Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous)
Glenn Darilek wrote:
> >That was Sir William's black manservant Porter. . . .
> >Capt. Lahti
>
> I was not referring to, and did not know about the black servant porter. -
> Or maybe I didn't catch the drift of this jab?
Iron Burner,
Thanks for your more scholarly definition. My post was offered in the
spirit such that I should be hurting my tongue where it poked out into
my cheek were I to had bitten down hard. <G> I remain.....
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 1999 12:41:23 -0700
From: turtle@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous)
> On Sat, 25 September 1999, Buck wrote:
> Just got in and started to go through 130 e-mails, saw this one on foods and decided to make a few ............
YOU HAVE NEVER MADE A FEW COMMENTS BUCK.
> > > > Mike Moore wrote:
> > > > Thanks for the reminder. A good camp needs good food,
> > > > and approiate ones ............
- ----------------------------------
> I haven't been able to find this reference Mike, but Robert Rogers mentioned in a journal note that some of his men where using their hawks to turn eggs and bread when cooking.........
- ----------------------------------
I HAVE USED A FT. MEGI AXE FOR YEARS AS A COOKING TURNER AND DOESN'T SEEM TO HURT THE CUTTING EDGE, JOE D. WOULD NOT LIKE THIS USE OF HIS PRODUCT.
- ----------------------------------
> According to Charley Hanson, he believed there where more one pot meals, stews, soups, etc. at small encampments than there ever where the full blown meals .........
- ----------------------------------
HAVE HAD THE SAME DISCUSSION WITH THE MAN, HE GOT US TO USING ONE POT FOR EVERYTHING, COOKING, WASHING, DRINKING, ETC. - MAKES LIFE MUCH EASIER AND LESS EQPTMT TO LOOK AFTER. BUCK YOU HAVE CARRIED THAT "FRENCH" COPPER POT FOR YEARS;BUCK WOULD TELL THE CANOE BOYS THAT YOU ONLY NEED ONE POT TO:
"EAT OUT OF IT" -
"DRINK OUT OF IT" -
"WASH YOURSELF AND YOUR CLOTHES OUT OF IT" -
AND IT WORKS AS I NOW DO THE SAME.
- ----------------------------------
> Bottom line in much of the food research we have found is fast easy to prepare items, with very little extra efforts to make the meal.
- ----------------------------------
AMEND
- ----------------------------------
> most attending a rendezvous was of the working class, whether a trader, camp follower or the trapper. Just plain old sellers and buyers, the big money and fancy foods where with the Dukes, Lords and owners that visited or supplied the rendezvous.
- ----------------------------------
THIS IS SO TRUE, AND SEVERAL ACCOUNTS MAKE MENTION TO THE WASTE OF FOOD DO TO THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE IN PREPARING IT.
- ----------------------------------
> One big thing that was easy to prepare was pumpkin, fruits and nuts culitivated or foraged and traded by the local natives. Look at Mesa Verta and the stone tools used for grinding edibles, they where 500-700 years ..........
- ----------------------------------
USE THE BASIC FOODS AND YOU'LL CUT YOUR WEIGHT TO CARRY, WASTED TIME IN PREPARING AND HAVE MORE TIME TO PARTAKE IN THE EVENTS GOING-ON.
Cereals:
Indian meal (corn meal)
Fruits and Vegetables:
dried fruit
dried peas
Beverages:
tea
coffee
whiskey
Seasonings:
pepper
allspice
salt
Other:
salt pork
slab bacon
maple sugar
Havana Brown sugar
- ----------------------------------
I'm working on Catalog #5 now with much more food information, and documentation for us and Goose Bay Workshops on cooking items found in N. America during ...........
- ----------------------------------
WHEN IS THE NEW CATALOG COMING OUT, KNOW YOUR BUSY WITH SALT LAKE PROBLEM, YOUR WIFE SAID YOU HAVE BEEN DRIVING THE WHEELS OFF THE TRUCK THIS WEEK, 3000 MILES AND STILL ROLLING, RATHER YOU THAN ME BUCK.
Take care - we leave as friends,
Lee "Turtle" Boyer
Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec.
