Subject: Re: MtMan-List: GW's kitchen mess kit - metal tin containers
On page 104 of the coffee table book "The National Museum of American =
History, A Smithsonian Museum" there is a photograph of a field mess =
chest attributed to George Washington, possibly the same kitchen mess =
refered to in the post. It contains tin plates, platters, utensils, and =
a tankard. I have the photo saved as a jpg file which I will send to =
anybody who asks. The image is saved as a closeup, rather than as a =
full photo and will have to be viewed piecemeal. The closeup details =
are very good and may shed some light on the question at hand.
YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff
ps: I did not post the photo to the list because it clogs up Dean's =
computer something fierce.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Buck <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
To: Dean Rudy's hist_list <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 1999 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: GW's kitchen mess kit - metal tin containers
> > > On Sun, 01 August 1999, JON MARINETTI wrote:
> > >=20
> > > "the outside had turned a dark gray color from age" --- wonder if =
it
> > > could have been pewtered [tin-lead alloy] with maybe some silver =
added ?
> > >
> > ------------------------------
> > On Mon, 02 August 1999, "Buck" wrote:
> > Jon,
> >=20
> > That's a good point, I will contact a friend that is still involved =
with the Valley Forge Historical Society and ask him your question. That =
was a fashionable thing in Washington's Day and seeing how the "kitchen =
mess" belonged to him that could be, it's been at least 15 years since I =
looked at the set and can't remember now. I'll get back with an answer =
Jon.
> > Later,
> > Buck Conner=20
> ------------------------------
> Jon,
>=20
> Have received word that the mess kit in question is tin of a high =
quality that has turned dark with age, not pewtered [tin-lead alloy] as =
you had suggested.
>=20
> The gentleman from the society said he had trouble finding the mess =
kit as it is not on display at this time (hoped to make a new setting =
with it included - early in 2000). This is the trouble these days with =
the cost of floor space, many items of interest are packed away (if not =
sold to private collections).
>=20
> Later,
> Buck Conner
>=20
> AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
> http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html=20
> __________________________________
>=20
> The AMM Journal.
> The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
> 3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403 =20
> ATTN: Jon Link =20
> Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for=20
> a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov. =20
> _____________________________________
>=20
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account =
http://www.uswestmail.net
>=20
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:48:45 -0400
From: ad.miller@mindspring.com
Subject: MtMan-List: New tiems on Traders Row
Buck just had me put several items on the TRADERS ROW page.
For those you you interested, address is:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/3216/trader.htm This will take you
right to the page....
Ad Miller
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:00:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: MtMan-List: More on GW
Mount Vernon (Virginia) Historical Association is re-enacting the
Bicentennial of GW's funeral ceremony around Dec.14 this year (is also
supposed to be broadcast on C-SPAN Dec.18). This Old Republic could
sure use him again - along with Nathaniel Greene, Daniel Morgan, Joseph
Plumb Martin, etc.
- -----------------------------------
The American Indian: the only surviving descendents of Ephraim and
Manasseh the sons of Joseph - one of the 12 sons of Jacob [Israel].
They are all the Tribe of Joseph, no matter what Sub-Tribe they may be
called.
- -----------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:35:21 -0600
From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ram rod attachments
The standard ramrod attachment for smoothbore flintlock trade guns in the
1774 to 1821 period was a gun worm made from 'pinning wire'. It's the only
ramrod attachment I've ever seen mentioned in journals or inventory lists.
They were quite common.
According to a an acquaintance who lived in the Northwest Territories for
many years, oral tradition among the Dene (Slavey) says that they would
remove a stuck ball by taking out the barrel and heating it over the fire.
Yikes!
Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
agottfre@telusplanet.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:11:38 -0700
From: "John Hunt" <jhunt1@one.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: estimateing horse weights
Many of you have horses. While going thru a farm catalog, I came across
a picture showing how to estimate the weight of a horse. I`m also aware many
of you can look at the horse and estimate the weight also. The formula is as
follows.
#1. Measure the circumference (heart girth) of the body in inches. The heart
girth is just behind the front legs around at top of the shoulders." by the
picture in book"
#2. Measure the length of the body from the point of the shoulder to point
of the croup. Front of shoulders to end of hips, butt area.
#3. Apply the following formula to calculate the weights of the horse.
Heart girth x heart girth x length divided by 300 + 50 lbs. =
weight.
Doesn`t say if this works on any other animals. Hope this will be of
use to some of you.
John (BIG JOHN) Hunt
Longhunter
Mountainman
southwest Ohio
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:31:42 -0400
From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bear fat
On Tue, 07 Sep 1999, you wrote:
>Hello the List
> Awhile back, someone asked about rendering bear fat.
> I have acquired some and need advice on rendering it.
> off list E-mail no@gpcom.net Thanks FRANK
Simply melt it in a double boiler, then strain it well. Reheat it, and
this time strain it through pure white cotton or a coffee filter. You
may have to repeat the process again, to get what's called "bear oil,"
which is almost clear when cooled.
