Tin is nearly as malleable as lead. I think the tubes were nothing more =
than
thin sheet. Ever hear the term "tin foil"? Until aluminum processing be=
came
more cost efficient it was tin.
Yes, tinning can be dangerous. A little less hazardous than making swan =
shot
in the kitchen, Let me tell you about dropping a 3lb coffee can of molte=
n
beeswax in an apartment I used to rent. Lost a 25lb bag of #7 shot in th=
e
shag
carpet in the same place. That was a plenty big enough mess. Simple
solution, move out.
Sloshing the tin around can work, most old descriptions call for swabbing=
it
around with oakum. The metal was often prepared with an acid wash like
nitric;
and rosin is mentioned in some receipts as flux. I have also read of usi=
ng
fresh garlic to etch the metal, I have found it helps when gluing non-fer=
rous
metal to wood. A few months back there were several potential sources
mentioned & I think someone said they had tin available.
Speaking of ancient dangerous practices reminds me of my favorite. In a
recipe
from the 1820's I encountered a description of the manufacture of Chinese
Sheet
Lead.
Seems this one fellow seats himself with legs spread around a large flat
rock.=20
He holds a second large flat rock above the surface. A second man dips a
ladle
of molten lead and dumps it on the flat rock on which the first man
immediately
drops the flat rock on the one between his legs. Ouch!
I have been researching a process for cold tinning off and on for several
years. I first encountered some old mention of Gypsies offering cold
tinning.=20
After searching and trying some things that didn't work I came to believe=
that
it was probably a solution of mercury that was being swabbed on. A recen=
t
encounter with an old reference has caused me to reconsider and I am back=
to
looking for what I again think was done.
One thing that can presently be done is to acquire some of the cold silve=
ring
liquid sold for electrical connections and re-silvering old plate pieces.=
It
can be used as readily on brass and copper. A layer of silver will prote=
ct as
well as one of tin. Stay upwind while applying wear real rubber gloves.
Pots and pans of all sort long pre-date the fur trade as prime trade good=
s.=20
The advantage to tinning brass and copper has been long known. I suspect=
much
was not tinned as it would be a little cheaper to manufacture. I know a=
n
untinned brass bucket of water gets real skanky in about 24 hours.
I think pewter was popular because it showed the appearance of wealth. S=
ilver
was preferred and the most desirable. Pewter was next best and much more
affordable. Many patterns were duplicated in both metals. Fine china sh=
owed
another level of opulence, everyone else had tinned iron, sheet & cast ir=
on,
brass, copper, wood ware or local pottery. What they could afford. Cert=
ainly
pewter was prized. It was how people used to show success instead of des=
igner
labels.
John...
At 07:27 AM 10/3/99 +0000, you wrote:
>John,
>
>Darn, you ruined a good theory as to certain behavior with hard facts.
>
>How did they make the tin so flexible?=A0=A0 The fact that it was so thi=
n, or
>was there some other factor in the process?=A0 I have a very vague memor=
y of
>some craft project in elementary school using strips cut from the tubes.
>
>I have another question as to the tinning process used on copper.=A0 If =
this
>issue has been addressed already on the list, perhaps someone would be s=
o
>kind as to visit with me directly.=A0 Just how do you tin a copper pot?
>First, who would sell the proper tin (compound??)?=A0 I assume you need =
to
>heat up the pot in question, and pour melted tin into it, taking care to
>"swish" it around to get an even coat.=A0 If I am on track, I see grave
>potential for physical harm and destruction of a kitchen if there is a s=
lip.
>I wonder is the tin omits any harmful fumes as it melts?=A0 If so, I gue=
ss it
>is an outdoor project even if you disregard the physical threat to the
>kitchen.
>
>Another subject:=A0 Does anyone know how early in the "American" trade--=
that
>includes Canada--brass kettles were being traded to the natives or were
>otherwise available commerically?=A0 Should they be tinned?
>
>Also, I have always been curious as to why pewter was the metal of choic=
e
>for dinner wear in Colonial times.=A0 Surely it wasn't cost, as I have a=
lways
>assumed that it would have been a bit pricey as it seems to have been a
>treasured family possession.
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 09:09:16 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: TUNG OIL ?
> A coat of varnish would probably be the most correct for most trade guns. Too bad varnish is no longer available, Constantine might still offer one or two.
>
John,
I have a question about varnish per your statement about not being available. Not saying it is or isn't available (that's your business), just a question.
What is "Spar Varnish" used on marine items, water craft, etc., is it a spin-off or what ????