State College, Pennsylvania
___________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 1999 12:51:28 -0700
From: "Concho" <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food
On Fri, 24 September 1999, Dennis Miles wrote:
>
> Ever ate pemmican in high summer?
> D
> > Would have thought pemmican would be acceptable on the food
> > roster for the mountaineer/Rendezvous. If it isn't, why not?
> >
> > Showing my ig'nernce,
> > Victoria Pate
Only when your "plugged up", then it's better than anything from the store to make one regular.
"May the spirit be with you"
D.L."Concho" Smith
Livingston, MO.
Historical Coordinator - Missouri
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 1999 12:52:25 -0700
From: "Concho" <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food
On Fri, 24 September 1999, Dennis Miles wrote:
>
> Ever ate pemmican in high summer?
> D
> > Would have thought pemmican would be acceptable on the food
> > roster for the mountaineer/Rendezvous. If it isn't, why not?
> >
> > Showing my ig'nernce,
> > Victoria Pate
Only when your "plugged up", then it's better than anything from the store to make one regular.
"May the spirit be with you"
D.L."Concho" Smith
Livingston, MO.
Historical Coordinator - Missouri
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 1999 13:09:03 -0700
From: "Concho" <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic --- Storage of Black Powder
> > Gentlemen:
> > So, I need to find someplace else to store the gun powder.
> > I was wondering what you think of this idea: I plan on
> > placing powder in a 5-gallon plastic pickle bucket with
> > lid,then placing it in a hole under the storm cellar-door
> > and burying it in the ground up to the lid.......
Do you remember years ago when Hopkins & Allen offered the plastic powderhorn with blackpowder - that ended in a law suit after a person wearing a wool shirt had his arm taken off when the container blew up, due to static elect.
A friend of many on this list Ron Long of Denver, gun builder, super shot, etc. was working in his shop testing a flintlock lock, he snapped the lock and a spark landed in his shooting box, setting off the oily blackpowder film and in turn lighting a powder flask. The damage was something to be hold for a small container of powder, took the double door off the garage, blacken the ceiling and tore Ron a new one. He was off work for weeks recovering from body, and ear damage, along with healing from the burns.
I store all my powder in a steel box, lined with plywood and locked, have wheels and handle on it for fast removal in case of fire, all according to code with local and state regulations.
Keep blackpowder away from plastic, or anything that will generate static elect., this stuff can really go off without any good reason according to the folks at Conney's Supply, so use care.
"May the spirit be with you"
D.L."Concho" Smith
Livingston, MO.
Historical Coordinator - Missouri
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 1999 13:20:51 -0700
From: "Concho" <concho@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous)
Have to agree with everything you said, hear your a truck driver this week.
Later
Concho.
> On Sat, 25 September 1999, Buck wrote:
>
> Just got in and started to go through 130 e-mails, saw this one on foods and decided to make a few comments on these items, that we have found over the years working with Hanson and the Museum of the Fur Trade.
>
> > > > Mike Moore wrote:
> > > > Glenn,
> > > > Thanks for the reminder. A good camp needs good food,
> > > > and approiate ones specially. But could you give me
> > > > some on input on where you found the pancake turner?
> > > > Not heard of that one.......
>
> I haven't been able to find this reference Mike, but Robert Rogers mentioned in a journal note that some of his men where using their hawks to turn eggs and bread when cooking. He worried that the temper of the steel may be weakened if continued over a period of time.
>
>
> > > > > Glenn Darilek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If we want to strictly reenact a mountaineer
> > > > > rendezvous, we would have food that can be
> > > > > documented as having been at one of the
> > > > > actual rendezvous. We can go one step further in
> > > > > using food that would be appropriate for our
> > > > > particular personna. Of course, we can assume
> > > > > wild game and fish, of any type found.....
>
> According to Charley Hanson, he believed there where more one pot meals, stews, soups, etc. at small encampments than there ever where the full blown meals of the Stuart, Astor and folks that took their own camp followers. Most just ate enough to stop the hunger pains and when on with their daily routine.
>
> > > > > Rice pudding - cooked without eggs and with little
> > > > > sugar by Sarah Smith and others. Ms. Smith also
> > > > > cooked biscuit...........