Fred
------------------------------
Date: 7 Sep 1999 10:19:51 -0700
From: "Buck" <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ram rod attachments
Angela,
>
> The standard ramrod attachment for smoothbore flintlock trade guns in the
> 1774 to 1821 period was a gun worm made from 'pinning
> wire'. It's the only ramrod attachment I've ever seen
> mentioned in journals or inventory lists.
I researched and wrote an article a few years ago on the trade gun and it's history, now found on the AMM Jim Baker Party web site.
In that research I found several entries; on items required by contract with delivery of said guns. Tryon supplied a "cast worm", screw jag (ball puller) and a ramrod with metal end-threaded to fit worm and screw jag, with other end of ramrod to swell out for seating ball. Had measurements for both ends of ramrod, I am now looking for that information.
Agreed most guns of the trade where not well equipped for cleaning, not like a cased gun. Charles E.Hanson, Jr. and myself talked about this several times and the thinking was most items found in old original shooting bags are items that had been aquired over a period of years by its owner. Probably from local blacksmiths, as they seem to have done as much work on the cheaper pieces as the gunsmiths that where far and few in the early years.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
__________________________________
The AMM Journal.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 6 Sep 1999 10:23:24 -0700
From: "Buck" <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Shootin' Contest [OFF TOPIC]
On Mon, 06 September 1999, "Paul Jones" wrote:
> Well, that depends. Is she pleased at the prospect of moving to Ohio, or
> just waiting to poison me?
__________________________________________
I wish you girls would change the SUBJECT line once in a while. I don't know if we're talking shootin or what.
You guys are as bad as an old uncle of mine, passed on to the other side now and he wouldn't mind if I tell this.
Twenty five years ago in NW PA is where he lived in a slab shanty (he had options - but liked living in that place). Heated by a pot belly stove with the out house out back - you got the picture.
Well, I shot a ground hog and it went back down the hole, while digging it out we found some young foxes. We go to get my Uncle Cliff as he's been a trapper all his 80 some years.
Uncle is sitting on chair in front of his shack, bib- cover-alls, you know the picture. We tell him we got foxes, he jumps up runs to the inside and reappears with a hat and tie.
I yell "what the heck are you doing, we going fox huntin'", he looks at me and replies "I thought we where goin' to fox somethin'". We're all thinking game, me animal - him female.
Does this sound close to some of these SUBJECT lines.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
__________________________________
The AMM Journal.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:45:19 -0700
From: Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: missing brothers
Dog,
You old carnivore!!!
Welcome to the virtual-campfire. Still in Wyoming?
Don't take anything you read here too serious.
Rick #815
------------------------------
Date: 7 Sep 1999 12:44:59 -0700
From: turtle@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ram rod attachments
> > The standard ramrod attachment for smoothbore flintlock trade guns in the
> > 1774 to 1821 period was a gun worm made from 'pinning
> > wire'. It's the only ramrod attachment I've ever seen
> > mentioned in journals or inventory lists.
> > Angela
>
> Agreed most guns of the trade where not well equipped for cleaning, not like a cased gun. Charles E.Hanson, Jr. and myself talked about this several times and the thinking was most items found in old original shooting bags are items that had been aquired over a period of years by its owner. Probably from local blacksmiths, as they seem to have done as much work on the cheaper pieces as the gunsmiths that where far and few in the early years.
> Later,
> Buck Conner
I too have talked to Kindig, Hanson and several others that had the background in research on this subject, and I agree as you have stated - "most items found in old original shooting bags are items that had been aquired over a period of years......".
Everyone I've talked to about this for the last 25 plus years, books read and research all come to this statement - gathered "by its owner". This makes sense when you think about it, you would carry what you use, your line of work and location would also come into the picture. Lots to things to think about, not just an answer that fits everyone.
Take care - we leave as friends,
Lee "Turtle" Boyer
Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec.
State College, Pennsylvania
___________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> You guys are as bad as an old uncle of mine, passed on to the other side now and he wouldn't mind if I tell this.
>
> Twenty five years ago in NW PA is where he lived in a slab shanty (he had options - but liked living in that place). Heated by a pot belly stove with the out house out back - you got the picture.
> I yell "what the heck are you doing, we're going fox huntin'", he looks at me and replies "I thought we where goin' to fox somethin'". We're all thinking game, me animal - him female.
> Later,
> Buck Conner
[close to some of these SUBJECT lines]
Close but no cigar ?
Met the Uncle he's talking about, a real trapper and a better character from the hills, had some neat stories and knew his business. Had a coon in a hole dead, couldn't get it to many rocks, Uncle Cliff took a piece of barbed wire - bent wire over on one end a few inches, pushed wire down the hole into the dead coon. Turned it around in the hole a half dozen times and pulled the coon out, not a hair was hurt - neat trick to remember.
Take care - we leave as friends,
Lee "Turtle" Boyer
Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec.
State College, Pennsylvania
___________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
------------------------------
Date: 7 Sep 1999 13:59:36 -0700
From: "Buck" <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: TRADE WEB SITES
Subject: TRADE WEB SITES :
May want to add these to your bookmarks in a folder called [SELL/TRADE].
Have used these sites in the last couple weeks and they work.
