Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC]
Agreed Paul,
Seems there is at least one on every list or in every group !
Thanks Buck for stepping up and handling all the baloney and helping the lady with a process to make it a simple task if possible, she has taken on a serious issue. Your latest UPDATE will be helpfull and as stated we/each one of us covers his/her own costs.
Thanks Buck & Paul.
Turtle.
____________________________
On Sat, 02 October 1999, "Paul Jones" wrote:
>
> Roy, I agree with Buck. Moreover, whether on list or off, I am taken aback
> by the shrill level of your ranting in general and your deliberate
> crude/vulgar insults. Moderator or not, no list should have to deal with
> such nonsense. Civility is something valuable to this list, as it is to
> society in general. Perhaps this nice Lady's offer is coming at a good
> time, for a few of us here in Texas, at the least, as I gather that the
> toxic substances discussed can adversely affect those portions of the brain
> dealing with mature concepts of restraint, common sense and simple civility.
>
> Just my point of view---from a fellow Texan, who never chewed the toothpaste
> tubes or licked the flaking lead based paint off of his crib. Regards,
> Paul
Take care - we leave as friends,
Lee "Turtle" Boyer
Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec.
State College, Pennsylvania
___________________________
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------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 1999 09:32:44 -0700
From: "Concho" <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC]
On Sat, 02 October 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> Agreed Paul,
>
> Seems there is at least one on every list or in every group !
>
> Thanks Buck for stepping up and handling all the baloney and helping the lady with a process to make it a simple task if possible, she has taken on a serious issue. Your latest UPDATE will be helpfull and as stated we/each one of us covers his/her own costs..............
- ------------------------------------------
Thanks Buck and all the others for helping this Lady in providing her service to us on this health issue. Agree that she lets us know the costs, she shouldn't have to eat any of it.
It seems like Buck mentioned before that the smarter we become, the more bad things we have done to ourselves in the past.
Roy may of had some of that toothpaste in the early years, can't suck them tubes boys.
"May the spirit be with you"
D.L."Concho" Smith
Livingston, MO.
Historical Coordinator - Missouri
___________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 18:21:29 EDT
From: BarneyPFife@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC]
All right VICTORIA. YOU GO GIRL! I told you there would be people who would
stand up for the common good on this list. And like i said when we talked,
COUNT ME IN ON THE TESTING PROGRAM. I've run many a lead ball, shot at
indoor ranges for years, manufactured ammo, eaten out of untinned vessels,
drunk alcohol from pewter flasks, had hot coffee in pure copper mugs and me
for one would sure like to know what the state of my state is. Barney
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 18:33:00 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: TUNG OIL ?
This question would be best directed toward John Kramer, but I seem to have
lost his e-mail address. John, what is the history of Tung Oil ? Also,
what would be the most period correct finish to put on a Northwest Gun ?
straight grain maple wood ] Did they use a stain on them ?
Pendleton
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:23:48 -0700
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC]
Frankly,Mr. Parker, I think you way off base and way out of line !!
John Funk
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Parker <rparker7@ix.netcom.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC]
Well, I hope somebody sees this before it makes it to the list and
kills it. This was my standard rant and reply, which usually gets
edited when I calm down some 12-24 hours later, and often times never
posted. Hit the wrong key this time, and posted it to the list.
Can't get it back. If Dean doesn't find this in time, the rest of you
will be subjected to it.
FWIW, no major apologies. Just said what I was thinking, but would
have rephrased the 4-letter word parts. Probably would have rephrased
other parts so as not to be so obnoxious. Anyway, unless Dean kills
this, comments welcome via email, but understand that email becomes my
property, and subject to reposting. If you have a problem with that,
don't send email.
Thanks, Texan, for your efforts. Hang your shingle in our lodge any
time you want.
Roy
I've substituted XXXX for the person who last posted on this thread.
Not all of the comments are necessarily his/hers, and I didn't want to
blame anyone who might have a bit of innocence. However, if you're
one of the ones who subscribe to the following idiotic theory, let us
pray you have no children so the gene pool will die off with you.