>
> Found in settlements, trading posts, or wagon trains, but not usually in camps, these items take time and work to prepare, most camps where involved in trade, preparing for the next days work, etc. Bottom line in much of the food research we have found is fast easy to prepare items, with very little extra efforts to make the meal.
>
> > > > >
> > > > > Captain William Drummond Stuart brought: tins of
> > > > > preserved................
>
> The items that Stuart and others of wealth had are mis-leading because of one word -"wealth", most attending a rendezvous was of the working class, whether a trader, camp follower or the trapper. Just plain old sellers and buyers, the big money and fancy foods where with the Dukes, Lords and owners that visited or supplied the rendezvous.
>
> I read one account that a person of wealth had taken many fancy foods on a trip in the northeast, most of the food spoiled because the camp people did not know how to take care of it or prepare the items. Remember these are common camp helpers that are use to "common food types".
>
> > > > > A list of other ingredients we know were at
> > > > > rendezvous are:
>
> This is only a small list of what was available, much, much more was in camp - brought in or traded for from the locals.
> One big thing that was easy to prepare was pumpkin, fruits and nuts culitivated or foraged and traded by the local natives. Look at Mesa Verta and the stone tools used for grinding edibles, they where 500-700 years old before the Europeans came to this New World.
>
> > > > > Cereals:
> > > > > Indian meal (corn? or camas?)
> > > > > hard bread, hard tack
> > > > > meal (corn meal?)
> > > > > flour
> > > > > rice
> > > > >
> > > > > Fruits and Vegetables:
> > > > > dried fruit
> > > > > dried peas
> > > > > raisins
> > > > >
> > > > > Beverages:
> > > > > milk
> > > > > tea
> > > > > cocoa beans
> > > > > coffee
> > > > > wine
> > > > > brandy
> > > > > alcohol
> > > > >
> > > > > Seasonings:
> > > > > ginger (for alcohol)
> > > > > red peppers (for alcohol)
> > > > > pepper
> > > > > allspice
> > > > > tobacco (for alcohol)
> > > > >
> > > > > Other:
> > > > > salt pork
> > > > > bacon
> > > > > cream
> > > > > butter
> > > > > sugar
> > > > > black molasses
> > > > >
> > > > > So you might see that a true, documented rendezvous
> > > > > meal does not have to be primitive. Why not plan > > > > your menu around these real mountain man choices?
>
> A correct meal can be prepared using items that have been around for centuries, what was shown so far is only a drop in the bucket to what was available.
>
> > > > > References:
> > > > > DeVoto, Bernard, Across the Wide Missouri, Boston,
>
> Gowans, Vestal and several others have written of wrong information recorded by DeVoto, maybe his writings or the ones that did the editing !! Don't just use one source as your reference, we try to have at least 3 or more for our catalog. I'm working on Catalog #5 now with much more food information, and documentation for us and Goose Bay Workshops on cooking items found in N. America during the F&I War to the Fur Trade (see many items that are medival type things and lots of pots that are much later than the 1850 period - India copper was real popular in and after the Civil War, very few early items from there. From what we have found that stuff was at the end or close to the end of the slave trade.
>
>
>
>
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
>
> AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
> Aux Ailments de Pays!
> _____________________________
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
"May the spirit be with you"
D.L."Concho" Smith
Livingston, MO.
Historical Coordinator - Missouri
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:49:35 +0000
From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic --- Storage of Black Powder
Concho wrote:
> I store all my powder in a steel box, lined with plywood and locked, have wheels and handle on it for fast removal in case of fire, all according to code with local and state regulations.
List members,
Good suggestion from Concho. Allow me to take it a bit farther. Without
Concho supplying actual specifications, this is basically what he is
describing.
Take any size metal box with a watertight fitting lid, made from the
same gauge of steel as most milatary ammo boxes, or use whatever size
ammo box you can get.
