take
them apart like you can packs. In my opinion side seam hair high toped winter
moccasins like the Indians in the Rockies were making. Would be the type used
by the trappers. For one reason a lone buffalo, deer and elk were all around
them. Blankets had to be shipped from Saint Leu then bought at mountain
prices.
Witch would you have used!
See ya on the trail
Crazy& Jill
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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:11:46 -0800
From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Winter mocs
GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote:
Hello there by the fire.
There was some talk going on about pack type moc. I was a wondering
if any
one out there had come across any first hand accounts of this kind of
winter
foot ware being used in the mountains during the fur trade.
grazing Coyote,
I too can't recall right off where I have read it (perhaps in Journal of
a Trapper or the L&C Journals) but I have read accounts of
"Frontiersmen" setting down to make "stockings" along with moccasins in
anticipation of winter and rough going.
I've read about
blanket scraps being warped around the feet in leu of sox, but nothing
about
a booty being sewn.
That is the most common reference made. A simple wrapping of the feet
with blanket strips. As I said, I have read where a party was making
socks of what I would assume was blanketing.
I have come across mention of Buffalo
hair on winter mochas. But winter ware like so many other areas of the
fur
trade Where was I? Oh ya;
> there just isn't a lot of first hand accounts that go in to much detail about
> winter ware.
That is one of the problems with recreating the history of our early
frontiers. The every day chores and practices were taken for granted by
the practitioners and just not written down in the detail we would like.
I have used buffalo and deer with hair on to make my winter
> moccasins. They have served me well for several years. I have found that they
> do dry slower then pack type. the hair holds the moisture and you can't take
> them apart like you can packs. In my opinion side seam hair high toped winter
> moccasins like the Indians in the Rockies were making.
I would not agree out of hand that what you have used was all that
common especially among indians. Too many comments do exist about
stuffing moccasins with hair or grass. From what I have read (and I
can't give you references) it was more common for the northern indians,
plains or whatever to make leather mocs and stuff them with some type of
insulation rather than make mocs of buffalo robes or deer robs (with
hair). I would imagine that leg wraps were made of such material but
less common to see whole moccasins made thus. I don't even believe that
today's Inuit and Canadian Northland Indians make such moccasins, not
withstanding the use of seal or caribou robes as moccasin material.
Would be the type used
> by the trappers. For one reason a lone buffalo, deer and elk were all around
> them. Blankets had to be shipped from Saint Leu then bought at mountain
> prices.
In any case whether they would use robes from the animals available or
blankets, it is probably safe to say that both were done. Blanket
material was not "that hard" to come by. And one does what one is used
to doing if at all possible. Another consideration in how we dress
versus how they dressed, comes into play when you consider how much time
they spent outdoors and how much we do. You do get acclimated to extreme
weather conditions if you live outdoors all year long. Having no heated
house at nigh to go back to is required to achieve that.
> Witch would you have used!
I personally would have made oversized mocs of dressed hides (hair off)
and made socks of blanketing were it available. Which is what I do now.
If not then of course I would use animal robes/furs. I remain....
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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Date: 22 Jan 2000 18:38:14 -0800
From: Buck Conner <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: [none]
Gentlemen,
Have just finished a change of e-mail addresses, web site locations, etc. for personal and business pages.
AT&T decided to change there web page size from 9 meg to 6 meg, didn't bother to inform it's users, just sent a bill. I had 8 meg on personal page and my bill for that page jumped from $19.95 to $32.75. So I jumped ship and went another direction leaving AT&T suck eggs.
e-mail at:
buck.conner@uswestmail.net
personal page:
http://www.pages.about.com/buckconner
business page:
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
Thank you for your time, make needed changes for contacting me for personal or business.
Later
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~ AMM ~ Lenni-Lenape Society ~ NRA ~~~~
~~~~ http://pages.about.com/buckconner ~~~
~ http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
"meat's not meat until it's in the pan"
Aux Ailments de Pays!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:54:46 -0600
From: "Anne MacDonnald" <sabella3@earthlink.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:
buck, GTE hit me with that 100 hr per month limit.
Anything over the limit was a buck an hr. I started seeing $200/month
internet bills, and I had a small
buisness account. Not to mention the service was crappy.
I signed with Earthlink.... have been a happy camper ever since... the best
part is that when traveling, all I Need is a local number, which there seem
to be ooodles of....
marvelous company.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Buck Conner" <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
To: "Dean Rudy's "hist_list"" <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>;
"American_Mountain_Men" <ammlist@lists.xmission.com>; "Fur Trade History
