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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:14:43 EST
From: Huss931@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question
Dear Glenn,
Thanks for the continuing discussion of mountain man traits.
You are correct about legal suits in St. Louis. Robert Campbell (of
Sublette and Campbell and the Rocky Mountain Fur Co.) did participate in many
suits. However, most of his suits dealt with those who tried to beat him out
of something. He never sued a fellow mountain man.
As for contracts-- yes they did make contracts over major deals like the
sale by Ashley of the Rocky Mountain Fur Co. to other mountain men. At the
same time, Sublette and Campbell risked their lives for years going back and
forth from St. Louis to the Rockies on nothing but a handshake deal to buy
goods from them the next year at the Rendezvous.
As for the over harvesting of the Beaver (and the buffalo!), you again
are correct. There was an over-harvesting of these animals. Again, the real
damage on the buffalo came from hunters for the railroad and, later, "sport"
hunters who shot from the windows and cow-catchers of railroads. The beaver
was over harvested by the mountain men. Not to make excuses for this
activity, in my research I did find Campbell and others very concerned about
this and they often wondered if this was happening. Luckily, silk came in
for hats, and beaver became pretty well passe.
You are also right when you suggest that their actions could be judged
harshly by today's standards. I have found that it is often easy to judge
the past from the comfort and knowledge of the present. When I suggested a
symbiosis, I really meant that the mountain man lived in harmony as possible
in their historic time. No mountain man would have willingly destroyed the
animal life upon which he depended. The information I have seen through
reading over a thousand letters from these men seems to indicate that they
believed that the supply was probably unlimited. This belief in plenty was
pretty pervasive in the U.S. in many fields of endeavor. Southern planters
believed that they could use up the land and then move on. Plains farmers
believed that they could plant over and over and over. Riverboat men denuded
the banks of the Missouri River without giving it a thought. The level of
scientific understanding just was not there in the national knowledge base.
I don't want to mythologize the mountain man-- that is too easy to do. I
just think that the basic values are (or can be) important to us today. We
are really in need of heroes. Men like Jim Bridger, Jed Smith, Robert
Campbell, William Sublette, David Jackson, and maybe even Jim Beckwourth,
were just big enough to serve as persons to look up to and learn from. And,
it is okay to look up to them and at the same time understand that they were
not gods, not giants, but, maybe just a little bigger than life. At least, I
like to think so.
Thanks again for your comments. It is really important to look at all
ideas critically. You do a service to us all-- you make us think. As I
teach American History to college freshmen, I know that sometimes that is a
real trick!
Steve (huss931@aol.com)
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 20:37:13 -0600
From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: exploring New Mexico
Week before last I found myself in the situation of having to travel to
Albuquerque, N.M. where for 4 days I had nothing better to do but keep out
of trouble. First thing I did upon arrival was to rent a SUV and go to a
local bookstore where I purchased a copy of a DeLorme atlas and gazeteer of
New Mexico. That evening in my motel room I got a chance to look it over,
(while enjoying a carryout meal of assorted mexican food with extra green
chiles!), and made a game plan.
The first day I headed north up towards Santa Fe. Spent some time in town
and got a chance to see the old town, in particular the old Spanish
buildings including the palace of the governors. The day I was there some
local native Americans had a winter market where they had many items for
sale in the old square. I purchased a few things from some interesting
looking folks and then headed back south, but I took the long way back to
the east of the Sandia Mountains. Very pretty country.
The next day I headed South down to Las Cruces. I headed into the back
country around Truth or Consequences because there was a large reservoir on
the Rio Grande that I thought would be an interesting place to explore. Took
about a 3 hour walk after I reached a spot which was as far as I could go
with the chevy tahoe. I found some very interesting geological formations
wich had been washed out by a high water period. They were like thousands of
golf ball sized balls stuk together and made out of stone. This was near the
"trinity site" where the first atomic explosion occurred on the White Sands
missile range. Being born and raised in WI this country seems very alien to
me. But very interesting. I once poked around in a pack rats nest trying to
get a closer look and found a shed skin from a snake which must have
measured 6' or so feet long. Important lesson learned: do not poke around in
pack rats nests and watch out for big snakes. Actually I think it was to
cold for them to be active, but not being familiar with these sort of things
I tried to be better safe that sorry.
The next day I headed West and went to the El Morro national monument. I
think this was the highlight of the trip for me. Hundreds of signatures
carved into a sandstone rock outcropping that was near a reliable source of
water. The oldest dating back to 1609. On the top of the mesa there was a
partially excavated Zuni puelbo that had an estimated 875 rooms. The vista
when standing on top of the highest point near the pueblo was spectacular. I
must have stood there for 30 minutes surveying the surrounding lanscape.