Line this box and it's lid with two layers of exterior grade 3/4"
plywood. Do not use any nails through the layers of wood but rather
fasten with a good grade of water resistant glue. Make all joints such
that each layer of plywood overlaps on the mating surfaces in opposite
directions from the last layer. That way there will be a zig-zag in the
corner joints from the outside to the inside. It is ok to use a metal
fastener through the inner joints but the idea is not to have any metal
fasteners communicate from the outside of the box to the inside. Nails
will conduct the heat of a fire through the wood where-as the wood
itself will withstand fire for quit a long time before the inside of the
box gets hot.
Make the two layers of wood on the underside of the lid fit the sides
the same way when the lid is closed. The inside layer of the lid will
come down and rest on the top of the inside layer of side walls. The
upper layer of the lid will come down and rest on top of the upper layer
of the outside walls of the wood liner. The old zig-zag joint is working
here just like at the glue joints. This lid joint and side joints must
be air tight so do a good job measuring and cutting.
Mount the box on casters if it is at all heavy. Tie a rope to it so you
can grab it and run without being close to the box. Store it in the
garage or in an out building if you can. Near the back door or under the
house if not.
The metal box will protect from direct flame impingement and mechanical
damage. The two layers of wood (1-1/2" total thickness) will insulate
from direct flame for a surprisingly long time. The lack of nails or
screws going through the wood will assure that heat is not transferred
through to the interior.
Paint it red and label it. Keep your primers somewhere else.
As Concho said, stay away from plastic and other materials that can
generate static electricity just to be safe.
This may not be the exact specs of a Class ? magazine but it is close.
As an ex-fire fighter, we knew everyone had some kind of hazardous
materials stored around. We were more concerned with how it was stored
than whether you had 25lbs or 50lbs. If it goes up while we were
fighting the fire we probably would not be able to tell the difference.
If someone can come up with the exact spec.'s on magazines please do.
This is from memory and may be a bit off but should be overkill. I
remain.....
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:51:59 -0400
From: ad.miller@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic --- Storage of Black Powder
When I retired from the U.S.Navy, a few 20mm Ammo Boxes came with me. They
are about 10" wide, 22" long, and 18" high. They seal air and water tight,
and are perfect for storing my powder in. At any given time, I have
probably 8 pounds of 3F and 4F in it. Never had a problem. I also store it
in a shed about 50 yards from the house.
Ad Miller
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:08:48 +0000
From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic --- Storage of Black Powder
ad.miller@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> When I retired from the U.S.Navy, a few 20mm Ammo Boxes came with me. They
> are about 10" wide, 22" long, and 18" high.
List,
Addison's 20 mm ammo boxes make excellent powder mags. With the addition
of the wood liner I described they will only be improved and made more
fire protective. (Didn't say fire proof cause there ain't no such
animal) If you can get some of these large ammo cans and locate them
properly, you will have a ready answer to your powder storage problems.
A caution about asking the "authorities": The watch words of all Fire
Captains are "It's a lot easier to get forgiveness than it is to get
permission". I remain....
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:39:24 -0700
From: "Dennis Mountjoy" <mtjoy@micron.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic --- Storage of Black Powder
Capt. Lahti wrote:
> List members,
>
> Good suggestion from Concho. Allow me to take it a bit farther. Without
> Concho supplying actual specifications, this is basically what he is
> describing.
>
> Take any size metal box with a watertight fitting lid, made from the
> same gauge of steel as most milatary ammo boxes, or use whatever size
> ammo box you can get.
>
> Line this box and it's lid with two layers of exterior grade 3/4"
> plywood. Do not use any nails through the layers of wood but rather
> fasten with a good grade of water resistant glue. Make all joints such
> that each layer of plywood overlaps on the mating surfaces in opposite
> directions from the last layer. That way there will be a zig-zag in the
> corner joints from the outside to the inside. It is ok to use a metal
> fastener through the inner joints but the idea is not to have any metal
> fasteners communicate from the outside of the box to the inside. Nails
> will conduct the heat of a fire through the wood where-as the wood
> itself will withstand fire for quit a long time before the inside of the
> box gets hot.
>
> Make the two layers of wood on the underside of the lid fit the sides
> the same way when the lid is closed. The inside layer of the lid will
> come down and rest on the top of the inside layer of side walls. The
> upper layer of the lid will come down and rest on top of the upper layer
> of the outside walls of the wood liner. The old zig-zag joint is working
> here just like at the glue joints. This lid joint and side joints must
> be air tight so do a good job measuring and cutting.