Please God, grant us small miracles, as we have enough fuckheads
already.
OK, I have lost track of some of this thread, but I THINK XXXX
generated the note that generated my reply. XXXX, if I'm wrong, and
you're not the writer, I humbly apologize for the following post. If
you are the writer, I don't apologize in the slightest, as only an
idiot or an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand could write drivel
such as you did, and the ostrich could probably spell better.
My comments begin....
Speaking only for myself, I think safety items/issues such as the
current discussion about copper cooking utensils (not just pots) is of
sufficient importance that it should NOT be excluded from the main
list.
In fact, it should be a very high priority on this list. I find it
offensive that XXXX even suggest taking it off the discussion list
because it is not TPPC "Totally Period Politically Correct" Living
History. Maybe XXXX doesn't want to know about ways of poisoning
himself in pre-1840 style, but others of us have more of a life to
live. Even Clinton is not this stupid.
Texan made a great offer to all of us, one many of us might not be
able to afford without this generous offer, and shouldn't have been
handed a backhanded slap, let alone one up front. Texan should be
lifted on our shoulders for trying to help us out. Instead, some
folks on this list are taking cheap shots and saying take this off
line because this topic of potential lead, copper, etc heavy metal
poisoning is 'not traditional'.
Bullshit!
Texan, I'm very proud of you for continuing to post your offer in the
face of one of these TPPC (henceforth known as tipsees) efforts at
censorship. I
Maybe I'm reading what XXXX wrote wrong, but I gather that XXXX
considers anything non-period, regardless of whether other subscribers
of this list might find it important or not, to be an 'off-topic'
post.
Frankly, I consider potential health warnings a lot more important
than the proper spur to wear if you are interpreting a Texican from
the 1840's, or the proper technique for turning deer brains into
proper leather clothing (been there, done that, and it is a rather
interesting topic).
And I can't actually consider members of this list major brain troves
when I offer them a free copy of the complete ledgers of cost of goods
in New Orleans in 1836 and exactly two people take me up on it. I
realize not everyone is interested in New Orleans, but wouldn't you
have liked to known the wholesale price of powder back then? How about
lead? Or the price of beaver?
I say we should post full information about various health hazards,
perhaps flag it 'OT' in the header for those who don't want to read it
(make the tipsees (TPPC-Totally Period Politically Correct) happy -
they can keep their heads in the sand), but put the info out there for
those of us who are concerned about better ways to avoid lead and
copper poisoning, anthrax, cancer, et al.
Those who want to be tipsees don't have to read it, and can load up
on lead, copper, jalapenos, cadmium, and any other heavy metal or
other poison they so desire in blissful ignorance. This will be a
hardship on the rest of the group in coming years since we will have
to go to many more funerals. Will probably be worth it as the
Darwinian weeding out of the totally insipid follows.
The rest of us should back off and let the newsgroup/email list do
it's thing, which is to inform subscribers of important stuff. Just
because it is NOT important to me, doesn't mean it is NOT important to
to someone else.
I've been a member of this newslist for quite a few years, back even
when Dean had to hand address some of the email because there was no
solid forum across the net, and that was the only way he could ensure
I got all the emails from the list. AOL was a dream in somebody's eye
at the time, and the internet joke. The purpose then was a living
history forum. It was NOT an AMM forum (separate list for that), but
was dedicated to those interested in learning 'how' things were done
in the old days. Yes, the emphasis was on learning from the Fur Trade
in the Rockies, but skills and lessons from the RW and before were
welcomed.
As a former member of the Brigade of the American Revolution, now
transplanted to the Republic of Texas (Hallaluja!), this was important
to me. Things I had learned about the 1750's were allowed to be
passed on to those who followed a trail 100 years later.
Has this changed? Do we now have self-appointed moderators saying
what can/cannot be posted? Do we have Dean Rudy appointed moderators
doing the same? I ask this in all ignorance? If the rules for the
newsgroup have changed, and I missed them, I want to know. Dean set
the mail list up for us, and by using it, we agree to all restrictions
(or none as the case may be) he sets. But it should be a level
playing field.
