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hist_text-digest       Friday, January 14 2000       Volume 01 : Number 447



In this issue:

-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: not on this subject.
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: not on this subject.
-áááááá MtMan-List: Of wet snow and footwear....
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia
-áááááá MtMan-List: "Beaver Dick" Leigh
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Of wet snow and footwear....
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá MtMan-List: Flint vs Cap
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: MOOSE ?
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Hallo!
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important)
-áááááá MtMan-List: Email use fees-urban legend
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Trapping in Alaska
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:04:32 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia

Lee Newbill <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>The second... supposedly from Alexander Henry the Younger's journal,
(early 1814?) regarding a rather unproductive punitive expedition
to reclaim goods stolen by some inland Indians....
"At noon we embarked in four birch-rind canoes and two large wooden
canoes...."
Location was Fort George (Old Fort Astoria), near the mouth of the
Columbia.
Will attempt to find the actual entries in Henry's journal when I get a
chance....<<

Allow me <g>.
From Alexander Henry the Younger's Fort George journal for 10 Jan 1814:
"At 12 O'Clock we embarked on board four canoes, two birch rind and two
large wooden, 51 men and 11 Passengers, aslo Coalpo and his wife, their own
canoe going in company with us, paddled by eight of his slaves." (Gough
edition vol 2, p. 640)
11 Jan 1814:"At half past 6 O'clock one of our bark canoes run upon a rock
and broke a large hole in her bottom..." (Gough 1:642)
12 Jan 1814:"At 12 OClock one of our bark canoes ran foul of a stump, and
tore two bits of bark from her bottom, about the size of my hand, which
instantly floated on the water behind the canoe. Still by bailing out the
water she was kept afloat until one OClock when we put ashore to repair
her..." (Gough 1:643)

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:40:26 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia

Ho Lee,
Thanks for doin all that research! The birchbark canoe is just to versatile
of a water craft to be left east of the Stonies and damned in it ain't a
great way to get around. Beside, ya don't have to feed em.....
Ymos,
Steve

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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:44:46 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: not on this subject.

Howdy all,
    I was beginning to get worried, cause i havent received any postings for
a few days. Did I miss something?  Did something happen?....??????  was sure
clad t see brother Lee's post today when i signed on.

watch yer topknots
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZz
Wade "Sleeps loudly" Smith

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:15:05 -0800
From: R Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: not on this subject.

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Howdy all,
>     I was beginning to get worried, cause i havent received any postings for
> a few days. Did I miss something?  Did something happen?....??????  was sure
> clad t see brother Lee's post today when i signed on.
>
> watch yer topknots
> ZZZZZZZZZZZZZz
> Wade "Sleeps loudly" Smith

Sleeps loudly,

It has been pretty quiet. You didn't miss anything. I was very
interested in what Friend Lee came up with. I'll have to incorporate
that finding in my thinking now. Thanks Lee, and Angela. I remain...

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

P.S. Lee, got your gear together yet? Feb. 11/14 is coming fast. Have
Vern help?!

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:29:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Of wet snow and footwear....

On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, R Lahti wrote:
> P.S. Lee, got your gear together yet? Feb. 11/14 is coming fast. Have
> Vern help?!

Dearest Capt.

At first, I was planning to recreate the atmosphere of Valley Forge, and
walk in barefoot, leaving bloodstained snow behind as a marker to the way
out, then, in just a short distance, you all would have to carry
me...... then I remembered who was going, and figgered you would either
shoot all laggards, or try and make extra rations of me.... so.....

I am now working feverishly on the "blanket pacs", and am wondering how to
do the seams so that they don't (1) all line up with the outer mocs, and
(2) don't chafe me tender, delicate footsies?

Your Most Obedient Servant...

Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
http://www.geocities.com/~lnewbill


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:40:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia

On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Angela Gottfred wrote:
> Allow me <g>.
> >From Alexander Henry the Younger's Fort George journal for 10 Jan 1814:

Thanks Angela!

I must note that everytime I read about the birchbark canoes... I also
read a lot about "pitching the seams", or bailing, or "the canoe broke
upon the rock".  High maintenance and delicate creatures they were, but
with all that, they logged thousands of miles in them, if not without more
than a few voyagers going to a watery grave.

Your Most Obedient Servant...

Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
http://www.geocities.com/~lnewbill




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:19:54 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: "Beaver Dick" Leigh

"Dull Hawk" and Allen, sorry it's takin' me so long to get back to you.  I've
been trying to uncover the mystery.  It appears that Beaver Dick Leigh cannot
be a direct ancestor, but I'm trying to find out about a possible brother to
him in Montana.  My mother is 1/8 Th. Blackfoot and Beaver Dick married
Bannack and Shoshone Indians.  It just doesn't jive.  My Mother's father was
Palmer Leigh -his father was Elmer Leigh- his father is "name unknown" and
was a scout for the Cavelry.  If he were Beaver Dick's brother then that
would be the only possible link.  Thanks again for your information.  I did
order a couple of the books the two of you mentioned. Jenny of The Tetons was
great.  I haven't been able to get This Side Of The Mountains yet, but I am
still trying.  I haven't given up.  My sister and I may go to Wyoming to the
museum and then to Montana if we have to, but we are determined to find the
link.
Thanks again so much. Jamie
[e-mail]

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:52:47 -0800
From: R Lahti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Of wet snow and footwear....

Lee Newbill wrote:

> Dearest Capt.

Lee,

Not that I mind blind servitude but that sure sounds like a kissup to
me. Dearest Capt. Indeed!

>
> At first, I was planning to recreate the atmosphere of Valley Forge,

Too early a period.

and
> walk in barefoot, leaving bloodstained snow behind as a marker to the way
> out, then, in just a short distance, you all would have to carry
> me...... then I remembered who was going, and figgered you would either
> shoot all laggards, or try and make extra rations of me.... so.....

Reality is now sinking in.

>
> I am now working feverishly on the "blanket pacs", and am wondering how to
> do the seams so that they don't (1) all line up with the outer mocs, and
> (2) don't chafe me tender, delicate footsies?

Glad I asked you to ask. Baseball stitch or "herring bone" stitch. Use
wool yarn for most seams. I just finished two pair using an old Sorel
Pac liner for a pattern. Two uppers that fasten up the front of the foot
and two sole pieces that have a simply running stitch all the way around
to fasten uppers and soles. Make the uppers first if you have a pattern
like I did. Lots simpler to get the right shape. If you do that just
start at the front and do a "herring bone" stitch back and forth between
each side as you move up the seam. The stitch pulls the two pieces
together so they butt like the stitches on a baseball make the pieces of
a baseball cover butt together. I think they use two threads on
baseballs but you can use just one, going back and forth, it will look
like a baseball stitch.

Once the uppers are together to the front of the ankle or a bit lower,
(don't want them so tight there you can't pull them on), start at the
front of one side and using a simple up and down running stitch go from
front to back and then back to front pushing the needle the opposite way
through the first set of stitches. Start at the front and attach the
other side the same way. Once done with that you can trim off any extra
material up the back and use the herring bone stitch to close that seam.
The only seams that might give you any problem are the ones at the
bottom sides and they will have the selvage to the outside.

Another important feature you should incorporate is a stitch line across
each two sole pieces just behind the ball of your foot and just forward
of your heal. You can do that with normal thread so the stitch itself is
not thick. These two lines of stitch keep the sole pieces from sliding
with your foot.

If you do not have an existing pattern for the sides you simply sew the
sides as "rectangles" onto the soles along the bottom seam first and
then up the back and then close the front by going back and forth as you
gather the two fronts together. Trim the excess off the fronts and
backs, cut the seam open, trim off the seam allowance and put back
together with the baseball/herringbone stitch so you do not have a
raised seam pressing into the top of your foot.

You can make mocs the same way but for winter snow shoeing I like a
center seam with a vamp insert like the "Lakes" indians make/made in
Canada, etc. Hard to explain how to make those. You need to see a
picture. But the above directions will make serviceable mocs. Be sure to
make the mocs after you have the liners made that will fit over wool
socks.