>
> Mount the box on casters if it is at all heavy. Tie a rope to it so you
> can grab it and run without being close to the box. Store it in the
> garage or in an out building if you can. Near the back door or under the
> house if not.
>
> The metal box will protect from direct flame impingement and mechanical
> damage. The two layers of wood (1-1/2" total thickness) will insulate
> from direct flame for a surprisingly long time. The lack of nails or
> screws going through the wood will assure that heat is not transferred
> through to the interior.
>
> Paint it red and label it. Keep your primers somewhere else.
>
> As Concho said, stay away from plastic and other materials that can
> generate static electricity just to be safe.
>
> This may not be the exact specs of a Class ? magazine but it is close.
> As an ex-fire fighter, we knew everyone had some kind of hazardous
> materials stored around. We were more concerned with how it was stored
> than whether you had 25lbs or 50lbs. If it goes up while we were
> fighting the fire we probably would not be able to tell the difference.
>
> If someone can come up with the exact spec.'s on magazines please do.
> This is from memory and may be a bit off but should be overkill. I
> remain.....
>
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>
>
This exactly matches the design that I was given by the Bomb Squad when I
built a storage magazine for the Sheriff's Office several years ago. I
built in in a 20 mm ammo can and it worked great--just glad I never had to
test it!!
Dennis Mountjoy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:47:53 -0500
From: Jim Colburn <jc60714@navix.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Audubon on beaver trapping
Washtahay-
ran across this while researching some other subjects-figured some on
the list might find it of interest.
"A good trapper used to catch about eighty Beavers in the autumn, sixty
or seventy in the spring, and upwards of three hundred in the summer, in
the mountains; taking occasionally as many as five hundred in one year.
Sixty or seventy Beaver skins are required to make a pack weighing one
hundred pounds; which when sent to a good market, is worth, even now,
from three to four hundred dollars." Audubon and Bachman (1849)
LongWalker c. du B.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:08:38 +0000
From: R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic --- Storage of Black Powder
Dennis Mountjoy wrote:
I
> built in in a 20 mm ammo can and it worked great--just glad I never had to
> test it!!
Dennis,
Thanks for confirming that my memory isn't as bad as my wife thinks it
is getting. <G> I remain....
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:51:55 -0600
From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food
deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) wrote:
>Ever ate pemmican in high summer?
Nope, but I'm pretty sure the voyageurs did. I can imagine it would get
pretty greasy, so just put it in boiling water & make rubaboo.
As for the other points folks have raised, here's a perspective from the
Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821, for what it's worth.
Maple syrup: I haven't seen it documented for my period. However, the
Canadians had maple sugar, which was made at the more easterly fur posts.
It's not too tough to make maple syrup from maple sugar & water, but why
bother? Just sprinkle the sugar. Molasses was present, but rare.
(Astoria/Ft. George c. 1813 is one example that comes to mind.)
Pancakes: My vote would go to bannock/galettes/fritters rather than
pancakes, just because that's what I've seen documented for my time period.
No, I don't know whether the bannocks were deep-fried or baked, but I
suspect the former. Gabriel Franchere made fritters from gull eggs & flour
on his return from Astoria.
Here's a couple of menus from Ft. George (Astoria) after the _Raccoon_
arrived. First, Christmas 1813: "We had an excellent dinner with Nine
Spirits Porter @c. 13 at Table. Bill [of] Fare: Soup, Bouiller [pot roast
of] Salt Beef, Potatoes, Pie, Rice Pudding [possibly made with goat's milk],
C[ustard?] Tart. Cheese Biscuits &c." (Gough, 2:629)
Although the men on the _Raccoon_ are beginning to suffer from scurvy on
Dec. 29, the fort couldn't help them with fresh provisions, since there were
"but little or none for ourselves and what little we get would do but little
good among so many people as she has on board."