I mean, I find references to folks telling about stories of being
drunk, disabled, disgusting on the emaillist, and nobody demanding
they take these threads off line. I see jokes about Texas, and some
of the boys from lesser states demanding that these posts be taken off
line. And then I see Texan's posts, offering medical tests at actual
laboratory cost that might save one of our friends lives, and some
total absolute asshole licking Clinty wannabe joker demands THESE
posts be taken off line as off topic.
Never, in all this time, listening to all the diatribes that have come
across my newsreader in all these years, have I ever read anything I
find so offensive as this series of posts trying to shut Texan up,
Am I overreacting? Perhaps. But I find the posts trying to silence
her so offensive, I cannot keep silent.
A question to the email list. Are you going to permit this to
continue? Are you going to let some folks shout down what you post
just because it is not what they want to hear?
On 30 Sep 1999 18:25:46 -0700, you wrote:
>Victoria,
>
>I will contact Dean myself and ask for his permission for you to list the
general information, then those interested can contact you off_list for
personal needs. This way only those interested in going further will be in
contact with you, saving you sometime with e-mail, etc.
>
>Does this seem fair to those on this list, something to consider and a
lesson our forefathers didn't know about - lead poisioning and other health
problems in reenacting their life styles!!!!
>I'll wait until Sunday to see how those interested feel, we'll try and keep
this to a min. on the list. E-mail me at buck.conner@uswestmail.net and let
me know if we should continue or to drop the subject, the results will be
counted at 12 noon mst and I'll either contact Dean or we'll just drop the
deal, that seems fair to everyone and keeps traffic down on a [OFF TOPIC]
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 07:58:17 -0000
From: "Paul Jones" <pwjones@excelonline.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp).
What is that URL for the Jim Baker Party (again)?
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 06:24:04 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp).
On Sun, 03 October 1999, "Paul Jones" wrote:
>
> What is that URL for the Jim Baker Party (again)?
Paul,
Last time I checked yesterday Bill hadn't loaded the "Edibles of the Rockies" article yet.
http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 08:37:07 -0000
From: "Paul Jones" <pwjones@excelonline.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp).
Thanks Buck, I have book-marked the site.
Do you get your e-mail to the company at a different address? Sent an
inquiry earlier this morning about you telephone number so I could discuss
fishing tackle and related matters of moment.
Pablo
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 07:02:25 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp).
On Sun, 03 October 1999, "Paul Jones" wrote:
>
> Thanks Buck, I have book-marked the site.
>
> Do you get your e-mail to the company at a different address? Sent an
> inquiry earlier this morning about you telephone number so I could discuss
> fishing tackle and related matters of moment.
>
> Pablo
Pablo,
I can be reached at 1-800-267-3688, I'm at work now.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 08:06:28 -0600
From: Bill Klesinger <mtmanbk@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp).
to find the Jim Baker Party go http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html or
http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
bill klesinger
Paul Jones wrote:
> What is that URL for the Jim Baker Party (again)?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 11:08:45 EDT
From: CTOAKES@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horse Stuff
In a message dated 10/1/99 2:32:28 AM EST, lnewbill@uidaho.edu writes:
<< Was the chain a common item? I've never seen a chain strap on spurs
before, only leather. >>
I have five books that show early spurs with chain in stead of leather
straps. One is a set owned by George Washington that had silver chains. But
without a picture of the spurs it is hard to say if they are correct. Never
rust is stamped on many modern spurs so that is no indicator of age.
Your humble servant
C.T. Oakes
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 08:29:10 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horse Stuff
On Sun, 03 October 1999, CTOAKES@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/1/99 2:32:28 AM EST, lnewbill@uidaho.edu writes:
>
> << Was the chain a common item? I've never seen a chain strap on spurs
> before, only leather. >>
> I have five books that show early spurs with chain in stead of leather
> straps. One is a set owned by George Washington that had silver chains. But
> without a picture of the spurs it is hard to say if they are correct. Never
> rust is stamped on many modern spurs so that is no indicator of age.
