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hist_text-digest      Thursday, January 13 2000      Volume 01 : Number 446



In this issue:

-áááááá [none]
-áááááá MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re:
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's
-áááááá MtMan-List: NMLRA Winter National Shoot Reminder-Non NMLRA member Event Partisipation Info
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's
-áááááá MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá MtMan-List: The Crossing (fwd from Civil War listserv)
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion
-áááááá MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:26:39 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [none]

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 01:48:03 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's

Ho the List!
                  I was wonderin' what type of lock (flint or cap) was
used  most often during the
the1830's on rifles and pistols by Trappers in the Rockys,and why?
                                  YMOS,
                                             Mike Wolfe

http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin

The road to progress is the path of fools!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:31:07 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:

Off to the Alafia Ronny in the morning.  See youall when I get back.

Hope to run into some of you there... Look for the MOUSE HOUSE and all are
welcome
at our camp...

Ad Miller


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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:14:20 -0600
From: "John McKee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's

I believe that's what's known in some circles as a "slam dunk". The
prevalent type of ignition system on rifles and pistols, in the mountains,
during the fur trade era was the flintlock. Reason: If percussion caps were
to get wet (a constant environment for a beaver trapper) then they became
useless and their weapon{s} became a club.Flints didn't suffer that problem
and could be had in their "raw" state, in most areas, by bending down and
picking them up. Long John
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 12:48 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's


> Ho the List!
>                   I was wonderin' what type of lock (flint or cap) was
> used  most often during the
> the1830's on rifles and pistols by Trappers in the Rockys,and why?
>                                   YMOS,
>                                              Mike Wolfe
>
> http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin
>
> The road to progress is the path of fools!!!
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:39:03 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (BRUCE S. DE LIS)
Subject: MtMan-List: NMLRA Winter National Shoot Reminder-Non NMLRA member Event Partisipation Info

Thought I would post this reminder for everyone that the NMLRA is holding their
8th. Annual Winter National Shoot in Phoenix Arizona, at the Ben Avery Shooting F
acility approximately 23 miles to the North of Downtown Phoenix.  Starting on Feb
ruary 16, 2000, and Finishing on February 21, 2000.

Now a little news if you are not an NMLRA Member, but would like to come and Camp
 Primitive for a few days in the Sonora Desert among the Giant Saguaro Cactus, Sh
op on Trader Rows, Buy some Raffle Tickets, or just see what Winter National Shoo
t is all about.

If you are interested in coming to the event, and not participating in the NMLRA
Shooting Matches, you CAN STILL come to Ben Avery Shooting Facility, and Camp in
the Primitive Camp, as the property is under the control of the Arizona Game & Fi
sh Department.  The fees that are involved are very minimal.  It will cost you $4
.00 a day for each Primitive Camp Site no matter how many are stay in your Campsi
te

So the numbers work out like this, you and sie Tepee you can fill it with fr
iends each night, a Daily Camping Fee of $4.00 will be collected by Arizona Game
& Fish, also you will be required to pay a Range Usage Fee for each Campsite of $
4.00 every other day to use the Public Range at Ben Avery Shooting Facility.  Rea
son for the Range Fee is the Primitive Campground is open only to Registered Shoo
ters.  No reservation necessary as the Primitive Camp @ Ben Avery Shooting Facili
ty is very very large.

So the numbers work out like this, you and six friends come to the event, and Cam
p Primitive in one Campsite with one Tent.  You will pay a total of $32.00 if you
 stay the entire 6 days.

Also if you are not an NMLRA Member but are interested in participating in the NM
LRA Shooting Events, they have a NEW DEAL, where a Non Member can pay a $10.00 "E
vent Participation Fee", and participate in the Winter National Shooting Events,
buy paying all the other Normal Registration Fee, Match, or Aggregate fee etc.  B
asically you have some of the membership privileges, that allow you to compete in
 an NMLRA event without have to buy a full $35.00 Annual NMLRA Membership.

Also there are not GATE Fees at the Ben Avery Shooting Facility, so if you live c
lose enough to drive out for the day, and only want to look around, and do some s
hopping on Trader Row.  You will not have to pay a Gate, or Parking Fee.

Also this year this is a large pool of both auction, and raffle items.  That will
 be auctioned & raffle off Saturday night so if you are near come out and take a
look, and maybe buy a few raffle tickets.  There is a list of the item on my web-
page this is liked below.