Thanks.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
_____________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 10:39:49 -0600
From: Bill Klesinger <mtmanbk@earthlink.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Bullboats
For those interested in Bull Boats a new article has been added to the
site. Complements of Mike Moore, Jim Baker Party.
http://klesinger.com/jbp/bboats.html
Bill Klesinger
Jim Baker Party, WebMaster
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 11:49:34 -0500
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: TUNG OIL ?
Spar Varnish was a manufacturers term for their exterior weather resistan=
t
varnish. It didn't refer to a specific resin used in the varnish.
Modern spar varnish is often one of the poly type finishes. Alkyd resin =
is
what's usually called varnish today. Natural resin varnishes are to all =
but
not available. There is a significant difference in the materials applic=
ation
and performance.
Sometime back in the archive there are extensive postings about varnishes.
John...
At 09:09 AM 10/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>> A coat of varnish would probably be the most correct for most trade gu=
ns.=A0
Too bad varnish is no longer available, Constantine might still offer one=
or
two.=20
>>=20
>
>John,
>
>I have a question about varnish per your statement about not being avail=
able.
Not saying it is or isn't available (that's your business), just a questi=
on.
>
>What is "Spar Varnish" used on marine items, water craft, etc., is it a
> With the variety observed on originals the options are pretty much open to
> what you want. I think a hand rubbed oil finish wears best in the woods.
> Pigment, dye, fire or acid can be used to darken maple.
Both beeswax and asphaltum are finishes that are often overlooked. Either
can be applied using turpentine as a carrier/penetrant, and then heat with a
blow dryer or over the stove or fire to get it to penetrate.
Melt either substance carefully over low heat, and carefully add turpentine
to thin.
For the beeswax, paint it on and allow it to dry. Wipe off excess and heat.
Allow to dry again and buff with piece of wool blanket. Repeat as necessary.
When done, bone the wood with a piece of smooth antler to close the pores.
Periodic maintenance only requires rewaxing and polishing with cloth.
The asphaltum mixture should be thinner, almost watery to penetrate. It
comes in large chunks and is very hard, almost like coal. You might be able
to get some from a roofer or someone who seals basements. It should be
applied and allowed to penetrate, absorbing as much as possible. Skip the
polishing and just bone it with the antler when it is dry.
Both are water-proof finishes, whereas a linseed oiled finish is necessarily
not.
Also, I have had good luck using ordinary Kiwi shoepolish. Just apply like
you were polishing your boots and buff. Works especially well on walnut.
You can mix and match different colors to achieve the wood tone you want.
Equal mixtures of boiled linseed, tung, and turpentine also works very well,
and produces a nice satin finish that is in the wood instead of on it.
First coat, sop it on with a gauze pad. After an hour, wipe of excess and
allow to dry 24 hours. Repeat for second coat. Wet sand with 600 grit.
Wipe down with alcohol and allow to dry. Third and fourth coats should be
rubbed in with the fingers and allowed to dry 2 or 3 days depending on
humidity. When done, buff with wool blanket scrap. This finish will really
bring out any character in the wood.
Dave Kanger
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 11:05:41 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:[OFF TOPIC] Possible Health Problems w/Metals In Our Systems.
On Sun, 03 October 1999
MMembers of the Hist_list and several other lists,
I have tallied the responses and it is (62) for continue, and (1) I'm not sure ???
Just talked to Victoria on the phone about this topic, and she will follow this e-mail with her message. If you have a problem or complaint contact me and I'll pass the word on to her, she is very busy and would prefer I would be the sounding board !!
Will repeat one more time:
NEGATIVE PROBLEMS AND COMPLAINTS - CONTACT: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
LET'S KEEP POSITIVE, SHE WILLING TO HELP US AND WILL NEED OUR HELP ALSO. SHE WILL GET INTO WHAT SHE NEEDS FROM US AND A FEW OF HER IDEAS FOR FUTURE MUZZLE LOADERS.
Victoria I have opened the door as requested, it's show time to folks that want to know what they have possibly done to themselves, and what they can do to help themselves in the future.
Thanks everyone.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
_____________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 11:29:30 -0700
From: turtle@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:[OFF TOPIC] Possible Health Problems w/Metals In Our Systems.
NEGATIVE PROBLEMS AND COMPLAINTS - CONTACT: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
Hey Buck,
How did you aquire this department ??????
Take care - we leave as friends,
Lee "Turtle" Boyer
Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec.
State College, Pennsylvania
___________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 11:34:19 -0700
From: turtle@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horse Stuff
C.T. is correct, checked Colo. Historical Museum, Museum of the Fur Trade, Denver Natural History Museum and talked to a friend at the Museum of Man in Canada - all had a few spurs with chains. Several of the people I asked thought they where very common in the Rev War and possibily earier into the F&I War, mostly worn by officers from both side, but more a European item and then popular with the Americans............