I think we are going to go to the Gresham BP gun show this Sat. and not
go up to the David T Party winter camp for just one night. Talk at you
later. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:08:00 -0700
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion

Bill,
    I have always wafered of this subject ( I shoot and hunt with a flinter most
of the time and carry a flinter at camps), but did run across something I found
interesting  on this subject while doing rescearch on another project:
    from "Adventures in the Santa Fe Trade, 1844-47" by James Josiah Webb. pages
116-7
    "He (Doan) had been presented with an old rifle by Messrs. Bent, St. Vrain
and Company, and wished me to trade with him for a double-barrelled shotgun I
had. The trade proposed was not very enticing, but inconsideration of his
anxiety for the trade and the history of the rifle, I finally accomodated him by
a even swap, and have never regretted it. Many years before, a trapper employed
by the American Fur Company had taken it on a trapping expedition in the
Blackfeet country . The Indians killed him and took his gun. Years after Messrs.
Bent, St. Vrain and Company sent an expedition to that nation on a trapping and
trading trip, and traded for the old rifle. At the fort it was restocked (full
length) and altered from flint-lock to percussion, and kept at the fort as a
target rifle for several years. In 1846 I had it newly grooved, half stocked,
and added a new lock and breech pin, and carried it in all my travels in the
trade except for my last trip. In 1849 a man from Boonville Missouri, on his way
to California, came into the store where I was cleaning it up, and on looking at
it, said " My father made that gun. There are his initials. It must be very old,
for he has been dead for many years and did no work of that kind for many of the
last years of his life. He made all his guns by hammering out the barrels by
hand and boring them and creasing them in the same way".
    This is the history of my old and trusty friend, companion and bedfellow,
who never went back on me- "old Blackfoot"- the name it was known by at the fort
and which I always retained."
        Quite a history! And it also shows how some of the old guns were used
and reused till there were nothing left.

Bill Cunningham wrote:

> Absolutely! I agree with you entirely here, Pat. In fact, my first flinter I
> got in 1945 or 46 when my dad reached up over the windows in the front room
> of the old farm and told me that when I'd got a deer with it he'd consider
> getting me the 38-40 I kept harping about. By the time I learned to shoot it
> and got a deer with it I didn't want the 38-40. Flintlock was my game! I
> still shoot them (though traditional bows seem to be more my speed today) in
> preference to all others.. I'm sure there were mountain men who felt the
> same way.
> Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
> To: Mtnman Forum (E-mail) <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 10:33 AM
> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion
>
> >   Bill C and I are not really at odds in our impressions. I would agree
> >that percussion was rapidly taking over in the 1830's, but there were some
> >holdouts, therefore either would be "correct".
> >   I resisted reading Edward Warren until recently because it was "only a
> >novel". However, Stewart makes it clear in his prologue that his intent was
> >to document as much of the color and detail of his travelling observations
> >as possible in an accessible form. The "storyline" is fairly ludicrous, but
> >the incidents he reports have often been corroborated, and he gives them
> >with more detail than you get in most of the journals. I read his remarks
> >about the trapper's guns through the eyes of a high-class nobleman,
> somewhat
> >disdainful of the backwards ways of the scroungy Americans. He conveyed the
> >impression that the flintlock users were the older more hide-bound
> trappers,
> >and his remark was offered as if he were answering some contention which
> >occured around the campfires. In any case, he noted their guns, so I
> offered
> >this as an eyewitness account that there were still some flint users at the
> >end of the period.
> >   I would wager that new or rebuilt rifles coming into the mountains from
> >the1830's on were percussion, while those who were still using older
> >worn-out guns for whatever reason (sentiment, trust, poverty) were usually
> >flint. The dividing line may have been whether or not you travelled to a
> >major center of gun building (St Louis). I agree with Bill that there was a
> >thriving business converting flint to percussion -- the museums are full of
> >such examples. Therefore, it appears most users were voting with their
> >wallets as soon as percussion was a stable technology. The transition was
> >clearly under way in the 1830's and presumably complete by the 1840's.
> >However, 10-20 years is none too long to replace a major technology -- guns
> >at this time were comparable to automobiles now, being a central piece of
> >"high technology" which people depended on. Even in this age of rapid
> >development, it takes over 20 years for a technology like fuel injection to
> >replace carburettors. So just because something was invented in 1822
> doesn't
> >mean everyone had it only ten years later.
> >Respectfully submitted
> >Patrick Quilter.
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:52:30 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion

I don't waffle on the subject - I tend to get pedantic and boring about it.
In my mind, according to the research I've done (and I once did considerable
for a series of magazine articles), percussions hit the mountains about as
quickly as they became available and the trappers could lay hands on them.
Yes, many of them merely had their flints converted to cap, but that still
made a percussion gun.
I prefer the romance - and the convenience - of a flinter. To me they have
more personality and I prefer priming the pan to loading up a cap loader and
then squeezing that fragile little sucker onto the nipple. And for me a
flinter cleans easier without later misfires due to something I forgot to
prod out of the nipple.
Bill
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion


>Bill,
>    I have always wafered of this subject ( I shoot and hunt with a flinter
most
>of the time and carry a flinter at camps), but did run across something I
found
>interesting  on this subject while doing rescearch on another project:
>    from "Adventures in the Santa Fe Trade, 1844-47" by James Josiah Webb.
pages
>116-7
>    "He (Doan) had been presented with an old rifle by Messrs. Bent, St.
Vrain
>and Company, and wished me to trade with him for a double-barrelled shotgun
I
>had. The trade proposed was not very enticing, but inconsideration of his
>anxiety for the trade and the history of the rifle, I finally accomodated
him by
>a even swap, and have never regretted it. Many years before, a trapper
employed
>by the American Fur Company had taken it on a trapping expedition in the
>Blackfeet country . The Indians killed him and took his gun. Years after
Messrs.
>Bent, St. Vrain and Company sent an expedition to that nation on a trapping
and
>trading trip, and traded for the old rifle. At the fort it was restocked
(full
>length) and altered from flint-lock to percussion, and kept at the fort as
a
>target rifle for several years. In 1846 I had it newly grooved, half
stocked,
>and added a new lock and breech pin, and carried it in all my travels in
the
>trade except for my last trip. In 1849 a man from Boonville Missouri, on
his way
>to California, came into the store where I was cleaning it up, and on
looking at
>it, said " My father made that gun. There are his initials. It must be very
old,
>for he has been dead for many years and did no work of that kind for many
of the
>last years of his life. He made all his guns by hammering out the barrels
by
>hand and boring them and creasing them in the same way".
>    This is the history of my old and trusty friend, companion and
bedfellow,
>who never went back on me- "old Blackfoot"- the name it was known by at the
fort
>and which I always retained."
>        Quite a history! And it also shows how some of the old guns were
used
>and reused till there were nothing left.
>
>Bill Cunningham wrote:
>
>> Absolutely! I agree with you entirely here, Pat. In fact, my first
flinter I
>> got in 1945 or 46 when my dad reached up over the windows in the front
room
>> of the old farm and told me that when I'd got a deer with it he'd
consider
>> getting me the 38-40 I kept harping about. By the time I learned to shoot
it
>> and got a deer with it I didn't want the 38-40. Flintlock was my game! I
>> still shoot them (though traditional bows seem to be more my speed today)
in
>> preference to all others.. I'm sure there were mountain men who felt the
>> same way.
>> Bill
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
>> To: Mtnman Forum (E-mail) <[e-mail]>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 10:33 AM
>> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion
>>
>> >   Bill C and I are not really at odds in our impressions. I would agree
>> >that percussion was rapidly taking over in the 1830's, but there were
some
>> >holdouts, therefore either would be "correct".
>> >   I resisted reading Edward Warren until recently because it was "only
a
>> >novel". However, Stewart makes it clear in his prologue that his intent
was
>> >to document as much of the color and detail of his travelling
observations
>> >as possible in an accessible form. The "storyline" is fairly ludicrous,
but
>> >the incidents he reports have often been corroborated, and he gives them
>> >with more detail than you get in most of the journals. I read his
remarks
>> >about the trapper's guns through the eyes of a high-class nobleman,
>> somewhat
>> >disdainful of the backwards ways of the scroungy Americans. He conveyed
the
>> >impression that the flintlock users were the older more hide-bound
>> trappers,
>> >and his remark was offered as if he were answering some contention which
>> >occured around the campfires. In any case, he noted their guns, so I
>> offered
>> >this as an eyewitness account that there were still some flint users at
the
>> >end of the period.
>> >   I would wager that new or rebuilt rifles coming into the mountains
from
>> >the1830's on were percussion, while those who were still using older
>> >worn-out guns for whatever reason (sentiment, trust, poverty) were
usually
>> >flint. The dividing line may have been whether or not you travelled to a
>> >major center of gun building (St Louis). I agree with Bill that there
was a
>> >thriving business converting flint to percussion -- the museums are full
of
>> >such examples. Therefore, it appears most users were voting with their
>> >wallets as soon as percussion was a stable technology. The transition
was
>> >clearly under way in the 1830's and presumably complete by the 1840's.
>> >However, 10-20 years is none too long to replace a major technology --
guns
>> >at this time were comparable to automobiles now, being a central piece
of
>> >"high technology" which people depended on. Even in this age of rapid
>> >development, it takes over 20 years for a technology like fuel injection
to
>> >replace carburettors. So just because something was invented in 1822
>> doesn't
>> >mean everyone had it only ten years later.
>> >Respectfully submitted
>> >Patrick Quilter.
>> >
>> >----------------------
>> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:18:32 -0800 (PST)
From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Flint vs Cap

   My feelings are hurt.
 When I ask this same basic question a few months ago,
I didn't get this much info.
 I guess thats why you have to keep up with the flow.
 grn

=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

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------------------------------

Date: 13 Jan 00 20:27:49 EST
From: Concho Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MOOSE ?