If anyone need any more information about this posting or the NMLRA Winter Nation
als, send me an e-mail on this mailing list, or check my Message Forum listed bel
ow.

Hope to meet some of you @ Winter National Shoot 2000,  as I should be their with
 the Guy in the Skies help...


- --
Penny Pincher-NMLRA Field Representative In The West
Don't Forget the NMLRA Winter National Shoot 2000
February 16-21 2000 @ The Ben Avery Shooting Facility-Phoenix Arizona
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb750171

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:53:48 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's

About as soon as caps became available, the mountain men (mountaineers,
trappers, et al), converted to them. Converting flints to cap was the
mainstay of the Hawken brothers gun shop.. Whether it was because of
increased reliability, or perhaps the "in thing", the entire country went
for the latest technology. There are many recorded instances in the annals
of the fur trade that support this. (Joe Meek being chased by the bear while
his gun snapped futilely on caps, Provo outfitting his entire company with
cap lock rifles, etc.
As to brand names of either, go to Flayderman's, or other reference works,
or perhaps a patient historical minded gunsmith/builder.
Bill C
- -----Original Message-----
From: John McKee <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's


>I believe that's what's known in some circles as a "slam dunk". The
>prevalent type of ignition system on rifles and pistols, in the mountains,
>during the fur trade era was the flintlock. Reason: If percussion caps were
>to get wet (a constant environment for a beaver trapper) then they became
>useless and their weapon{s} became a club.Flints didn't suffer that problem
>and could be had in their "raw" state, in most areas, by bending down and
>picking them up. Long John
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 12:48 AM
>Subject: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's
>
>
>> Ho the List!
>>                   I was wonderin' what type of lock (flint or cap) was
>> used  most often during the
>> the1830's on rifles and pistols by Trappers in the Rockys,and why?
>>                                   YMOS,
>>                                              Mike Wolfe
>>
>> http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin
>>
>> The road to progress is the path of fools!!!
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:53:52 -0800
From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion

In the book Edward Warren, Stewart Drummond notes that the mountain men he
travelled with in 1833 and 1837 were mostly armed with "miserable shot-out
flintlock rifles". He was quite partial to his fancy English 62 caliber Joe
Manton percussion rifle. He asserted (in the hands of his favorite expert
hunter) that it took more game with less lead than the flinters. So I think
it is accepted that most veteran mountain men were hanging onto their trusty
old flint rifles, whereas the more progressive or wealthy were adopting
percussion by the end of the period. The onset of the cap-and-ball revolver
no doubt accelerated the change to percussion. Speaking personally I rather
enjoy shooting flint, and while there are a few tricks to keeping one going,
I have seen plenty of misfires with cap as well. Lewis Garrard in his 1846
account "Yah To Wah" refers to snapping on a "new waterproof cap" during
times of danger, which implies that this improvement was still worth
mentioning in the 1840's (and that exposed caps might be expected to go
stale!). We should also keep in mind that the supply lines to the frontier
improved greatly during the 1840's.
Pat Quilter

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 22:38:10 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint or Cap's

Those caplocks are a cute idea, but they won't catch on...........
hardtack

Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't give
up your Rights

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:36:07 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion

Pat, as much as I respect you and admire the research you do, I am at odds
with your position here. Edward Warren is a novel (and not a very successful
one), My interpretation of what Stewart was attempting with these passages
was to show that these trappers were on hard times, having only miserable. .
. .flintlocks (indicating that if they were not forced to they would have
better arms). Reading I have done supports that. For instance, Job Dye, a
mountain man who certainly was not among the wealthy, in 1831, when
traveling with Ewing Young, had an encounter with a bear, which he shot with
his percussion lock rifle. This is the account in which he had to stop in
the middle of the action, burn out the "tube" so the gun would continue to
fire, and then finish off the bear.
Joe Meek, in 1836 (The River of the West page 220), fought a bear (one of
his most famous fights with them). Meek was armed with a cap lock. At this
time Meek was still only a trapper, not particularly moneyed.
There are too many accounts of trappers, widely spread over the west,
carrying cap locks, for me to believe that they favored the flint when they
could get the advanced technology. Hence, the Hawken brothers mainstay of
converting flints to caps. On my wall I have two original guns, one built as
a flinter in Mass in 1836, converted to cap, and one built in about 1750 as
a flint, used in the revolutionary war and later converted to cap. This was
a common practice during the fur trade, as far as I can tell.
I know that it is fun to shoot flinters - that is what I shoot also. And
certainly, they were there in the fur trade. But it is my belief that as
soon as a trapper could get the more reliable percussion lock he did so.
Bill C