>
In research, nothing is "black" or "white" to make your report on, because someone will find that damn "gray" area - that kills you everytime.
Take care - we leave as friends,
Lee "Turtle" Boyer
Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec.
State College, Pennsylvania
___________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 11:39:35 -0700
From: "Concho" <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:[OFF TOPIC] Possible Health Problems w/Metals In Our Systems.
On Sun, 03 October 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> NEGATIVE PROBLEMS AND COMPLAINTS - CONTACT: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
>
> Hey Buck,
> How did you aquire this department ??????
>
> Take care - we leave as friends,
> Lee "Turtle" Boyer
Yea <GGGG>
"May the spirit be with you"
D.L."Concho" Smith
Livingston, MO.
Historical Coordinator - Missouri
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 11:54:39 -0700
From: "Concho" <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: TUNG OIL ?
> On Sun, 03 October 1999, John Kramer wrote:
>
> Trade Guns were made as cheaply as possible. No more time and material was wasted in finishing than absolutely necessary.
>
> I seem to recollect something somewhere a long time ago that suggested they may have only been shipped with a light coat of shellac. It's possible the finishes we now see were added by the owners.
>
John,
Not all of them where cheap guns, some had some pretty nice woods and finishes. Many at the Museum of the Fur Trade granted are of the cheaper variety being mid and western guns, but I have seen some really good trade guns that where early and traded to eastern tribes (may have been more choosey in what the would take in trade).
For example Buck Conner's Dad had several TG's that where know to have been western guns (according to Hanson) and a pair of early pre 1810-1813 eastern trade guns, even that old, wood shrinkage, etc. one can tell they where better quality than their counter parts.
I'll have to read Buck's article again in T&LR and then check his personal page on finishes of trade guns, can't remember how deep he got on his research information about them. If you want to see this information for yourself read at: http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html
"May the spirit be with you"
D.L."Concho" Smith
Livingston, MO.
Historical Coordinator - Missouri
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:05:23 -0500
From: "Texan" <texan@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:[OFF TOPIC] Possible Health Problems w/Metals In Our Systems.
Hi Everybody,
Thanks Buck for making this official announcement and setting
the ground rules.
When I made the offer to do toxic metal screening,
it came straight from my heart. It was after that that I began
to realize what a project I had started! So bear with me
as I put a plan together.
The reason that this issue is so important to me is that
I almost died of heavy metal poisoning-the slow insidious
kind with no APPARENT exposure in the past. I'm still
recovering 15 years after the diagnosis.
The next post from me will be an introductory data sheet on
lead toxicity in our environment. My main objective as a health
consultant is to teach people how to take personal responsibility
for their health. That necessitates disseminating information.
It would be a good idea to keep my posts in a
special file to be referred to again and again. You never know
when I will give a pop quiz!!<G>
I'm working on a health history questionaire. Give me a few
days.
Victoria
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 12:13:28 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:[OFF TOPIC] Possible Health Problems w/Metals In Our Systems.
On Sun, 03 October 1999, "Concho" wrote:
>
> On Sun, 03 October 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> >
> > NEGATIVE PROBLEMS AND COMPLAINTS - CONTACT: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
> >
> > Hey Buck,
> > How did you aquire this department ??????
> >
> > Take care - we leave as friends,
> > Lee "Turtle" Boyer
>
> Yea <GGGG>
>
> "May the spirit be with you"
> D.L."Concho" Smith
________________________________________________
Can't you two "buttheads' read - negative stuff goes to my e-mail [OFF LINE].
To answer your cute question - walking around with my head up my butt.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
_____________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1999 12:22:18 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:[OFF TOPIC] Possible Health Problems w/Metals In Our Systems.
Folks,
Lets limit smart remarks like the last two characters (love them like brothers), but this is serious business, yours and mine.
Please make a file as Victoria has suggested, I call mine "Health Issues", that's up to you. If this information is filed as suggested there's less chance of "deleting" by mistake. Who knows, as time passes we may all want a refresher course and being filed - you will have the information.
Thanks for your time.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
_____________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 15:33:05 -0400
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:[OFF TOPIC] Possible Health Problems w/Metals InOur Systems.
Can I complain about anything I want????
D
turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
> NEGATIVE PROBLEMS AND COMPLAINTS - CONTACT: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:23:22 -0500
From: "northwoods" <northwoods@ez-net.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TUNG OIL ?