>
> Your humble servant
>
> C.T. Oakes
C.T. is correct, checked Colo. Historical Museum, Museum of the Fur Trade, Denver Natural History Museum and talked to a friend at the Museum of Man in Canada - all had a few spurs with chains. Several of the people I asked thought they where very common in the Rev War and possibily earier into the F&I War, mostly worn by officers from both side, but more a European item and then popular with the Americans.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 11:53:12 -0400
From: "Laura Glise" <lglise@bellsouth.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Osborne Russell (Lengthy text)
Hello the camp.
I've been awake since 5:00 a.m. PST. It occurred to me, as many things do before the sun comes up, that for many of us this site has become a kind of campfire where we congregate after a hard day's labor, a day of tedious labor, or the want of a kindred spirit.
I don't have anything to add about toxicity, copper pots or the ice man. What I do have to offer is something I conjured in my imagination. If you have read Russell's Journal of a Trapper, you may remember that he went to sea at 16 before he found his way West. Thinking about Russell and what his journal didn't tell us about that time in his life, this is what I imagined his life and motivation to be. It is an excerpt from my book (Across the Seasons) I have just written and hope to be published soon.
It is my desire to stoke the flames of this campfire, where I continually meet friends I never thought would be my privilege to meet, and hope you will read on:
. . . (Osborne Russell) It's amazing how a man's life can be reduced to a few sentences and it all seems so simple. Sixteen isn't such a young age for a man to go out on his own. It's only called running away from home when you go against your Father's wishes. It's one of the paths boys travel to become men. When I told my Father I wanted to go to sea he was thunderstruck. I'm not sure he wanted me to be a farmer, but I don't think he believed I had the gristle on me to take the hardknocks of a sailor's life."
. . . I grew up around water and I longed to go to sea. I haunted the waterfronts listening to the sailors tell of their adventures. Some of them were wounded, limping, missing a leg or an arm, or even blind, but their stories were thrilling about how they fought for their very lives as they battled the merciless sea. I would go to Portland and watch the beautiful ships glide in; they seemed to be flying into the harbor like great-winged birds."
. . . One day, unbeknownst to my family, I tied all my clothes in a bundle, kissed my Mother goodbye, and struck out to find a ship that would hire me. My heart swelled the first time we set out to sea, but it wasn't many more trips before I learned why my Father had wanted to spare me a seafarer's life. There were times we had nothing much to eat or drink. We had birds, a few shellfish, and a precious few sodden biscuits, no other bread stuffs, but to us they were dainties. Often the seas boiled with violent storms, we had to tie ourselves with ropes to keep from being swept overboard into the mouth of the sea. I tell you here in the mountains, I've been shot at by Indians, near starved, and near froze to death, but I've never been as lonely as when I'd awaken in the early morning and see the vast emptiness of an iron-grey sea. There were times the horizon was indistinguishable and it appeared we were sailing off into nothingness. While I worked during the day, or sto!
od watch at night, I thought about the beautiful countryside of Maine. I reconstructed, in great detail, every hill and field where I had played as a boy. It was on one of those lonely watches I decided there were many fields I had never entered, rivers with rapids and shallows I had not forded, and birds and animals I wanted to hold in the sights of my rifle. Stranded at sea I began to hear tales of the great West and of the Shining Mountains that rose so high they disappeared into the sky. I heard stories of the great rivers that had become roads to carry extraordinary men like Lewis and Clark to the far side of our country, and to another great ocean."
. . . One night, after a particularly bleak and troublesome voyage, I heard a siren's song and jumped ship in New York with the rest of the crew. I eventually wound up in Minnesota and Wisconsin, trapping for three years in the service of the Northwest Fur Trapping and Trading Company, but I guess you know all about that."
Respectfully submitted, because a goodly part of my research was lurking on this list,