- -----Original Message-----
From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
To: Mtnman Forum (E-mail) <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 3:51 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion


>In the book Edward Warren, Stewart Drummond notes that the mountain men he
>travelled with in 1833 and 1837 were mostly armed with "miserable shot-out
>flintlock rifles". He was quite partial to his fancy English 62 caliber Joe
>Manton percussion rifle. He asserted (in the hands of his favorite expert
>hunter) that it took more game with less lead than the flinters. So I think
>it is accepted that most veteran mountain men were hanging onto their
trusty
>old flint rifles, whereas the more progressive or wealthy were adopting
>percussion by the end of the period. The onset of the cap-and-ball revolver
>no doubt accelerated the change to percussion. Speaking personally I rather
>enjoy shooting flint, and while there are a few tricks to keeping one
going,
>I have seen plenty of misfires with cap as well. Lewis Garrard in his 1846
>account "Yah To Wah" refers to snapping on a "new waterproof cap" during
>times of danger, which implies that this improvement was still worth
>mentioning in the 1840's (and that exposed caps might be expected to go
>stale!). We should also keep in mind that the supply lines to the frontier
>improved greatly during the 1840's.
>Pat Quilter
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:27:42 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: The Crossing (fwd from Civil War listserv)

I thought my fur trade friends would be interested in what one of the Civil
War folks thought.  This is a long one.
HBC


>Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:43:34 EST
>From: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: The Crossing (TV movie)
>
>Hello all,
>
>I really enjoyed the film quite a bit - in fact I watched concurrent
>preformances!
>
>I liked Jeff Daniels' portrayal of Washington (probably America's most
>underrated general!) - and from what I have read of what he was going through
>at the time, his almost stoic public appearance and the contrast of his more
>open side with intimate friends was quite on target.  He could also swear up
>a storm if need be - and had a bit of a dry humor streak - as witnessed with
>his jab at Gen. Henry Knox (whom Ft. Know in Kentucky is named after).  Good
>job at portraying an incredibly complex man whose iron will alone often kept
>the dream of independence alive when Congress (cretins back then as today),
>fellow commanders, desertions, lack of popular support (about 1/3 of the
>colonists tops!!) and loads of other things would have crippled or destroyed
>a lesser man.
>
>As for the accents - that of Gen. Horatio Gates was good as he was British
>born and had served some years as an officer in the British Army - thus would
>have been upper middle to upper class.  He was a real pain to Washington (who
>was a pain back) and deemed himself the ONLY American officer worthy of army
>command based on his experience.  While he could be a pompous ass - he did
>win the big victory at Saratoga (although it can be argued that Benedict
>Arnold won it by disobeying his house arrest and riding to the sound of the
>guns) and did not do that badly as an army commander - at least until Camden
>in South Carolina!!.
>
>The German accents I will leave to better qualified people.  The uniforms
>seemed accurate though.  As an aside for the Hessians - not all Germans who
>came over were Hessians.  Many, if not most, were Brunswickers - but the
>colonists called them all "Hessians".  Not all the German troops were
>mercenaries either.  The Brunswickers were not - but Braunschweig (Brunswick)
>was reimbursed for costs of the soldiers by Britain - as one of the Brunswick
>heirarchy was married to King George III's sister.  This was a practice that
>Britain also used in the Napoleonic Wars.  When you don't have enough
>manpower hire them!!!
>
>As for their alleged military prowess as explained to Washington in the film
>- - while they were certainly well drilled and well disciplined troops and
>were
>indeed feared by the as yet untrained Continental Army (and even more so my
>the often terrible militias), they were not the Prussians of contemporary
>Frederick The Great.  THAT army was the finest in Europe period!  Why
>Frederick did not get involved on Britain's side is beyond me - and he did
>disuade Catherine The Great of Russia not to get involved by sending troops
>to America to fight for Britain.  European monarchies viewed the American
>revolution with quite the fear of a spread to Europe should it succeed.  In
>fact that feeling carried over well into the Napoleonic Wars even after
>Napoleon had crowned himself emperor as enough of the French Republic was
>still in place.  France was not even a sure bet to intervene on the American
>side for quite some time - and they did so to mess more with Britain than to
>help a republican government form.  They paid the price for the republican
>government in their own revolution some years later (from a monarchist's
>perspective anyway).
>
>The film did pretty well in explaining the importance of Trenton to the
>colonial cause.  In fact - it may well be the most important event of the war
>in that had Washington lost his army would have simply dissolved, Congress
>would have lost confidence in him (as they were getting hammered by his foes
>like Gen. Charles Lee and Gates (among others) and he would have been
>replaced and the Revolution probably would have collapsed right there.
>
>In that respect, Washington's raid on Trenton (and the subsequent raids on
>Princeton) was probably the most important battle ever fought by American
>troops.  If he had lost, nothing that came after would have happened plain
>and simple.  A VERY underappreciated campaign.
>
>As for reading material historian Robert Ketchum has a book called "The
>Winter Soldiers: The Battles For Trenton And Princeton" which I am sure the
>supreme Ed O'Dwyer can obtain for you (along with his excellent book on
>Saratoga and Bunker Hill).  I have not read the Trenton book but his Saratoga
>book was outstanding!!!
>
>Finally - as I am sure you ALL want to know - the flags depicted were
>accurate!!!   Although I really wanted to see the Hessian colors (quite
>beautiful!!)
>
>Greg Biggs
>