Regarding the finish on Northwest guns, here is some info. from the book
"The Northwest Gun" by Charles Hanson:
Charles said that trade guns were actually very cheaply made articles when
compared to contemporary sporting and military pieces but as competition
increased and the indians became more discerning the quality improved
accordingly.
At a meeting of the Governor and committee of the Hudsons Bay Company Dec.
20, 1780 it was ordered,...
That in the future the guns have brown stocks (no white) the barrels
likewise brown with an additional 6 oz. to them, for strength....
Eventually the specifications required that barrels be blued and the stocks
well varnished.
The secretary of the Hudson's Bay Company in London wrote E.& W. Bond
viewers for the company on June 26th, 1861,...
We request those now being ordered may have a stock of neater shape, and
coated with a fine sable brown varnish...
Hanson also says, "Pieces made for sale by the American Fur Company were
always specified to have blued barrels and varnished stocks."
The American Fur Company placed a order with J. J. Henry for Northwest guns
and required "the barrels to be light blue and the stocks to be well
varnished."
The Museum of the Fur Trade also had in its collection a Belgian fusil in
unfired condition which had a stock that was heavily varnished with a dark
finish.
The book also gives an account of a Mr. Hampton Swaine who observed the guns
for sale on the trading post shelves many years ago while living in Canada.
He said the guns had blued barrels, mottled case hardened locks, japanned
iron ramrods, trigger guards with a japan like finish, and heavily
varnished stocks with the varnish covering the butt plate.
I just picked this book up on my recent travels through the western U.S.
and this question gave me an excuse to begin looking through it. It is
really informative as everything else Charles Hanson wrote. I highly
recommend it to anyone interested in these trade guns.
T. Clark
- -----Original Message-----
From: larry pendleton <yrrw@airmail.net>
To: mountain lists <hist_text@xmission.com>; amm lists
<ammlist@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 6:34 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: TUNG OIL ?
>This question would be best directed toward John Kramer, but I seem to have
>lost his e-mail address. John, what is the history of Tung Oil ? Also,
>what would be the most period correct finish to put on a Northwest Gun ?
> straight grain maple wood ] Did they use a stain on them ?
>Pendleton
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 16:25:01 -0700 (MST)
From: delis@aztec.asu.edu (BRUCE S. DE LIS)
Subject: MtMan-List: Trade Blanket
About a week ago I had started a New Muzzle loading Related Message Board, I hav
e now added a Trade Blanket feature to it. I know many of you have Trade Goods f
or sale, this is an invitation to post your Trade Good on the Trade Blanket, as t
his Message Board has been up only 11 days, and we are getting about 1,000 Visits
a Day...
FYI
Penny Pincher
Penny Pincher West of the Mississippi, Muzzleloading & Black Powder Message Forum
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb750171
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:28:22 EDT
From: BarneyPFife@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC]
Dang B'st'rd, I forgot to tell Victoria that I had also ingested lead by
injection <ggggg>
In a message dated 10/3/1999 2:21:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
lray@mindspring.com writes:
> You didn't mention shoots his own self ...
>
> B'st'rd
>
> BarneyPFife@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > All right VICTORIA. YOU GO GIRL! I told you there would be people who
> would
> > stand up for the common good on this list. And like i said when we
talked,
>
> > COUNT ME IN ON THE TESTING PROGRAM. I've run many a lead ball, shot at
> > indoor ranges for years, manufactured ammo, eaten out of untinned
vessels,
> > drunk alcohol from pewter flasks, had hot coffee in pure copper mugs and
> me
> > for one would sure like to know what the state of my state is. Barney
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:41:06 -0700
From: "John C. Funk, Jr." <J2Hearts@norcalis.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: TUNG OIL ?
John K., Buck,et al,
I believe "varnish" and "shellac" can still be had through a wood-working
firm named 'Wade Garrett'. There back east somewhere. I will supply the
address if interested.
John Funk
- ----- Original Message -----
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: TUNG OIL ?
Spar Varnish was a manufacturers term for their exterior weather resistant
varnish. It didn't refer to a specific resin used in the varnish.
Modern spar varnish is often one of the poly type finishes. Alkyd resin is
what's usually called varnish today. Natural resin varnishes are to all but
not available. There is a significant difference in the materials
application
and performance.
Sometime back in the archive there are extensive postings about varnishes.
John...
At 09:09 AM 10/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>> A coat of varnish would probably be the most correct for most trade guns.
Too bad varnish is no longer available, Constantine might still offer one or
two.
>>
>
>John,
>
>I have a question about varnish per your statement about not being
available.
Not saying it is or isn't available (that's your business), just a question.
>
>What is "Spar Varnish" used on marine items, water craft, etc., is it a