Funny thing was I swear I had been there before.
The final day I hit all of the local used bookstores in Albuquerque and I
found two notable items. The first was the origanal report written by
Jackson W. Moore entitled The Archeology of Bent's Old Fort. This is the
original typed report with all of the original photos taped in of the
archeological investigations that were done in 1967. This information was
later published into a book entitled The Archeology of Bent's Old Fort. It
has quite a bit of info that is not contained in the book and the assortment
of photos of items that had been excavated are very interesting. The other
item was a book entitled Cities of Gold by a fella named Douglas Preston. It
chronicles his journey on horseback to retrace the trail taken by Coronado
and his army across 1000 miles of desert and mountains. I am 3 days into it
and have to say it is a great book. Anyone interested in the history of this
region or adventure in general would love this book.
All in all it was an interesting diversion from my present situation which
requires me to work out of doors every day, and the temperature has been
quite cold lately. It was -10 this morning and calm, but I swear as I get
older -10 gets to feel colder and colder.
Happy holidays to everyone!
northwoods
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 19:01:07 -0800
From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Christmas Greetings
As I prepare to leave the office for a holiday break, I am minded of the old
quotation about returning to the prairie, the streams, the woods, the game,
and the company of good honest men and women. May all of you who have
gathered around this phosphorous fire enjoy a great Christmas and a
prosperous New Year.
Pat Quilter.
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Date: 23 Dec 1999 19:15:39 -0800
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Recipe Request
Here's what we have used for years, original recipe was written in 1830's, passed down before then and later recorded, modified for modern process in the 1930's.
(5) oz. of chipped beef, (1) 6 1/2 oz. of roasted peanuts, (1) cup of seedless raisins, (1) 8 oz. bar of beef suet, make a quick trail lunch / high energy.
Dry beef on a cookie sheet for 20 minutes @ 140 degree
oven, chop nuts and raisins up into small pieces, melt suet in a large skillet - low heat. Combine dry ingredients in a mixing bowl (beef cut in 1/4ö shreds), add melted suet - mix thoroughly. Spread mixture in half inch layer in shallow pan, refrigerate until the layer is hard and then slice into squares.
Wrapped in foil, bars stay clean and fresh, will keep for a year in freezer.
This was rewritten in the 1930Æs for use in a hunting camp in Pennsylvania, the original 1840Æs recipe has been lost in the passage of time.
L.N.Conner,Jr.,Milroy,Pa.,1937
__________________________________________
Later,
Buck Conner
_________________________________
Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html
Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
_________________________________
Aux Ailments de Pays!
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
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Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 08:27:44 -0500
From: "Addison Miller" <ad.miller@mindspring.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: HAPPY HOLIDAYS
From our home to yours, regardless of your religous beliefs, Mouse and I
want to wish all of you, the HAPPIEST OF HOLIDAYS, and a safe and wonderful
New Year. Tomorrow morning, may you all find your stockings, hung so
carefully by the fire, be filled with all of the BP possibles you ever
wanted :) (Notice I did not say NEED here... *grins* )
Addison and Vicki Miller
aka SeanBear and Lil Mouse
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Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 07:54:14 -0700
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: exploring New Mexico
It's always a nice thing to hear when someone enjoys a New Mexico experience --
I grew up in the southeastern part of the state (Hobbs) and even though I choose
to stay in Colorado, I still love discovering interesting NM spots. The
description of your journey took me back to some nice memories of my own. And,
come February, I'll be in Las Vegas, Taos and Santa Fe with a group of nice
folks. Can't wait!!!
Denise
northwoods wrote:
> Week before last I found myself in the situation of having to travel to
> Albuquerque, N.M. where for 4 days I had nothing better to do but keep out
> of trouble. First thing I did upon arrival was to rent a SUV and go to a
> local bookstore where I purchased a copy of a DeLorme atlas and gazeteer of
> New Mexico. That evening in my motel room I got a chance to look it over,
> (while enjoying a carryout meal of assorted mexican food with extra green
> chiles!), and made a game plan.
> The first day I headed north up towards Santa Fe. Spent some time in town
> and got a chance to see the old town, in particular the old Spanish
> buildings including the palace of the governors. The day I was there some
> local native Americans had a winter market where they had many items for
> sale in the old square. I purchased a few things from some interesting
> looking folks and then headed back south, but I took the long way back to
> the east of the Sandia Mountains. Very pretty country.