Then, New Year's Day 1814: "We could scarcely collect Liquor sufficient in
the Fort out of Cases, Kegs &c. to give the men each one dram; gave some
Rice, Salt Beef, and Swans. This was all our means could afford. As for
ourselves [i.e. the gentlemen], we still had wherewithal to make our great
biscuits, 50 lbs grease, 50 lbs flour--I feel they were meant for the
'gentlemen', except for the grease & flour, which are probably intended as
emergency rations. (Gough, 2:745)
Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
agottfre@telusplanet.net
------------------------------
Date: 26 Sep 1999 07:54:22 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food
> On Sun, 26 September 1999, Angela Gottfred wrote:
> Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821, for what it's worth.
> Maple syrup: I haven't seen it documented for my period. However, the Canadians had maple sugar, which was made at the more easterly fur posts.................
Angela,
In our country, Thomas Jefferson did as you have mentioned with maple sugar, he used it on everything and even used it as a trade item when dealing for new items for his vegetable garden. In the book Jefferson's Garden he makes a trade final with throwing in a few pounds of maple sugar, this was with a head of state from France - trading for a variety of tomatoe that Jefferson didn't have.
We have carried maple sugar for years and as you have said, you can take corn meal (any of the meals works), hot coffee and maple sugar - mix and you have an instant meal that will give you plenty of engery, taste good and stay with you for several hours of hard work, whether canoeing, trekking or cutting wood for camp.
Thanks for the reminder, one becomes so use to some of these items asked, you just think everyone does the same.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
_____________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 26 Sep 1999 08:10:46 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic --- Storage of Black Powder
On Sat, 25 September 1999, "Dennis Mountjoy" wrote:
>
> Capt. Lahti wrote:
>
> > List members,
> >
> > Good suggestion from Concho. Allow me to take it a bit farther. Without
> > Concho supplying actual specifications, this is basically what he is
> > describing.
> >
> > Take any size metal box with a watertight fitting lid, made from the
> > same gauge of steel as most milatary ammo boxes, or use whatever size
> > ammo box you can get.
> >
> > Line this box and it's lid with two layers of exterior grade 3/4"
> > plywood. Do not use any nails through the layers of wood but rather
> > fasten with a good grade of water resistant glue. Make all joints such
> > that each layer of plywood overlaps on the mating surfaces in opposite
> > directions from the last layer. That way there will be a zig-zag in the
> > corner joints from the outside to the inside. It is ok to use a metal
> > fastener through the inner joints but the idea is not to have any metal
> > fasteners communicate from the outside of the box to the inside. Nails
> > will conduct the heat of a fire through the wood where-as the wood
> > itself will withstand fire for quit a long time before the inside of the
> > box gets hot.
> >
> > Make the two layers of wood on the underside of the lid fit the sides
> > the same way when the lid is closed. The inside layer of the lid will
> > come down and rest on the top of the inside layer of side walls. The
> > upper layer of the lid will come down and rest on top of the upper layer
> > of the outside walls of the wood liner. The old zig-zag joint is working
> > here just like at the glue joints. This lid joint and side joints must
> > be air tight so do a good job measuring and cutting.
> >
> > Mount the box on casters if it is at all heavy. Tie a rope to it so you
> > can grab it and run without being close to the box. Store it in the
> > garage or in an out building if you can. Near the back door or under the
> > house if not.
> >
> > The metal box will protect from direct flame impingement and mechanical
> > damage. The two layers of wood (1-1/2" total thickness) will insulate
> > from direct flame for a surprisingly long time. The lack of nails or
> > screws going through the wood will assure that heat is not transferred
> > through to the interior.
> >
> > Paint it red and label it. Keep your primers somewhere else.....................
Roger,
As you and Concho have mentioned, safety is number one with balck powder. Us as non-experienced explosive handlers are many more times more careful than the experts. It must be because they work with explosives all the time that they are or seem careless to our eyes.
I used to live outside Loveland CO on a 300 plus acre farm, the ajoining property buildings where a mile away on those ranches of 800-10,000 acres. You got the picture pretty remote for town living.
A friend (powder explosives expert) is working in the area and ask to store his powder magazine at my place, telling us our blackpowder club could store their powder there too. We usually had a case of 1f, 2f, 3f and 4f on hand (cheaper at that time in quanity, as a member would need powder he would purchase it form the club.