****************************************
Henry B. Crawford    Box 43191
Curator of History    Museum of Texas Tech University
[e-mail]    Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
806/742-2442     FAX [phone]
              Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because It's There  ******



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:10:00 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion

It seems that opinions very! It does seem to be a hard  ?  to answer
from what I've read in books (thats why I asked!) But I think Im
inclined to agree w/ Mr. Cunningham! If I'm
not mistaken the Percussion cap was invented
in 1822, and it seems to me that ten years later (give or take) most
folks would have switched if possible!?! Any other opinions?
                                                  M.Wolfe

http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin

The road to progress is the path of fools!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:36:06 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion

There was nothing in the percussion line being "mass" marketed, especially
in the states, until at least 1826. The first percussion caps marketed were
in paper rolls, much like a kid shoots in a cap gun today. You can see a
great example at the little gun museum at the Chattanooga battlefield (Fort
Ogilvie), TN.
- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion


It seems that opinions very! It does seem to be a hard  ?  to answer
from what I've read in books (thats why I asked!) But I think Im
inclined to agree w/ Mr. Cunningham! If I'm
not mistaken the Percussion cap was invented
in 1822, and it seems to me that ten years later (give or take) most
folks would have switched if possible!?! Any other opinions?
                                                  M.Wolfe

http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin

The road to progress is the path of fools!!!


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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:36:31 -0800
From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion

   Bill C and I are not really at odds in our impressions. I would agree
that percussion was rapidly taking over in the 1830's, but there were some
holdouts, therefore either would be "correct".
   I resisted reading Edward Warren until recently because it was "only a
novel". However, Stewart makes it clear in his prologue that his intent was
to document as much of the color and detail of his travelling observations
as possible in an accessible form. The "storyline" is fairly ludicrous, but
the incidents he reports have often been corroborated, and he gives them
with more detail than you get in most of the journals. I read his remarks
about the trapper's guns through the eyes of a high-class nobleman, somewhat
disdainful of the backwards ways of the scroungy Americans. He conveyed the
impression that the flintlock users were the older more hide-bound trappers,
and his remark was offered as if he were answering some contention which
occured around the campfires. In any case, he noted their guns, so I offered
this as an eyewitness account that there were still some flint users at the
end of the period.
   I would wager that new or rebuilt rifles coming into the mountains from
the1830's on were percussion, while those who were still using older
worn-out guns for whatever reason (sentiment, trust, poverty) were usually
flint. The dividing line may have been whether or not you travelled to a
major center of gun building (St Louis). I agree with Bill that there was a
thriving business converting flint to percussion -- the museums are full of
such examples. Therefore, it appears most users were voting with their
wallets as soon as percussion was a stable technology. The transition was
clearly under way in the 1830's and presumably complete by the 1840's.
However, 10-20 years is none too long to replace a major technology -- guns
at this time were comparable to automobiles now, being a central piece of
"high technology" which people depended on. Even in this age of rapid
development, it takes over 20 years for a technology like fuel injection to
replace carburettors. So just because something was invented in 1822 doesn't
mean everyone had it only ten years later.
Respectfully submitted
Patrick Quilter.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 14:47:32 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Bill Cunningham)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion

Absolutely! I agree with you entirely here, Pat. In fact, my first flinter I
got in 1945 or 46 when my dad reached up over the windows in the front room
of the old farm and told me that when I'd got a deer with it he'd consider
getting me the 38-40 I kept harping about. By the time I learned to shoot it
and got a deer with it I didn't want the 38-40. Flintlock was my game! I
still shoot them (though traditional bows seem to be more my speed today) in
preference to all others.. I'm sure there were mountain men who felt the
same way.
Bill
- -----Original Message-----
From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
To: Mtnman Forum (E-mail) <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 10:33 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion


>   Bill C and I are not really at odds in our impressions. I would agree
>that percussion was rapidly taking over in the 1830's, but there were some
>holdouts, therefore either would be "correct".
>   I resisted reading Edward Warren until recently because it was "only a
>novel". However, Stewart makes it clear in his prologue that his intent was
>to document as much of the color and detail of his travelling observations
>as possible in an accessible form. The "storyline" is fairly ludicrous, but
>the incidents he reports have often been corroborated, and he gives them
>with more detail than you get in most of the journals. I read his remarks
>about the trapper's guns through the eyes of a high-class nobleman,
somewhat
>disdainful of the backwards ways of the scroungy Americans. He conveyed the
>impression that the flintlock users were the older more hide-bound
trappers,
>and his remark was offered as if he were answering some contention which
>occured around the campfires. In any case, he noted their guns, so I
offered
>this as an eyewitness account that there were still some flint users at the
>end of the period.
>   I would wager that new or rebuilt rifles coming into the mountains from
>the1830's on were percussion, while those who were still using older
>worn-out guns for whatever reason (sentiment, trust, poverty) were usually
>flint. The dividing line may have been whether or not you travelled to a
>major center of gun building (St Louis). I agree with Bill that there was a
>thriving business converting flint to percussion -- the museums are full of
>such examples. Therefore, it appears most users were voting with their
>wallets as soon as percussion was a stable technology. The transition was
>clearly under way in the 1830's and presumably complete by the 1840's.
>However, 10-20 years is none too long to replace a major technology -- guns
>at this time were comparable to automobiles now, being a central piece of
>"high technology" which people depended on. Even in this age of rapid
>development, it takes over 20 years for a technology like fuel injection to
>replace carburettors. So just because something was invented in 1822
doesn't
>mean everyone had it only ten years later.
>Respectfully submitted
>Patrick Quilter.
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:13:34 -0800
From: JW Stephens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion

Let see. In '45 I was ... um ... -10. (Hee hee he).

(Good points about caps vs. flints although I think that most in mtns
got not new guns but only new locks. Should be relevant info in bills of
lading to the mtns tho suppliers seem quite diverse by this period.)

B'st'rd

Bill Cunningham wrote:
>
> Absolutely! I agree with you entirely here, Pat. In fact, my first flinter I
> got in 1945 or 46 when my dad reached up over the windows in the front room
> of the old farm and told me that when I'd got a deer with it he'd consider
> getting me the 38-40 I kept harping about.

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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:46:12 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion

Good point Mr.Quilter!
                                  Humbly Recieved,
                                    Michael Wolfe

http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin

The road to progress is the path of fools!!!


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 03:07:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia

Hallo the Camp....

A while back we were discussing the presence of birchbark canoes on the
waters of the west slope.....

While reading up on some events of 1813 and 1814, I found the
following quotes in "The Savage Country" (Walter O'Meara, 1960)....

The first, attributed to Gabriel Franchere, an Astorian clerk, Nov 1813...

"Messrs. Alexander Stuart and Alexander Henry, both partners of the
N.W. Company, arrived at the factory in a couple of bark canoes manned by
sixteen voyageurs...."

The second... supposedly from Alexander Henry the Younger's journal,
(early 1814?) regarding a rather unproductive punitive expedition
to reclaim goods stolen by some inland Indians....

"At noon we embarked in four birch-rind canoes and two large wooden
canoes...."

Location was Fort George (Old Fort Astoria), near the mouth of the
Columbia.

Will attempt to find the actual entries in Henry's journal when I get a
chance....

Your Most Obedient Servant...

Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
http://www.geocities.com/~lnewbill





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