> The next day I headed South down to Las Cruces. I headed into the back
> country around Truth or Consequences because there was a large reservoir on
> the Rio Grande that I thought would be an interesting place to explore. Took
> about a 3 hour walk after I reached a spot which was as far as I could go
> with the chevy tahoe. I found some very interesting geological formations
> wich had been washed out by a high water period. They were like thousands of
> golf ball sized balls stuk together and made out of stone. This was near the
> "trinity site" where the first atomic explosion occurred on the White Sands
> missile range. Being born and raised in WI this country seems very alien to
> me. But very interesting. I once poked around in a pack rats nest trying to
> get a closer look and found a shed skin from a snake which must have
> measured 6' or so feet long. Important lesson learned: do not poke around in
> pack rats nests and watch out for big snakes. Actually I think it was to
> cold for them to be active, but not being familiar with these sort of things
> I tried to be better safe that sorry.
> The next day I headed West and went to the El Morro national monument. I
> think this was the highlight of the trip for me. Hundreds of signatures
> carved into a sandstone rock outcropping that was near a reliable source of
> water. The oldest dating back to 1609. On the top of the mesa there was a
> partially excavated Zuni puelbo that had an estimated 875 rooms. The vista
> when standing on top of the highest point near the pueblo was spectacular. I
> must have stood there for 30 minutes surveying the surrounding lanscape.
> Funny thing was I swear I had been there before.
> The final day I hit all of the local used bookstores in Albuquerque and I
> found two notable items. The first was the origanal report written by
> Jackson W. Moore entitled The Archeology of Bent's Old Fort. This is the
> original typed report with all of the original photos taped in of the
> archeological investigations that were done in 1967. This information was
> later published into a book entitled The Archeology of Bent's Old Fort. It
> has quite a bit of info that is not contained in the book and the assortment
> of photos of items that had been excavated are very interesting. The other
> item was a book entitled Cities of Gold by a fella named Douglas Preston. It
> chronicles his journey on horseback to retrace the trail taken by Coronado
> and his army across 1000 miles of desert and mountains. I am 3 days into it
> and have to say it is a great book. Anyone interested in the history of this
> region or adventure in general would love this book.
> All in all it was an interesting diversion from my present situation which
> requires me to work out of doors every day, and the temperature has been
> quite cold lately. It was -10 this morning and calm, but I swear as I get
> older -10 gets to feel colder and colder.
>
> Happy holidays to everyone!
> northwoods
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 17:48:27 GMT
From: "John Dearing" <flintlock1757@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Recipe Request
Lenape Pemmican (makes 1 1/2 lbs)
>
>Combine dry ingredients in a mixing bowl (beef cut in 1/4ö shreds), add
>melted suet - mix thoroughly. Spread mixture in half inch layer in shallow
>pan, refrigerate until the layer is hard and then slice into squares.
>
> Wrapped in foil, bars stay clean and fresh, will keep for a year >in
>freezer.
It's my impression that pemmican was a cold weather survival food, and not
used in the southern regions of this country. It's also my impression that
improperly made pemmican can be really bad stuff to eat, but once in a while
someone will make some good tasting pemmican.
Notice I said these are merely my impressions. I have never made or eaten
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Date: 26 Dec 1999 08:20:46 -0800
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Sheep skins that need help. [OFF TOPIC]
Help needed.
Seems to be a little slow on the hist_list right now, enclosed is part of a letter I received, this young lady has a problem with several sheep hides and needs some suggestions on how to save them.
Any ideas, I contacted the Denver Natural Histroy Museum, but haven't heard back with the Holidays, etc., (these hides have the wool on them), we have covered brain tan to commerical, so someone should have an idea on restoring life to old/new hides that are stiff I would think.
I would appreciate it very much if I could get some information on how to restore some sheepskin pelts that my Sister-In-Law WASHED AND DRIED in her machines!!! They are still in one piece, but the leather is dried out and brittle.
I had heard of a way that the Cree used to restore hides and leather products using fats/or lanolin with cornmeal and rubbing it briskly with a rolling pin....
Hopefully, this method makes sense to you? I do have lots of lanolin as I make my own soaps and I definitely would like to see these skins restored for her, but I would prefer to try to do it myself.
I was thinking that maybe if I could slowly steam some moisture back into the hide until it was more supple, then I could work in the lanolin to help retain some of the moisture after the hide dried.
I have read some of the old pioneering techniques on tanning hides, but there is very little out there other than people trying to sell me their miracle chemicals for a fortune! That is definitely not for me, I do not buy from the internet as I cannot actually see and smell the products offered, and I am tired of these "miracle" products when there are more natural methods that work so much better!
Could you please forward me any information you might have gathered?