We had a small magazine built like you have shared on the list, my friend Pat shows up with his magazine the size of a large commerical dumpster (like behind your local 7-11). After he unloads it with a back hoe, he tells us it's pretty heavy because all his explosives are inside. When he opens it I was amazed that it was lined with cardboard about a 1/2" thick and thats it, he showed us his federal regulations and that's all that was required - looked pretty shakey to us. That was the longest 3 months we experienced having that bomb sitting there, nice to see it leave.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
_____________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:56:32 -0400
From: "Laura Glise" <lglise@bellsouth.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Idaho Rendezvous/October
9:00 a.m. PST
Before I relocated from Atlanta to Washington this summer, I saw a post regarding a Rendezvous scheduled for October -- somewhere Lewiston, Idaho. In my hasty departure, I didn't write down the specifics. Was it posted to the list by Lee Newbill?
Anyone with knowledge of this event? If so, please reply off list to Wind1838@aol.com. Since a guest at Dry Cottonwood Creek I have pared my camp from the back of a sports utility vehicle to everything being carried under one arm. (I had a good teacher) I'm anxious to see how well I think I am prepared.
Since we are on the topic of food, something jumped out and bit me this
morning. I was watching a pirate movie on TV. They made the statement that
they had to go ashore for wood and water.
This got me to thinking about how the wood would be used to cook aboard a
sailing or cargo ship of the period. There could be some interesting and
unique problems hidden here. The tall ships no doubt had galleys to feed the
crew. What kind of stoves did they use. If they were below deck, where did
the smoke go. I don't ever recall seeing a chimney on a ship.
How about smaller ships such as privateers. There doesn't seem to be enough
space below for a galley. I toured the ship at Jamestown and don't recall
seeing any provision for cooking below the deck. As a matter of fact, you
couldn't even stand upright below deck. A long voyage across the ocean would
take considerable wood to build a fire everyday. Where was the wood stored
and how was it kept dry. Wood takes up a lot of valuable space. Did they
even cook on board these ships, or just eat hardtack and other cold prepared
foods.
Sorry, these questions are just rushing through my mind without any solutions.
Dave Kanger
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:44:54 -0700
From: randybublitz@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: cooking on board
Dave, Just a quick check of Richard Henry Dana's 'Two Years Before The
Mast'...found this;
"The cook, whose title is "Doctor", is the patron of the crew, and those
in his favor can get their wet mittens and stockings dried, or light
their pipes at the galley in the night watch." I suspect that their
was a wood stove, ie metal fire box. I highly recommend this book to get
a feel for life at sea, and a look at colonial California. Hardtack
Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't give
up your Rights
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:32:06 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Audubon on beaver trapping
Jim,
Thanks for the paragragh. It is always interesting to see entries that are
different tha usual. Can you give me more info on the passage? Complete book name,
book printer, date published and page number it is found on?
This sounds like alot of work, but for us that write and collect info- it is
good to have all this.
Thanks,
mike.
Jim Colburn wrote:
> Washtahay-
> ran across this while researching some other subjects-figured some on
> the list might find it of interest.
> "A good trapper used to catch about eighty Beavers in the autumn, sixty
> or seventy in the spring, and upwards of three hundred in the summer, in
> the mountains; taking occasionally as many as five hundred in one year.
> Sixty or seventy Beaver skins are required to make a pack weighing one
> hundred pounds; which when sent to a good market, is worth, even now,
> from three to four hundred dollars." Audubon and Bachman (1849)
>
> LongWalker c. du B.
------------------------------
Date: 26 Sep 1999 10:01:14 -0700
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food
> What kind of stoves did they use. If they were below deck, where did the smoke go. I don't ever recall seeing a chimney on a ship.
>
> How about smaller ships such as privateers. There doesn't seem to be enough space below for a galley. I toured the ship at Jamestown and don't recall seeing any provision for cooking below the deck. As a matter of fact, you couldn't even stand upright below deck. A long voyage across the ocean would take considerable wood to build a fire everyday. Where was the wood stored and how was it kept dry. Wood takes up a lot of valuable space. Did they even cook on board these ships, or just eat hardtack and other cold prepared foods.