Hello Camp,

Just got back from hunting in Colorado with friends, nice fat cow elk for=
 the
effort. Talk about moose Mike, Buck was right we saw a half dozen year ol=
d
calves, some mom's and two bulls, right where he told you Mr. Moore to lo=
ok.

The weather was great, never that nice when Turtle and yours truely lived=

there, perfect hunting weather and good sleeping.

We're going to apply for moose in Colorado in April now that Buck showed =
them
to me, out of stater's may have trouble getting drawn from what a game wa=
rden
told us. I'll try anyway, man are those babies are big and they don't see=
m to
care whether you are around, not like elk that haul ass.

Pennsylvania has started a good elk program, something else to draw for t=
his
year.

Seems like everytime Dennis - I get to my e-mail I'm doing wash after
returning from Colorado. Damn Buck makes it to easy for me and his wife a=
lways
loads me up with lots of goodies to eat while I'm driving back home, thin=
k she
figures if I got a sugar hi, I won't go to sleep while driving.

Later, another load is done.

Concho

Hey Buck - THANKS

Oh your personal page looks great, check it out guys he put a few items f=
rom
his collection on it, neat stuff and more to come. Get the trade guns and=
 the
officers pistols on there pal - everyone would like to see them.


____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:15:06 -0800
From: "Hill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion

I remember reading that most of the boys that went to the civil war used
flintlocks at home due to the cost of percussion caps that were used as
tools for rich people and professionals (but I can't remember where I saw
it, may have been in Foote's books)
- ----------
>From: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion
>Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000, 9:10 AM
>

>It seems that opinions very! It does seem to be a hard  ?  to answer
>from what I've read in books (thats why I asked!) But I think Im
>inclined to agree w/ Mr. Cunningham! If I'm
>not mistaken the Percussion cap was invented
>in 1822, and it seems to me that ten years later (give or take) most
>folks would have switched if possible!?! Any other opinions?
>                                                  M.Wolfe
>
>http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin
>
>The road to progress is the path of fools!!!
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:32:43 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important)

>INTERNET FEES-GOING TO CONGRESS
>CNN has reported that within the next two weeks Congress is going to vote
>on allowing telephone companies to CHARGE A TOLL FEE for Internet access.
>Translation: Every time we send a long distance e-mail we will receive a
>long distance charge. This will get costly. Please visit the following web
>site and file a complaint to your Congressperson. We can't allow this to
>pass! The following address will allow you to send an e-mail on this
>subject DIRECTLY to your Congressperson.
>
>http://www.house.gov/writerep
>
>Put this in your address book. Pass this on to your friends. It is urgent!
>I hope all of you will pass this on to all your friends and family. We
>should ALL have an interest in this one.
>
>WAIT, THERE'S MORE! IN ADDITION, The last few months have revealed an
>alarming trend in the government of the United States attempting to
>quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of the
>Internet. Under proposed legislation the U.S. Postal Service will be
>attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees." Bill 602P
>will permit the Federal Govt. to charge a 5 cent surcharge on every email
>delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer
>would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington D.C. lawyer Richard
>Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming
>law. The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the
>proliferation of e-mail costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year.
>You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is nothing like a
>letter." Since the average citizen received about 10 pieces of e-mail per
>day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual would be an additional 50
>cents per day, or over $180 dollars per year, above and beyond their
>regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money paid directly to the
>U.S. Postal Service for a service they do not even provide.
>
>The whole point of the Internet is democracy and non-interference. If the
>federal government is permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a
>surcharge to email, who knows where it will end. You are already paying an
>exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic inefficiency. It
>currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from New York to
>Buffalo. If the U.S. Postal Service is allowed to tinker with email, it
>will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. One
>congressman, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar
>per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the
>government's proposed email charges. Note that most of the major
>newspapers have ignored the story, the only exception being the
>Washingtonian which called the idea of email surcharge "a useful concept
>who's time has come" (March 6th, 1999 Editorial). Don't sit by and watch
>your freedoms erode away! Send this e-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and
>tell all your friends and relatives to write to their Congressman and say
>"No!" to Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time, and
>could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we don't want. PASS THIS
>ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WHO USES EMAIL REMEMBER THESE ARE TWO SEPARATE
>ISSUES THAT EFFECT ALL OF US ONLINE. LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD NOW, NOT
>AFTER.

****************************************
Henry B. Crawford    Box 43191
Curator of History    Museum of Texas Tech University
[e-mail]    Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
806/742-2442     FAX [phone]
              Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because It's There  ******



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:17:08 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes

Ho the list!
                 I found a ref. to Birch Bark canoes
in Sewell Newhouses (a manufacturer of beaver traps!) "The Trapers
Guide;A manual of instructions"from the 19th cen....Newhouse
praised the dugout canoe  as "strong and serviceable though many
trappers found it heavy to carry.....The birchbark canoe was, "preferred
on streams where portage is necessary."
                   YMOS,
                   M. Wolfe




http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin

The road to progress is the path of fools!!!


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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:25:30 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important)

I already did this and got a nice letter(snail mail no less) from my
congressman saying this was untrue and that he would fight any such
legeslation in the future. Also inclued was a memo from the Postoffice
titiled "E-mail rumor completely untrue!" so give your C-man a break
this is a false rumor!!!
                                    M.W

http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin

The road to progress is the path of fools!!!


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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:30:08 +0100
From: "Pavel Grund" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Hallo!

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5EB5.00FAEF40
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-2"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hallo !
I am new member these discussion group. I am from Czech republic- =
central Europe. Our club TRAPPERS=B4 CORRAL is item of WESTERNERS =
INTERNATIONAL, and is focused in life of trappers in USA, mainly =
MOUNTAINMENS. If you be interested our activity, visit  page =
WWW.WESTERNERS.CZ specially TRAPPERS=B4 CORRAL. I'm looking forward to   =
next interesting discussions . PEGGY

- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5EB5.00FAEF40
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-2"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-2" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial CE" size=3D2>Hallo !<BR>I am new member these =
discussion=20
group. I am from Czech republic- central Europe. Our club TRAPPERS=B4 =
CORRAL is=20
item of WESTERNERS INTERNATIONAL, and is focused in life of trappers in =
USA,=20
mainly MOUNTAINMENS. If you be interested our activity, visit  page =
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.WESTERNERS.CZ">WWW.WESTERNERS.CZ</A> specially =
TRAPPERS=B4=20
CORRAL. I'm looking forward to   next interesting discussions =
.=20
PEGGY</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5EB5.00FAEF40--


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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:30:00 -0800
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important)

As did I.....
John Funk


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important)


> I already did this and got a nice letter(snail mail no less) from my
> congressman saying this was untrue and that he would fight any such
> legeslation in the future. Also inclued was a memo from the Postoffice
> titiled "E-mail rumor completely untrue!" so give your C-man a break
> this is a false rumor!!!
>                                     M.W
>
> http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin
>
> The road to progress is the path of fools!!!
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:00:23 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Email use fees-urban legend

Friends,

It has been brought to my attention that the email fee story I forwarded to
this list is a hoax.  Please forgive me, but as you know these days
Congress is sometimes prone to doing some pretty silly things.  However, in
the course of discovering that this one is merely an urban legend, I
discovered a neat website at:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/culture/urbanlegends/

Some of those old tales take me back to my camp counselor days.  Enjoy.

Cheers,
HBC

****************************************
Henry B. Crawford    Box 43191
Curator of History    Museum of Texas Tech University
[e-mail]    Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
806/742-2442     FAX [phone]
              Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because It's There  ******



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:36:19 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapping in Alaska

Gee, I almost forgot why I got on here in the frist place! Question, How
early were American/
Eroupian trappers venturing up into  Alaska?
I thought I read about a Canadian Alexander
Mackenzie going into the region in the late 18th. cen.?
             Again, Your Most Obidian Servant,
                                     Michael Wolfe

http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin

The road to progress is the path of fools!!!


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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:19:30 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important)

This is a debunked hoax.
D
- --

"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
        DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
 Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
   http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1



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------------------------------

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