_____________________________________
Dave,
That does bring up some thought to hold one would do this, have always read of salted pork, fish and other meats floating in a barrel, fruits of variety where carried, breads, hard tack, etc. - have seen a large cast iron pot with long legs sitting on planks, had a grate on the top (could have been used to cook on), never thought to ask the tour guide what it was used for.
We tried to cook on board (batuea) using a small brazier sitting on water soaked logs, it worked but was more trouble than the effort needed to do the task. We only tried it because the shore was a bogg, hard to find a dry spot to cook on.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado
Aux Ailments de Pays!
_____________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:37:37 -0400
From: Sabella <sabella3@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:moving
- --------------569695DB805429FD8EFD77F4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all;
I am in the process of moving from Florida to Ohio/W.Va in the next few months.
I am to attend a historic preservation school, majoring in historic reproduction and restoration of metalwork and stained glass
... the area that I shall be moving to is specifically...the school is located in St. Clairsville, Ohio [belmont tech college]. The nearest large town, they tell is 15 minutes away, Wheeling W.Va. I am about 2 hrs SW of Pittsburgh.
Can anyone put me in touch with the local buckskinning groups or an events list?
please reply off list to sabella3@earthlink.net
thanks in advance,
Sabella
- --------------569695DB805429FD8EFD77F4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Hi all;
<br>I am in the process of moving from Florida to Ohio/W.Va in the next
few months.
<p>I am to attend a historic preservation school, majoring in historic
reproduction and restoration of metalwork and stained glass
<br>... the area that <i> </i>I shall be moving to is specifically...the
school is located in St. Clairsville, Ohio [belmont tech college].
The nearest large town, they tell is 15 minutes away, Wheeling W.Va.
I am about 2 hrs SW of Pittsburgh.
<p>Can anyone put me in touch with the local buckskinning groups or an
events list?
<p>please reply off list to sabella3@earthlink.net
<p>thanks in advance,
<br>Sabella</html>
- --------------569695DB805429FD8EFD77F4--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:49:11 -0400
From: Sabella <sabella3@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Food
I have read accounts and seen museum replicas of braziers and 'boxes' that held
sand that they used to cook on... maybe the Mary Rose site might help...
http://www.maryrose.org/life/food1.htm
the Mary Rose was a tudor era warship, the site is worth visiting... and the url
gives an accounting of how food was cooked and what was found upon excavation.
hope this helps.
here is an excerpt from the site - if you want to read the entire 'thing' go to
the above url.
The crew's food was cooked in a "Kychen"
in the hold. This structure consisted of four
thousand bricks in the form of a firebox
supporting two large cauldrons. The fire was
fuelled by logs which were stored nearby.
Most of the meat and fish would have been
boiled in these cauldrons to provide a stew,
although a small bronze tripod pot found in
the hearth could have been used to prepare
individual meals for officers. Smaller pots, a
pair of bellows, a hand broom and two ash
boxes were also found in this area.
I have seen braziers on some boats that were from the Roman/Byzantine era, others
were metal boxes with sand to hold charcoal or wood...
Sabella
ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote:
This got me to thinking about how the wood would be used to cook aboard a
> sailing or cargo ship of the period. There could be some interesting and
> unique problems hidden here. The tall ships no doubt had galleys to feed the
> crew. What kind of stoves did they use. If they were below deck, where did
> the smoke go. I don't ever recall seeing a chimney on a ship.
>
> How about smaller ships such as privateers. There doesn't seem to be enough
> space below for a galley. I toured the ship at Jamestown and don't recall
> seeing any provision for cooking below the deck. As a matter of fact, you
> couldn't even stand upright below deck. A long voyage across the ocean would
> take considerable wood to build a fire everyday. Where was the wood stored
> and how was it kept dry. Wood takes up a lot of valuable space. Did they
> even cook on board these ships, or just eat hardtack and other cold prepared
> foods.
>
> Sorry, these questions are just rushing through my mind without any solutions.
>
> Dave Kanger
------------------------------
End of hist_text-digest V1 #377
*******************************
-
To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
"majordomo@xmission.com"
with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
